# CIS-E turbo?



## vdub87_16v (Aug 1, 2004)

ok here is the deal. i have just bought a Garrett T3T4 turbo. i have the manifold, turbo, waste gate, and oil lines. what all else will i need to do is sett up on a CIS-E fuel injection 16v? please help me!!!!!!!!!


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## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdub87_16v)*

....so did you really get a turbo or are you just saying that








i just want to make sure considering a month ago you said your car was getting painted 

_Quote, originally posted by *vdub87_16v* »_the car is in the paint shop right now and looking at getting it out in a week. 



_Modified by ihaveavr6 at 7:55 AM 12-28-2004_


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## idt512 (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (ihaveavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ihaveavr6* »_....so did you really get a turbo or are you just saying that








i just want to make sure considering a month ago you said your car was getting painted 

I dont see why you cant go buy a turbo while your car is in a shop


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## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (idt512)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idt512* »_
I dont see why you cant go buy a turbo while your car is in a shop
















the thing is......his car is not in the shop. so i am questioning the fact that he says he bought a turbo.


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## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

iam putting a t3/t4e on my cis-e.... get a msd and a fuel enruchment moduel... you can find um for like 50-100 bucks


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (86 gti turbo nitrus)*

You are definatly going to need more fuel than that module.


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## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

what do u recommend?


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdub87_16v)*

Ok, Ok, for all you turbo cis-e guys this is all you need to do, so listen up:
1) A turbo needs a lot more fuel, at different rpm's than a fuel enrichment mod. So you will have to give mega-squirt, or sds a call and get on of there fueling kits that gives you more fuel at higher rpm ranges progressively. These kits are very expensive, and run about $1000 to $2000, but they are worth every penny!
2) If you are a DIY guy then you can fabricate something to increase your fueling at rasied rpm ranges! Im not a DIY, but there are people who have done this on this site that can help, or stir you in the right direction. Do defferent searches in the search engine here to find out more info on building your own "micro fueler" using the 5th injector already in most VW's now.
3) There is a guy on VWvortex named "stevelangford" he makes, and designes turbo kits for cis, and cis-e 1.8 8V, and 16V vw's. He even sells with his kits the micro fueler, and brain box needed to install the turbo, and have it running right! He is very resonable $$$$. At the bottom of my thread there are a few pics of the turbo kit I bought from him for my 85 GTI with cis-e. he is a good guy, and a welth of knowleage on cis, cis-e turbos, but DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE IM'ing HIM!!!!
Turboing a VW is not just bolting up a turbo mani., and slapping a T3 on top of it, and letting her go. There is a WHOLE lot more involved. Turbos dont work well with some cam set-ups, A 1986 GTI's compression is too high for a turbo set-up 10.5:1 will blow up the motor without racing gas, or lowering the compression down to 8.5:1. Once the turbo is installed, you have to re-tune the fueling side because it must be altered. Your trans, is now suspect because of increased torque, so start stocking up, or moding it to hold the increased power. These are just a few thing you will need to consider, or do while, or after your turbo is installed.

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IM me, or email, or post here with anymore questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*

I suggest getting a MSD BTM to cut back timing and an EIC (extra injector controller)


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## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

iam about to install the msd on my cis-e turbo


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (86 gti turbo nitrus)*

my opinion:
1. fuel enrichment module's(cold start relay overide) is ghetto
2. do MORE research b4 you "invest" in a langford "kit."








3. AIC/EIC from HKS and SDS are known to make pretty good powa...ask killa.
word
Jason


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## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

or go digi-1


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: (86 gti turbo nitrus)*

I did a lot of research, and for the $$$ you cant beat what he offers. Mega squirt, SDS, and Digi 1, Im sure are all better set-ups, but for what your going to pay $$$ plus installation ease, stevelangford kits are the cheapest for the $$$. Eventually Im going SDS myself 2-3 years down the road, but to get it running 15PSI safely without re-wiring almost my whole car, because I still dont know half of what you gurus on here know I went stevelangford, and I suggest you look at what he offers.


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## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

...


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## vdub87_16v (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (ihaveavr6)*









there is my turbo in the back of my explorer dick, and the car was only in the shop for an estimate for the paint shaving and other mods.


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## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdub87_16v)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and dont get mad at me for what you said, you wernt very clear about the estimate part. good luck with the project and try and give a brother a call sometime


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## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (ihaveavr6)*

just for good measure you said your car was in the paint shop from 9-28 to 11-8 and by the 28th it only had a week left.so i take it had been in the shop before the 28th







you can see where i got confused 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1609848
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1674349


_Modified by ihaveavr6 at 7:33 PM 1-22-2005_


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (ihaveavr6)*

get this stupid ass girly fight out of the f/i forum.
a picture of a turbo doesn't mean $hit.
bye...
Jason


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## vdub87_16v (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (ihaveavr6)*

its cool man. i wanna come up there and visit! i have now $ its all in the car right now. i need to put some more hours in and get some more money. spring break, me and dude named Johny are going to Alabama to make some grain wiskey at my uncle's land haha i even have the money then.


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## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdub87_16v)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by ihaveavr6 at 2:19 AM 1-23-2005_


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## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (ihaveavr6)*

useless thread http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (zornig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zornig* »_useless thread http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

dito


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*


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What manifold is that? EIP or a homemade one?
Also split second has a good AIC for not to much.


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_

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What manifold is that? EIP or a homemade one?
Also split second has a good AIC for not to much.


Thanks for pulling us back to the correct reason we are all here. Lets keep the "I got, you got" fighting to IM'ing if its that neccessary, and sometimes it is. On this posting lets try to learn more about cis, cis-e turboing, OK? Deal? cool....
The manifold I was told is a turbo diasel mani. cut down and re-welded. I've seen a few on ebay, and vortex for sale. This one came with stage 3 kit I ordered from stevelanford. Im sure there are better kits out there than stevelangford, and there are guys on here that can whip there own kit up in about an hour out of a paper clip, and a role of towlet paper, but for the dumb folks, like myself who really are just learning how turbos work on VW's, and learning by trial and error with installing and stuff like that, the stevelangford kit is a 95% complete, easy to do, with instructions for very little $$$$. The only thing I have to do is lower the compression, fab my downpipe, and fab my intercooler piping. Thats it! The rest of the kit fueling and all are all inculded with instructions on installation, etc...







Its the perfect low cost kit for someone who wants a basic turbo NOW!!! and wants to learn what to do, and not to do with turbos on CIS-E. 
dubspeed: is always giving me he11 on here, but I still love him anyways.....lol Its nice to get others opinions on things your learning good or bad. That's why the site was created. He has very good knowlege about this stuff, just wish he wasen't so "mad at the world" so to speak. We could learn alot from you man. So please share any more info. you have on this topic, and lets all get a little smarter.
If the stevelangford kit isin't the "way to go" whats a better, more cost effective, cheaper, easier installed way to go? I support the stevelangford kit, and I gave my reasons. Lets here everyone elses "better" way????







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*

Its a toilet bowl manifold cut down and rewelded. He uses them because people just throw them out, very cheap/free and he can make a larger profit.


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Its a toilet bowl manifold cut down and rewelded. He uses them because people just throw them out, very cheap/free and he can make a larger profit. 

Thanks for the clear up! Not sure what a "toilet bowl mani. is. What cars, or car did it come off of, and is it good, or bad to use?


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## ErosNJ (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*

Did you buy a kit from StevenLang for that 200whp? 
If you did I will buy one too.. I hope he ships worldwide!


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (ErosNJ)*

Hmmm, he dosent promise 200whp with his stage 3 kits, but if you ask him, he will tell you what you need to get there







. I know he has stage 1, 2, and 3, and the defferent stages mean how complete the kit comes. I optied for the stage 3 kit simply because I can take off stuff, and put stuff on, but I have no clue on how to fabricate. With the stage 3 kit, you only have to fab up your intercooler piping, and the downpipe. The rest of the kit is complete including fueling for cis, and cis-e. the kit even comes with gauges!!! And it was realatively CHEAP!!!! Now the kit dosent have any extra bells and whisles to maximise your turbo set-up, but it does give you a good foundation to build your 200-300 whp monster...


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*









The manifold on the right is a toilet bowl manifold. Off of some Mk1. I had one at one point on the car and they flow like crap well at least in its original form. I sold mine to Steve for like $30 or something around there. He prolly sells them for more.
For the same price you could prolly get an ATP style cast manifold for like $200


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Cabby-Blitz)*

My suggestion for the people looking into the Steven Langford "kit" I suggest shopping around and piecing a kit together. You can buy everything plus a true EIC for around $2000 or less and definitely get 200whp then. You could even go with digi 1 and ditch CIS.


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## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Cabby-Blitz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cabby-Blitz* »_
For the same price you could prolly get an ATP style cast manifold for like $200[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

i got my atp manifold for like 200 bucks and it came w/external wastegate.and the atp looks a lot nicer. [IMG]http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif heres mine


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_My suggestion for the people looking into the Steven Langford "kit" I suggest shopping around and piecing a kit together. You can buy everything plus a true EIC for around $2000 or less and definitely get 200whp then. You could even go with digi 1 and ditch CIS. 

I have to agree with this. Im doing the same thing except staying with CIS. You could prolly get it done for way less than I have though. Im $1000 into it and still need ruffly $500 more in parts. Though I did go the External wastegate route and picked up a Tial. Along with Tial BOV cause thats what I want. I coud have just stuck with the 1G DSM I have.
This will be my 1st turbo setup but Im pretty confident I can get this working right by summer.


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Cabby-Blitz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cabby-Blitz* »_
I have to agree with this. Im doing the same thing except staying with CIS. You could prolly get it done for way less than I have though. Im $1000 into it and still need ruffly $500 more in parts. Though I did go the External wastegate route and picked up a Tial. Along with Tial BOV cause thats what I want. I coud have just stuck with the 1G DSM I have.
This will be my 1st turbo setup but Im pretty confident I can get this working right by summer.

lol, your about to spend exactly what I paid for a brand new stage 3, balanced T3 including intercooler, turbo kit from stevelangford $1500 shipped!!! Thats my point! I didnt have to piece match, I dont have to worry about stopping in the middle of the install because Im missing a small piece, or part of something. It is 100% except the downpipe, and intercooling pipes, it even comes with instructions, etc...!!!!
I agree with you on later getting rid of the cis-e set-up I'll be going SDS, but for now, getting it on the road with cis-e over a weekend and not worrying about running lean because all I have to do is follow my install instructions supplied with my Stage 3 turbo kit, is a better deal. Like I said, for the money, its the best way I found to go.









why spend $2000 for used almost complete (guessing) pieces, or $1500 for almost (guessing) all the used pieces, when I can get a nice shinny stage 3 ballanced T3 turbo kit complete in one box, with install instructions that is complete in a weekend shipped for $1500???


_Modified by Serpent7 at 10:31 AM 1-26-2005_


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*

would the author of this thread please resize those pics!!!! I'm sick of scrolling sideways to read.
Serpent - I don't hate on you, I've just see people get some "shady" parts. I just want future buyers to check the competition or perhaps...build their own kit
Here's my two cents on going CIS turbo.
If I were to do it, I would get off the internet, call up my local junkyards and source a Saab 900 turbo, Audi CIS turbo car, Volvo 240 Turbo, Nissan Z turbo, a Gen 1. DSM turbo and a couple other things. Then I would go buy the necessary parts from all of them..slap them on my 8V and be done.
Really the only thing you would need fabbed is a cheap d/p. Intercooler piping can be had from all the cars listed above.
either way...kit or homegrown...the more boosted dubs the better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdubspeed)*

Steve's kit really isnt a deal for $1500, for the same price you can have a cast exhaust mani not a cut stock unit that flows like crap, you can have a better intercooler, a real EIC or 240T fuel dizzy, real oil return/feed lines not the rubber fuel or metal brake line that comes in his kits. I have a customer with one of his "kits" and he's disappointed how cheap everything is. 
Come on a fueling kit that uses a used Audi WUR and cold start valve.


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_would the author of this thread please resize those pics!!!! I'm sick of scrolling sideways to read.
Serpent - I don't hate on you, I've just see people get some "shady" parts. I just want future buyers to check the competition or perhaps...build their own kit
Here's my two cents on going CIS turbo.
If I were to do it, I would get off the internet, call up my local junkyards and source a Saab 900 turbo, Audi CIS turbo car, Volvo 240 Turbo, Nissan Z turbo, a Gen 1. DSM turbo and a couple other things. Then I would go buy the necessary parts from all of them..slap them on my 8V and be done.
Really the only thing you would need fabbed is a cheap d/p. Intercooler piping can be had from all the cars listed above.
either way...kit or homegrown...the more boosted dubs the better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Now I understand.... this clears it up for me, and with this knowlege I would have to say, yes... this sounds like a better way to turbo your car than the stevelangford kit. Finally someone cleared it up, or put it in dummy terms so I could understand







.
Vdubspeed: I know you dont hate me, but I'm very new to this whole VW thing, and even newer like a lot of us on here to turboing a VW, so when you experienced guys talk to, or with us we need a little more explaining than the folks that know a whole lot more. And I must say, you just cleared everything up for me!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Im ready to hit Crazy Rayz (local junk yard here in MD.) for some more parts pulling. I havent been in the last three months, but Im a regular there in the spring, summer, and fall months. I copied in notes some of the parts you said to look for, and will be pulling asap. thanks again for your help! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif






















Since I bought the stevelangford kit, Im going to stick with it. I think it will work out for me, and make some, most, or part of the install easier. I still say it is the way to go for people who dont want to go, or dont have access to a good junk yard, or who dont know a lot about VW's, and turboing, and want to get it on the road asap! But if I had the down time, Vdubspeed's way is much better $$$.
Vdubspeed: The kit isnt that bad (quality) is it??? What parts would you replace, or not use. I know you said the oil in/out lines, but anything else, if you already purchased the kit? Also, where do you get the cheapest, and best head gaskets to stack for a 1.8L 8V to lower the compression. ATP dosent have them. Thanks!


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Steve's kit really isnt a deal for $1500, for the same price you can have a cast exhaust mani not a cut stock unit that flows like crap, you can have a better intercooler, a real EIC or 240T fuel dizzy, real oil return/feed lines not the rubber fuel or metal brake line that comes in his kits. I have a customer with one of his "kits" and he's disappointed how cheap everything is. 
Come on a fueling kit that uses a used Audi WUR and cold start valve.









Since I already have the kit, what parts do I use, and what parts do I swap out, and where to get them from?


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*

Serpent - you already have the kit so go with it. If the turbo is good...use it. the intercooler looks a little rough but if it's functional....use it.
If you gave me 1500 to build a turbo kit I would do it like this.
1. cast mani=200 bucks from a million places
2. junkyard t3 - 20-100 bucks. might or might not need a rebuild. I'll be giving and say 300 bucks for a turbo.
1000 left.
3. junkyard DSM Gen 1 BOV with pipes. 50 bucks
4. Audi WUR. 20 bucks or so
5. Volvo fuel dizzy. 100 bucks
6. DSM intercooler, Saab intercooler, Mitsu Starion intercooler...you name it...100 bucks.
7. oil feed/return, grab from a million car or make your own. I made my own. it cost me 19 for the feed and 40 for the return using Earl's/Aeroquip/Russel fittings.
8. whatever else you need....
seriously...a salvage yard offers more than most people think. 
I paid 200 bucks for a complete Audi turbo 5000 motor!!! I got the WUR, exhaust mani, turbo, external wastegate, piping, the intake mani and so on. I could have just modded the rear exhaust manifold and had a nice junkyard turbo setup with a factory audi external wastegate that is known for being strong. 
I sold the setup for the price I paid for it because I went 16vT and more in depth.
kits are cool and all but you can usually do it cheaper and better with knowledge and patience.
Jason


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdubspeed)*

Look for a Ford T-bird turbo coupe or a Merker xr4ti to grab the turbo from also. 
t3 60 trim .63 a/r with standard ford flanges that everyone sells. The Nissan turbo needs a different flange which is harder to find. Might have to make it.


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdubspeed)*

Yea vdubspeed is right.
This is what I have into my setup right now. The turbo is in good condition, from a Ford turbo car.
Turbo (.60, .63) $200 
Manifold $225 
Wastegate $195 
BOV $195
Warm Up Regulator $34 
Oil Pan $20
Oil Return Line $40 
Boost Gauge $15 
Hardware $45 
Total $970
This is what I still need
Downpipe $100
IC Piping $100
Intercooler $180 
Fuel distributor $50 
Oil Feed Line $35 
Oil Return Line $20 
Misc. Hardware $75 
Total $575

Im sure Im missing some things but thats what I have listed out. I plan on doing the intercooler piping and maybe the downpipe setup but having to pay someone else to weld it. Also I could have stuck witht eh 1G BOV but I decided I like the Tial better and thats why I got it. Also I could have saved more money buy sticking with internal wastegate.

By the wya vdub,
Where you pick up a feed line for $19??




_Modified by Cabby-Blitz at 2:31 PM 1-26-2005_


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Cabby-Blitz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cabby-Blitz* »_
By the wya vdub,
Where you pick up a feed line for $19??

There's a local hydraulic shop in town called Industrial power. I told them what I wanted and within minutes they made it. Check your phone book for hydraulic shops. Just make sure it can withstand the temps.
Good luck,
Jason


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdubspeed)*

Napa in town makes them, might want to check your local one out to see if they do it also.


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Napa in town makes them, might want to check your local one out to see if they do it also. 


Naap will make me a oil return line? Cool. I'l give them a call first!


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Serpent7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Serpent7* »_

Naap will make me a oil return line? Cool. I'l give them a call first!

I make oil-return lines. I sold one to Cabby-Blitz about a month ago. AN-10 lines, Aircraft fittings on both ends cut to your specified length. 40 shipped.
IM for more details.
Jason


_Modified by vdubspeed at 11:53 AM 1-28-2005_


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (vdubspeed)*

Yep good work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Serpent7 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: CIS-E turbo? (Cabby-Blitz)*

I dont know how long I'll need them to be....lol I hate not knowing anything. The ones that come with the kit are rubber, and Im sure there "cut-to-fit", so I guess I'll have to wait and give him a IM after the install. I ordered the multi layer head gaskets, timming belt, rubber oil pan gasket with wendage tray, and cork valve cover gasket early this week from DSR. Once those parts come in, I'll be schedaling a install with Patrick Schmitt. He'll be doing the install for me.


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