# Why doesnt VW make the Beetle slimmer, skinnier, and sportier to look like the 911?



## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

obviously the Beetle looks like a fatter slower 911. Ferdinand Porsche created VW. so why doesnt VW make the Beetle look slimmer skinnier and sportier to look like a 911 variant, and keep the 2.0 tsi. it would sell like hot cakes. VW could recoup its losses quickly from the diesel fine. also making the Beetle skinnier and sportier like a 911 would get men to buy the Beetle not just women. right now its a chick car. VW would sell millions. why dont they do this? turn the Beetle into a $20k 911 almost-lookalike. not everyone can afford Ferdinand Porsches $90k 911. the Volk need a cheaper version! thanks VW!










i can picture it right now........

*The Beetle 2 (2020)

- 2.0 T engine with 4motion or the R400 394hp engine
- slimmer body
- lower roof
- 19-20 inch rims 
- 255 tires
- circular LED headlights
- skinny LED tail lights
- MSRP starting at $29,850 base model Beetle 
- Top end model is the Beetle R MSRP $45, 790*

Does Volkswagen want to MAKE MONEY? Because THAT is how you MAKE MONEY! Good Luck VW! :wave:

*Introducing the 2020 Beetle R:*


----------



## Rottgrub (Dec 5, 2016)

VolkswagenFanatic said:


> obviously the Beetle looks like a fatter slower 911. Ferdinand Porsche created VW. so why doesnt VW make the Beetle look slimmer skinnier and sportier to look like a 911 variant, and keep the 2.0 tsi. it would sell like hot cakes. VW could recoup its losses quickly from the diesel fine. also making the Beetle skinnier and sportier like a 911 would get men to buy the Beetle not just women. right now its a chick car. VW would sell millions. why dont they do this? turn the Beetle into a $20k 911 almost-lookalike. not everyone can afford Ferdinand Porsches $90k 911. the Volk need a cheaper version! thanks VW!


I don't really get it when people perpetuate this idea that the current Beetle is a "chick car". The original beetle had no gender stigma, but since the "New Beetle" was marketed to women for a few years, all Beetles are now chick cars? The Ford Mustang was originally marketed as a car for secretaries, yet you don't see people getting their panties in a twist about Mustangs being "chick cars". The current Beetle is basically a MK6 GTI with an upgraded interior. Was the MK6 GTI a chick car? How about the MK7? Honestly, all the GTIs look like crushed shoe boxes to me. 

I'm 6' tall with very wide shoulders, and find that the current Beetle is one of the few sporty compacts with sufficient shoulder and head room for big guys. I tried to get into the current GTI the other day, and felt like I was in a car made for children. My shoulder was pressed in so far by the door and B-pillar that I was halfway into the passenger seat. Even with my seat cranked all the way down, my head still hit the sunroof. I don't have any of these problems with the current Beetle. 

If you want a car made for small people, just buy one of the ones that cater to that market. Throw a turbo on an FRS/BRZ or 370z if you want small and sporty. Want a tiny convertible? Grab a Miata or a Fiat 500 Abarth. Oh, and to be fair, compared to the Porsche 911, any car selling for under $40k is going to look clunky and awkward in comparison.

I'm all for a cheaper 911, but how about we make it bigger and taller so it's more comfortable? We could make it a six seater so we can bring the whole family to track day! Add in self driving mechanics, lane departure sensors, drive by wire, and it'll be perfect! A perfect abomination that isn't a 911 anymore. The moral? Don't "fix" a car that isn't broken. 

As for VW sales, people aren't buying VW cars for a lot of reasons (lies, crap warranty, etc), but the main reason is that you can buy a similar car from almost any other brand and get more for your money.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

The Audi TT is pretty much the "sportier" Beetle with "more testosterone" and a higher price tag. Somewhat reminiscent of a 911, actually. Available as a 4 seat coupe, or 2 seat 'vert. 2.0TSI with AWD or FWD, and various trims from mild to wild.










http://www.caradvice.com.au/128918/volkswagen-beetle-compared-with-porsche-911-and-audi-tt/


----------



## Rottgrub (Dec 5, 2016)

Dan00Hawk said:


> The Audi TT is pretty much the "sportier" Beetle with "more testosterone" and a higher price tag. Somewhat reminiscent of a 911, actually. Available as a 4 seat coupe, or 2 seat 'vert. 2.0TSI with* AWD *or FWD, and various trims from mild to wild.


Agreed. The TT is a nice car, and much more in line with a "cheaper" Porsche. Also, if something needed changing, it's the lack of AWD (and MQB platform, really) in the Beetle. Of course, if they did that, it might start cutting into GTI and Audi sales numbers. Can't have that. :laugh:


----------



## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

the TT looks absolutely nothing like a Beetle or a 911. the TT is just a coupe like them. the front and back look nothing like a Beetle/911

The Beetle Reboot needs a lower roof, slimmer body, sportier bumpers and sideskirts, wider tires, thinner LED tail light design, keep the round LED headlights, add 4motion, 2.0tsi which makes it a cheaper 911 Turbo awd for the Volk.

if VW does this they will sell Beetles like hotcakes. does VW want to make millions? Then DO IT VW. 

start at the drawing board and Re-Design the sportier Beetle Reboot. Ferdinand Porsche founded VW, so go back to your Porsche roots.


----------



## domdil (May 19, 2008)

VW will never do a 2.0T AWD Beetle..theres not enough of a market for it. Beetle sales are already down 30% over last year, not really confidence inspiring for VW to release a $35-40K Beetle...it sounds like a good idea in theory but you just know if they did that and released it, most people would then complain about how its too expensive and why would you just buy a golf R and get more refinement and more space. I've been working with VW since 2010 and I can tell you that I think I've had MAYBE a handful of people ask why there is no AWD Beetle.

I would like to add that I love the way the Beetle looks and one of my fave VW's of recent years was the 2.0T DSG Sportline. I do not see it as a "chick" car.


----------



## Rottgrub (Dec 5, 2016)

The sad truth is, the number of people who want fun and fast cars are the vast minority. Last numbers I saw, Coupes were what, 3%, of all cars sold? Convertibles sitting at 1%? 

Meanwhile, something like 45% of vehicles sold are soccer mom/pedo vans*; 35% sedans; and 15% trucks. I'm curious how much of the sedans are rental fleet sales as well.

* I refuse to call them "Sport Utility" anything. They ain't sporty, and they ain't utility. They are just big, waddling and crappy.


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

VolkswagenFanatic said:


> the TT looks absolutely nothing like a Beetle or a 911. the TT is just a coupe like them. the front and back look nothing like a Beetle/911
> 
> The Beetle Reboot needs a lower roof, slimmer body, sportier bumpers and sideskirts, wider tires, thinner LED tail light design, keep the round LED headlights, add 4motion, 2.0tsi which makes it a cheaper 911 Turbo awd for the Volk.
> 
> ...


The article I posted indicated the similarity of the TT/Beetle/911. Maybe you didn't read the link. Of course, they don't look identical, as the Audi follows that brands design cues. But the side profile does bear a resemblance, even if you don't agree. Regardless, the fact remains that the TT is nearly the exact car you are asking them to build ("_Lower roof, slimmer, sportier bumper and skirts, wider tires, thinner LED tails, 4 motion/quattro, 2.0tsi"_), aside from having round headlights.









It's great that YOU would buy a revised Beetle that fits what YOU want. But apparently the general marketplace does not agree. Rottgrub nailed it by stating how many consumers are more in the market for larger utility type vehicles such as crossovers. Niche cars like the Beetle, Mini, Miata, etc... just don't have enough demand, certainly not enough to _"sell millions"_ as you said in your first post, unless it's over the course of 30+ years. In fact, from 1998 to present, Beetles have sold about 740,000 vehicles. VW has been considering killing off the Beetle entirely, actually. http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2017/1/...-Volkswagen-Beetle-May-Be-Killed-Off-7737478/

Porsche already has a less expensive 911 styled car in the Cayman and the Boxster. Still more than my Beetle budget would allow, but it does exist for those not able to pay 911 prices. Gently used Boxters and Caymans are actually available for under $30k, which does fit those on a Beetle type budget. 

Having a VW knockoff that looks too much like a Porsche would only serve to devalue the Porsche brand, and you can't realistically expect them to do that. So expect a Beetle to look like a Beetle, a TT to look like an Audi, and a Porsche to look like a Porsche.


----------



## Rottgrub (Dec 5, 2016)

Dan00Hawk said:


> So expect a Beetle to look like a Beetle, a TT to look like an Audi, and a Porsche to look like a Porsche.


...and the GTI to look like a crushed shoebox. :laugh:


----------



## Rottgrub (Dec 5, 2016)

Rottgrub said:


> ...and the GTI to look like a crushed shoebox. :laugh:


That said, why doesn't VW bring the Scirocco to the US and dump the GTI? Anyone know?


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

Rottgrub said:


> That said, why doesn't VW bring the Scirocco to the US and dump the GTI? Anyone know?


My thoughts are that the manufacturers feel like the "entry level performance" (4 cylinder turbo) market in the US mostly favors a 4 door instead of 2 doors. Note how Ford has a 2 door Focus ST and Fiesta ST in Europe, but only offers the 4 door version in the US. GTI 4 doors also seem more plentiful than in the past. So perhaps VW believes the possibly limited sales market doesn't justify the expense of certifying the Scirroco for the USA. A Scirocco would likely steal sales from other would be GTI sales, and not lead to enough of an overall increase in market share. 

For example, let's say you were deciding between a BRZ/FRS, Focus ST, Civic Si, Cooper S, GTI, or Scirocco, and had decided you liked the Scirocco best overall. Chances are, the GTI was a close second, with styling being the main difference. Now, take away the availability of the Scirocco, and you'd still probably choose the GTI over the competitors. I suppose the Scirocco does well enough in Europe to justify its existence, but it doesn't make the accountants feel good enough to bring it to the States.


----------



## Rottgrub (Dec 5, 2016)

I can see that. The GTI is a nice ride. Drives great, but I just hate the boring lines of the thing. Maybe it's just me, but if they made a GTI with the curves and style of the Scirocco, I think they'd have a winner. 

As for the 4-door thing, it hadn't occurred to me, but I think you're onto something there. My last car was a Hyundai Veloster Turbo (excellent cheap fun car. miss it.), and I think the most interesting design choice was having three doors. One large driver door for comfort, and two smaller passenger doors for convenience of loading and unloading passengers and junk from the back seat. Hatch was only for big items, or larger shopping runs.


----------



## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

the Beetle shouldve been slimmed down from the start. remove those fat doors, lower the roof line and flatten it out more, blend the shoulders into the back more, fix up those ugly tail lights, keep the round headlights, and youve got a winner. i didnt say copy the Porsche 911 100%, take your inspiration from it and refine the Beetle in the imagination of Ferdinand Porsche. they would sell the 2.0 AWD Beetle Reboot like hot cakes. they would sell millions if priced right. it would be the new GTI.

but i think VW doesnt care and is now focusing on the "Atlas Grand Cherokee" instead. if they did care they would take the Beetle and head back to the drawing board and think, hmmm how would Ferdinand Porsche re-design this..............hmmmmm


----------



## Yogibearal (Apr 17, 2014)

VolkswagenFanatic said:


> obviously the Beetle looks like a fatter slower 911. Ferdinand Porsche created VW. so why doesnt VW make the Beetle look slimmer skinnier and sportier to look like a 911 variant, and keep the 2.0 tsi. it would sell like hot cakes. VW could recoup its losses quickly from the diesel fine. also making the Beetle skinnier and sportier like a 911 would get men to buy the Beetle not just women. right now its a chick car. VW would sell millions. why dont they do this? turn the Beetle into a $20k 911 almost-lookalike. not everyone can afford Ferdinand Porsches $90k 911. the Volk need a cheaper version! thanks VW!


LOL  what you are describing is a revival of the Karmann Ghia :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:. I think the Beetle is good the way it is save for the front engine layout  Had wonderful memories in a white convertible 1970's beetle in California. The current beetle is what it is. Definitely not a chick car. Just look online for the hard core modifiers. The previous gen really was kind of a chick car, but VW specifically made it more masculine. I love mine, but unfortunately it's a TDI and is going back to VW. They are paying us too much not to turn it back in. Basically driving it for 3 years for pennies.


----------



## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

Yogibearal said:


> LOL  what you are describing is a revival of the Karmann Ghia :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:. I think the Beetle is good the way it is save for the front engine layout  Had wonderful memories in a white convertible 1970's beetle in California. The current beetle is what it is. Definitely not a chick car. Just look online for the hard core modifiers. * The previous gen really was kind of a chick car*, but VW specifically made it more masculine. I love mine, but unfortunately it's a TDI and is going back to VW. They are paying us too much not to turn it back in. Basically driving it for 3 years for pennies.


so......the previous gen beetle was a chick car, but the slightly updated beetle is not a chick car?


----------



## BevHillsTrainer (Feb 1, 2015)

Yep, the previous bug was tiny. At 6'3" I love the height and size of the turbo interior, all of the other cars in this range felt claustrophobic. The beetle has always been a "round" kind of car, not aggressive. It's fun (and when I tune it more fun), roomy and has style with a long history.


----------



## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

if Volkswagen representatives want to make money fast since the Dieselgate fine was huge, the way is to make the Beetle into a $30 911 2.0T clone.

it will sell like hotcakes. do you VW reps want to recouperate your losses? well then, go back to the drawing board and redesign your Beetle to be slimmer, sportier, with a price that appeals to everyone. guaranteed Volkswagen would make millions in profits from this.

i can picture it right now........

The Beetle 2

- 2.0 T engine with 4motion or the R400 394hp engine
- slimmer body
- lower roof
- 19 inch rims 
- 255 tires
- circular headlights
- skinny tail lights
- MSRP starting at $29,850 base model Beetle 
- Top end model is the Beetle R MSRP $45, 790

Does Volkswagen want to MAKE MONEY? Because THAT is how you MAKE MONEY! Good Luck VW! :wave:


----------



## avatr (May 9, 2017)

who wants a Porsche clone when you can have a tribute to the most iconic car from the 50s, 60s, and 70s? at least that's why I bought mine, takes me back to a happier, hippier place. I could have bought a Porsche and tried to look like every other 30 something metrosexual.


----------



## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

avatr said:


> who wants a Porsche clone when you can have a tribute to the most iconic car from the 50s, 60s, and 70s? at least that's why I bought mine, takes me back to a happier, hippier place. I could have bought a Porsche and tried to look like every other 30 something metrosexual.


not a total clone, but copy it enough just to remind everyone that Ferdinand Porsche created Volkswagen


----------



## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

VolkswagenFanatic said:


> if Volkswagen representatives want to make money fast since the Dieselgate fine was huge, the way is to make the Beetle into a $30 911 2.0T clone.
> 
> it will sell like hotcakes. do you VW reps want to recouperate your losses? well then, go back to the drawing board and redesign your Beetle to be slimmer, sportier, with a price that appeals to everyone. guaranteed Volkswagen would make millions in profits from this.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you should try working for VW. I can't believe none of their people haven't thought of this yet. Perhaps you could head to Wolfsburg and tell them how you "guarantee them millions in profit" from a niche vehicle. Perhaps they will be a captive audience especially when they just spent BILLIONS in fines. 

Do you understand why SUVs, midsize sedans, and pickup trucks continue to be the most popular vehicles? A small sports/sporty car does not "sell like hotcakes" (why have you used that phrase 4 distinct times? LMAO ) in today's market... The demand is simply NOT there. You, me, and a small percentage of enthusiasts would like a car like that, but that's simply not enough. 

Sorry, but even hot cakes don't "sell like hotcakes" anymore... :laugh:


----------



## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

Dan00Hawk said:


> Sounds like you should try working for VW. I can't believe none of their people haven't thought of this yet. Perhaps you could head to Wolfsburg and tell them how you "guarantee them millions in profit" from a niche vehicle. Perhaps they will be a captive audience especially when they just spent BILLIONS in fines.
> 
> Do you understand why SUVs, midsize sedans, and pickup trucks continue to be the most popular vehicles? A small sports/sporty car does not "sell like hotcakes" (why have you used that phrase 4 distinct times? LMAO ) in today's market... The demand is simply NOT there. You, me, and a small percentage of enthusiasts would like a car like that, but that's simply not enough.
> 
> Sorry, but even hot cakes don't "sell like hotcakes" anymore... :laugh:


it will sell like Hot Cakes, in Germany Hot Cakes are called Apple Strudel. nothing sells out faster than fresh baked Apple Strudel!

This car is that delicious german Apple Strudel!


----------



## Meet the Beetles (Aug 25, 2015)

I think VW should keep the Beetle looking like a Beetle. I’d love to see them make a 4 door version with a big roomy back seat and generous trunk size while totally retaining the round look of a classic Beetle. Make that car and I’ll buy one.


----------



## g-man_ae (Jun 20, 2001)

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/vw-mulls-dropping-scirocco-beetle/

I suppose this means we need to either restore or replace the wife's Beetle, and do so sooner rather than later.










VW needed to base the Beetle on a smaller platform (e.g. Polo/A0 chassis), to go up against the Mini and Fiat 500.

http://www.vwvortex.com/features/columns/from-the-armchair-the-beetle-enigma/

Re-using an old Golf platform saved money but otherwise yields nothing more than a less practical, harder-to-maintain Golf. VW doesn't need another Golf. The Beetle needs to be compellingly unique, or scrapped otherwise.


----------

