# Anyone running C2 24v short runner intake manifold?



## climiefish (Mar 16, 2007)

looking for some feedback/advice on the C2 24v intake manifold, are they port length compensated inside the plenum for front bank? 
I am using the OEM plastic manifold @ 18psi with a T60-1 and see a healthy torque low down right through the rpm, but thinking ditching the OEM and using the C2 short runner what would i expect to see, guess it would need a remap too.











Any info, or dyno sheets from someone using this manifold.


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## climiefish (Mar 16, 2007)

Found this photo guess this answers the question the C2 SRI is not port conpensated.

There must be someone out there that can give me info on this manifold.....Jeff UM you out there???


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## cpinde (Jul 5, 2010)

I might be incorrect but on a FI setup you shouldn't need any length compensation because the air is getting forced in. On a NA set-up the air is sucked in not forced in and thus needing balanced intake runners.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

There are no compensated 24v manifolds out there. The best manifold out there is the Area 51/AFI manifold, which offers the best runner length and plenum design.

http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/afi-24v-short-runner-intake-manifold.html


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## climiefish (Mar 16, 2007)

cpinde said:


> I might be incorrect but on a FI setup you shouldn't need any length compensation because the air is getting forced in. On a NA set-up the air is sucked in not forced in and thus needing balanced intake runners.


I can remember reading Foffa`s threads a while back talking of Pulse tuning and lengths to achieve this, like you say once under boost should not make much difference. But low down torque out of boost will be better with the OEM manifold my tuner raves about the OEM manifold for power low down. I would like to keep some street drivability and low down torque but looking at off setting some of this with a SRI to make maintenance on the head/pistons/turbo easier with out having to take the intercooler off the put the front end into service position to get the OEM manifold off....blah blah....pain in the ass to work on.


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

cpinde said:


> I might be incorrect but on a FI setup you shouldn't need any length compensation because the air is getting forced in. On a NA set-up the air is sucked in not forced in and thus needing balanced intake runners.


 Boost is just a reference, not an absolute unit, just like hot and cold, so yes ‘Pulse Tuning’ still makes a difference under ’boost’. It’s related to the speed of sound, not to pressure, but it does create a pressure wave, which when tuned right(as in length) enhances the VE(filling of the mixture into the cylinder) of the engine.


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## cpinde (Jul 5, 2010)

So if pulse tuning is still needed then why doesn't anyone have any "equal length" intake manifolds? Is that why with log style manifolds they almost always are "fatter" at the one end.


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

The major reason is because it’s easier to up the boost a few pounds and have the same power level, ‘we’ in general look at the highest power number, not at the power band. 

Another reason is because ‘pulse tuning’ is not only related to the runner length, it’s also related to the valve timing and rpm , you need to fix yourself a specific region as to where you want max torque or your power band. This makes things more complicated(expensive), and not really for the general market. 

But, if you use a non compensated manifold, this means that at a certain rpm, three cylinders are likely to fill better than the other three, which leads to one bank running leaner than the other. 

Of course, one can compensate and run a little richer, but you lose some power, or some aftermarket ECU’s have individual cylinder compensations(when running full sequential). 

So do we need a compensated runner manifold, yes and no, but if you want the max efficiency out of your motor, then yes.


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## cpinde (Jul 5, 2010)

MarcoVR6SC said:


> The major reason is because it’s easier to up the boost a few pounds and have the same power level, ‘we’ in general look at the highest power number, not at the power band.
> 
> Another reason is because ‘pulse tuning’ is not only related to the runner length, it’s also related to the valve timing and rpm , you need to fix yourself a specific region as to where you want max torque or your power band. This makes things more complicated(expensive), and not really for the general market.
> 
> ...


 Good to know!! Thanks!!


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## climiefish (Mar 16, 2007)

Lieutenant Dan said:


> There are no compensated 24v manifolds out there. The best manifold out there is the Area 51/AFI manifold, which offers the best runner length and plenum design.
> 
> http://www.bshspeedshop.com/store/afi-24v-short-runner-intake-manifold.html


Liking the longer runners of the AFI manifold but has anyone got pictures of what the entrance ports inside the plenum look like?? Dont wont to spend $1000 on something i cannot see the design of.
In for any info on this AFI manifold???? :thumbup:


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

18 psi on the stock intake  I wonder how long that will last.




Lieutenant Dan said:


> There are no compensated 24v manifolds out there.


Here's one - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/intake-manifold-turbo-VW-R32-V6-2-8L-3-2-L-/270394033144

And another - http://www.hpamotorsports.com/cvp.htm



MarcoVR6SC said:


> But, if you use a non compensated manifold, this means that at a certain rpm, three cylinders are likely to fill better than the other three, which leads to one bank running leaner than the other.


I keep an eye on the plug colours. I was seeing sootier plugs on the rear bank (Bosch green 42lb, Delphi 42lb) with my SRI 12V turbo but since switching to EV14 and Denso 1220, all 6 plugs are the same colour.

I suspect because of the slower gas speeds (off boost) with SRIs, some fuel was dropping out of suspension on the rear bank. Superior atmosiation of modern injector designs solved that for me.


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## climiefish (Mar 16, 2007)

Lasting well! Seems we dont have the heat cycles and high summer temps you guys have. I know of a handful of R32 running upto 20psi on OEM and not one has popped yet. But i guess it will only be a matter of time with ageing of the plastic and heat cycles from the turbo heat tucked down there behind the OEM manifold.

Cheers for the info :thumbup:


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

climiefish said:


> Lasting well! Seems we dont have the heat cycles and high summer temps you guys have. I know of a handful of R32 running upto 20psi on OEM and not one has popped yet. But i guess it will only be a matter of time with ageing of the plastic and heat cycles from the turbo heat tucked down there behind the OEM manifold.
> 
> Cheers for the info :thumbup:


Nice one. I've got a 2.8 24V sat in the garage which I'll be putting into my Corrado, then transfer the turbo stuff over from my 12V. 24V SRI space is limited in the Corrado, although I know MarcoSCVR6 has a 24vT in his. I was wondering about the plastic inlet and you've answered that question :thumbup:

What turbo manifold are you using? Does the plastic intake sat above the turbo not cause issues?


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## climiefish (Mar 16, 2007)

kevhayward said:


> Nice one. I've got a 2.8 24V sat in the garage which I'll be putting into my Corrado, then transfer the turbo stuff over from my 12V. 24V SRI space is limited in the Corrado, although I know MarcoSCVR6 has a 24vT in his. I was wondering about the plastic inlet and you've answered that question :thumbup:
> 
> What turbo manifold are you using? Does the plastic intake sat above the turbo not cause issues?


Kev,

I am using the EIP rams horn onto the OEM manifolds so the OEM heat shield is still in place which helps alot. Also saw big improvement in heat with the DP wrapped and turbo blanket. Plan to ditch the EIP manifold because of boost creep above 4000rpm start to see 28psi at 5000rpm!!! And yes in short bursts OEM still in one piece! Having a bespoke SS tubular built with Tial MV-R 44mm.


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

Nice looking setup! You'll seen an improvement with the Tial MVR. I run the V44 which solved my creep issues from the F38.

Good to hear the intake is holding up though :thumbup:


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

kevhayward said:


> Here's one - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/intake-manifold-turbo-VW-R32-V6-2-8L-3-2-L-/270394033144
> 
> And another - http://www.hpamotorsports.com/cvp.htm


Both of those seem to be for the 3.2 (the first is advertised for both, but that's a LIE; it's one or the other). That's a clone so it's _possible_ that it's a 2.8 replica, but seeing as there were so few originals made because of demand, I doubt the 2.8 version is the one that it's a copy of. The 2.8 and 3.2 don't share the same design on the intake side of the head. Exhaust, however, is identical on both. Weird design I know, and if it weren't for that one thing it would be so much easier :banghead:

That CVP was never produced in a 2.8 version. There were plans for it, but the market is too tiny and they never went ahead with it, or I'd be running one *right now* :laugh:

I was eyeing the original CVP thread like a hawk constantly PMing about the 2.8 version, but it never ended up seeing the light of day


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

Thanks for the info, good to know :thumbup:

I think the ebay one is indeed a clone of the HGP intake. I just assumed the 2.8 and R32 had the same intake ports. Obviously not then! So the exhausts are the same, but intake is bigger?

Interestingly, a friend was going to buy the CVP setup for this R32, but HPA told him he'd lose 30lb torque. At least they're honest I guess! And guess how he gets the 30lb back? Yep, by fitting THEIR cams and software, LOL! 

But I suppose you would be back to square one in terms of torque but you'll be good to go with forced induction. LOTS of forced induction


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

I kinda like the ebay ones, wich you'll find a lot in germany.

Maybe ronald has some SRI's laying around?


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## VR6_notlosin (Oct 12, 2009)

I am getting ready to make mine similar to the area 51. However mine is the 2.8 24v what's the best way to "delete" the short ram runner actuator under the factory intake that the vacuum lines
Run to as well?? You advise is appreciated.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

Lieutenant Dan said:


> Both of those seem to be for the 3.2 (the first is advertised for both, but that's a LIE; it's one or the other). That's a clone so it's _possible_ that it's a 2.8 replica, but seeing as there were so few originals made because of demand, I doubt the 2.8 version is the one that it's a copy of. The 2.8 and 3.2 don't share the same design on the intake side of the head. Exhaust, however, is identical on both. Weird design I know, and if it weren't for that one thing it would be so much easier :banghead:
> 
> That CVP was never produced in a 2.8 version. There were plans for it, but the market is too tiny and they never went ahead with it, or I'd be running one *right now* :laugh:
> 
> I was eyeing the original CVP thread like a hawk constantly PMing about the 2.8 version, but it never ended up seeing the light of day



the ebay one is for the 2.8, bought one and requested the 3.2 version and got the one with slightly smaller intake ports, in further inspection found some nasty runoff material that was closing one of the ports which would have been devastating if left in there, see pics 




























stay away from it, I was going to modify it because I wanted different throttle positioning thats why I had my fabricator cut it and clean it.


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