# 2007 racing project



## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

I'm shooting for 500Whp on a stock motor in 2007. my setup is:
87 vw scirocco 16v
2.0 16v motor
Zorning 16v Turbo manifold
T3 60-1 
23.5x8x3 SPEARCO
83lb injectors
2 ABA headgaskets
8v 020 tranny with a quaife with FF 5th gear
tec2 management 
205/55/14 Nitto Drag radials
2.5in downpipe with cut off to 2.25in exhaust
ground control coilovers front: 448lbs springs rear 335lbs 

Any other suggestions?

_Modified by tyrone27 at 5:18 PM 12-30-2006_

_Modified by tyrone27 at 1:03 PM 1-14-2007_

_Modified by tyrone27 at 7:07 PM 1-21-2007_

_Modified by tyrone27 at 8:39 PM 1-24-2007_


_Modified by tyrone27 at 4:47 PM 2-1-2007_


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

A few things: 
65lb inj. will not support 500whp on a 4 cyl. engine try 1000cc inj.
Gt30 is a liitle small for 500whp try gt35R (suggest .82 turbine housing)
DTA has a HORRIBLE user interface I suggest Autronic or keep the TEC2.
Tubular manifold will make the the best topend power. 
(like the custom manifold you showed, not a log style)

-Jeff


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Jefnes3)*

agree... 83 or 96# injectors If your system is going to run batch then get the 96# and deal with a pig rich idle
ehh, 3076 ,82 will do 500+ whp.... and/but a .63 35r will spool all but the same.
DTA, *strongly agree lol. Also make sure to check if the S60 will support low impedance injectors, the P8 Pro does not.


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: 2007 racing project (lugnuts)*

I'm confused about everybodys comment that DTA's user's interface.

What do you mean by user interface?


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

I have to disagree with the masses and go with a .82 GT3082, all things being equal it'll spool up much earlier than a GT35R and still be capable of 600hp


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (killa)*

well S60 doesn't support low impedence injectors only high. but I can source high injectors for the hp. 
I like the DTA S60 interface. its actually just like tec2 and autronic. Plus it can monitor everything on one screen. plus has launch control.
I'm looking into the eip manifold now just waiting for a reply to my e-mails.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

Awesome!!, your really trying to blow that thing up huh?
I would def. suggest larger injectors, Huge clutch, and 3" downpipe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (GTijoejoe)*

i'm running a 4 puck clutch currently. and sourced some #83lb bigger injectors already.


_Modified by tyrone27 at 4:10 AM 12-5-2006_


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## mk1vr6 (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

A stock 16v can handle that kind of hp ???


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (mk1vr6)*

with tuning yea.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

ok well here is the 16v tranny with the quaife. I'm going to get it torn down in January and see what I need to rebuild it. here are the pics:
























Going to race the car in April at the NOPI event so can't do a complete tear down of the car.
here is my Steps:
ok guys here is how my project is going to go Starting January:
Stage 1: Transmission rebuild with Quaife
Stage 2: Coil overs and front and rear
Stage 3: NGK Wideband
Stage 4: #83lb injectors
Stage 5: 7.5/23.0-15 M & H slicks and rims
Stage 6: Exhaust manifold and 3in exhaust straight back
Stage 7: GT3082 turbo
What do you guys think about the 15in Slick size? think they will be ok?


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

I don't really have anything intelligent to add, but I wanted to say :
020? I dunno about those biscuits ...


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*

Have update on AMS manifold they are shipped out rough. u have to drill your own holes in it and they don't off any kind of warranty. they said its a racing application and they don't warranty them. so its going to be a custom tubular manifold then with a brace for extra security. AMS probably makes good manifolds that most likely won't crack but it comes down to the what if and better bang for the buck. if I get one I'll have to send it out to get a external wastegate port added and get it machined for my turbo. so 400 for the manifold and 150? to get it machined= 550 dollar product with no warranty. where as i spend 400-500 for the tubular manifold with at least some type of warranty and if it cracks I'll spend less money getting it repaired then repairing cast iron.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_I don't really have anything intelligent to add, but I wanted to say :
020? I dunno about those biscuits ...











Listen dude.... with Cryo-treated guts and a quaif, that 020 trans is still going to blow quick at 500WHP... I know guys that split the case at less than 400. And that's not abusing the trans, that's just in-gear pulls.
I would VERY STRONGLY consider an O2A swap with an LSD and possibly upgraded axles for that kind of power.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Listen dude.... with Cryo-treated guts and a quaif, that 020 trans is still going to blow quick at 500WHP... I know guys that split the case at less than 400. And that's not abusing the trans, that's just in-gear pulls.
I would VERY STRONGLY consider an O2A swap with an LSD and possibly upgraded axles for that kind of power.

Exactly. I've gone through 10 of them, and I was not making anywhere near that kind of power, and I only boosted in-gear, no clutch drops, no burnouts, no drag launches ...


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*

*I* would run an 02A with a peloquin if on a budget. Running solid motor mounts all around will help you keep from breaking axles.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (killa)*

I agree with the previous 3 posts.
get an 02a with the LSD, and some axles if your going to be running slicks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I wouldn't trust the 020


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (GTijoejoe)*

I have faith in the tranny and in the guy building it. that it can hold a 500whp gear pull. I'm not running 500hp on the street or track. motor can only take 500hp so many times before it says not today. track use mid 12 11sec car i'm happy. if I want to run 500whp at the track and all day i'm going to break down and build a race motor to take that power all day. 
I really wanted to do it on a stock 020 tranny with just a clutch but I got the 020 with a quaife at a very good deal so couldn't pass it up.


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## FLATBLACKMK2 (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

good luck man..................
killa and the others are good sources to listen too.......... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (FLATBLACKMK2)*

I'm taking there advise. they give great advice. Taking Lugnuts advce on the #83injectors, killas advce on the GT3082 turbo, scotts on water/meth injection, carl on the ground control coil overs, GTijoejoe on the 3in exhaust. but also I'm trying to use things and go about different ways of doing things to reach the same goal. Look what I have right now. a zorning manifold with a leak somewhere between the head and turbo flange. it has a leak which looses exhaust gas and **** I have ZERO lag with my t3/t4 50 trim .63 stage 3 turbo. I can't catch traction with my 195/60 14 tires or 205/55 14 drag radials. I have my power low and mid end and it fades away top end.
I looked into the AMS manifold and for what i'll have to do its not worth it without a warranty. everyone that is making power is using a ams manifold. but here is the thing who is ever used a snake manifold or silly_sohc manifold? to me when I look at at those manifolds they look to bee good and migh thave good flow charastics. but no one has ever dynoed or tested them. here is how I think I can benifit from running one. 
since the turbo is spaced out more I'll have less lowend power which will give me more room to catch traction. and the HP isn't there lowend. I can't word it right but I have a good idea of what i'm talking about.
With DTA. i cought a lot of **** by going with DTA over other systems. reason I want DTA is for one Allen is but a e-mail away and he is more tehn happy to help me with it and has no problem adding new firmware and modifying software to improve his product. Second reason Schimmel is but 2 hours from me and he knows his **** when it comes to DTA. IF he every answers his phone. Third reason is dta has launch control which I need to get off the line better. forth dta can use my 60-2 wheel easily. the only con I have about it is that it doesn't support low impedence injectors. which isn't really a problem for me because I can use a Honda resistor box with no problems. 
Pretty much now I'm trying to source the brace people are using to support there manifolds and turbos and looking into slick sizes. 
This is a low budget project. because most of my money is going into my business opening and money for a dyno.


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## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

my suggestion is don't build a motor to topple the 500whp mark if you don't plan on running it at 500whp more than once before turning it down to something more appropriate. You'll just be running a motor that will have **** for power delivery.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*

bump getting injectors.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_I'm taking there advise. they give great advice. 

No your not...I know for a fact Paul has been over this MANY times.That 020 is going to **** gears all over the driveway...If you think its going to hold now,wait until you get to your goal if you ever get there.

_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_
This is a low budget project.

Well then your in the wrong game.


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_I have faith in the tranny and in the guy building it. that it can hold a 500whp gear pull. I'm not running 500hp on the street or track. motor can only take 500hp so many times before it says not today. track use mid 12 11sec car i'm happy. if I want to run 500whp at the track and all day i'm going to break down and build a race motor to take that power all day. 
I really wanted to do it on a stock 020 tranny with just a clutch but I got the 020 with a quaife at a very good deal so couldn't pass it up. 

unless you spend big buxx on aftermarket gears etc... a stock 020 with a quaife and a 4puck will explode(at less than 400whp). trust me.
should you get a beefed up 020 tranny with a quaife and 4puck....youll then start destroying the pressure plates. ok so then you start running a triple strapped pressure plate....kiss the axels goobye...and the pressure plate. 
crap....2006 was endless in the drivtrain dept. but the 020 did hold up....lots of drag runs/dyno pulls...but who knows for how long. 
merry x-mas


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (soch naungayan)*

I still say 500whp on a dyno will not blow a 020 with a quiafe. 500whp drag racing will blow it.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_I still say 500whp on a dyno will not blow a 020 with a quiafe. 500whp drag racing will blow it. 

No that power level will Destroy an 020 no matter what you putt inside it......End of story.....you can replace every part and it will still fail.
And do yourself another favor and get a Snake style manifold for the top end boost it will give you.....The others you are looking at are fire wall smashers...good for little turbo's at best..and the kinetic one uses a Mitsu...turbo it's for there crappy 16v turbo kit..it's a wast of money and your time..unless you think a eclips turbo will get you to 500 hp.....


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Salsa GTI)*

i'm getting a snake. I'm going to do a write up on here or Manual transmission forum about the trannys and why I'm staying with 020.


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## Scrubbs (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

Derrick, you are not listening. The 020 was never "meant" to hold more than 180 hp.(ballpark) I have seen a few trans' crack on the dyno, pushing less, then what you had at your last dyno. If your friend has a xray, and true "magnaflux' capabilities, and can see the hairline cracks that you probably have already, then your wasting your time opening it up. let alone the possibility of trashing the diff in the process. Killa has junked more 020 trans, than most dealerships. (small exaggeration,). Derrick im not being an a ss but you arent listening to what people are telling you. If you make 500 on the dyno, and it holds to gether, more than likely you cracked a shaft or gear in the process. and it will fail at some random redlight when you pul away from it, driveing like a grandma leaving church. Its the nature of the beast. Low budget? you said that how many years ago, How much have you spent to date, your trying to reinvent what others here have already proven. And your using substandard parts, and bacwards engineered setups. there is no reason to do what your doing the hard way, your tec is plenty easy to make the HP, but your turbo and fueling arent. Try making your current setup more reliable. Reliability is the key, anyone can make a 1 time wonder, but daily driving it with many miles is pricless. There is no low budget boost. Especially if its done right!


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

this is why I'm not going with a 02a or 02J tranny.
Picture this. I'm putting down 400whp on a 02A at the track racing. going into 3rd gear and BAM broke 3rd gear to ****ing hell. I have a race on Sunday at Atco and I just broke my 3rd gear friday at Capital test and tune. Where in the hell am I going to find a 3rd gear for this tranny? crazy rays don't have them. most junkyards that have them are 3-400 for the tranny. I can get one through vortex but I'll have to find someone with a spare tranny or gear then have to get it shipped here. or if I find a tranny its 3-400 on here. and I'll still have to get it rebuilt. I'm SCREWED.








Another picture. I'm putting down 400whp on a 02O at the track racing. going into 3rd gear and BAM broke 3rd gear to ****ing hell. I have a race on Sunday at Atco and I just broke my 3rd gear friday at Capital test and tune. Where in the hell am I going to find a 3rd gear for this tranny? crazy rays have them all day long. I have a ACD, ACN tranny in my garage. I can get one through vortex but I'll have to find someone with spare parts on a widely owned tranny from 1980-1994 and parts are every where. and I'll still have to get it rebuilt. I'm Can grab my spare tranny and parts and talk to my tranny guy and we can get this rebuilt in 3 hours. then I can put it back in the car in one day and I can sit and drink beer thinking about how the race is going to go tomorrow.








You'll can get mad but its the truth and you'll know it. in a emergency situation its better to have a 020 then a 02a or 02J where I live. and I have yet to see a vw tranny that doesn't break parts. I've seen 020 take 400-500whp and some are still alive and some are broken same with any other tranny. I've seen 02a and 02j take 400-500whp and are still alive and some are broken. 
MY personal past experences with 020 breaks was because of my **** ups. 
my first was a 4K on t3/t4 60-1 turbo. I was doing burn outs all day long and runinng 17psi of boost on it and going to the track and street racing the car every chance I got. that tranny is still alive today and shifts fine.
Second was a FF tranny.same thing. burn outs launching hard speed shifting. the reason it broke was because I side stepped the clutch at 6000 rpms at the track trying to launch hard. it took a lot if these but that one it said Not today and I blow out the Spider gears in the diff.
Third was a ACD tranny. it lived for a long time. it broke because I was at the track trying to run a good time and I speed shifted from 1-2 gear and I missed 2nd gear and I warped the sleeve and got locked out of 1st gear. tranny was ok after I had the sleeve replaced. This is the tranny with the welded diff in it. 
Fourth one and one I'm currently running is a ACN tranny. Its in the car and holding perfectly. 
In all my drag racing both on the street and track I have yet to break a driving gear. 
now it would cost me a good $1500 - 1,700 in parts and supplies to switch over to a 02A or 02J tranny with a quaife. its not worth it for me to do it. there are plenty of guys runinng 020 trannys and they are lasting. 
I'm saying until 02a and 02J trannys and parts go down to the price and availablity of where the 020 is now its no point in me switching.


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## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_
Another picture. I'm putting down 400whp on a 02O at the track racing. going into 3rd gear and BAM broke 3rd gear to ****ing hell. 


Dude you really need to step back and take a look at what you are saying and the advice of others who have gone down this path before. You have been struggling all summer to get this thing down the track cleanly and from what I could find real quickly you haven't done so well.
1/8: 9.203 
MPH: 85.22 
1000: 11.769 
1/4: 13.929 
MPH: 104.91
That's the best pass that I could find for you. In a 2300lb car that equals about 210whp. So lets say you have been tuned since then, you are making a lot more power, lets say 275whp. Since then you've done nothing but shatter axles or trans parts.
Now you want to effectively double that power again and use the same basic parts in the drivetrain and you think they are magically going to hold? What are you doing differently than before? Going to put a diff into it?, it's going to help for sure but it's not going to solve your problems.
I won't even get into the lunacy of the idea of having a 500whp car when IIRC you haven't even run 12's yet.
Do you realize a properly setup 500whp would have you trapping well into the 130's which would leave you going through the 1/8th at a higher trap than that slip I posted above has in the 1/4? Let's not even discuss that it should leave you in the bottom 10's and requires a crap load of safety equipement to run at any NHRA track legally.
How about you learn to walk before your run.
I hate to come across so harsh but get real, start putting some logic into what you are saying.



_Modified by J.Q. Public at 11:56 PM 12-26-2006_


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## Scrubbs (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (J.Q. Public)*

Derrick, From what i heard, you may be makin 17 psi, but the HP isnt there, you were in the mid 200's from what i remember. 020's will stay together longer than 300hp. Stop using junk, and take a step forward,buy something 1 time, there are parts out there that can do what you want. you will go through , 8 trans 's from Crazy rays, when you can put 1 awesome trans together, and be able to street a decent 350, all day long at the trackfor the same price. Again ,look at the bigger picture. like JQ said, learn to walk before you can run. we arent mad, or bustin your balls, we have been down the same road. and you ask for help, an dinput, but still dont listen, or even drift to the thought process that we try to instill. 020's are junk, plain and simple. they were introduced on a 75 hp car. possibly less.(dont have exact numbers,but i know its low.)
A properly built 02a with upgraded gears, or even a quaife box will be cheaper in the long run, we all know this, but we still gravitate to the 02a becuase it is "stronger" by comparison. the prices for junk is gonna stay the same, or go up. Plus your makin it harder for me to find a few rare parts. 
If you insist on 020, then build a proper box, and be careful on it, 500 is too lofty, engine output or wheel. Stop wasting money and time, beating a very dead horse. pulling a trans sux on a Scirroco,(compared to a mk3 )i would rathe rbuild it 1 time , and drink a case of beer. for the same amount of time it took you to replace 3 020 trans's


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Scrubbs)*

JQ said it right if I'm at 500whp at the track that will put in in a 10's class where I'll have to upgrade my safety equitment to even run in a NHRA track or event. 300whp 'maybe' is touching the track. I'm trying to make 500whp on a stock motor with bolt ons. I'm not drag racing the car at 500whp. I'm shooting for a HP number not 1/4 mile number. I have a 020 tranny with a quaife installed sitting in my garage right now with 2 other trannys. Its no point in me switching to a 02A tranny until I and build a motor to take 500whp daily. Next if I'm going for a low quarter mile time then yea. I'm building a motor and going with a 02a with 02j internals because its is stronger in terms of handling the power. 
But with the parts I have now its no point in me going to 02A tranny if I'm not going to be running that much HP. 2.0 16v motor was designed to make 139hp. same as a 020 tranny. it was designed to take 75-120hp. thus the ribbits in the diff. 
if I'm trying to run 10' or mid 9's it would be a different story. i'll be building a built motor with forged internales and building a 02A with 02J internals tranny with straight cut coated gears tranny.


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## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_ I'm not drag racing the car at 500whp. I'm shooting for a HP number not 1/4 mile number. 

So basically you got into an internet d***k swinging contest?
Really makes sense to go through all that trouble just to say my dyno is bigger than yours. 
I'd rather be at the track putting down the numbers and sticking it to the domestics than saying look at this pretty graph I have over here.
To each his own though. Good luck on hitting your goals is all I can say at this point


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

an o2a will break just as easily at any real power. so leave the kid alone. hes saying plain and simple he cant afford to run a o2a. hes right they are more expensive! and if you dont mind tearing down an o20 every weekend then whats the difference? you all know lugnuts was using a stock o20 when he went 9s right? not the kraftswerks box! also i do agree that the o2a is a better choice. as i have one in my car over the o20, but hey if you dont have the cash what can you do!


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## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: (turbodub)*

Who says VW's can't Rev? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ts-motorsport.de/video/ts-max.wmv
16v POWER! lol enjoy


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: (highbeam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *highbeam* »_Who says VW's can't Rev? 

haha.. i turn my 24v on tec3 to almost 8k. As for the 020 debate, that should be an obvious. I haven't heard of many people breaking the 02m trannies. . . try that. It's a tedious job (custom, so what isn't), but it'll pay off when you're throwing all that boost at it and you can claim that your dyno queen created enough horses to feed every dog on the planet. 
VW's weakest link is the drive line, everyone hears it, half of us listen to it, and only a few of us know it. Listen to the few that do. . .


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## adam12er (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: (AAdontworkx3)*

Many people on here have lots of experience with different trans options. Tyrone27, I think I agree with most of them, because you are thinking of going to slicks. (I have said this before) We ran about 100 11sec passes on a stock 020 with a welded diff (the trans was previously road-raced) and stock axles. This was all with M&H DOT slicks.
Then 3rd gear broke, we pulled the box, replace the bad gear and shaft (retained other non-broken parts) installed a spool (thanks Kevin) and put the stock axles back in. We then ran about another 50 11sec passes (mostly 11.4 - 11.6)
So, are 020's weak? Yep! But, can they hold up if you preload and not use huge slicks? Yep!
I agree, building it right the first time is by far the best route, but if you poor like me, then try it, it just might work out.
My 2 cents would be, if you are going to spend money on building something good.....build and auto!
Anyway, good luck on your build.














cheers



_Modified by adam12er at 10:15 PM 12-29-2006_


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (adam12er)*

yea I'm going with a diff because I drive the car on a sunny day to cruise and a freezing dry day to just well boost. 
I'm getting my injectors next week just looking to see what they might idle at and how much i have to turn up my RPM. the injectors are the only thing i'm getting right now until I tear down the tranny and see whats up with it and I'll deside how to do things from there. if the shaft is messed up the quaife is going in a 8v tranny tall gears. if its just 3rd gear I'm dropping in a 3rd gear. don't know anyhting until its opened so have to wait. 
I'm going to have Pics and all of my progress so stay tuned.
the slicks I'm getting should be good for the next 3 years since I always preload the tranny with the 4 puck. I also have some 205/55 14 Nitto drag radials so if i have to down size i can put those on.
I'm not doing any high hp drag racing so not really worried about slicks. I heard about a lot of people on the dyno just spinning tires so instead of me loosing money at the dyno I migh tas well dyno on slicks so I won't have that problem plus I have to get slicks anyway for the drag strip so its a catch 20 22 on slicks. 
I updated my parts list and all so I think it should be everything i'll need to complete my goal.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_
I updated my parts list and all

No you did not...

_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_
16v 020 tranny with a quaife with FF 5th gear

Does anyone have a 02A ---> 020 comparison picture to post up for this guy?I dont think he understands the differences between both gearboxes.Clearly no one can be this ignorant to well experienced advice.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

actually I did. if you would actually read and keep track you would see.


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## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (tyrone27)*

not trying to be a total @ss but if you stick with the 020 I have a few that are good for parts and am not all that far from atco your more than welcome to have for some







one is missing 2nd gear,another 4th along with another with a blown diff 
I thought along your lines for a while......till I ran out of my cheap source of trannies localy(local yard I deal with) I may have gone to a 02a sooner if I could have found one local but for now the car is on hold and its beater season


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

thanks. I won't be up in NJ until March. If you still have the parts then I'll swing by and pick them up.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (tyrone27)*

going to shoot for 400whp then go for 500whp. made one little calculation error. forgot to factor in the fuel pump.


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## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_I still say 500whp on a dyno will not blow a 020 with a quiafe. 500whp drag racing will blow it. 








okay. which is why i was able to kill SIX of them in my mk2 with a stock aba swap... (115 crank hp) The 02A will deal with the abuse, 020s will not. 
















one of the many 020s that grenaded, half the time it was the diff spitting the spider gears out the side of the gear box, the other half it was stripping teeth off the gears.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (myjettaisred)*

not to be a ass but there is something wrong with that picture. one I'm not going to be running a stock diff. and two u and me have completely different driving habits. I'm not doing that with over 200whp and I drag race it every now and then.


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## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_not to be a ass but there is something wrong with that picture. one I'm not going to be running a stock diff. and two u and me have completely different driving habits. I'm not doing that with over 200whp and I drag race it every now and then.

your talking about putting SLICKS on a car and launching it. i just drive semi agressively on 15" 205 50 street tires and i was going through 020s left and right.
launch an BRAND NEW 020 on slicks with HALF of your planned horsepower and its going to grenade. throw an unforgiving racing 4 puck clutch in to the mix and your going to have drive train armeggedon.
not to mention what clutch are you planning on running? there is no 020 clutch avalible thats going to hold 500 hp. 
just ask the aba turbo guys who are stuck with an 020, a mild aba turbo (10 psi) lets say makes 200 whp just for conversations sake... most of those guys are going through clutches left and right. its plain and simple, vw didnt design the 020 box to be beat on. i speak from expierence, the 02a is a FAR superior gear box and will hold up to just about anything you throw at it.
theres VR5T guys stripping CRYO treated gears in 02J gear boxes just doing 4th gear pulls. (foffa2002) 
I know a local who has a vr6t corrado, it dynoed 375~ something and he has broken his share of gears in an 02A (far far superior to the 020) 

if you seriously think an 020 is going to hold up to 500 hp then your crazy.


----------



## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (myjettaisred)*

My 2.0T had "maybe" 200 whp, and I went through 10 of those 020s. I have never been on a race track in my life, and have never done a burnout in my VW. I am hard on the car, but not THAT hard.
As for the comment about finding a suitable clutch ... I must say I never had trouble with a slipping clutch, but I ran a 4-puck with a stock 16V PP. 
I'm sure you can find a clutch that will hold the power, but it won't be a very "fun" clutch, and again, that 020 is not going to be happy. If you do run a Quaife, you know you won't blow a differential, but you will definitely strip gears. I've stripped gears while gently rolling into boost. (Yes, cruising, and then slowly getting into the gas in 3rd or 5th, and once boost hit, CRUNCH->NEUTRAL).
Hats off for doing your own thing, and wanting to test the limits of certain components, but, honestly, save yourself the time, and go with an 02A or 02J ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*

You know it's been a long time since I've posted, but this stuff comes up every so often and I just gotta say, have any of you checked into what a salvage 020 costs? If you are doing this for a hobby, and not to make a living in competition, You are spending too much money on your hobby if you are building an 02A/02J. This guy wants to make some numbers, have fun, get some street cred. Maybe he'll run a couple of events, great. When it blows up, he'll fix it. When you blow up your 02A you'll fix it, and when Mr. Moneybags breaks his 02J, he'll fix that too. But Tyrone27 didn't spend ANYWHERE NEAR the money on his HOBBY. It's not that he isn't taking your advice, it's that he has considered it, weighed the pros and cons, and gone with what makes sense to him. If I were in his shoes, I would do the same thing,,,,break a bunch of 020's that were free or dirt cheap until I got tired of it, then move up. Does that make any sense to any one? Maybe it's cuz I'm poor, profecient with tools and can R and R a tranny in under 3 hrs.




_Modified by Junkyardrabbit at 1:39 PM 1-3-2007_


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Junkyardrabbit)*

Being able to RR a tranny in 3 hours, and not having money, doesn't make blowing trannies every 3 weeks any more fun.
02J and 02A aren't _that_ expensive, and 020's aren't that cheap. It takes a hell of a lot more to break one of the better trannies too. 
The only reason I still put 020s in my car when I kept blowing them up, was because I didn't have a penny to my name, and needed my car on the road quick. If I were in Tyrone's shoes, I would probably do the same, but I defintely wouldn't be trying to put 500whp down through an 020.


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## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Junkyardrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Junkyardrabbit* »_You know it's been a long time since I've posted, but this stuff comes up every so often and I just gotta say, have any of you checked into what a salvage 020 costs? If you are doing this for a hobby, and not to make a living in competition, You are spending too much money on your hobby if you are building an 02A/02J. This guy wants to make some numbers, have fun, get some street cred. Maybe he'll run a couple of events, great. When it blows up, he'll fix it. When you blow up your 02A you'll fix it, and when Mr. Moneybags breaks his 02J, he'll fix that too. But Tyrone27 didn't spend ANYWHERE NEAR the money on his HOBBY. It's not that he isn't taking your advice, it's that he has considered it, weighed the pros and cons, and gone with what makes sense to him. If I were in his shoes, I would do the same thing,,,,break a bunch of 020's that were free or dirt cheap until I got tired of it, then move up. Does that make any sense to any one? Maybe it's cuz I'm poor, profecient with tools and can R and R a tranny in under 3 hrs.
_Modified by Junkyardrabbit at 1:39 PM 1-3-2007_

well said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I also may add that a 020 in a lighter car is under less stress than in a heavy car like a mk3 jetta all other things like hp and tq being equal








edit:sometimes its fun too when things go kaboom







especialy when you have a spare or 2


_Modified by not SoQuick at 12:42 PM 1-3-2007_


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## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (not SoQuick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *not SoQuick* »_
edit:sometimes its fun too when things go kaboom







especialy when you have a spare or 2



not when your sick of replacing trannys 
i can do a mk3 2.0 clutch in just over 3 hours on a lift.
i hate pulling trannys. 
its more fun to drive than it is to fix http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scrubbs (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (myjettaisred)*

Clutch disk in hand 20 mins.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Scrubbs)*

I can R&R a tranny in my car in 3 hours on the ground in the freezing cold. with a lift a hour and a half. 
I'm making over 200whp now and I'm not doing anywhere near that to a tranny. most I ever done was blow the spider gears on the diff and when it was torn down the gears where fine. in fact everythign was fine except the hole in and bell housing from the spider gear parts. 
Not getting the car dynoed until I have everything up and ready. because pretty much my first pull will be what i'm currently making so no need and spending 100 bucks for 3 pulls right now and 300 later when I can just spend 300 later have have all the data at one time. 
I run a 200mm 4 puck with a stock 16v PP and it drives like stock. 
and for the record again *I HAVE A QUAIFE ALREADY IN THE TRANNY. ITS SITTING IN MY BASEMENT RIGHT NOW WITH A QUAIFE IN IT.* 
And I do this for mostly a hobby. I can get 020 for like 50-75 bucks. 
But on to better news I'm ordering my 83lb injectors tonight and next weekend I'm opening the tranny up to see whats up with it. I'm thinking about just breaking down and getting a digital video camcorder so I can report my progress and also at night when I'm at test and tune have some way better video then my junk digital camera takes.


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## adam12er (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *agtronic* »_My 2.0T had "maybe" 200 whp, and I went through 10 of those 020s. I have never been on a race track in my life, and have never done a burnout in my VW. I am hard on the car, but not THAT hard.


_Quote, originally posted by *myjettaisred* »_okay. which is why i was able to kill SIX of them in my mk2 with a stock aba swap... (115 crank hp) The 02A will deal with the abuse, 020s will not. 

I still agree with you guys that the 020's are not strong. but, how in the hell could you break so many with those power levels? There had to be something else going _i.e. crazy clutch drop, no fluid, 3rd gear lauch etc._ How could you possibly break the gears easing into the boost in 3rd gear with 10psi?
I can believe that 5th gear would break with 200hp, as they were an after thought and they are very weak. (we left ours out of our 020 drag tranny)
I am not picking on you guys and your finicky transmissions, it just seems a little overkill to break so many (mine lasts a whole season of 400hp with a sprung 4 puck and 5500rpm launches...hmmmm)
I know this thread was not meant to be a tranny debate. I guess some of you guys are on the very unlucky side and I must be on the extremely lucky side.
I still say.....GO AUTOMATIC!


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (adam12er)*

it wasn't ment to be a transmission debate. I started it to post and show the building of a 500whp motor with a low budget. Next year I was going to actually build a motor top to bottom with solid lifter and all that would rev and make power and do the roll cage. year after that I was going to start looking in to transmissions if I keep breaking mine. It was ultimately going to be the building of a low 9 second scirocco on a self budget and build spanding a few years. 
If I get a sponsor or some help great. but **** I'm doing this with my own damn money. There are people on here that are giving me discounts on parts and helping support the build. So if I putting the money in to it i'm building it the way I want to. How many people on here are running and can afford to build a 9 second car off the bat and just out of a wim? No one. From what I seen last year at event VW are dead when it comes to drag racing events. A whole page basically of 020 vs 02A. There is no way there should be this much yelling over this. and people with vw owners cry about how they have no support from sponsors and vendors for performance parts. I'm trying to get out there and try to promote vw and at least push the industry some to look at vw as a competutor in drag racing seen and not just in the car show booths. I go to test and tune and I see a **** load of Hondas and muscles cars tearing up the track. Why aren't we out there? 
Last year I was monitoring honda tech forum and a guy posted about doing the same thing I'm doing and you know what he got. very little yelling and a lot of help. all I seen was I have this turbo for sale and that turbo for sell and you need some help. and you need some spare parts. u need me to come give you a hand. here you don't see that ****. and its a damn shame to every vw owner out there that we fell so far in so few years. 
I'm in a car club someone breaks down they need parts we got you. they need help its give me a call. and me typing this I realize why there are very few vw out there racing and why a lot of people with fast vws don't post on here.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_
and for the record again *I HAVE A QUAIFE ALREADY IN THE TRANNY. ITS SITTING IN MY BASEMENT RIGHT NOW WITH A QUAIFE IN IT.*

LSD != Gears....


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## fvdub00 (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_it wasn't ment to be a transmission debate. I started it to post and show the building of a 500whp motor with a low budget. Next year I was going to actually build a motor top to bottom with solid lifter and all that would rev and make power and do the roll cage. year after that I was going to start looking in to transmissions if I keep breaking mine. It was ultimately going to be the building of a low 9 second scirocco on a self budget and build spanding a few years. 
If I get a sponsor or some help great. but **** I'm doing this with my own damn money. There are people on here that are giving me discounts on parts and helping support the build. So if I putting the money in to it i'm building it the way I want to. How many people on here are running and can afford to build a 9 second car off the bat and just out of a wim? No one. From what I seen last year at event VW are dead when it comes to drag racing events. A whole page basically of 020 vs 02A. There is no way there should be this much yelling over this. and people with vw owners cry about how they have no support from sponsors and vendors for performance parts. I'm trying to get out there and try to promote vw and at least push the industry some to look at vw as a competutor in drag racing seen and not just in the car show booths. I go to test and tune and I see a **** load of Hondas and muscles cars tearing up the track. Why aren't we out there? 
Last year I was monitoring honda tech forum and a guy posted about doing the same thing I'm doing and you know what he got. very little yelling and a lot of help. all I seen was I have this turbo for sale and that turbo for sell and you need some help. and you need some spare parts. u need me to come give you a hand. here you don't see that ****. and its a damn shame to every vw owner out there that we fell so far in so few years. 
I'm in a car club someone breaks down they need parts we got you. they need help its give me a call. and me typing this I realize why there are very few vw out there racing and why a lot of people with fast vws don't post on here. 

Just do you and let the haters hate
much props to any vw trying to go fast http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Frank


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## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_ I started it to post and show the building of a 500whp motor with a low budget. 

thats your first problem, 500 WHP is a highly unrealistic goal on a budget.
it hasnt been said yet so ill say it.
fast and cheap is not reliable
cheap and reliable is not fast
fast and reliable is not cheap.
the tranny thing is the least of your worries..... make the magical 200 whp first. its more difficult and expensive than you think.
there are guys on here with nearly unlimited budgets and they arent putting any where near 500 whp.
(of course there are exceptions to this but few and far between)
im all about having fun, doing things your self, not buying a "kit"
but be smart about it. and listen to peoples advice. espically the people who are trying to help and have been where your at. 020, 02A, 02M, 02Q what ever, pick what ever gear box you want. 
Im not trying to shoot your goal down, but it boils down to:
speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?
i would be VERY impressed if you show me a dyno with your parts lists thats 350 whp 
23.5x8x3 SPEARCO, Master power t3/t4 50 trim .63 stage 3, #52lb injectors, * STOCK MOTOR* , 2 ABA headgaskets, ACD 020 tranny, tec2 management. 
thats your biggest problem. the 16v uses 027 rods (similar to 1.8 20v rods.) those are going to go around 380~ crank
and thats pushing it.
you have way way more home work to do if you want to make the power your talking about.
good luck.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (myjettaisred)*

HMMMMM 200whp hmmmm. 200whp you say. hmmm. let me think about that. hmmmmm lets see last year I woke up took a shower. started my car and went to VA for a dyno day. 









And what do you know I even had a video made of me: 
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/...d.mpg 
damn 200whp you say. hmm well i did over 200whp with the car runinng bad tuned with a 4 wire narrow band sensor. 








229.07WHP and 208.82TQ runinng bad on a 1.8 16v motor. and that was on a 4K with a 6 puck stock tranny. 
I already make over 200whp.







on my old setup.


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

The difference between 200whp and 400whp is huge. Take baby steps, build everything right with the motor and tranny and then go for the big numbers.
Also, Ive seen 020's run 11's and then Ive blown so many of them with 150whp or less. Its all a toss up with those things. Truthfully, I ditched them and spend a little extra on a 02A w/ Peloquin. When that goes, Ill spend the money on the APTuning gear set. 
Gotta pay to play, theres no way around it.


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## oversteervw (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_It was ultimately going to be the building of a low 9 second scirocco on a self budget and build spanding a few years. 


subscribing to the Horatio-Alger Myth a little too much with this goal.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (oversteervw)*

#83lb injectors in








LC-1 wideband is in:








Now just waiting on tranny rebuild and i'm selling my t3/t4 and getting a t3 60-1 DBB.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Wizard-of-OD)*

you keep saying you have an LSD installed, an LSD has nothing to do with shredding the teeth off a gear.


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## dbernhoft (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Stroked1.8t)*

I'll sell you a kraftwerks straight cut 020, it will hold 500 wheel. Good luck finding a clutch that will though.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (dbernhoft)*

ok have injectors installed. Tried a few setting and the way things are looking I might have to scrap my maps and Turn from scratch again with th e 83lb injectors. I'm going to make a new map tomorrow and see where it goes.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

installed the #83lb siemens injectors and I managed to get it down to between a 1.01 and 1.02ms injector time.
got the idle to 11.97-12:1 with the #83lb injectors and minium injection time to 1.01-1.02ms at 1100 RPM
Next project is repairing 3rd gear in tranny. SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!! 
Then its t3 60-1 turbo and off to the dyno for tuning. then I'm getting the sleeve coil overs.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

11.97-12.1 a/f sucks......that is pretty rich, I would say you run a risk or washing the cylinders and doing damage to your hone and rings.


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Stroked1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_11.97-12.1 a/f sucks......that is pretty rich, I would say you run a risk or washing the cylinders and doing damage to your hone and rings.


It happens with batch fire and large injectors. Most people compensate by raising the idle to like 1500. Ill probably do that on my set up until I get tired of it and go with something that has sequential injection.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_It happens with batch fire and large injectors. Most people compensate by raising the idle to like 1500. Ill probably do that on my set up until I get tired of it and go with something that has sequential injection.

I don't see how batch / sequential has anything to do with minimum injector pulse width. Saturated vs. peak/hold yes ... but not batch / sequential no?


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*

It doesnt have anything to do with pulse width.
It does have to do with the injector firing when its needed and not for the 3 intake strokes of the other cylinders. This way you have no fuel puddling behind the valves causing a rich condition.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Band-Aid)*

UPDATE:
well the 16v tranny was finally broken down and its not cost effective to reapir so the quaife is going in my ACD tranny. Should be up and rebuilt by the end of next week. 
I'm waiting on pricing for my new turbo. once I get the pricing and install the new turbo the car is going on a trailor and off to get dyno tuned.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_It does have to do with the injector firing when its needed and not for the 3 intake strokes of the other cylinders. This way you have no fuel puddling behind the valves causing a rich condition.

But whether the fuel puddles at the intake valve or is fired while the valve is open, the same amount of fuel is being fed into the motor, no?
I don't see how a batch fired system would make a car run rich at idle.


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## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_UPDATE:
well the 16v tranny was finally broken down and its not cost effective to reapir 










good luck to you and your budget minded, stock rod, 500 whp goal. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_
But whether the fuel puddles at the intake valve or is fired while the valve is open, the same amount of fuel is being fed into the motor, no?
I don't see how a batch fired system would make a car run rich at idle.

That is the only time you'll notice the difference between Full sequential and batch... after 3500rpms, all the injectors are practically firing at once and you won't be able to see the sequence. Besides, while one piston is on it's compression, the other will be on it's exhaust stroke and that little bit of extra fuel will either atomize or cool the exhaust valve on its way out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (AAdontworkx3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AAdontworkx3* »_That is the only time you'll notice the difference between Full sequential and batch... after 3500rpms, all the injectors are practically firing at once and you won't be able to see the sequence. Besides, while one piston is on it's compression, the other will be on it's exhaust stroke and that little bit of extra fuel will either atomize or cool the exhaust valve on its way out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Okay, I understand that part. However, it still doesn't make sense to me that a batch-fire system makes an engine run rich at idle. If it's too rich, why not take out some fuel? I can accept if the injectors are very large, and you can't get a short-enough pulse, but I see no connection between poor fuel atomization and air/fuel ratio.
My understanding is that a full sequential system will use less fuel to acheive a target AFR.


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## riegerscirocco (Oct 1, 2002)

for the life of me i cant understand why people build things that have such a high chance of failure. do you really have that much money and time to burn???
im glad youre trying this out and quite frankly i hope it works. but i think this is an example of someone taking "good tuning" too far. what i mean is that it has been a trend lately for people to try and tune better vs. build better. people using full standalones on stock motors to push the stock parts to the limit. thats all fine and dandy but there is a limit to how much abuse the stock parts can take regardless of how good the tune is. i think this build and its goal overstep that boundary by a lot. just my 2 cents but id love to be proven wrong........


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_
Okay, I understand that part. However, it still doesn't make sense to me that a batch-fire system makes an engine run rich at idle. If it's too rich, why not take out some fuel? I can accept if the injectors are very large, and you can't get a short-enough pulse, but I see no connection between poor fuel atomization and air/fuel ratio.
My understanding is that a full sequential system will use less fuel to acheive a target AFR.

I think it's something to do with the lack of air passing through the TB. . . the butterfly valve is closed and just a faint amount of air is keeping it alive, but the fuel is still dumping on a piston during it's exhaust stroke. 
As for the full sequential, I used it on the 12vt when I was running 72lb injectors, but when i switched to the 24v, i converted it to batch fire on the stock injectors. Believe me, I called and did all the research i could to figure out why full sequential would save me a bit more fuel. . . but at the higher rpms it didn't make a huge difference mpg wise.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (AAdontworkx3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AAdontworkx3* »_As for the full sequential, I used it on the 12vt when I was running 72lb injectors, but when i switched to the 24v, i converted it to batch fire on the stock injectors. Believe me, I called and did all the research i could to figure out why full sequential would save me a bit more fuel. . . but at the higher rpms it didn't make a huge difference mpg wise.









That's exactly what I'm saying. It'll save you FUEL, because sequential makes more efficient use of the fuel by injecting it while there is air flow in the runner. What I'm arguing is that batch or sequential can not directly have an effect on target AFR. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*

Sequential vs semi sequential... 
- If you have large injectors or injectors with a lot of dead time, you will save fuel and plugs and reduce emissions.
Also you will be able to make more power berfore maxing out the injector.
Example 1: At idle with large injectors you are fighting to get the on-time to the bare minimum. But you can only go so low. With batch you have to fire the injector twice, and the minimum fueling is doubled.
Example 2: At WOT and high rpm... you are running a batch fire setup and you have to fire the injector twice per cycle... say the dead time is 1.2 ms. Thats 1.2ms of time that you cannot inject fuel, so the sequential will be able to supply more fuel for a given injector size.
As for spraying fuel with the intake valve closed, its no big deal. Happens all the time anyway (CIS=Continuous Injection System) 
However with large enough injectors and a system that can adjust the injector timing, there are small gains to be had.


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## TurboXpert (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: 2007 racing project (dbernhoft)*

Im no tranny expert but i too have ent through a fair share of 020's myself and i too had a Quaife and swapped 5th in my MK2 G60. I went through 7 020's in that car. Im rebuilding the car as we speak (fully built ABA turbo) and im smarting up and using a 02A this time. In my daily driver (89 rebuilt 9a 16v Coupe running on digi) and in the 3 months since building the car ive already went through 3 020's. Im sticking with the 020 in the Coupe as its my daily and im trying not to go crazy on it







.
Funny as i read this thread, you remind me of a good friend of mine. I consantly tell him to do things right the first time so you wont have to go back and do it over. (not saying thats a bad thing or anything). I love him like a brother but he never listens to me, a person who has been building these cars for over 15 yrs not to mention i do this for a living. I partly understand though, not everyone has money to burn on endless parts so you have to make do with what you have. I wish you luck on your build up. I too am in the middle of building a track only car. I have 90% of the parts, motor wise. Just waiting for my body man to pick up the shell for paint.
like i said before, i wish you luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Dread


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_Example 1: At idle with large injectors you are fighting to get the on-time to the bare minimum. But you can only go so low. With batch you have to fire the injector twice, and the minimum fueling is doubled.

Batch-fire systems inject fuel twice per cycle? This I didn't know. Well that clears it up.
Still comes down to this though, if your injectors are not too large, both batch and sequential systems will be able to achieve a normal idle AFR.


_Modified by Agtronic at 8:39 AM 1-20-2007_


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Agtronic)*

here is a video of my boost gauge:
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/...e.mpg 
Here is one of me boost the car on 83lb injectors:
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/...n.mpg
Car is a lot stronger and its not even tuned yet. just a TOG and IOT and some numbers I throw at it to keep from dumping to much fuel in the ve table. 
And here is a video of me dropping the ms on my injectors to show how the car reacts and leans out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVToiE0tR9U


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

4th gear at 7000RPM with nittos 113MPH


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

Only the youtube vid is good.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Band-Aid)*

yea vwsport is down


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## Scrubbs (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

Why do you have idle set at 1200+ Rpm?
Couldnt get 1k to idle?
A lower idle sounds beefy, on a 16v. But its probably a pain to catch the deccel.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Scrubbs)*

I can get it down to 800 RPm acturlly. there where I had it set at orignallys. but cold starts, decel, and on the gas accelerationl its easier to set it at 1200 RPM.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

Ok. Turbo is on order and trannys is at the shop getting rebuilt with the Quaife.
So turbo should be in next week and trannys should be done in a week or two. I was going to wait to order the turbo but I have a lot of trans parts and I remembered how the ACD tranny looked when it was completed with the welded diff so I have a good idea of the parts I need to order for my co worker to rebuild it.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

UPDATE:
Ok turbo should be in next week. tranny is almost done. should be done next week too. I'm going to install the turbo forst and then the tranny laster. 
Here is my co-worker that did the rebuild: 








Here is the Quaife on the bench:








And here is my turbo that should be arriving at my door next week:








So every thing is on schedule. Dyno tuning should be done next month. Shooting for 3-500whp. 
Then after dyno is done its going to be coilovers and suspension.


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## Scrubbs (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

OMG!! Please tell that was an aluminum jawed vice clamped on the ring gear?????????
















Clamping the gear, like that ,has a tendency to "chip" the edges of the teeth, Smalls chunks of the teeth actually start to crack off, some you dont see,till it ends up on the magnet.... Been there, done that wasnt pretty, I learned the Hard way. Im sure your friend is comfortable doing the work, but im concearned with the practices, and cleanlyness of the assembly area. Come on its right next to the Grinder for goodness sake. Clamping the ring gear, Did you reuse those bolts, or replace them. Derrick ,im sorry ,not trying to ruffle your feathers but,its just not how transmisions should be done. I guess i should say ,"My Transmission",and with that I wont bother to respond to your thread anymore. You never seem to take advice from the more informed when you have it stuck in your that this is how it should be done.
Seriuosly, Not to thread Jack,But if you arent familiar withthwe process's to properly dissasemble and reassemble,along with proper care for the parts, and materials used, Dont touch it, get someone familiar with it. This applies to ANYTHING saftey related or engine /trans internals, ETC.
For example , dont ask me to do body work, i will tell you up front,"Ill Fook it up, and ill do that VERY well." 
Good Luck Derrick, I truely hope you acomplish your goals. I just hope that your friends wont have to pick you up on the side of the road ,because you could have avoided a uneccesary repair earlier on in the build. 


_Modified by Scrubbs at 10:51 PM 1-26-2007_


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (Scrubbs)*

UPDATE:
I ordered a flange kit for the turbo that should be here the same time the turbo gets here. 








Also brought this but this is for another project I'm working on that is coming out later:


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

UPDATE:
Flanges in picture above are in. just waiting on the turbo that will be here thursday and installed friday morning. 
I was looking through some old pictures I have of when I first turboed my car and all and here is something that I thought I might add to the project pictures. This is a Picture of my old T3/T4 60-1 HIFI turbo I was running a long time ago on my 1.8 at 15-17 psi. its a stage 5 .63


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

UPDATE:
turbo in going to start install tomorrow.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

UPDATE:
Turbo is in and looking good. I just have to tighten up the housing and hook up the oil lines and exhaust. should be running tomorrow night. here is some pics I took to compare turbos:


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

UPDATE:
here a video of the car running on the 60-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4NayvpF_zI


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

UPDATE:
car is up and driving. currently tuned for 7 psi at 11:1 AFR. going to the dyno saturday for a dyno day to see where i'm at in WHP. Should have the LC-1 installed by the weekend and tuned earily saturday morning and on the dyno that evening.
Shooting for 400whp. and going for 500whp with dyno time in.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

UPDATE: installed ACD Quaife tranny today. now just have to install the boost controller and I'm off to the dyno


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## Ghetto-8v (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: 2007 racing project (tyrone27)*

Sick. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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