# Soooo, I did my timing belt and BOOM



## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

Not really boom, but, I got a timing code. The code is P0011 

As some of you guys may know the ECS Stage 1 clutch kit doesn't have a TDC mark on the fly wheel. Anywho, I am having issues with that code. 

I marked my old belt in 6 places with the cam and crank gears, and everything lined up perfectly when I installed the timing belt. Pull the roller tight with my hand to where I wanted it before letting the pun out of the tensioner. Tension was good. I got the code and checked that the first cylinder was the the top with a ratchet extension and it was TDC with the cam gear on the Valve cover. Next thing I did was count the teeth between the TDC mark on the cam gear to the nub on the crank gear. There was exactly 68 teeth like it should be. 

I then opened the valve cover to make sure the chain was on right even though I did not mess with it, and there was 16 pins like there should be between both TDC's. 

Anyone have any ideas? 

Car sounds like a freaking diesel. LOL 

Thanks!


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## STOICH (Jun 21, 2010)

If it's mechanically in time, then you might have a bad sensor on your hands.


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

Initially it would start and run rough, now it won't start at all. Yay


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

possibility you moved a gear or what not.

no start, perhaps crank or cam sensor

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## SeXy~CaNdY~wHiTe (Dec 12, 2008)

Sounds like the can is off by a tooth or two. I've done like 20 of these n I did one with a tooth off n it threw a code similar to these one. It still had no problem with it running hood. Line up the crank up the top timing cover off n c if it still lined up. Then send pic or write back.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

yeah i don't have fly wheel markings either, i just get the bottom tdc and make sure it dainty move when putting the belt on. worked for years, but more than likely cams are of

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## M_K_4_GUY (Sep 30, 2011)

Is the timing Belt tension damper pin able to be pressed down by hand?


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## hiplazma (May 31, 2009)

Check the tdc mark on the crank pully should match the the mark on the lower cover that is if you put the pully on the correct way


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

hiplazma said:


> Check the tdc mark on the crank pully should match the the mark on the lower cover that is if you put the pully on the correct way


 Yea... Not quite sure why you're marking gears and counting teeth. There are timing marks on the cam and crank pulleys. Line them up at the same time and call it a day.


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

Frank-i-e said:


> Initially it would start and run rough, now it won't start at all. Yay


 This makes me believe you need to rebuild your head now as your timing is probably off about 2 or 3 teeth. 

There are two distinct marks in which you should time your motor by. One on the valve cover matching with a mark on the cam gear and the other on the lower timing belt cover with a matching mark on the harmonic balancer. Those are the only two marks you should be using. The flywheel is to be used as your triple check. 

Put your cam gear at TDC and then check the crank gear timing. Let me know how many teeth you're off.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

liloldbie said:


> There are two distinct marks in which you should time your motor by. One on the valve cover matching with a mark on the cam gear and the other on the lower timing belt cover with a matching mark on the harmonic balancer.


 this


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

My engine also didn't have a mark on the flywheel, but the lower harmonic pulley does - line this up with the indentation on the lower cover - Thats then Cylinder 1 TDC. 

Here's a photo showing the marks (i've highlighted them with red arrows) - 










Forget about counting teeth - if the lines line up then turn the engine round and check they still line up. 

If you want to check the camshaft timing here's a photo of that - 










There should be 16 rollers of the cam chain between the marks. 

Hope this helps.


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## liloldbie (Jun 23, 2007)

The first photo you posted clearly shows your timing is off.


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

It was just a photo i used from my build thread to show location of timing marks for the OP. 
It was once i had turned it round a couple of times, i just hadn't returned it fully to the tdc position, when the lower one lines up so does the camshaft pulley... It looks of but it's the angle of the photo. 

I have also turned the manual tensioner round the right way, just incase anybody spots that too.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

If this cam chain is timed properly, would someone please tell me why my marks aren't counting 16? I need to check my timing sometime this week and I would like to be better educated on how to count this. 

Thanks!


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

Grahams81 said:


> It was just a photo i used from my build thread to show location of timing marks for the OP.
> It was once i had turned it round a couple of times, i just hadn't returned it fully to the tdc position, when the lower one lines up so does the camshaft pulley... It looks of but it's the angle of the photo.
> 
> I have also turned the manual tensioner round the right way, just incase anybody spots that too.


 Better fix the cam timing as well... 
Maybe you shouldn't be giving advice, with pictures like that it's clear you have no idea what you are doing/talking about. If you insist on posting pictures and giving advice, at least make sure you're posting pictures of a motor done right... 

16 rollers, it's not that hard, really 
:wave:


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

groggory said:


> If this cam chain is timed properly, would someone please tell me why my marks aren't counting 16? I need to check my timing sometime this week and I would like to be better educated on how to count this.
> 
> Thanks!


 Again it's the angle of the photo, here i have edited this photo to show better - 












jbutlertelecom said:


> Better fix the cam timing as well...
> Maybe you shouldn't be giving advice, with pictures like that it's clear you have no idea what you are doing/talking about. If you insist on posting pictures and giving advice, at least make sure you're posting pictures of a motor done right...
> 
> 16 rollers, it's not that hard, really
> :wave:


 See the above picture and just incase you still can't count here's a little photo showing which tooth on the sprocket to start from - 










And your right it's not that hard..... really. 

Maybe i shouldn't try and help out people - by posting pictures / experience again on this forum if knobs like yourself try and jump on people trying to help, bet you feel like a right c0ck now don't ya !!!!!!!


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Grahams81 said:


> Again it's the angle of the photo, here i have edited this photo to show better -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't calling you out. I just wasn't counting 16 when I counted myself and I wanted some help counting it properly. As I said, I am going to check my timing sometime this week and I knew this would be helpful.


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

groggory said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't calling you out. I just wasn't counting 16 when I counted myself and I wanted some help counting it properly. As I said, I am going to check my timing sometime this week and I knew this would be helpful.


 That's no problem mate, just jbutlertelecom is an obvious keyboard warrior..... i thought there was no need for his little outburst.


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

Grahams81 said:


> That's no problem mate, just jbutlertelecom is an obvious keyboard warrior..... i thought there was no need for his little outburst.


 Lol, I'd say it's YOU who is bent and has become the "keyboard warrior" as you say I have... You may not like the harsh criticism but it sure beats misleading other beginners who come here for GOOD and CONCISE information in order to PROPERLY fix their engines. When you post pictures from weird angles (who other more experienced people here have ALREADY noticed) and obvious errors (as pointed out by yourself even) you do this forum and yourself a great disservice. Don't be lazy and post incorrectly installed parts on an engine and then follow it up with "do this, just like I did in these pictures". 

Now, go pout somewhere else... 

One more thing, thank you for fixing the picture and adding more clarification to the proper way to time the cams. I am SURE this will come in handy for the many thousands of posts the forums see on the code for cam advanced/retarded or other misalignment issues. 
Seriously, you have contributed useful information to this post, so congratulate yourself, but remember; without someone calling you out, it would/could have been ugly for someone else. 
You might want to put a check on that aggression, it doesn't suit you, mate.


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## STOICH (Jun 21, 2010)

Sorry, but isn't this like the second or third time you've claimed someones cam timing was off when it truly wasn't? If the angle is bad, why even comment about how it may or may not be in time? 

Honestly, the original image isn't hard at all to count 16 rollers...but that's just me, with no fancy certs. 

OP: Any updates?


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

STOICH said:


> Sorry, but isn't this like the second or third time you've claimed someones cam timing was off when it truly wasn't? If the angle is bad, why even comment about how it may or may not be in time?
> 
> Honestly, the original image isn't hard at all to count 16 rollers...but that's just me, with no fancy certs.
> 
> OP: Any updates?


 I never said anyones cam timing is off in this post. You obviously didn't read what I said and view the original pictures. Pictures that OTHERS had questions as to the validity to whether they were in time or not. I only posted to remind others the importance of NOT POSTING PICTURES THAT COULD BE MISLEASDING for the others who come into this forum without the knowledge that SOME of the people who frequent the forums have already. 
There were other errors too, like having the manual tensioner on upside down, I felt it was a lazy attempt (at best) to offer sudo-help with the OP's original post and subsequent replies. Had I not called him out the errors would have been left in place, thus misleading other less experienced people with false information. 


Wow, you sure you're not trying to e-thug the wrong person here?


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

jbutlertelecom said:


> I never said anyones cam timing is off in this post. You obviously didn't read what I said and view the original pictures. Pictures that OTHERS had questions as to the validity to whether they were in time or not. I only posted to remind others the importance of NOT POSTING PICTURES THAT COULD BE MISLEASDING for the others who come into this forum without the knowledge that SOME of the people who frequent the forums have already.
> There were other errors too, like having the manual tensioner on upside down, I felt it was a lazy attempt (at best) to offer sudo-help with the OP's original post and subsequent replies. Had I not called him out the errors would have been left in place, thus misleading other less experienced people with false information.
> 
> 
> Wow, you sure you're not trying to e-thug the wrong person here?


 I haven't changed any of the pics that i originally posted, i simply posted another picture of the cam chain from inline with both cams. 
To be fair i understand the comments on not posting pictures that could mislead others, sorry if anybody was confused. 

When i originally posted the two pictures i was simply highlighting the position of the reference marks to check Cambelt alignment, like what the OP looking for. 

And i must admit i did put the IE manual tensioner on wrong in the absence of instructions - but if you look above in earlier posts i did mention that. 

And as for a lazy attempt at help..... well at least i tried to show the location of the timing reference marks. 

And you may try and cry on about e-thugs but it was your first post in this thread that wound me and obviously others up - claiming i don't know what I'm doing or talking about :screwy: 

I'm no "certified mechanic" just a humble engineer, so hopefully i'll be able to help in the future........ 

Anyway i hope the OP manages to sort his issues out


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

groggory said:


> If this cam chain is timed properly, would someone please tell me why my marks aren't counting 16? I need to check my timing sometime this week and I would like to be better educated on how to count this.
> 
> Thanks!


 is comment this for serious? lawl.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Rac_337 said:


> is comment this for serious? lawl.


 engrish?


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## jbutlertelecom (Aug 12, 2009)

Grahams81 said:


> I haven't changed any of the pics that i originally posted, i simply posted another picture of the cam chain from inline with both cams.
> To be fair i understand the comments on not posting pictures that could mislead others, sorry if anybody was confused.
> 
> When i originally posted the two pictures i was simply highlighting the position of the reference marks to check Cambelt alignment, like what the OP looking for.
> ...


 :thumbup: 

Thank you for the clarification. I hope you understand that I was initially being sarcastic in my first post. No hard feelings, just trying to help EVERYONE get the BEST CORRECT information possible.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

groggory said:


> engrish?


 was that a serious question originally? didn't know if you were being sarcastic. 

if so then, start 1 cog to the left and it will work.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

to the op: 

First, make sure your exhaust cam timing gear is on the mark with the valve cover, or that your exhaust cam lines up with the triangle on the cam cap. 

get a long probe of some sort (i use tig filler rod. if you have anything long and straight it will work). Clean your "probe" first and make sure there is no dirt on it. take the #1 plug out, put your probe gently into the cylinder so it rests on the piston, then bring that piston to TDC by turning the crank pulley CLOCKWISE. you will know its at TDC when it stops moving. you want it right at that point where any small motion of the crank will not cause the probe to move. now with the exhaust cam on the money and the #1 pistion at tdc, you know its in time. (or out of time lol) 

you must have NO slack coming FROM the crank timing pulley to the exhaust cam gear. I cant stress this enough and I believe this is where you went wrong. if its off a tooth at this stage, the tensioner will cause it to be out of time when you pull the pin or tension the belt, but it could still appear to be in time with the marks that you made on the belt. I've had it happen before. 

if your exhaust cam gear seems like it is retarded counter-clockwise by half a tooth, move it forward and not backwards. if you move it backwards, it wont work. sometimes the cam gear mark does not always fall inline with the mark on the valve cover. 

after i get to this stage i like to put a zip tie around my cam gear and tbelt to prevent it from moving or slipping. after you do this it is safe to tension the belt. rotate the engine by hand with the probe still on the piston and check that TDC and the cam gear mark correspond as it should. 

after these steps are complete, you can check your intake cam timing and for 16 rollers like the vw diagram shows above. I highly doubt you're cam chain jumped teeth. you usually need to take the cam out for this to even happen or have a tensioner/vvt unit fail. but to check, put your piston back to TDC with the probe. you're EXHAUST cam should line up EXACTLY with the triangle on the cam cap. the INTAKE cam should be slightly advanced IN FRONT of the triangle on the cam cap. use 16 rollers as a double check. 

hope this helps.


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

liloldbie said:


> This makes me believe you need to rebuild your head now as your timing is probably off about 2 or 3 teeth.
> 
> There are two distinct marks in which you should time your motor by. One on the valve cover matching with a mark on the cam gear and the other on the lower timing belt cover with a matching mark on the harmonic balancer. Those are the only two marks you should be using. The flywheel is to be used as your triple check.
> 
> Put your cam gear at TDC and then check the crank gear timing. Let me know how many teeth you're off.


 I went out again to check it your way with the Crank pulley and the Cam gear and the timing is spot on. Not one teeth off actually. 

Trying to find a cam Shaft sensor. If that is the problem, it was definitely the worst time for it to go out, during the timing belt job. 

I am off to school and left the car back home at the parents so I wont be working on it for some time since I don't plan on going back home. 

I greatly appreciate EVERYONE's help! Thanks for the lol's too. haha 

OH OH OH 

Another thing, my P0011 went away, but now have the infamous P0341. Wondering since both of those are on the same pigtail, if something electrical could be going on with the wiring itself... I suck at electrical so wouldn't know where to even begin.


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

Rac_337 said:


> to the op:
> 
> First, make sure your exhaust cam timing gear is on the mark with the valve cover, or that your exhaust cam lines up with the triangle on the cam cap.
> 
> ...


 Great reply, I really appreciate it. That's actually how I did it. I tested it with 2 extensions to check for the first piston to be TDC and everything lines up perfectly. Even after I limped it home 15 miles, I checked it again today and no teeth were jumped from where I first released the timing belt tensioner. 

I said, maybe I am doing it wrong with that, so I did the 68 teeth count on the belt, and today I did the crank pulley TDC to the Cam gear TDC and it all lined up perfectly as well.


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## STOICH (Jun 21, 2010)

I'd say change the camshaft sensor if you are mechanically in time.


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

STOICH said:


> I'd say change the camshaft sensor if you are mechanically in time.


 Okie dokie, I will try that this weekend coming up when I go back home. I will update the thread when I get to try that this weekend coming up.


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

2 different cam sensors and still won't run. 

BLEHHHH


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## 87vr6 (Jan 17, 2002)

Two things I would do at this point. First is to take off the valve cover, push down on the Chain tensioner plunger... If it's easy to push down and it doesn't come back up, there's your problem. Second is to do a compression test and pray for good results...


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## jedge1.8t (Jan 27, 2012)

when you put the timing belt on you have to retard the crank very slightly, once the belt gets fitted it should fit and be in time, as long as a couple rotations you have cam and crank lined up. 

you wont hit valves on 2 or maybe even 3 teeth off. but it will run very rough


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

If one thing I've learned about my car is that what RARELY happens to other people, it happens to me. GREAT!* 

The tab that the cam gear has to spin the cam, snapped off the gear. Even though it was in time, the gear just spun on cam and didn't spin the actual cam. :-/* 

So that's like a snapped belt. Cam stays in place while the crank repeatedly moves. Woooooo head build time? AGAIN????? Engine build only has 7k miles since I put in the rods for BT and rebuilt everything else while I was in there. 

The reason I changed the belt was because the contitech was shredding at 6k miles. :-/


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Frank-i-e said:


> If one thing I've learned about my car is that what RARELY happens to other people, it happens to me. GREAT!*
> 
> The tab that the cam gear has to spin the cam, snapped off the gear. Even though it was in time, the gear just spun on cam and didn't spin the actual cam. :-/*
> 
> ...


 If it helps you... That happened to me too

FYI, I replaced the stock cam gear with the autotech vernier peg one

Sorry man, that sucks


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

groggory said:


> If it helps you... That happened to me too
> 
> FYI, I replaced the stock cam gear with the autotech vernier peg one
> 
> Sorry man, that sucks


 
So you had bent valves I assume as well? What are the chances of that happening, I thought it would be a rare occurance. Lol crazy you had this happen also.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Bad tensioner shoe broke. Wedged between the cam chain and cam gear. Locked up the head. Caused the key way to shear. Happened on startup. Bent 4 valves


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

groggory said:


> Bad tensioner shoe broke. Wedged between the cam chain and cam gear. Locked up the head. Caused the key way to shear. Happened on startup. Bent 4 valves


 Man, that is no good! I don't know what caused mine.


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)




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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

Frank-i-e said:


>


 Only one time I have ever seen that happen: 
The guy torqued the cam caps to 110nm not 11nm.. oops 
The cams didnt turn and ended up breaking the keyway off and messing up the cam.


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

​


Slimjimmn said:


> The guy torqued the cam caps to 110nm not 11nm.. oops


 into aluminum? :facepalm: :laugh:


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

Yeah I did the 74ft-lbs that the bentley manual recommended for this one as well as the new one I put on.


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

Rac_337 said:


> ​
> into aluminum? :facepalm: :laugh:


yup, the caps that hold the cams to the head. 
His bently manual also said 110ft/lbs not in/lbs lol. Good job there

74ft/lbs is way too much for a cam gear to camshaft also, I think its like 55nm which is like 46ft/lbs or something


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## Frank-i-e (Nov 29, 2010)

Slimjimmn said:


> yup, the caps that hold the cams to the head.
> His bently manual also said 110ft/lbs not in/lbs lol. Good job there
> 
> 74ft/lbs is way too much for a cam gear to camshaft also, I think its like 55nm which is like 46ft/lbs or something


See, I thought so too but I went with the Bentley manual anyways since "What do I know". Literally what I said. haha.


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## Audi Tony (Jul 27, 2011)

I've seen three or four of these cam gears like that. Usually on Passats/A4's, due to sludge issues. Locks up the cam and strips/breaks the key. 

Hopefully you find minimal damage in the engine and get it back on the road.

Tony


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

When I windowed my motor my cam gear looked like that.

Also, since you have the stuff of, I'd check the crank cog to make sure nothing happened to it. I rebuilt a motor and the keyway on the cog broke, kept throwing the same code and I confirmed it when I pulled it off. I was able to move the crank gear/pulley slightly by hand, that's how I figured it out.


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

Frank-i-e said:


> So that's like a snapped belt. Cam stays in place while the crank repeatedly moves. Woooooo head build time? AGAIN????? Engine build only has 7k miles since I put in the rods for BT and rebuilt everything else while I was in there.
> 
> The reason I changed the belt was because the contitech was shredding at 6k miles. :-/


It was shredding the belt at 6k miles because something is/was going on with the cams. Better find out what was the real cause & fix it, or it will keep happening.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

What throws ME off with counting is that one cam mark (square) lines up with a TOOTH, the other with a VALLEY (on 1.8T and bank 1 on V6).

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/images/thumb/1/16/Cam_timing_chains.gif/721px-Cam_timing_chains.gif


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