# TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)




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## a7xogg (Nov 25, 2008)

wow so similar to the NA 2.5l but yet soo not the same engine.


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## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: (a7xogg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a7xogg* »_wow so similar to the NA 2.5l but yet soo not the same engine.

Yeah, it has dirrect injection for starts. Pretty cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 88vwFox (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: (2ohgti)*

If you look at pic's of the 2.5 rabbit head next to the fsi 2.0t head the ports and set up look the same. It even has the same casting marks where the FSI holes would be. This 2.5 fsi just looks to ME ( i could be VERY wrong) to be the combo of the two. the 2.5l displacement with the fsi from the 2.0t. that and V.A.G. has already come out with the 2nd gen FSI known as TFSI or TSI. other than the updates from that it looks like a 2.5 with a stock turbo set-up. i can't wait to see the numbers that come from this car.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Its essentially the same motor with fsi and a turbo.
Everything is configured the same.
I wonder what the price will be for the turbo.


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Audi4u)*

so the tt drive train will bolt right up? (to the rabbit motor I mean)


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
I wonder what the price will be for the turbo.

Wont work on the rabbit motor Dre








It follows the same mounting configuration as the BPY/BMP 2.0 FSI motors.


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## Xyphyr (May 29, 2007)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Wont work on the rabbit motor Dre








It follows the same mounting configuration as the BPY/BMP 2.0 FSI motors.

Id like to see someone swap this engine into their rabbit, should bolt right up with a hammer.


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## JIIP (Apr 20, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Xyphyr* »_
Id like to see someone swap this engine into their rabbit, should bolt right up with a hammer.










this will only work if they either come to the u.s. in a car. or you pay ridiculous amounts to buy one and ship it over.


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## Outie5000 (Aug 8, 2007)

i think i just got a boner.


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## Clipsed (Feb 25, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (JIIP)*

This is some good stuff, too bad we don't get it on this side of the pond.


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## SpiderX1016 (Jul 22, 2008)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Xyphyr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Xyphyr* »_
Id like to see someone swap this engine into their rabbit, should bolt right up with a hammer.
















ahhh, Clarkson should patent his product before people start copying his ideas.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Wont work on the rabbit motor Dre








It follows the same mounting configuration as the BPY/BMP 2.0 FSI motors.

Even if you made an adapter for the bottom. I was already looking into this to make things easier.


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Wont work on the rabbit motor Dre








It follows the same mounting configuration as the BPY/BMP 2.0 FSI motors.


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Even if you made an adapter for the bottom. I was already looking into this to make things easier.

if this is the same configuration as the FSI motor,shouldn't it bolt up. DRGraphix bolted an 07 GTI 6 spd manual to his 2.5 with no adapters...


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Even if you made an adapter for the bottom. I was already looking into this to make things easier.


If you are going to make adapters then you could as well use manifolds from other makes with similar bore spacing.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Issam Abed)*

Any more info on this Issam?


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## 1_BADHARE (Mar 8, 2008)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Audi4u)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (1_BADHARE)*

I really hope that is not the same kind of timing chain setup the N/A 2.5 has!!! Looks like the turbo version has variable valve timing on both cams (intake only on N/A 2.5 IIRC) but don't see how the chain setup would change much.
If it is the same setup then I hate to see what the cost of chain replacement on our simple little 2.5's would be. Ughh....


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## MI_canuck (Dec 21, 1999)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Issam Abed)*

wow!!







what a BEAST of an engine... BIG http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Audi - sort of going back to their "roots"... 5-cyl Turbo... Welcome back!!

Here's something appropriate








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCEZKGkjCks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0WvEBFH_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG_ImV-KBc4


















Now... if only Audi would get back into rallying... of course, Group B would need to return











_Modified by MI_canuck at 8:29 AM 6-18-2009_


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## ender619 (Aug 28, 2008)

if audi goes back to rally then... wouldn't to subies and evo's get scurd ?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (ender619)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ender619* »_if audi goes back to rally then... wouldn't to subies and evo's get scurd ?  

Maybe


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## MI_canuck (Dec 21, 1999)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Issam Abed)*


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## 88vwFox (Nov 22, 2005)

rally now a days is limited to 2.0l motors so the 5 banger would not be aloud unless destroked and/ or a smaller boare.


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## JIIP (Apr 20, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *88vwFox* »_rally now a days is limited to 2.0l motors so the 5 banger would not be aloud unless destroked and/ or a smaller boare.


which is very possible.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*FV-QR*

bump: for more/current info


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

Engine-n00b question. It may be unanswerable given what's known about this engine, but I'm going to ask anyway.
Given that the 2.0T engines make 200 bhp, how does this one make 70% more power with only a 25% increase in displacement?


_Modified by Jon1983 at 5:43 PM 9-18-2009_


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

*Re: (Jon1983)*

Better everything. Displacement isn't the only explanation for power. Better cam timing, larger injectors, support for higher detonation-resistance fuels, higher cylinder compression, higher boost from turbine, newer engine technology, less restrictive intake and exhaust, etc. all attribute to higher power gains from the same displacement. It's kinda like wondering why my MG 18V engine puts out 60ft/lb. torque on a good day, which is pitiful in comparison to today's naturally-aspirated 1.8L four-bangers.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Audi4u)*

Bore × stroke	82.50 mm × 92.80 mm 3.25 in × 3.65 in
Cylinders	5
Displacement	2.5 litre 2480 cc (151.339 cu in)
Type	DOHC
4 valves per cylinder 
20 valves in total
Construction	
Sump	Wet sumped
Compression ratio	10.00:1
Fuel system	direct petrol injection
Maximum power	339.7 PS (335.0 bhp) (249.8 kW) @ 5400-6500 rpm
Specific output	135.1 bhp/litre 2.21 bhp/cu in
Maximum torque	450.0 Nm (332 ft·lb) (45.9 kgm) @ 1600-5300 rpm
bmep	2280.2 kPa (330.7 psi)
Specific torque	181.45 Nm/litre
found in the interwebz....


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Jon1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_Engine-n00b question. It may be unanswerable given what's known about this engine, but I'm going to ask anyway.
Given that the 2.0T engines make 200 bhp, how does this one make 70% more power with only a 25% increase in displacement?

_Modified by Jon1983 at 5:43 PM 9-18-2009_

it also runs more boost stock. I think 17-18 psi.


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## phrog23 (May 12, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*















omg.... think its time to go rob a bank, and get me one of these motors.. total sex


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

*Re: (phrog23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phrog23* »_














omg.... think its time to go rob a bank, and get me one of these motors.. total sex

Whole drivetrain swap.
"What, your Jetta didn't come standard with 4WD and 340 hp?"


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## cosmishine (Sep 7, 2009)

count me in, i'll drive


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: TECH : TT-RS 2.5 Inline-5 Turbo Motor in depth (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_
Given that the 2.0T engines make 200 bhp, how does this one make 70% more power with only a 25% increase in displacement?

Marketing....
TT's in general have always gotten more power out of the factory than the basic motors start with.
e.g. VW Golf - 150hp
Audi TT Quattro - 225hp
Audi S3 (special ed) - 245hp
Larger turbo than the K03 found in the 2.0TFSI and more displacement also help as well as bigger feet that needed to full the RS2 shoes of the past.Audi was not going to release this without it packing a punch.
This is going to be a very nice engine in the future, however, it really is sad that nothing from the cylinder head will work on the 2.5 rabbit motors so all of you that wished to buy the turbo and manifolds are SOL.








And because we all like MTM/Sportec


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

I read up and watched videos on the TT-RS, and people are saying that it still handles like a TT, just faster (i.e., fast in a straight line, but understeery in the corners).
The TT-RS is a properly hot car (with a nice interior), but for the money, if you want to go fast on a track, there are better options... which is a shame for this engine, unless Audi puts it in a better-handling car at some point down the line.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Jon1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_unless Audi puts it in a better-handling car at some point down the line.

IMHO most Audi vehicles handle poorly out of the show room.
Thats why companies like Stasis do a great job at making them take the corners better.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

i want an FSI cylinder head... even w/out a turbo


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## Rabbid0281 (Jan 12, 2008)

hell yeah man, getting the head is what really matters. Its ngiht and day difference, like on my old 79 Celica, it was carbed, but if it had EFI then you could run a turbo with fuel injection. Grab a C2 cam/turbo kit and some NLS headers, and a FMIC, then yur in business. everything else can pretty much be worked out to make the right pot of coffee.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

will this head mate to the 2.5 bottom end in my 09 rabbit?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kungfoojesus* »_will this head mate to the 2.5 bottom end in my 09 rabbit?

Yes it will
but why?


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

why not? this isn't something people will do?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kungfoojesus* »_why not? this isn't something people will do?


Not really no...
There would actually be no gain other than going from non-FSI to FSI injection as the cylinder head casts are "practically" the same.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Not really no...
There would actually be no gain other than going from non-FSI to FSI injection as the cylinder head casts are "practically" the same.

If it's cast "piratically" the same, then the manifolds and whatnot "should" bolt up, and work. People would definitely want to pick up the head/intake/exhaust mani and run them. Saves them from having to buy and ship a whole motor. I for one would gladly do this Frankenstein project provided we get the car over here. OEM bolt on quality, C2 tune, bada-bing, done.


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

How far off could the exhaust be, i mean besides the turbo and such, the flange/mating surface should be similar no?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (undercoverdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TeamZleep* »_
If it's cast "piratically" the same, then the manifolds and whatnot "should" bolt up, and work. People would definitely want to pick up the head/intake/exhaust mani and run them.

Sorry but the manifolds will not bolt up to an NA 2.5 head.

_Quote, originally posted by *undercoverdubber* »_How far off could the exhaust be, i mean besides the turbo and such, the flange/mating surface should be similar no? 

No
And besides...the OEM TT-RS turbocharger + manifold from the dealer is $2400+...


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

So much for being cast "practically" the same. Oh well, time to wait for rich people who like to get into accidents.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (TeamZleep)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TeamZleep* »_So much for being cast "practically" the same. Oh well, time to wait for rich people who like to get into accidents.

Cylinder head cast != turbocharger & manifold.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

bump


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## KulturKampf (Nov 30, 2009)

so theoretically could the cams from this engine be used in our na 2.5


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## tdirs (Sep 25, 2001)

Im lucky enuff to have a ttrs motor that will be going into a mk2 golf.I dont have any ancills on it only the long block.The crank has an 8 bolt flywheel mount,not the 6 bolt of the jetta mkv.Ill be posting pics up of the build.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

tdirs said:


> Im lucky enuff to have a ttrs motor that will be going into a mk2 golf.I dont have any ancills on it only the long block.The crank has an 8 bolt flywheel mount,not the 6 bolt of the jetta mkv.Ill be posting pics up of the build.


waiting!!!! 

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## KulturKampf (Nov 30, 2009)

so nobody on the cams?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

KulturKampf said:


> so theoretically could the cams from this engine be used in our na 2.5


Dont know why you would want turbo cams in an N/A motor
it is usually the other way around. N/A cams in a turbo motor.

Since VWVortex cant/wont make a 2.5TTRS forum , we are going to use this forum for now.:thumbup:


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## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Do you have any na cams?Im not going to run any of the variable cam timing so i need to look at which cams i cam run.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

tdirs1 said:


> Do you have any na cams?Im not going to run any of the variable cam timing so i need to look at which cams i cam run.


From 2.5 Rabbit Motors?
I have maybe 8 sets complete. If you are not using VVT or FSI then why are you using the TTRS head?


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## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Its stronger,itll take more boost,hd valve seats,better valve cover ventilation but mainly i bought a ttrs valve cover!!an i cant send it back!


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

tdirs1 said:


> Its stronger,itll take more boost,hd valve seats,better valve cover ventilation but mainly i bought a ttrs valve cover!!an i cant send it back!


I want one of those valve covers... No joke. Anyway you guys could source one?


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## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

They cost a small fortune £280


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

It's about what you pay for a Eurojet one... Seriously. Plus it retains the stock PCV system. PM me so we can work something out!


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

what do you guys think needs to be done to run a TTRS valve cover if its even posible


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> what do you guys think needs to be done to run a TTRS valve cover if its even posible


Probably not a lot dude. I'd like to know too, because if it's possible (and aluminum, it looks it), I'm no joke buying one and running it.


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## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

The cover itself will fit but ull have a big gap where the fuel pump sticks up thru!!


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

so in short we'll need Ina to figure out a plug for us


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> so in short we'll need Ina to figure out a plug for us


That wouldn't be hard at all. :thumbup:


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## dutchbuild (May 4, 2007)

Hello,

This TT-RS engine is only interest when you will use the FSI. The FSI work perfect but have a limited for max. bhp. 

The came shafts are specialy for the FSI and isn't interest for in the stock 2.5. 

The inlet manifold do have special valves in it for the FSI also. 

What I think is when you want a nice and fast stock engine whithout changing some internals, this will be the perfect engine.

When you want a 600+ bhp engine you can better start with the normal 2.5 and change all to your own wish. Best way is to use a 2.5 engine and change this to the TT-RS ports and valves. The TT-RS do have wider inlet ports and bigger inlet valves. The TT-RS valves are the same as from the 2.0TFSI. (TT-S)

Only qustion is what they have done with the crank shaft. What I know is that 850bhp is not a problem for the stock 2.5 shaft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-yU-g6ljE


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## Schagephonic (Feb 5, 2009)

:thumbup::thumbup: Awesome video!


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

TeamZleep said:


> It's about what you pay for a Eurojet one... Seriously. Plus it retains the stock PCV system. PM me so we can work something out!


The Eurojet one is more than perfect:thumbup:


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> The Eurojet one is more than perfect:thumbup:


Yeah, but the point is that you can't get them anymore. I've been on like two group buys that have failed miserably. If I pay the same price and retain the stock PCV system, screw it.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

TeamZleep said:


> Yeah, but the point is that you can't get them anymore. I've been on like two group buys that have failed miserably. If I pay the same price and retain the stock PCV system, screw it.


Why cant you get them anymore?
Has Joel decided he wont make them anymore? If so then I can run a group buy (with his permission of course) and manufacture them for members here but I would need at least 20 people on board.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

dutchbuild said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df-yU-g6ljE


heres a better video including pics of the setup and installed in a go cart


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

so i guess the vw 5 cylinder is pretty much just half of this motor. lol


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> Why cant you get them anymore?
> Has Joel decided he wont make them anymore? If so then I can run a group buy (with his permission of course) and manufacture them for members here but I would need at least 20 people on board.


When I called 6 months ago, they said they weren't really running them anymore because of lack of demand... Every time they try to do a GB, I'm always on the list... and there's never enough people to pull it off...

I'd


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

TeamZleep said:


> When I called 6 months ago, they said they weren't really running them anymore because of lack of demand... Every time they try to do a GB, I'm always on the list... and there's never enough people to pull it off...
> 
> I'd


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Issam Abed said:


> Hmmm
> Get 14 more people and I will do a run for you.:thumbup:


I need one so id be in


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MattWayMK5 said:


> I need one so id be in


Are you ready to send payment?


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Issam Abed said:


> Are you ready to send payment?


If the price is right I could send payment at any point. Wanna PM me what you guys were thinking? I know they were going for $399 originally 

Post #7
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ver-amp-Catch-Can-Combo&highlight=valve+cover


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MattWayMK5 said:


> If the price is right I could send payment at any point. Wanna PM me what you guys were thinking? I know they were going for $399 originally
> 
> Post #7
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ver-amp-Catch-Can-Combo&highlight=valve+cover


That might be hard to beat due to the low quantity but I will see what I can do.


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Issam Abed said:


> That might be hard to beat due to the low quantity but I will see what I can do.


Completely understandable. Just let me know what kinda number you guys come up with and well talk


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> That might be hard to beat due to the low quantity but I will see what I can do.


Let me know the price too, I can throw down now if it's good.


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## dutchbuild (May 4, 2007)

nickbeezy said:


> heres a better video including pics of the setup and installed in a go cart




Hello, I know this video, but I don't like the begin from this. The talk about a half V10 what is bull****:screwy:

This because normally we don't have this 5-inline engines in our Country. So they have make his own story about this engine I do a lot business with them (they live 1 hour driven away from me) and I think that they talk on this way so other people in our country will buy this engine from him and not straight out of the US


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

We heard rumours a few years ago that the MKVII Jetta/Golf's will come standard with the 2.5 FSI turbo motor probably in the GLI and R25 models. Looks like some of the rumors are surfacing with testing...


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

I'm interested in the price for the valve cover & catch can also. Hit me up with a price once you got it and if its right I'm in :thumbup:

I hate to be the pessimistic one, but you want 20 people to get in on this? I couldn't even get 5 during the last group buy. If we can find the people that's freakin awesome, but I don't see how. The majority of people on here want to spend every penny they have on bags and BBSs.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MKVJET08 said:


> I'm interested in the price for the valve cover & catch can also. Hit me up with a price once you got it and if its right I'm in :thumbup:
> 
> I hate to be the pessimistic one, but you want 20 people to get in on this? I couldn't even get 5 during the last group buy. If we can find the people that's freakin awesome, but I don't see how. The majority of people on here want to spend every penny they have on bags and BBSs.


Since the inception of the 2.5 20V motor , there have been 4 companies that have developed a billet valve cover for this motor. All 4 of those companies no longer make the product.

The 20 people is to split the engineering cost (my time) evenly. I can make 5 covers , but the COST will be alot more than most are willing to spend.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

This is such a drag...


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

Issam Abed said:


> Since the inception of the 2.5 20V motor , there have been 4 companies that have developed a billet valve cover for this motor. All 4 of those companies no longer make the product.
> 
> The 20 people is to split the engineering cost (my time) evenly. I can make 5 covers , but the COST will be alot more than most are willing to spend.


I understand the purpose for having 20 people rather than 5, I'm just saying I doubt it will happen.

Lets get a list going...

1) MkvJet08
2) TeamZleep
3) MattWayMK5
4) Johnathon ross

anyone else?


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## johnathon ross (May 12, 2009)

put me down for one


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

johnathon ross said:


> put me down for one


Keep it coming:thumbup:


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Issam Abed said:


> The 20 people is to split the engineering cost (my time) evenly. I can make 5 covers , but the COST will be alot more than most are willing to spend.


Could you give us a price if we were to get 20 people as opposed to 5?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MattWayMK5 said:


> Could you give us a price if we were to get 20 people as opposed to 5?


If I did 5 it would be about 700 a cover.


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Issam Abed said:


> If I did 5 it would be about 700 a cover.


Ouch. Come on people, lets get some more people setup for a group buy


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

Issam Abed said:


> If I did 5 it would be about 700 a cover.


And if you did 20?


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

the cams still really interest me about this motor. has anyone actually figured out the specs? It seems that thats the biggest bottle neck in out 2.5's. I would be willing to bet that the rs cams ARE an improvement over the stock camse even though they are made for FI 

consider that the 2.5's that are turbocharged make LESS power then the 2.0t's it seems to me that if the cams in the 2.5 were even comprable to the fsi cams the engine would make more power then the 2l. (yes i know it dosent have direct injection) 

The tt rs engine is designed to be a performance engine not a handicapped non eco motor so its unlikely they would have the same handicap cams.

anyone?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MaxVW said:


> the cams still really interest me about this motor. has anyone actually figured out the specs? It seems that thats the biggest bottle neck in out 2.5's. I would be willing to bet that the rs cams ARE an improvement over the stock camse even though they are made for FI
> 
> consider that the 2.5's that are turbocharged make LESS power then the 2.0t's it seems to me that if the cams in the 2.5 were even comprable to the fsi cams the engine would make more power then the 2l. (yes i know it dosent have direct injection)
> 
> ...


EVen IF the cams showed a substantial gain , the price of them would be over $1000 Euro's a set.


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

MKVJET08 said:


> And if you did 20?


So... what kind of price are we looking at here?


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

MaxVW said:


> consider that the 2.5's that are turbocharged make LESS power then the 2.0t's


LOL WUT? :sly:


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

MaxVW said:


> consider that the 2.5's that are turbocharged make LESS power then the 2.0t's


The weakest turbo kit for the 2.5 dynos at 20hp more than the 2.0t...


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

MKVJET08 said:


> The weakest turbo kit for the 2.5 dynos at 20hp more than the 2.0t...


on 6psi... 

With additional supporting mods (i.e. exhaust and other little things), you're looking at more than that 20hp...


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

sorry i should have clairified 

stage 1 c2 rabbit makes less power then stage 1 c2 gti

same for stage 2

and i dont think there is a three yet


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

MaxVW said:


> sorry i should have clairified
> 
> stage 1 c2 rabbit makes less power then stage 1 c2 gti
> 
> ...


c2 stage 1 makes about 220 WHP!
2.0T stage 1: 245 CRANK hp.

c2 stage 2: it says 280 hp
2.0T stage 2: 280 CRANK hp

so... if you make the tranny a loss of 15%.
245crank= 208.25 WHP.
280 crank= 238 whp


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MKVJET08 said:


> So... what kind of price are we looking at here?


About $500 USD.:thumbup:


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## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

TTRS cams have phazers on intake and exhaust,the duration is completely different to the intake too.


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## AsymmetricalDichotomy (Aug 13, 2010)

I doubt there will be 20 people wanting a vc for a FSI, but I want one. Are the people on the original list still interested? If it's more than $500 I have no interest.


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## team3d (Dec 10, 2000)

thygreyt said:


> c2 stage 1 makes about 220 WHP!
> 2.0T stage 1: 245 CRANK hp.
> 
> c2 stage 2: it says 280 hp
> ...


stage 2 is 280hp ?


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## troverman (Aug 30, 2005)

Does the stock 2.5L in my 2010 Jetta have intake VVT? 

What did VW do to this engine in 2008 to make 170HP vs original 150? 

Does anyone know where I can find very in-depth technical reference on this motor?

Thanks


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

read around.. search a lot


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

as an update for anyone wanting to know bout the difference between he american 2.5 vs the 2.5tfsi engines, there are more differences than previosly stated. the cyldiner block uses cjv-450 compacted vermicular graphite cast iron which is used for being lighter and stronger than gray cast iron, the cylinder head is cast high hot-strength aluminum alloy, forged steel rods cast aluminum alloy pistons weighing 492 grams each, sodium filled exhaust valves, 2 stage valve lift, lightweight cams, the vvt for intake and exhaust can be adjusted up to 42 degrees from the crankshaft
and has modified inlet duct geometry for high tumble values providing superior knock resistance

its easy, out there info, and all of this was found at wikipedia.org, search "vw engines" i love lookin up all the tech info on the engines and comparing to see which would be the best for which applications. the ttrs version would definately be better for turbo applications and should be more durable, but as easy and cheap as it is to find the 2.5s here, that's still probably the way to go, and by the time you figure the cost of a premium audi engine and supporting mods to make it work, you could have a stand-alone 2.5 with forged rods/pistons plus upgraded valves and p&p work. Sure, you won't have the block or head alloy, or fsi, or dual vvt or valve lift but you'd still have an awesome engine producing a LOT of power


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

TREKSportMK3 said:


> its easy, out there info, and all of this was found at* wikipedia.org,* search "vw engines" i love lookin up all the tech info on the engines and comparing to see which would be the best for which applications.


And most of it is wrong. 
The blocks between the 2.5 N/A and 2.5 TSI are pratically the same. The cylinder head is cast from the same material and the camshaft girdle is different to have provision for the FSI fuel pump as well as the VVT solenoids.
other than that they are pretty much identical.
I have both the TTRS and 2.5 motor apart and we just picked up an entire swap to do a conversion into an unnamed chassis.
Also helping out 3 members here to achieve 600+whp out of 2.5 N/A motors.

The only thing "mexican" in a 2.5 motor is the cylinder head. Cylinder block is made in Germany as well as camshaft girdle on the TTRS. I will go indepth more on this when I have time.


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

didnt say the block or heads were different, just different material. dont know bout the head material as its not listed for the na 2.5, but thought to mention it as it was listed for the ttrs, thought it could be a change. sorry to hear that the specs for engines on wikipedia are mostly wrong, they always seemed pretty close to me, what defects have you found? is there anything wrong in what i quoted earlier bout the diferences between the two? it would be good to know where you have both in front of you, thanks


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## ArminT (Mar 8, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> And most of it is wrong.
> The blocks between the 2.5 N/A and 2.5 TSI are pratically the same. The cylinder head is cast from the same material and the camshaft girdle is different to have provision for the FSI fuel pump as well as the VVT solenoids.
> other than that they are pretty much identical.
> I have both the TTRS and 2.5 motor apart and we just picked up an entire swap to do a conversion into an unnamed chassis.
> ...




Thats awesome!! :thumbup::thumbup:
love reading about this stuff.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

while some might disagree... Issam knows his stuff!


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

Here in Europe the 2 liter TFSI "S" models have 272 pk.
One cylinder more should give 5/4 x 272 = 340 pk wich is about the power of the RS engine.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> And most of it is wrong.
> The blocks between the 2.5 N/A and 2.5 TSI are pratically the same. The cylinder head is cast from the same material and the camshaft girdle is different to have provision for the FSI fuel pump as well as the VVT solenoids.
> other than that they are pretty much identical.





thygreyt said:


> while some might disagree... Issam knows his stuff!


No disrespect, but I disagree. The casting material IS different and there are various other differences specific to the 2.5 TFSI. Taken from the Audi TT-RS Self-Study Program 990713:

– Different aluminum casting alloy
– Lower-set water jacket around the spark plug
– Tempered exhaust valve seats
– Attachment of a high-pressure pump to the ladder frame
– Optimized exhaust cam contour
– Addition of an exhaust cam adjuster
– Sodium-filled exhaust valves for cooling
– Turbo-specific intake port (to produce the required tumble airflow in the combustion chamber)

Get you own copy HERE


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## Two . Slow (Aug 5, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Also helping out 3 members here to achieve 600+whp out of 2.5 N/A motors.


:what: bad ass, pics?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

zevion said:


> Get you own copy HERE


You mean the same copy we used screen shots from back in 2009 when I made this thread? :laugh:



zevion said:


> No disrespect, but I disagree.


Are you disagreeing for disagreeing sake or are you one of the few people in the world to actually dismantle one of these motors?
...maybe you missed this part.


Issam Abed said:


> other than that they are pretty much identical.
> *I have both the TTRS and 2.5 motor apart* and we just picked up an entire swap to do a conversion into an unnamed chassis.


I am not here to argue , simply to educate. I did not say the motors were EXACTLY THE SAME , I said they were pretty much identical. 

Lets take a little blurb from the same SSP:
"*The cylinder head is from the 2.5L 5-cylinder VW engine*, but to withstand the higher stresses of a turbocharged engine, it was necessary to make the following modifications:

– Different aluminum casting alloy
– Lower-set water jacket around the spark plug *(obviously if it is running direct injection)*
– Tempered exhaust valve seats
– Attachment of a high-pressure pump to the ladder frame *(camshaft girdle)*
– Optimized exhaust cam contour
– Addition of an exhaust cam adjuster 
– Sodium-filled exhaust valves for cooling
– Turbo-specific intake port (to produce the required tumble air flow in the combustion chamber)
"
and compare to:


Issam Abed said:


> The cylinder head is cast from the same material and the camshaft girdle is different to have provision for the FSI fuel pump as well as the VVT solenoids.
> other than that they are pretty much identical.



Listing out valve material and such is oblivious as it has been that way since VAG built FI versions of NA motors. FI motors always had larger valves , larger ports , milder cams forged internals , blah blah...fancy names to make people go oooh aaaah when they read TSB's / SSP's.

Please dont think I am putting you down because that is not my goal here and feel free to use self study guides and wikapedia to argue your points but remember there is a fine line between theory and pratical data. We have both where as you have one :thumbup:


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

as with zevion, i mean no disrespect whatsoever, but we both listed differences however big or small and you made it sound like we were wrong when we werent... even if some of the changes are minute or just for publicity, they are stil differences and i just made it a point for people wondering about these engines and just wanted it listed among other info between the two. i never said you didnt know what you were talking about, or that you were lying or didnt have personal experience with both engines, just trying to add info:thumbup:


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> You mean the same copy we used screen shots from back in 2009 when I made this thread? :laugh:


And yet I provided a link to said document for others.




Issam Abed said:


> Are you disagreeing for disagreeing sake or are you one of the few people in the world to actually dismantle one of these motors?
> ...maybe you missed this part.


I am not one to disagree for the sake of it. You do not know me.. 



Issam Abed said:


> I am not here to argue , simply to educate. I did not say the motors were EXACTLY THE SAME , I said they were pretty much identical.


Sounds like you've gone pretty quickly into argument mode. And you said *The cylinder head is cast from the same material*. I was disagreeing based on Audi's own information, which clearly states it is not. Unless you can tell the material by dismantling the motor then great, but I suspect not.

And don't get ME wrong, I do mean no disrespect, but clearly taking a motor apart does not make you an expert either.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

TREKSportMK3 said:


> just trying to add info:thumbup:


 info that has been reguritated and added numerous times in this thread and forum. If you wished to add wikipedia blurbs there are other threads to do it in.:thumbup:


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> info that has been reguritated and added numerous times in this thread:


funny didn't see what i posted in this thread once or numerous times before i posted it, and whether you like "blurbs from wikipedia" or not, i was adding info that someone down the road might like to know, or might find interesting. facts and info are wondrous things, no need to be a jerk about it because you dont approve of where it came from


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## Two . Slow (Aug 5, 2009)

TREKSportMK3 said:


> funny didn't see what i posted in this thread once or numerous times before i posted it, and whether you like "blurbs from wikipedia" or not, i was adding info that someone down the road might like to know, or might find interesting. facts and info are wondrous things, no need to be a jerk about it because you dont approve of where it came from


But can't people edit Wikipedia? So why post things that came from a place that atleast from what I hear has a bad rep of half assed info? I don't think he was being a jerk just simply making it easy to read/less clutter and less chance for false info 


Sent from my torque wrench.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

zevion said:


> Unless you can tell the material by dismantling the motor then great, but I suspect not.


You are right , only testing materials can show what material was used but the beauty of VAG motors is the list the alloy component in the raw castings. If you wish to debate this more you can open your own thread , continue this via PM or you can continue the discussion started almost 2 years ago where the images show what we are referring to.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4875119-TTRS-motor.
You will see midway down the page I was stating cylinder head cast and camshaft girdle manufactured in different countries.



TREKSportMK3 said:


> funny didn't see what i posted in this thread once or numerous times before i posted it, and whether you like "blurbs from wikipedia" or not, i was adding info that someone down the road might like to know, or might find interesting. facts and info are wondrous things, no need to be a jerk about it because you dont approve of where it came from


Not being a jerk. I have been posting technical content on VWVortex since 2003 (2004 under this screen name). That is minimum 8 years anyway you look at it. Was simply correcting both of you with what I have found based on practical experience.
The TT-RS motor is not as special as everyone makes it out to be. I like to think of it as the Audi Coupe vs Audi S2 argument. Europe got all the nice goodies (Audi S2) and North America got the N/A 2.3 20V motor which was heavilty detuned. When S2's got old enough , North American Coupe's got more powerful. I expect the same thing of the TT-RS. :thumbup:


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> You are right , only testing materials can show what material was used but the beauty of VAG motors is the list the alloy component in the raw castings. If you wish to debate this more you can open your own thread , continue this via PM or you can continue the discussion started almost 2 years ago where the images show what we are referring to.
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4875119-TTRS-motor.
> You will see midway down the page I was stating cylinder head cast and camshaft girdle manufactured in different countries.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'll not make further posts after this. But let me request clarification on your statements. 

Are you saying...

1. ...that the head castings state the alloy contents and thus you are saying unequivocally that the 2.5L heads and the 2.5 TFSI heads are cast from the same alloy?

2. ...that threads opened by someone are not a forum for open discussion, and if such discussion ensues that new threads should be opened?

3. ...that a question about the alloy composition of the two heads is somehow answered by another thread stating that 2.5 TFSI cylinder head casting and camshaft girdle are manufactured in different countries?

4. ...that being a technical contributor to a forum for 8 years prevents others from open discussion, and removes you from having to back up your claim that you have "corrected us" because of your experience in dismantling one 2.5 TFSI motor?

I'm not discounting your experience or contributions, but I've not heard one thing from you that confirms that the head for the 2.5 TFSI is cast from the same alloy. 

Anyways, I'm done. You can have the last word.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

zevion said:


> 1. ...that the head castings state the alloy contents and thus you are saying unequivocally that the 2.5L heads and the 2.5 TFSI heads are cast from the same alloy?.


I got one of the pre production 2.5 TFSI motors so I will not be able to confirm if the production TFSI unit is cast from a different alloy until I have the motor here in 2 weeks but for right now both the 2.5 20V N/A head I have here and the 2.5 20V TFSI head are both cast using this alloy:

12 AlSi10MgCu

Which ironically is the same alloy VAG used in the old 1.8T 20V's sans the 12 part i.e. AlSi10Mg(Cu)

Feel free to read up more about it:
http://www.mfg-germany.com/index.php?ident=122&lang=2


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

it actually seems this motor did get extra special attention when it came to the block alloy (GJV-450 compacted vermicular graphite cast iron) as 2.0ts including the uprated ones in the Golf R, s3 etc. are still constructed with gray cast iron. this engine, as stated before, could very well be the next flagship for power in the vw/audi world, and this alloy might be their next step for the standard of more strength and less weight. looking through other engines, i really haven't seen an example where this alloy has been used for vw/audi as their performance engines usualy seem to use the "alusil" aluminum-silicon alloy... are there any other instances of this alloy being used for vw/audi yet?


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Good discussion.. Keep going.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> I got one of the pre production 2.5 TFSI motors so I will not be able to confirm if the production TFSI unit is cast from a different alloy until I have the motor here in 2 weeks but for right now both the 2.5 20V N/A head I have here and the 2.5 20V TFSI head are both cast using this alloy:
> 
> 12 AlSi10MgCu
> 
> ...


Okay, well this is more information and interesting. Maybe we got off on the wrong foot and I'm sorry if I came off the wrong way. I'm interested in this subject and would still like open discussion here.

I have a couple of new 2.5 heads, part number 07K-103-373-D. The markings are as you say. AlSi10MgCu. The number preceding it is 9 on the one I have sitting in front of me, whereas yours is 12. I suspect this is something other than the alloy composition. Not sure what though. Any thoughts?

The cam caps (girdle) are part number 07K-103-285-E. Made in Mexico, unlike the 2.5 TFSI which as you have pointed out is made in Germany. Perhaps you could tell us more about the differences in this part since you can see both.

As for the material of the head castings. The fact the pre-production heads have the same alloy composition markings as the 2.5 N/A could possibly be due to several reasons:

1. They are in fact the same composition.
2. They had not yet updated the number on their tooling but were cast in a different alloy.
3. The alloy composition was changed for production?

During some further reading I found some information indicating the alloy for the 2.5 TFSI to be ALSi7MgCu. Also commonly used for cylinder heads. But I guess time will tell. Right now, as you say, you have a cylinder header from a pre-prod 2.5 TFSI that has markings indicating AlSi10MgCu and that's the best we have to go off. :thumbup:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

zevion said:


> I have a couple of new 2.5 heads, part number 07K-103-373-D. The markings are as you say. AlSi10MgCu. The number preceding it is 9 on the one I have sitting in front of me, whereas yours is 12. I suspect this is something other than the alloy composition. Not sure what though. Any thoughts?


To be honest I have no idea what the 12 stands for. The head I have here is also 07K 103 373 D but that has a 12 on it not a 9.



zevion said:


> The cam caps (girdle) are part number 07K-103-285-E. Made in Mexico, unlike the 2.5 TFSI which as you have pointed out is made in Germany. Perhaps you could tell us more about the differences in this part since you can see both.


At first I thought it was because of the 5.0 V10 FSI but after sourcing a used S6 cylinder head the camshaft cap was completely different (flat @ the rear for the timing chain cover , not angled). The TFSI has provision to mount a fuel pump and dual camshaft position sensors (to aid with VVT).



zevion said:


> 3. The alloy composition was changed for production?


Wont know until a few weeks from now when our TTRS crate motor arrives.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

I look forward to seeing what secrets the production motor unlocks.

My guess is the production head is marked 07K 103 373 G and ALSi7MgCu.

This might indicate that the pre-production head was simply machined from a 2.5 N/A head.

Cheers :thumbup:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

zevion said:


> I look forward to seeing what secrets the production motor unlocks.
> 
> My guess is the production head is marked 07K 103 373 G and ALSi7MgCu.
> 
> ...


IMHO , it wouldnt really matter. The head being casted from a different material means nothing in the grand scheme of things.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

TTRS motor has arrived in the port!


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

TREKSportMK3 said:


> it actually seems this motor did get extra special attention when it came to the block alloy (GJV-450 compacted vermicular graphite cast iron) as 2.0ts including the uprated ones in the Golf R, s3 etc. are still constructed with gray cast iron. this engine, as stated before, could very well be the next flagship for power in the vw/audi world, and this alloy might be their next step for the standard of more strength and less weight. looking through other engines, i really haven't seen an example where this alloy has been used for vw/audi as their performance engines usualy seem to use the "alusil" aluminum-silicon alloy... are there any other instances of this alloy being used for vw/audi yet?


 Audi uses GJV-450 compacted vermicular graphite cast iron in their diesel engine blocks. From what I can see, Quattro GmbH, when told to create a TTRS, they were not given free reign to design a brand new engine from scratch, but could use anything in VAG's parsts bin. So given pretty much all of Audi's high tech engine were longitudal layout, their choice was to scour VW's bin, which pretty much had mostly low tech engines. The biggest practical engine was the 2.5, and they can't use aluminum in the casting when it was meant for iron, or else you will be getting cracked block left and right. The only thing they could do is something stronger, which meant CVG (or steel, which is besides being much harder to work with, brings up a host of other issues like damping).


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> TTRS motor has arrived in the port!


Any updates on this motor and this thread in general?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

zevion said:


> Any updates on this motor and this thread in general?


What information would you like?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I'd bet the question of cross-compatibility of the turbo might be one. If the motors do in fact share the same head, it seems like the turbine housing/manifold would mate to the N/A head.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

block material? same?


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'd bet the question of cross-compatibility of the turbo might be one. If the motors do in fact share the same head, it seems like the turbine housing/manifold would mate to the N/A head.


The RS turbo is adjusted on the cylinderhead in a different way.
Perhaps it's possible to modify the n.a. head in a way the RS turbo can be used but I don't know anyone who have tryed it.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> What information would you like?


Further information on the unanswered questions from earlier in the thread. Any new insights based on having a motor in your possession. 

What fun project is planned for the motor?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> block material? same?


The TT-RS block has the raised boses that you see on the 2.5 N/A motor machined and tapped for M8 and M10 hardware to support the angle drive and such. The material appears to be different but it could be because the motor is brand new.


[email protected] said:


> I'd bet the question of cross-compatibility of the turbo might be one. If the motors do in fact share the same head, it seems like the turbine housing/manifold would mate to the N/A head.


No , 2.5 20V N/A head has the studs perpendicular to the head flange. The 2.5 20V TFSI head has the studs at an angle similar to how the 2.0 FSI / TSI motors sit.
In short , without a custom flange the TTRS turbocharger will not bolt to the 2.5 20V cylinder head


zevion said:


> Further information on the unanswered questions from earlier in the thread. Any new insights based on having a motor in your possession.
> 
> What fun project is planned for the motor?


Can't really say other than it is 4 door. Not sure what questions you are referring to.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Not sure what questions you are referring to.


 What's the part number and alloy composition marked on the cylinder head?


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

88vwFox said:


> If you look at pic's of the 2.5 rabbit head next to the fsi 2.0t head the ports and set up look the same. It even has the same casting marks where the FSI holes would be. This 2.5 fsi just looks to ME ( i could be VERY wrong) to be the combo of the two. the 2.5l displacement with the fsi from the 2.0t. that and V.A.G. has already come out with the 2nd gen FSI known as TFSI or TSI. other than the updates from that it looks like a 2.5 with a stock turbo set-up. i can't wait to see the numbers that come from this car.


 It is the same wngine block 

http://jalopnik.com/5927227/audis-25-tfsi-is-five-cylinders-of-awesome 
 
id so drop this in my 2.5 jetta if i could... 

read the article it can take the stress of the turbo!!! yummmmmmmmmmmmm


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> No , 2.5 20V N/A head has the studs perpendicular to the head flange. The 2.5 20V TFSI head has the studs at an angle similar to how the 2.0 FSI / TSI motors sit.
> In short , without a custom flange the TTRS turbocharger will not bolt to the 2.5 20V cylinder head


 Interesting. I think I might do some studying up on this. :beer:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

zevion said:


> What's the part number and alloy composition marked on the cylinder head?


 Did not even check. Will do so this week. 

Doug, 
possibly modifying the Rabbit heads to accept the angled stud would / could work but TT-RS turbocharger by itself is more than a conventional turbo kit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Doug,
> possibly modifying the Rabbit heads to accept the angled stud would / could work but TT-RS turbocharger by itself is more than a conventional turbo kit.


 Hehe. You don't understand. Think about it: FrankenTurbo. It's not about modifying the car to fit the turbo. It's the other way 'round. I mean, why should rich guys get all the fun?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Hehe. You don't understand. Think about it: FrankenTurbo. It's not about modifying the car to fit the turbo. It's the other way 'round. I mean, why should rich guys get all the fun?


 Don't think you can modify the turbofold to fit the car Doug . Not as simple as the K04/K03 1.8T set ups.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm not expecting simple. Despite the fitment challenge, I am really interested in this. First step is for me to get my mitts on that K16 turbo.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

can angled studs be made?


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> can angled studs be made?


 That was a thought i had as well. I was also thinking a bolt on angled spacer that you could bolt the turbo mani to. But im sure the guy that makes turbo kits for a living has thought of these things lol.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

DerekH said:


> That was a thought i had as well. I was also thinking a bolt on angled spacer that you could bolt the turbo mani to. But im sure the guy that makes turbo kits for a living has thought of these things lol.


 i learned something once: people sometimes forget the easiest most obvious solutions. 

i think it can be made to be possible. i dont know if it would be cost effective thou


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> i learned something once: people sometimes forget the easiest most obvious solutions.
> 
> i think it can be made to be possible. i dont know if it would be cost effective thou


 Too true. 
You are correct, possible and cost effective do tend to be different things on a regular basis.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> i dont know if it would be cost effective thou


 It never will. When TTRS turbochargers become used then they get sent in for a hybrid upgrade. I have seen used turbos go for 1350 Euro's and up :thumbup:


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## PhAyzoN (Nov 29, 2010)

Would the intake manifold bolt up to our engine? If so, wonder if we'd see a benefit or not...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> I have seen used turbos go for 1350 Euro's and up :thumbup:


 Next time you see such a sale, point me in its direction; new, these turbos are difficult to come by.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Next time you see such a sale, point me in its direction; new, these turbos are difficult to come by.


 I have one now.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, then don't be a stranger. Email me. Else it's STK TURBO TECHNIK for me.


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## rspies (Feb 15, 2013)

*fit jetta MK5?*

I decide to upgrade my old Jetta 2.5 engine, but I found that a c2 turbocharger Kit stage 3 are much more expensive than change the engine by an audi tt 2.5tfsi one(used of course). Even if I include the intercooler and transmission its still cheaper than a turbo kit. Once the engines are very simillar, I think that I won't have many trouble doing that. Do you guys know what should I need to acomplish this engine replacement? I think I will need a stronger transmission because for what I know the jetta automatic transmission handles up to 250nm(some say 350nm) so I thought about the tt rs s-tronic automatic 7-speed transmission(600nm). I also know that the tt battery are on the trunk because of the extra room the turbo system needs, so I thought about doing the same with the jetta one or replace it for a slim profile lithium battery. What else do I need? Does the engine mounts fit the 2.5tfsi? Please I need some help.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Did not even check. Will do so this week.


Did you ever check the part number and alloy composition marked on the cylinder head as you said you would?


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

zevion said:


> Did you ever check the part number and alloy composition marked on the cylinder head as you said you would?


No
Will do when I have time. Not a priority right now.


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## rspies (Feb 15, 2013)

*HELP?*

Does anyone have the thechnical knowledge to help me in this?


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

if im hearing you right, you want to try and swap in the 2.5TFSI motor over tuboing your regular 2.5 motor? in the end i think the 2.5 with turbo kit will be cheaper bc of all the parts needed to swap to fsi, unless you already have a full donor 2.5 tfsi engine bay at your disposal, it's not just an easy swap. plus if youre not talking about swapping, the engine itself can b converted to standard injection but you'd need custom pistons, custom feuling, custom fuel rail, custom intake manifold, though you could probably get away with some components from the 2.5 standard injection engine, ur stil looking at a pretty tough job if you aren't good at fabrication or don't have deep pockets. I'm not gonna lie, this is almost every vw fan's dream engine, but it will cost you. It has really cool stuff in it that the regular 2.5 doesn't have, but if you really want the cheapest route, i'd say 2.5, port and polish the head, throw in some +1mm intake valves, forged rods and pistons, intake manifold turbo manifold etc you know, all the turbo goodies, but in the end you'll have an engine that will perform almost as good as the tfsi engine, you'lljust be losing out on a little extra power from direct injection and a little better timing as you won't have vvt on the regular 2.5... people have been making huge power witout both those options for a very long time, no biggie


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

TREKSportMK3 said:


> I'm not gonna lie, this is almost every vw fan's dream engine, but it will cost you. It has really cool stuff in it that the regular 2.5 doesn't have, ... but in the end you'll have an engine that will perform almost as good as the tfsi engine...


The VW motor has tons of potential. It just needs upgrade options which are priced suitably for the market.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The VW motor has tons of potential. It just needs upgrade options which are priced suitably for the market.


good luck with that...
The only guys really doing anything with the 2.5 motor are those swamping them into R32's and other various platforms. Trying to retrofit TT-RS components onto the regular motor is a complete waste of time. Better off starting from scratch.


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## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

thats what i was thinking, you could take a 2.0 tfsi engine and all its components to swap it into a mk3 and have a cool high performing engine. or for the cheaper cost, you could take a 20v head on top of a 2.0 block and have a pretty high performing engine and swap it into a mk3. the 2020 is going to be cheaper and pretty much just as good, but the tfsi into a mk3 does kind of give your car that extra cool factor or status. the 2.5tfsi is expensive, and for the next 10 to 15years will probably still be expensive. it comes in a $6x,xxx+ car that is pretty rare (never seen on in person), and then taking the price of everything else needed... its cool, when someone pulls it off well all be crazy excited andbow down, but if youre just trying to make power and have an effecient engine, there's no need for all that. look at it this way, a mk4 r32 has 241hp 237tq and a mk5 has 247hp and 237 tq, so a 6 hp and 0 tq gain is made from direct injection, is that worth every dollar youre going to spend on each little component to get it to work for that small of a gain? i think not. tech is cool, but not necessary. plus what if something blows? would you rather pay thousands of dollars for your really cool engine, or $500 for another 2.5 out of a rabbit or jetta?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

INA said:


> good luck with that...


Better lucky than good, I like to say.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Better lucky than good, I like to say.


If you wanted a picture of that I couldve given you one 2 years ago...:laugh:
By the time you make the adapter plate (you need to remove the top row of exhaust manifolds studs from the cylinder head) a downpipe that joins to the OEM exhaust system , oil & coolant lines AND you factor in the cost of a TTRS turbocharger you are DOUBLE what a C2 motorsport kit would cost.
OR...you could just do it to be cool.


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## biggerbigben (Jan 21, 2004)

INA said:


> If you wanted a picture of that I couldve given you one 2 years ago...:laugh:
> By the time you make the adapter plate (you need to remove the top row of exhaust manifolds studs from the cylinder head) a downpipe that joins to the OEM exhaust system , oil & coolant lines AND you factor in the cost of a TTRS turbocharger you are DOUBLE what a C2 motorsport kit would cost.
> OR...you could just do it to be cool.


:laugh:


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## rspies (Feb 15, 2013)

TREKSportMK3 said:


> if im hearing you right, you want to try and swap in the 2.5TFSI motor over tuboing your regular 2.5 motor? in the end i think the 2.5 with turbo kit will be cheaper bc of all the parts needed to swap to fsi, unless you already have a full donor 2.5 tfsi engine bay at your disposal, it's not just an easy swap. plus if youre not talking about swapping, the engine itself can b converted to standard injection but you'd need custom pistons, custom feuling, custom fuel rail, custom intake manifold, though you could probably get away with some components from the 2.5 standard injection engine, ur stil looking at a pretty tough job if you aren't good at fabrication or don't have deep pockets. I'm not gonna lie, this is almost every vw fan's dream engine, but it will cost you. It has really cool stuff in it that the regular 2.5 doesn't have, but if you really want the cheapest route, i'd say 2.5, port and polish the head, throw in some +1mm intake valves, forged rods and pistons, intake manifold turbo manifold etc you know, all the turbo goodies, but in the end you'll have an engine that will perform almost as good as the tfsi engine, you'lljust be losing out on a little extra power from direct injection and a little better timing as you won't have vvt on the regular 2.5... people have been making huge power witout both those options for a very long time, no biggie


 In fact it was offered to me a full 2.5tfsi engine including injection and turbo system, and I do have a 7 speed transmission(2 wheels) for it, both from an audi tt rs and all in great condition. It will cost me only 2,000 for both. But I need to know what else I will need to change the engines and transmissions. Any one have any idea? I am making many changes to my old 2007 2.5 jetta, including: 1-Headliner, seats, floor and doors in whiskey leather; 2-wood panel console and details; 3-chrome trins, door handles, buttons and side mirrors; 4-new 8'' dvd player with hear view camera; 5-dark chrome plotting. Next step is 6-engine and transmission; and probably 7-active suspension and 8-new audi style headlights. Interior and exterior are almost done. I can send the pictures as soon as I finish it, but I do need some help with mechanics.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

I feel like this needs a little bumpy-poo.

Hopefully Doug and his Frankenturbo setup can make another option for a kit soon!


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

itskohler said:


> can make another option for a kit soon!


For who to buy :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

...anyone who wants 450bhp for less than 2 grand, I suppose.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

That'd be me.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> ...anyone who wants 450bhp for less than 2 grand, I suppose.



"2.5 20V TFSI Turbolader - 07K145701B - Your price = $2344.19 USD"
That price is my price without shipping , duty or taxes.

Not doubting that you can make an affordable kit out of this but even used turbochargers still fetch a fair coin on ebay.de and other breakers around the globe.

Then you will need:


Oil & Coolant line kit - $350
Modified OEM oil pan w/10-AN oil return - 125
Downpipe adapter to OEM 2.5 Rabbit exhaust system - $250-300
Custom inlet kit - $300?$350?
Adapter kit for FSI flange to 2.5 cylinder head - $200?$300?


I fail to see how this can be achieved for less than $3000 let alone less than $2000!?
If you can source TT-RS replacement turbochargers for under $2000 USD then sign me up as I would buy 5 today


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

For starters, I don't sell BorgWarner turbos. Plus you're forgetting about intercooler and charge piping. But I'm not.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

A welded manifold like blue waters only costs about $100 to make, out the door. An intake, figure $50. Downpipe adapter would be $100ish. Charge piping would be about 100-150 for aluminum.

It'd be very easy to put together (manufacture) a kit for 1500-2000. But that's not retail. My time, at least, is worth more than manufacturing a kit at 1500 and selling at 2000. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

After a long time of patience I have buy an TT-RS engine with LOBA LO500P Turbo, CNC Machine intake pipe and Fuel pump etc.

I will put this engine into my Seat Leon Supercopa and thougt that I didn't have work on this engine, but I whas disappoint when I take a look at the inlet valves 

This engine have driven only 11K km and there is a'lot dirt on this inlet valves becouse there is no fuel anymore what will cool and clean his inlet valves.
I have chosen for rebuild this engine and I want 5 injectors extra for into the inlet manifold so I will have more fuel and it will clean and cool the inlet valves.
On this way I will pit in other (Lower compresion) pistons in it and other/stronger rods etc.

I think that this engine is not for the big power but it have an very wide powerband with a lot torque at low rpm what is perfect for my Supercopa wat is for race track and not for the 1/4 mile 

The engine with all parts like wiring and ECU etc:



















The stock and the Loba turbo (Stock is Left and the Loba is Right) :



















The stock turbo intake is above and the CNC Machine is below:










The Carbon covers what can buy as option:










The part what we are making for an extra row injectors:


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DutchWilco said:


> The part what we are making for an extra row injectors:


What about the part you were making for us 4 years ago?


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

INA said:


> What about the part you were making for us 4 years ago?


Hello Issam, I don't know what part you are talking about, please can you explain?

Not all parts will be in production because we can draw nice parts like you can also but you will know that sometimes the production is or to expensive or not possible with the machines etc. 
When you can let me know what you mean, maybe I have still have the drawings ?


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DutchWilco said:


> Hello Issam, I don't know what part you are talking about, please can you explain?
> 
> Not all parts will be in production because we can draw nice parts like you can also but you will know that sometimes the production is or to expensive or not possible with the machines etc.
> When you can let me know what you mean, maybe I have still have the drawings ?


Wilco,
I am talking about the $1400+ USD belonging to INA Engineering Inc. that was paid for services / parts that we are still waiting for that you have asked us to keep private and off the forums under the assumption that you were given enough time to make it right. 
If you want to advertise your products in this forum or on VWVortex then get an advertising account.Peddling for more work or showing off "cool" parts to entice new customers when you have old customers to take care of is frowned upon.
Do what is right.:thumbup:


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

INA said:


> Wilco,
> I am talking about the $1400+ USD belonging to INA Engineering Inc. that was paid for services / parts that we are still waiting for that you have asked us to keep private and off the forums under the assumption that you were given enough time to make it right.
> If you want to advertise your products in this forum or on VWVortex then get an advertising account.Peddling for more work or showing off "cool" parts to entice new customers when you have old customers to take care of is frowned upon.
> Do what is right.:thumbup:



Hello Issam, You know that I lose more Money than you on the project what was for you. On this project what you want we have lose both Money now and is not my fould. You know that I have spent 3K for your project and I have driven for 2 day's for pick-up this body wile you have pay less than half and not more than this until 7 monads after this. 
I was started with your project and I have buy more parts than only this shell becouse I trust you. After 7 Monads you didn't have pay the other half yet and after spoken with you for several times I must make the dissision to stop this. You can't go on with this project becouse you didn't have the Money on that time becouse you was waiting on some Money from the lawer what doesn't çame after someone have cheat you what is hard for you offcourse. I have to do my work for pay my bills and I need room for working. We don't have that room in our small Country like you becouse I didn't has anough room for holding this project-car for years so I must stop this.
This is all what I can say about our adventure. It's sad for both of us becouse this was not my choice and not what you has want also but it was nacesary and you know this. 
I'll hope that there will come one day that you will realise this and what you will do or want, nothing will change.
I have enough Money for pay you so we are out of this problem but I don't do this becouse why must I lose the complete money on this project what was yours ? You have right when I have sell this parts, but no, I didn't becouse the half was from you. I have let pick-up this parts for old metal and nothing more. Now I think back it was better for try to sell this body and parts so we could get a little money back what we could chare but on that time I was very dissapoint after I hear from you again that you didn't have the Money for the second half again and do I have make another disission, sorry for that. 

The other problem you have with v. Kronenburg is an hole different story. I'm for sure that they are fould and that you must get your Money. I have try to help you, but after what you have done to me I have stoped this help. 

What I have posted is not for promotion becouse this parts are not for sale 
I have spoken with the people about sponsoring but they ask more Money than I can make so I will lose what I doesn't want. On the other side you have to know that I'm not an seller but an builder so I have make the choice for going on as private person.

You have promise me to open the 4wd thread again but you didn't have done this. I'll post only private things and nothing more. 

This is for my own/private car and I try to let the people know that the stock TT-RS is not that perfect what the most people think and that the normal aspirated 2.5L engine is a good choice for when you want the big power 

I put this in this thread becouse I have placed more questions and info bevore and I have learn a'lot in between time and will let this know. On the otherside I have hope that some people have ideas or other solutions for the FSI fuel problems. I have call with APR and they are busy with an Turbo-kit what will have 600bhp and I think that this is not possible with only the FSI-injectors and maybe do someone know an good solution what is easier than what I'm busy with.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DutchWilco said:


> The other problem you have with v. Kronenburg is an hole different story. I'm for sure that they are fould and that you must get your Money. I have try to help you, but after what you have done to me I have stoped this help.


V. Kronenburg & us are settled. They apologized for the time it took for them to do there end of the bargain and we moved foward. lesson learn't and we continue with business.


DutchWilco said:


> You have promise me to open the 4wd thread again but you didn't have done this. I'll post only private things and nothing more.


And I will still promise to do that once you conclude our business. 


DutchWilco said:


> I have enough Money for pay you so we are out of this problem but I don't do this becouse why must I lose the complete money on this project what was yours ? You have right when I have sell this parts, but no, I didn't becouse the half was from you. I have let pick-up this parts for old metal and nothing more. Now I think back it was better for try to sell this body and parts so we could get a little money back what we could chare but on that time I was very dissapoint after I hear from you again that you didn't have the Money for the second half again and do I have make another disission, *sorry* for that.


Sorry? 
If we did what you did to any one of INA's customers it would be all over the forums and would have destroyed our business but we kept it private...
Regardless of the excuses , you have no right to sell/destroy/crush/burn/whatever an item that does not belong to you. We would have happily made arrangements to remove our property from your premises and closed off our business with the outstanding balance had we been given the opportunity to do so. 
Look you make great products and I am happy to see how you have grown over the last few years but showing off shiney new parts that you are working on does not make what you did any better. 
If you are willing to re-open a dialogue that would end with some form of compensation I am all ears but this is now a public matter and the choice is on you to make it right.
Issam


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

INA said:


> V. Kronenburg & us are settled. They apologized for the time it took for them to do there end of the bargain and we moved foward. lesson learn't and we continue with business.
> 
> And I will still promise to do that once you conclude our business.
> 
> ...



On that moment 4 years ago you want let build an project-car. I must build the body with 4MOTION and cage etc and you can put in your own build engine etc what was a good idea. After making a list for what you want and need and making a plan you have pay only 1400 Dollar. I startet with pick-up the body in Berlin, buy parts and work a couple of days on it. Only the parts where 3K but the hour's of work is normal 45 Euro Hour and is also more than the 1400 you have paid. After a few weeks I ask about the second payment so I can go on (becouse I'm allready in with too much Money) you tell me that you didn't have this money. So I ask every week again until we are 7 monads ago and you tell me that you doesn't have that Money and that you are bank rupt and that you don't have an site from INA becouse you don't may this from your couverment etc, do other people know this about you, or do you have lying this to me ?

After hearing this I took my losses and trow away your parts and go on so I don't make more losses and can go on with my other work and live.
You also need to know that I have buy this Bora 4MOTION body with the papers from UK. On this reason I couln't make any money on this in our own Country. This becouse an car must be complete stock when you want this on Dutch papers. For you it doesn't make any different if you import this car out of the UK or the Netherlands 

I still have all pictures and invoices etc from this car. It was a'long time ago that I have seen this pictures again, but it's hard that it must end like this.

Now in short:
Now you buy part from me, let me work, pay less than half and want your Money back 

I'm for sure that all people that are reading this story from our passed adventure will understant that the real is that you have to pay my losses and not that you will get this Money back so I will get all Losses wile you have buy and order this by yourself wile everything was clear 

You can go on with this or stoped, nothing will change. Only thing is that I like your work and you like mine but we have a disagreement what will never end so long as you will go on. I have accept my losses and it's now up to you, please think about this ? 

I'm glad to hear that everything is ok now between you and v.Kronenburg. I have try to couple you so you can sell your parts to them. It was very sad to hear that there where problems between you and them after I only try to help you both.

I will stop this discussion on this threat but when you want tell or ask more you can always send me an Mail or private massage


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DutchWilco said:


> Now in short:
> Now you buy part from me, let me work, pay less than half and want your Money back


In our world this is exactly what would happen. Sample scenario for you using my business as a model.


Customer asks us for a custom CNC part , lets say an intake manifold.
We quote the customer $1500 USD.
Customer agrees and pays us $700 USD so we start making the part so now we have time + material involved.
Half way through we ask the customer for another $300 to continue. Customer tells us to show him the progress of what we have done. We do not.
Months past and we do not hear from the customer


At this point the customer has 3 options:


The part is placed on the shelf until he is ready to sort the balance.
the customer is told if he wants the part he would have to pay the difference or we sell the part to someone else and reimburse him for some of the loss.
the customer will not recieve a refund of $700 period as the part has started,


Not option 4 which is:
4. Destroy the part and count your loses

How do you think this would play out on the forums Wilco?


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

INA said:


> In our world this is exactly what would happen. Sample scenario for you using my business as a model.
> 
> 
> Customer asks us for a custom CNC part , lets say an intake manifold.
> ...


I'l hope that you are wise enough to know that an project-car is not like a parts as manifold and is an longer and more difficult story what need a'lot of time and room.

I have chosen option 4 becouse am different reasons.

- it was not possible to sell this with UK-papers in our Country.

- it was not an little thing as manifold what I can put away into an closed for a few monads or years untill you have pay the complete part. 

- With some small parts I couln't make the chose for send you some parts up to your payment but you didn't have the money for shipping this big shell :screwy:

- With parts you sell the parts but on this way I have work for this money and that must pay by you becouse it was your order and I have done a'lot work for you.

I like the forums, and I'm not woried 

Maybe I will get away all off my posts tomorrow so the people can go on with those very nice engines, but we will see


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DutchWilco said:


> - it was not possible to sell this with UK-papers in our Country.


And this is the issue. No one asked you to sell it or destroy it. :screwy:

simply if you had come to me and said 
"Issam we can't continue with this project because we do not have space"
We would have been in a different position today.


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

INA said:


> And this is the issue. No one asked you to sell it or destroy it. :screwy:
> 
> simply if you had come to me and said
> "Issam we can't continue with this project because we do not have space"
> We would have been in a different position today.


Today is 4 year later, what do you think ?

I have also sell parts and stoped with an project in the time I didn't have enough money wile I have regret now I have enough.

When we know everything in before will be this live a lot easier, but sometimes you have to make fould for learning and this is for both of us now 

With buying an part you can buy this on the time you have enough money for this.

You can make some money before you start a project-car, but a project-car is a big thing what will during a longer time and what need a lot different parts. 
Becouse this is an long way you can get problems half way becouse you lose money on other things what you didn't have thought before as exemple. When you are busy on your own car and didn't have money anymore you can make the choise for sell this so you lose money or put it away for a time up to the day you have make some new money again. 
In this situation is standing this car by a company what must make money so he can buy his bills. Every day that this car is on my workshop it will cost money and my patience was empty after 7 monads. The problem now is that you can't pick-up this by yourself and that you also didn't have the money for shipping this.

I was a good chance for building togheter a nice and unique project-car but the luck was not with us so we lose both our money and still have nothing or only problems with each other on the end and I'm not happy with this.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DutchWilco said:


> Today is 4 year later, what do you think ?


Send me one of those haldex kits and consider it squashed


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

INA said:


> Send me one of those haldex kits and consider it squashed


When this will end this problems I will do this for you.

Please let me know for what kind off car you need this so I can send you the right one ?


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

DutchWilco said:


> When this will end this problems I will do this for you.
> 
> Please let me know for what kind off car you need this so I can send you the right one ?


MKII Golf/Corrado


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

INA said:


> MKII Golf/Corrado



OK, When you will open the 4MOTION thread and trow away the things you have place on FB from HR-Engineering and on this thread I will send you an Haldex-kit for free.

You don't have the right on this parts but it is worth for me when you will do this for me.

When you are affraid that I didn't send you this after you have done what I ask, it's black on white and every person can read here what I promise you. Only than we can let everything behind us


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

maybe a dumb question.. but is the TTRS oil cooler the same as the vw cooler?

if not, are they interchangeable?


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## DutchWilco (Jul 14, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> maybe a dumb question.. but is the TTRS oil cooler the same as the vw cooler?
> 
> if not, are they interchangeable?


It's not an dumb question 

The ölfilter housing and the cooler are the same from the TT-RS and the the normal 2.5


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

DutchWilco said:


> It's not an dumb question
> 
> The ölfilter housing and the cooler are the same from the TT-RS and the the normal 2.5


Oh, thanks fir the answer. I was expecting an oem oil cooler upgrade.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

This is just bad ass!


[email protected] said:


> APR is pleased to present the TT RS 2.5 TFSI Stage III GTX Turbocharger System!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MK5_GUY (Aug 17, 2014)

So could I just get all the turbo goodies (manifold, intercooler, turbo, injectors, etc.) from a TT RS and transfer them onto the stock vw engine?


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

IIRC the cylinder heads are slightly different (although I'm not positive). I vaguely remember reading that the studs for the exhaust manifold are in different locations. With that being said you might be able to drill and tap for new studs if that was the case.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

MK5_GUY said:


> So could I just get all the turbo goodies (manifold, intercooler, turbo, injectors, etc.) from a TT RS and transfer them onto the stock vw engine?





mk6matt said:


> IIRC the cylinder heads are slightly different (although I'm not positive). I vaguely remember reading that the studs for the exhaust manifold are in different locations. With that being said you might be able to drill and tap for new studs if that was the case.


I suppose you could just weld the K16 turbo's cylinder head flange to one for a NA 2.5L. But you're still left with figuring out oil and coolant lines, routing the exhaust etc. And the TTRS has an entirely different fueling system, so forget about the direct-port injectors used on that car. Bottom line, stitching that expensive OEM K16 turbo onto your 07K motor isn't a practical ambition. That's why we're developing something which will be.


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## Matti von Kessing (Jan 17, 2011)

mk6matt said:


> IIRC the cylinder heads are slightly different (although I'm not positive). I vaguely remember reading that the studs for the exhaust manifold are in different locations. With that being said you might be able to drill and tap for new studs if that was the case.


Yup. Whereas our NA exhaust studs are drilled perpendicular to the flange surface, the TTRS uses angled studs like on the 2.0 TSI. So by the time you buy the TTRS stock turbo, then make modifications to either your cylinder head or the stock exhaust manifold, you're in the territory of just buying a new exhaust manifold designed specifically for our cars from APR or Frankenturbo.

NA 2.5:










TTRS 2.5:


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## RBT-Tuned (Dec 24, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I suppose you could just weld the K16 turbo's cylinder head flange to one for a NA 2.5L. But you're still left with figuring out oil and coolant lines, routing the exhaust etc. And the TTRS has an entirely different fueling system, so forget about the direct-port injectors used on that car. Bottom line, stitching that expensive OEM K16 turbo onto your 07K motor isn't a practical ambition. *That's why we're developing something which will be*.


Can you elaborate further on development?


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

RBT-Tuned said:


> Can you elaborate further on development?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7021172-FrankenTurbo-F25-Prototyping-amp-Testing


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

DutchWilco said:


> It's not an dumb question
> 
> The ölfilter housing and the cooler are the same from the TT-RS and the the normal 2.5


The cooler is larger on the TT-RS.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

On the TTRS ----> 07k N/A turbo front, it is not too difficult to put a TTRS manifold on a N/A head. On the bottom row, you will need 2 new holes drilled and tapped, on the top you will need 1 hole welded up and re drilled, another hole just drilled and tapped. They are angled, and require tapered washers. The TTRS lower clamps should be used as well. But yes, it is possible 
Hank


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

RBT-Tuned said:


> Can you elaborate further on development?


The FrankenTurbo F25 will be a vigorous counterpoint to the K16 used in the TTRS. The F25 will have a larger, billet compressor wheel, larger turbine A/R & modern MixedFlow turbine rotor. I think any 07K motor fitted with an F25 will be a very strong match to a stock-turbo TTRS. And obviously the budget is a whole lot cheaper.


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## RBT-Tuned (Dec 24, 2013)

mk6matt said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7021172-FrankenTurbo-F25-Prototyping-amp-Testing





[email protected] said:


> The FrankenTurbo F25 will be a vigorous counterpoint to the K16 used in the TTRS. The F25 will have a larger, billet compressor wheel, larger turbine A/R & modern MixedFlow turbine rotor. I think any 07K motor fitted with an F25 will be a very strong match to a stock-turbo TTRS. And obviously the budget is a whole lot cheaper.


Thanks for the details. Definitely hoping you will support the 09 MK5 Rabbit in the near future :thumbup::beer:


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