# My Highway Toll Tag does not work in the Phaeton



## schlitzie (Oct 22, 2004)

Couldn't find a working location due to the metallized glass, so I requested an external tag.... Since i do not have a front license plate, I tried to mount the external tag under the grill, but I assume it needs to "see" the reader, as it does not work... Anybody have a solution that keeps the big hunk of ugly plastic somewhat concealed but still allows it to work? Thanks!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: EZ PASS - Where to mount the %#& thing? (schlitzie)*

Hi Michael:
Welcome back - long time, no hear.
I encountered a similar problem with the transponder that the 407 ETR toll highway here in Canada uses. There is simply no place inside a W12 Phaeton (which has metallized foil on all windows) that the transponder can be mounted. The policy of the highway here is that if your car has a metallized windshield, you phone them and get put on a 'metallized windshield list' - that way, when the toll camera takes the photo of your car, you don't get charged the extra fee for not having a transponder.
If you want your transponder to function for the purpose of letting you through a gate in a special lane, rather than just avoiding a toll photo charge, the only super-simple answer I can think of is to hold the thing up to the sunroof glass, and see if that will do the trick. Another thing you could try - I don't know if this will work or not - is to mount the external tag behind the front left grill fascia, where the radar measuring device for the automatic distance regulation system goes. That is kind of low on the car, maybe the sensor will pick it up, or maybe not. There is a photo showing the location of the radar transmitter at this link: Active Cruise Control - Details and Photos. That particular cover is held on with two screws that are very easy to get access to, so it should not be very difficult to take the cover off and mount the thing behind it.
Note that the front fenders of the Phaeton are made of plastic (see this post: front quarter panel and ...), so another possibility might be to mount the external tag to the underside of one of the front fenders. Probably the easiest way to get access to this area would be to remove the wheel well liner from one of the front wheels, then just reach up in there and attach the external tag somewhere proximate to the inner surface of the plastic fender.
Good luck...
Michael



_Modified by PanEuropean at 7:54 PM 2-15-2005_


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Not to brag, but those of us with lowly V8 model Phaetons (without the metalized windscreen of the W12) simply place our EZ-PASS transmitters out-of-sight in the center console. Amazingly, the signal gets read just fine.
- Dave


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Interesting observation. Although I am on the 'metallized windshield' list for our local toll highway, I still have a transponder, which I also keep in the center console, in case I need to take it out and use it in another vehicle. When I get the bill at the end of each month from the highway, I can see that about 1/3 of the time, the sensors on the overhead gantry have detected the presence of the transponder in my car. My guess is that they are detecting it via the glass sunroof, which (on all North American Phaetons) has no metallic foil in it.
Michael


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## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*skeptical curiosity*

is the functional purpose of the metallic foil truly effective?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: skeptical curiosity (snw)*

For the purpose of reducing solar heating of the cabin? Yes, it is very effective.


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## PassatWheels (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: EZ PASS - Where to mount the %#& thing? (schlitzie)*

I don't think the EZPass transponder needs to "see" the system. It is not a line of site system...Maybe you need to move it it around under the grill...or see if it will accept an external antenna and put it in the glove box...
------------
The description below is from this web site.
*The Basics of EZ Pass Electronic Toll Collection System*
These are the basic components that make up the EZ Pass Electronic Toll Collection System:
* Transponder
* Antenna
* Lane controller - This is a computer that controls the lane equipment and tracks vehicles passing through. It is networked on a local area network (LAN).
* Host computer system - All of the toll plaza LANs are connected to a central database via a wide area network (WAN).
You generally have to pay a deposit usually to your local Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) to get a transponder. _It's about the size of a deck of cards. Place it on the inside of the windshield behind the rearview mirror. A transponder is a battery-operated, radio frequency identification (RFID) unit that transmits radio signals. It is a two-way radio with a microprocessor that operate in the 900 MHz band. Account information, like your ID number, is stored inside._
Antennas, or electronic readers, are positioned above each toll lane. These antennas send out radio frequencies that communicate with the transponder. It usually detects about 6 to 10 feet wide and about 10 feet long. The antenna reads the transponder and then automatically deduct the toll from your prepaid account.



_Modified by PassatWheels at 7:20 AM 2-17-2005_


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## schlitzie (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: EZ PASS - Where to mount the %#& thing? (PassatWheels)*

Hi Again Michael (and everyone else!) --
I am actually in here all the time, I just rarely post; although I will probably be a bit more active soon as I am getting ready to get a new cell phone, so I want one that will tie in to the car LIKE THE ONES THAT I WAS TOLD EXIST AT THE DEALERSHIP BEFORE I SIGNED THE PAPERS.... (sorry, the phone thing drives me crazy.) 
Anyway, maybe the Pennsylvania system is different, as I get EZ PASS violations all the time, and I have both the external tag AND the internal tag in the car. Oh, and there is no difference in windshields between V8 and V12 variants (I have the V8). 
I have been using the internal tag suction cupped to the sunroof with success, but 1) it looks ugly and 2) I worry that my wife or i will forget it is there and open the glass, tearing up something ridiculously expensive to repair...
I guess the best option is to monkey around with my grill placement on the external tag and look for a happier spot. I'll be sure to report back if I am successful


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

A friend and fellow Phaeton V8 driver has their EZ-Pass mounted about 2 inches down from the top of the windshield, just to the left of the rear view mirror. They've had the car since last fall and had no EZ-Pass issues. They routinely drive in NY, NJ and MA.
Since I’m just passing through the region, I still end up in the slow (cash) lanes. Funny how many tollbooth attendants know what a Phaeton is…


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Has anyone come up with a solid solution for tolltags under the grill?
PhaetonChix - can you explain WHY the tolltag works 'about 2 inches down from the top of the windshield...' but not anywhere else on the windshield?
Right now, I'm having to hold up the tolltag to the sunroof or out of it as I pass through the readers on the Dallas North Tollroad and to get in and out of my community gates. Having to hold the tolltag up each time is really lame -- I'm craving for a fixed solution that works! Anyone?
Thanks,
Logan.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: (loganflatt)*

I've never had a toll tag because I rarely use toll roads, and I thought there was a time limit. Now I find out they don't expire until used and I'm going to get one. 
The toll tag people told me on the phone that they have something they put on the REAR license plate that works. (For people where the windshield doesn't pass the signal.)
Is that correct, do you think?


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (Jack Orr)*

I have an external EZ-Pass issued in NY that is designed to mount on the front plate. I think that's too vulnerable so I'm going to put it in one of the front openings below the grill.
My regular EZ-Pass works fine on my V8 windshield but I want to get it off there.


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (Jack Orr)*

Jack,
That very well could work for the toll booths. I don't think it will work on my gates though -- they seem to need direct exposure to the tag, almost line of site it seems like.
I suppose I'll give the Tolltag Store a call as well and see what they say.
Logan.


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## Tail Spin (Oct 28, 2004)

So the v-8 does not have the foil in the windshield. I got a notice from EZ-Pass saying I had an unpaid toll, so I thought the Phaeton glass was a problem.
But it looks like on the v-8's winshield mount should be just fine, right?
Thanks.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (Tail Spin)*

Like I said above, I've never had a problem.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*

My Florida Sunpass works fine on the windshield of my V8 and so does the V1 radar detector. I think only the W12 has the foil in glass type windshield. 
Rob


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Jack Orr)*

*Archival Note -* Related topic: For Illinois posters: I-PASS transponder not communicating


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here's a good picture showing how to mount a transponder on the outside of a W12 Phaeton.
*External Transponder*


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hello Michael,
When time allows, I would like to be able to see the photo of the externally mounted toll transponder for a W12. Thanks.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (remrem)*

Done.
Michael


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## deja_vu95 (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I keep my EZpass on the sunroof. The power shade is not hindered by this, and the signal is transmitted fine. I have a W12 model.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (deja_vu95)*

Are you saying you have it affixed to the sunroof glass or to the shade?, And it doesn't interfere at all with the operation of the sunroof or the sunshade? If so, that might be the answer for me. Thanks. 
Also, have any of you experienced cell phone (everyday handheld cell phones, not the integrated phones that came witha few of these cars) reception problems because of the metallized glass?


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: (remrem)*

I didn't like having the EZ-Pass tag stuck to the windshield, so I did something a bit drastic and cracked open the case to get the raw circuit board (with antenna and battery) and stuffed it up with the homelink and rain sensor - I did use the dremel to trim off some of the unecessary parts of the circuit board so it would fit better - it is out of sight, works fine, and does not interfere with the homelink!
Inside the E-Z Pass:


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (CLMims)*

This is exactly what I want to do. So what you're saying though is it's completely out of sight, as in no opening to the windshield? And the EZ-Pass receivers can pick it up anyway through your roof? Sounds like the perfect solution to me if that's the case.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Grrr, so I mounted the ez-pass circuitboard on top of homelink (between it and the windsheild), and went through my first tollbooth. Didnt recognize it at all. Any mounting suggestions from people who have done this before? I mean the board looks to be perfectly intact, but I'm wondering if perhaps that spot on the windshield is no good?


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

The spot (inside the foot of the rear view mirror, on the right) is perfect for me and the French Telepeage system. Works nowhere else (I have a V8 with IR glass).
In fact in my case, I didn't have to remove the case. There was enough room to slide in the rather bulky transponder.
P.


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Brian,
I had to Dremel some of the dead space off the circuit board to get it to fit up against the windshield, around the curve of the battery then straight down across the side of the antenna (which is the "C"-shaped thicker wire in the circuit board) - I put a bit of thin foam wrap around the sides so it wouldn't rattle, but make sure the antenna is not blocked by the foam and that the battery is facing down toward the interior of the car, not against the windshield....
(I think I also oriented the board so the battery side was on the right)










_Modified by CLMims at 11:19 AM 11-23-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Zaphh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zaphh* »_The spot (inside the foot of the rear view mirror, on the right) is perfect for me and the French Telepeage system. Works nowhere else (I have a V8 with IR glass).

The 'spot' that Zaphh is referring to is directly aft of the little 'window' in the glass that is used for the Homelink transmitter.
All Phaetons have two small 'windows' in the windshield, located either side of the inside rear view mirror post. One is used for the rainsensor and the other is used (on North American vehicles) for the Homelink remote garage door opener transmitter.
What makes these little windows special is that they are NOT coated with the same infra-red reflective coating that is found on all NAR W12 Phaetons, and on ROW Phaetons that have been ordered with an infra-red reflective windshield. Therefore, the radio waves that operate these little tollbooth transmitters can pass through the glass - something that is not possible if you put the transmitter behind any part of the rest of the windshield that has the IR coating on it.
I own a NAR spec W12. It is equipped with a rainsensor on one side, and the Homelink transmitter on the other side. Despite the presence of the Homelink transmitter, I have been able to squeeze in a little GPS antenna just forward of the Homelink transmitter and directly underneath the Homelink window (an idea I got from Terrence in the UK), and this antenna works just fine from that location.
Below is a photo showing where the Homelink transmitter is mounted. Unlike the rainsensor, it is not mounted flush with the glass, so it is possible to put something else in there to 'share' the window with the Homelink transmitter.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

For more information about removing the little panel that the Homelink transmitter is attached to, see this post: 
Mirror, Front Overhead Control Panel Assembly Removal Instructions.
Do not, under any circumstances, touch, fool with, try to remove, investigate, poke at, or otherwise harass the rainsensor. The rainsensor must have a perfectly flat and patent seal against the glass in order to work properly. If you try to dislodge the rainsensor, odds are 20 to 1 in favour of you unintentionally breaking it during the process. Again: Don't touch the rainsensor - leave it well enough alone!
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Why the toll-pass signals do not easily pass through the main body of the windshield:


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Thank you all for your very informative posts. My Phaeton is currently in the shop for flickering headlights (hopefully the CPO warranty will cover them), but as soon as it's out I will try again. 
Michael and CLMims- That is actually where I squeezed the receiver, between the homelink and the windshield. One thing I didn't think about was which side of the board was facing the glass. My receiver is a little different than CLMims in that it has a cylandrical battery, but now that I think about it, I believe I may have put it upside down. I did this at 11:00 one night, so it's very possible I made a mistake.
I'll let you all know how it goes.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

I got my car back and repositioned the ez-pass, this time with the correct side of the board facing the glass. I actually taped it directly to the windshield, making sure to not block any part of the antenna. 
I went up to my first toll booth yesterday, and it was not awesome. It was one of the booths with the bars that raise, not just a drive-thru. Yeah, didn't sense my ez-pass. I'm thinking that perhaps I somehow damaged the unit in disassembling it? I didn't have to do any cutting to fit it up there, so maybe the fact that I melted the plastic casing away with my soldering iron (like a spy with a welding torch). Any ideas? Should I get a new one and try again, or just resign to an ugly white thing on my windshield?


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

I guess one way to find out is to try a toll booth with the EZ-pass on the dash (or taped to the windshield where it was originally located) - that should let you know if the unit is no longer working; is the battery replaceable? Perhaps it got jostled/damaged and a new one might work....
(Sorry for the inconvenience!)
I seem to recall having to pry the plastic casing off in pieces with a small screwdriver before I found where the connecting points were...


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (CLMims)*

No worries. We'll get this problem solved eventually. I'm going to take a multimeter to the damn thing today and see whats up.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

I tested the device today with a multimeter and it seems to be at least getting power, and I don't see any obvious signs of damage. I noticed there is an opaque border around the "little window" behind the homelink unit, and I'm wondering if that doesn't allow signal through. I may have not aligned it carefully enough last time, so we'll see this time around, with the antenna flush against the little window, how it works.


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## Aren Jay (Jun 9, 2009)

*Re:*

Given that we don't have toll roads in Alberta, this is a guess, but could you hook this into the radio/gps antenna? Or, how about underside of the side mirror depending on the size of the unit.


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Sometime between 2003 and 2010, the manufacturer changed the batteries in these units. I asked EZPass for more info and they couldn't answer the question. If you are going to do this, I suggest you start by getting a new unit before you even start the process. 

Audi Bob and I cut two of these apart and put them into two Phaetons. We didn't need to cut the green board itself and we were able to position the antenna in the one inch square viewing window. The old unit worked intermittently. The new unit worked consistently. A lot of miles were traveled to find out this information.

The new style has a battery that is similar in diameter to a AA but about one third the length. I looks like it is attached to the housing but if you cut the soft glue with a knife, it comes out easily. 

When positioning the unit, we turned it 90 degrees so that it is essentially 9x16 vs 16x9. We had the electronic side of the board facing the interior of the car which is the way it is oriented in the white box.

When cutting the white box open, a hack saw in the grooves on all four sides worked best for us. 

As I put the old unit back into its box for return, it will be interesting to see if they charge me $25. They claim that if there is any damage, they will not refund your money even though it is seven years old with a flat battery. Considering that Governor Rendell was trying to sell our tollroads, I wouldn't be surprised if they make me buy the old transponder.

Is it worth it? If it is not visible, it is one less reason for some young tuff to try and break into the car.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Steve:

The front fenders of the Phaeton are plastic. You might want to try stuffing it under a front fender (get in there from under the hood) and seeing if that works OK.

Michael


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Thanks Michael - as always,

I will try that next time. It would certainly be easier. I expect my Phaetons have enough life in them to outlive the batteries in these EZPass transponders so I shall have occasion to try your suggestion all over again with two new units. 

Those of you who live in parts of the country or countries where they are not required should consider yourselves blessed.

Steve


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

One of the problems of living in another country that has a different language is that slowly your mother tongue vocabulary erodes and this is the case here - in France it is called a "badge" and on the M6 toll website in the UK it is called a Tag.

Anyway, the tag that worked fine in my old Merc will not work in the Phaeton at all - I have to open the window and wave it around outside to get it to work.

Pierre, have you had any such issues here in France?

Perhaps there is an optimal place to site it? 

Any hints would be gratefully received,

With thanks in anticipation,
Steven


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

You probably have the IR reflective glass which, from first-hand experience, blocks the télépéage signals. Unfortunately, there's no solution other than the one you've been trying!

HH


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Thanks very much for the quick reply, I suspected as much.

Well, at least it's a good way to spot Phaetons when in France!

All best,
Steven


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## RUDDY1965 (Sep 16, 2008)

Hi Steven

According to my manual, there is a 'communication area' behind the rear view mirror. This area has not been coated with the IR reflector.

However, I haven't fixed my tag to my car and prefer to hold it in position on the windscreen. Mine works in the centre of the windscreen though. Maybe I haven't got the IR reflector option. Didn't even know it was an option in fact. I would have thought all of our cars have it?

Also, I always use the left hand lane at the M6 tolls as I can't work out where to stop for the other outside lane.

Ian


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

The IR windows were an option and have a very thin metallic layer in the laminate - you can usually tell as the windscreen appears to have a blue/purple tint to it when the light catches is from certain angles. To be honest, I couldn't tell the difference from the inside of the car.

Harry

_A postscript from Michael, a year later: You can identify Phaetons equipped with IR glass by looking for the IR symbol on the glass label.
_


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

I lift the transponder against the sunroof.

That works here in Florida and it is easier for me.


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## JockMacMad (May 18, 2011)

*M6*

Well my M6 toll tag works in the top left and I havn't got the IR glass so you must one of the lucky ones which is making it unlucky on the péage


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Thing is Jock, dealing with the intense heat of the sun is not a big problem on the Isle of Skye!


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

I'm going to try that, waving it out of the window seems to be temting providence that I will drop the damn thing down a drain!


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Ian,

Many thanks for that, I am going to try to locate it.

Cheers,
Steven


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi,

For some reason, I skipped this thread...

Yes, there is a way for the French telepeage to work like a charm in the Phaeton. Just pull on the large base of the central mirror (affixed to the roof).

It holds to the roof with metal clips that won't break, so don't hesitate to pull the cover down.

There, I cut a couple of tags on the right handside of the compartment to accomodate my telepeage thingie. There is a position where it will fit perfectly (no rattle, no nothing). Once it is in the cradle, put the cover back and voilà.

No more waving with your hand out of the window...

P.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

See this post for additional information about the transponder mounting location that Pierre referred to in his post directly above: Removing the Front Overhead Control Panel.

Michael


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## EZpassdesigner (Jan 30, 2012)

*The First EZ Pass Transponders*

here are the Wikipedia Images 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_First_EZ_Pass_Transponder_-_Small_-_01.jpg 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_First_EZ_Pass_Transponder_-_Small_-_02.jpg


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

There is a plastic housing above the mirror that is held on by sprung clips - it comes off using something like a plastic ruler to slide in - and in there is where I keep my highway tag (French) - I don't know how big the tag is that you are talking about, the thing I have is maybe 5.5 x 2.5 x 1cm in size. 

It works perfectly now whereas before it did not work at all unless pushed up against the sunroof. 

Good luck, 
Steven


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

On my W12 I found where to install the toll tag inside the car and it works!
On the top of the rear glass there is a band that looks as if it has no metalized foil and my toll tag works fine there. 
True that one has to slow down at the toll, as being in the back of the car means the system takes longer to open the barrier, but it works.


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