# Intake Manifold and Design



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

I see a lot of different ones and am in the process of making my own...I have an AEB and an AWP one so throwing some ideas around (I am not here to discuss what side the TB needs to be on







) rather just basic engineering...
Everywhere I see and read usually people try and stuff the largest plenum they can and make it work, but the runner size is usually not something most people discuss (they just opt for the typical american way, 'bigger is better'), but maybe not in this case, *having slightly skinnier runners would help the velocity of the air entering the combustion chamber? Wouldn't this create greater flow and hence a better explosion?* People's thoughts are appreciated!
* Second, I've been contemplating plenum size, but it seems that with turbo cars bigger is usually better so maybe having smaller runners will assist with combustion? Thoughts?
* Lastly, I'll try and taper the end (this usually provides better flow for the CYL farthest from the TB, as it seems that it's the bastard child CYL of any head, but how vital is this? (It's an easy remedy, just cut the plenum at an angle when you are welding on the adapter plate.
Bought my parts from ROSS MACHINE...sorta what VariantSG3 did and 02VW1.8T (peter) is doing...



_Modified by 18T_BT at 12:50 PM 11-29-2006_


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

I say you don't taper it but try to cap the ends with round caps.


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_I say you don't taper it but try to cap the ends with round caps.

Okay Don....where do we get the round caps?


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## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_*having slightly skinnier runners would help the velocity of the air entering the combustion chamber? Wouldn't this create greater flow and hence a better explosion?* People's thoughts are appreciated!
* Second, I've been contemplating plenum size, but it seems that with turbo cars bigger is usually better so maybe having smaller runners will assist with combustion? Thoughts?
* Lastly, I'll try and taper the end (this usually provides better flow for the CYL farthest from the TB, as it seems that it's the bastard child CYL of any head, but how vital is this? (It's an easy remedy, just cut the plenum at an angle when you are welding on the adapter plate.
Bought my parts from ROSS MACHINE...sorta what VariantSG3 did and 02VW1.8T (peter) is doing...
_Modified by 18T_BT at 12:50 PM 11-29-2006_

i believe that when most people design intake manifolds, they manipulate runner length in order to control air velocity instead of diameter. longer runners= more velocity which is supposedly good for low end torque. shorter runner= less velocity which is good for high revving power (as far as i remember).
i think i also heard at some point that for forced induction, a good plenum volume is 1.5 times the displacement of the engine. 
i wouldnt worry about tapering the plenum too much. once its volume is significantly increased, the air is distributed fairly equally.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_
Okay Don....where do we get the round caps?

BEAT ME TO IT BOB









_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_
i believe that when most people design intake manifolds, they manipulate runner length in order to control air velocity instead of diameter. longer runners= more velocity which is supposedly good for low end torque. shorter runner= less velocity which is good for high revving power (as far as i remember).
i think i also heard at some point that for forced induction, a good plenum volume is 1.5 times the displacement of the engine. 
i wouldnt worry about tapering the plenum too much. once its volume is significantly increased, the air is distributed fairly equally.

yeah that's what I read also, and I am aware of the length differences and since I am not really willing to modify that aspect of it as I am using the runners from a stock intake mani, I was really wondering if the size (girth for lack of a better word) would make a difference in flow (I am not refering to port matching as that will be done also as necessary) but precisely on port width to increase velocity from the plenum to the chambers?


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

McMaster should 4" Alum caps 1/4" thk...then you can cut a 4" OD X 1/4" thk in half c/w cap to suit.

Maybe a bit too much work???


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Maybe a bit too much work???









No, too much work would be to make variable length intake runners that change based on MAF or RPM readings...
This thread has a lot of potential. I hope Scott @ USRT joins the party (I've always liked the design of their intake manifold)


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

so no more feedback?


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

Don tell me the part number of the cap. Cause i just bought the ROSS cap with the 3 fittings for 25 bucks. Its a nice piece but if you can tell me where to get a round cap like that i'll order it..
Oh and cutting 1/2" aluminum on a chop saw takes forever, i almost smoked my chop saw motor..


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

This thread died because no manufacturer wants to release dyno plots of their intake manifold making only 3whp and -10ft/lbs of torque. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
Questions:
-Are there no gains to be had from an 
aftermarket intake mani?
-If there are, does anyone know how to design it?
-If so, does anyone know how to prove it and please the ?id=27 crowd?
-Can an intake manifold on a K03/K03Sport/K04-001 make prove more than 5whp with no loss in torque?


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

Most of the aftermarket intake manifolds are pretty poor quality...and have little to no real engineering involved in them. I went through a few manifolds and eventually went back to the stock manifold. 
Honestly...the stock manifold is very well made and designed. And it seems we have quite a few people hacking up stock manifolds ...and welding on bigger chambers.







If only they could focus on other parts of the engine that will actually gain some power.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_ Most of the aftermarket intake manifolds are pretty poor quality...and have little to no real engineering involved in them.

As much as I agree with you,thats where the Dahlback manifold excells over the others,but then again the manifold was not engineered by Dahlback.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_ Most of the aftermarket intake manifolds are pretty poor quality...and have little to no real engineering involved in them. I went through a few manifolds and eventually went back to the stock manifold. 
Honestly...the stock manifold is very well made and designed. And it seems we have quite a few people hacking up stock manifolds ...and welding on bigger chambers.







If only they could focus on other parts of the engine that will actually gain some power.









it's funny that you say that, but head work is a bit more pricey then a new intake manifold and a much bigger pain in the arse to install for the average person...
BTW-APR has proven very good gains with the larger intake mani (this isn't for a k03sport configuration, the stock mani is plenty for that) as somebody else asked to have proof of...


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

Intake manifolds just like motors require design intent and involve tuning. The stock intake is great for stock turbo but anything greater becomes inadequate.
The dahlback mani which was originally designed by Lehman for Audi racing I believe is designed for a 300 hp car with particular characteristics in mind to sustain equal flow distribution across all cyl's yielding a more balanced/equal AFR across the cyl for more balanced power strokes from TIP-in to part throttle thru to WOT and on-off boost transition.
Runner length also plays a role with trq/power range and with these motors you want a medium that will yield mid-range to top end power.


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## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

wasnt there some crazy design with velocity stacks in an old thread? what ever happened to that crazy super hard to build idea.


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_wasnt there some crazy design with velocity stacks in an old thread? what ever happened to that crazy super hard to build idea.

Not sure what you're asking???


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
it's funny that you say that, but head work is a bit more pricey then a new intake manifold and a much bigger pain in the arse to install for the average person...
BTW-APR has proven very good gains with the larger intake mani (this isn't for a k03sport configuration, the stock mani is plenty for that) as somebody else asked to have proof of...

And I stick to it. Head work is key in making a good amount of power, and any of these homemade manifolds probably rob it. And most of these sheet metal manifolds have no design put into them besides having plenums...and more volume. 
APR's manifold does look nice.....(saw it in person) , but I would like to see some data to back it up. 
It just stinks that there are no companies that want to make quality manifolds for VW's.


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_It just stinks that there are no companies that want to make quality manifolds for VW's.









But it is good that VW made a design that's difficult to improve upon.


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_...It just stinks that there are no companies that want to make quality manifolds for VW's.









You sure? Perhaps a little more research is involved?


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## smugfree3 (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_But it is good that VW made a design that's difficult to improve upon.

x2
as far as homemade manifolds go: i know that ross machine sells the little intake horns that go inside the manifold, how great of an impact do these have??
an idea ive had for a little while is o chop off the aeb plenum, attach one of a larger volume but make sure to use those intake horns inside the manifold.


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_Don tell me the part number of the cap. Cause i just bought the ROSS cap with the 3 fittings for 25 bucks. Its a nice piece but if you can tell me where to get a round cap like that i'll order it...

Here is a site that offers 3.5" Sch 40 (4" OD x 3.548" ID, .226" Wall) Alum Pipe caps which you can use for the Ross Machine plenum.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Don R)*

I wish this was back in production


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
I wish this was back in production

Rob I remember that from L-Sport, but this dual plenum design is rather redundant...but nice


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Here is a site that offers 3.5" Sch 40 (4" OD x 3.548" ID, .226" Wall) Alum Pipe caps which you can use for the Ross Machine plenum.


I am not sure if these are the correct ones don? These seem like regular caps to me...If they care concave then cool otherwise there is no benefit to this IMO...


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
I am not sure if these are the correct ones don? These seem like regular caps to me...If they care concave then cool otherwise there is no benefit to this IMO...









Yes they are concave as such.


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
You sure? Perhaps a little more research is involved?

I'm sure.....
I'd really not like to start naming the companies by name....since too many people will get their panties up in a bunch.








And as far as improving the stock manifold......I think it performs fairly well in higher than stock hp situations. Think people are prematurely looking at fixing the manifolds bottle neck...even though they haven't really ran into any real restrictions. A stock manifold will work pretty well if you lift other restrictions....like in the head. After a good port and polish job....HD over sized valves with solid lifters will really yield tremendous gains. All on a stock intake.
And you have to remember......most people do not have the R&D nor the funds of Audi motorsport div. And those rally cars....were making a lot more than the 300hp you claim that the Leham manifold is made to support....


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

yeah eh??? Hmmm...Wanna tell me more










_Modified by Don R at 1:58 PM 12-11-2006_


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*

gladly.


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## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_gladly.









...waiting.


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

I was leaning towards going into pm about the subject.....but if you have anything in specific to discuss.....just throw it out on the table.









And just to clear up the point someone else brought up on how intakes are more in the realm of the average joe, unlike heads. Let me ask you this. 
Any body who would benefit from a significantly higher flowing intake, potentially is making some serious power already. Upgrading internals is unavoidable on 1.8t's once you pass a certain hp level. Wouldn't it make sense to take care of everything once you tear apart an engine? Swapping an intake hardly makes you capable of working on an engine.... 


_Modified by bongoRA3 at 2:34 PM 12-11-2006_


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

I ran one of the 007 manifolds. Here is a nice shot of velocity stacks on the inside. 









Just bolting it on and minor fabrication I made 18 more WHP at 5000 RPM before I ran out of injector. Peak hp was basically the same with my 28R running out of steam, the AFR creeping into the low 13's and the timing pulling out ~6 degrees. This was only on a car making 265 whp. Cars pushing 300 to mid 300 whp should show even more benefit
In all I made more power from 4400 - 6200 RPM. This was on a stock small port engine with no port matching. The ports actually matched very well on my head. Guys porting out to AEB size show even better gains. There was a 3rd party dyno on the APR IMF showing decent gains. I would definitely try a new IMF before getting 3K$ deep into a cylinder head.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_
And I stick to it. Head work is key in making a good amount of power, and any of these homemade manifolds probably rob it. And most of these sheet metal manifolds have no design put into them besides having plenums...and more volume. 
APR's manifold does look nice.....(saw it in person) , but I would like to see some data to back it up. 
It just stinks that there are no companies that want to make quality manifolds for VW's.









search around it's been published

_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_I was leaning towards going into pm about the subject.....but if you have anything in specific to discuss.....just throw it out on the table.









And just to clear up the point someone else brought up on how intakes are more in the realm of the average joe, unlike heads. Let me ask you this. 
Any body who would benefit from a significantly higher flowing intake, potentially is making some serious power already. Upgrading internals is unavoidable on 1.8t's once you pass a certain hp level. Wouldn't it make sense to take care of everything once you tear apart an engine? Swapping an intake hardly makes you capable of working on an engine.... 

_Modified by bongoRA3 at 2:34 PM 12-11-2006_

Although what you say makes sense...anybody who can afford to build the bottom end and (since building a one of intake manifold is usually cheaper then buying APR's and others that are on the market, at least for me it is)...then where does that leave room for head work...because that is real pricey...we all live in an ideal world bongo, but money is still a restriction for most, otherwise everybody on this site would drive an exotic http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_I would definitely try a new IMF before getting 3K$ deep into a cylinder head. 



My point exactly justin!


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Yes they are concave as such.


great! thanks for the link!


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## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

bongo im hearing a lot of talk with no actual facts. you seem to just be talking trash about everything yet nothing specific. if you have something to say about the 007 manifold then why dont you just say it instead of passively dissing it without elaboration. 
intake manifolds are a pretty important engine piece that can have drastic effects when manipulated. through their design you can pretty much sculpt the powerband you want, and the effects of that are beneficial on all levels of power. its not just some secondary part that you can put on once youve run out of ideas for other parts. and im not sure why you think the stock design is adequate, youve pretty much just said that you for some reason FEEL like its best option. the plenum is small and the overall design begs for uneven flow to cylinder 1.


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

true...
But I'm sure its true for me and most of the people here...even if you had an exotic......you would be under the hood trying to figure out a way to make more power......its just a matter of time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

LOL @ the thought of the "Which CAI?" threads on the Ferrari forums if we all had exotics...


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

On the exotic boards they just ask which fabrication shop they should write the check out to.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

I would be willing to donate some $$ as well as a Dhalback intake manifold to end this pissy quarrel once and for all.
I am sure APR and others would also be willing to contribute to the cause.
Who wants to make this happen?


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I'll gladly be the test dummy. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








No...in all seriousness. As soon as I get the peloquin installed. I'm going over to Kevin Black for him to fiine tune my 034. Maybe if we can gather up a few intakes....we can put a lid on this subject once and for all. And by a few intakes I mean either Dahlbaks or APR's....since I don't deal with sheet metal trash anymore.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_Maybe if we can gather up a few intakes....we can put a lid on this subject once and for all. And by a few intakes I mean either Dahlbaks or APR's....since I don't deal with sheet metal trash anymore.









No test subjects,that eliminates dyno issues (oh but the APR manifold was bolted on after a hot run or a 0.007823*C change in temperature...no thanks).
034 Motorsports does this on there manifolds
I would prefer to have them sent to a reputable flow bench shop and have each runner tested individually.
Once we have the data,the flow bench numbers will speak for themselves.


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

This would be very interesting.


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## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

where does abd weigh in on all this?


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_where does abd weigh in on all this?

Another Bad Design


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (LA Wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA Wolfsburg* »_bongo im hearing a lot of talk with no actual facts. you seem to just be talking trash about everything yet nothing specific. if you have something to say about the 007 manifold then why dont you just say it instead of passively dissing it without elaboration. 
intake manifolds are a pretty important engine piece that can have drastic effects when manipulated. through their design you can pretty much sculpt the powerband you want, and the effects of that are beneficial on all levels of power. its not just some secondary part that you can put on once youve run out of ideas for other parts. and im not sure why you think the stock design is adequate, youve pretty much just said that you for some reason FEEL like its best option. the plenum is small and the overall design begs for uneven flow to cylinder 1.

I definetly didn't make this out to sound like I'm talking trash or dissing..other companies. Thats why I refrain from throwing out the names of the companies. They're just trying to make some cash...and thats understandable. Most of the manifolds out there are made by some guy in his basement. (aside from the cast units...) And the manifold is with no doubt a critical part of the engine. Thats why I think its better to stick with the stock manifold for now. 
The stock manifold is not w/o flaws....but in an overall quality stand point......the other sheet metal manifolds available for VW's as of right now have a lot left to be desired of them. (machining a finished product so it does not leak vacuum.....decking flanges....remounting fuelrail mounts.....sloppy welds on the inside of the manifold...is not my idea of a quality product)
And so what that you gained ~20hp on a dyno at 5 grand....look how much power you lost over the whole power curve. I really would welcome a manifold that is well made...and proves to have broad gains over the whole curve. I'm not against spending the money....just give me a good product. I'd really really want to see the Dahlback and APR manifold tested.


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## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

So any manifold that isn't completely cast is a poor piece?


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

No....not at all. 
There are a few companies out there that do make really great quality manifolds that are not cast.....I just haven't seen any personally for our engines yet. It just seems the two companies that make cast manifolds put a little more attention to quality and design aside from the others out there....since making a cast piece is pretty large investment. 


_Modified by bongoRA3 at 8:48 PM 12-11-2006_


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## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

Have you seen an APR manifold or Dahlback in your hands? 
Edit: Saw that you have seen an APR mani in person. But to me, it really seems to fall into the category you summed up here:

_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_ And most of these sheet metal manifolds have no design put into them besides having plenums...and more volume. 

And yes, I've seen one in person.










_Modified by axlekiller at 8:04 PM 12-11-2006_


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## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Another Bad Design

crap... money down the drain then.


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## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: (smugfree3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smugfree3* »_
x2
as far as homemade manifolds go: i know that ross machine sells the little intake horns that go inside the manifold, how great of an impact do these have??
an idea ive had for a little while is o chop off the aeb plenum, attach one of a larger volume but make sure to use those intake horns inside the manifold. 

Intake horns along w/ venturied runners (ie a slight offset in size of the runner from bigger to smaller (say a little bigger than the stock from the plenum, then the same size as the stock into the port on the head would greatly improve airspped into the engine, the Air horns will make an appreciable difference especially on each runner just before the venturi.
the plenum size would be directly relative to the turbocharger spec'd for the application, its an air reservoir, so pretent you turn your sink on and you have a large cup and a small cup, the small cup will fill first, the large cup will take longer to fill, this cycle will restart evertime you let off the gas and get back on it creating lag, maybe more # on dyno, but a slower car from point a-point b. imo
but of course if you used your bath tub to fill the bigger cup it would fill it at an appropriate rate (big turbo) its all relative. 



_Modified by Space9888 at 11:30 PM 12-11-2006_

_Modified by Space9888 at 11:31 PM 12-11-2006_

_Modified by Space9888 at 11:35 PM 12-11-2006_


_Modified by Space9888 at 11:36 PM 12-11-2006_


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## smugfree3 (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: (Space9888)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Space9888* »_Intake horns along w/ venturied runners (ie a slight offset in size of the runner from bigger to smaller (say a little bigger than the stock from the plenum, then the same size as the stock into the port on the head would greatly improve airspped into the engine, the Air horns will make an appreciable difference especially on each runner just before the venturi.
the plenum size would be directly relative to the turbocharger spec'd for the application, its an air reservoir, so pretent you turn your sink on and you have a large cup and a small cup, the small cup will fill first, the large cup will take longer to fill, this cycle will restart evertime you let off the gas and get back on it creating lag, maybe more # on dyno, but a slower car from point a-point b. imo
but of course if you used your bath tub to fill the bigger cup it would fill it at an appropriate rate (big turbo) its all relative. 



_Modified by Space9888 at 11:30 PM 12-11-2006_

_Modified by Space9888 at 11:31 PM 12-11-2006_

_Modified by Space9888 at 11:35 PM 12-11-2006_

_Modified by Space9888 at 11:36 PM 12-11-2006_

the design i had in my head was a 3ish liter size plenum with air horns, an aeb mani cut off half way, and the runners tapered from there (small) to the manifold (slightley bigger).


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (smugfree3)*

Now that ECS is doing the ADR lower intake at a sane price, I can forsee many people building their own intakes. These are for the big port head, and transition from the oval intake hole, to a 40mm internal dia round hole, so are ideal for ITB's, or fitting off the shelf velocity stacks for the inside of a custom plenumn. they also house the injectors, and have the mounting points for the Audi A4 injector rail. If one of the arguements here is that cast is better than fabbed, then I guess having the lower section cast and fabricating the Plenumn would address that. It's all down to what shape you make the plenumn.....

















Half way down the page: http://www.ecstuning.com/stage...ntake
I do have to agree that there are some fabricated intakes out there that don't seem to have had a great deal of expert input into their design. The purpose of the plenumn is to act as a reservior of equally pressurised air, for each cylinder to draw on. 


_Modified by polov8 at 8:32 AM 12-12-2006_


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

when you guys are saying "intake manis" are you allowing for the throttle body sizes on them as well?
APR's is'nt stock sized so how much of the claimed/reported gains are from the larger t'body and how much is plenum related.
My guess on a 300+whp car is the plenum becomes less significant than the t'body size feeding it. A sliding scale of sorts tho for those not on big enough turbo's, less total airflow, less gains to be had pro-rata
My 007 is being fitted currently, so I will be able to dyno and see what its given me. Previous mani was a dual plenum unit, inspired by lehmann, but having internal airhorns also.


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (polov8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *polov8* »_Now that ECS is doing the ADR lower intake at a sane price, I can forsee many people building their own intakes. These are for the big port head, and transition from the oval intake hole, to a 40mm internal dia round hole, so are *ideal for ITB's*, or fitting off the shelf velocity stacks for the inside of a custom plenumn...

ITB Turbo Manifold? I've heard about such things, and they certainly would rate a 10 on the pimpometer, but could that make significant power gains?
Or were you talking about the Euro n/a 20V motors...?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_ITB Turbo Manifold? I've heard about such things, and they certainly would rate a 10 on the pimpometer, but could that make significant power gains?

ITB's are more for "off boost" response rather than power gain


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ITB's are more for "off boost" response rather than power gain









Still never seen a ITB mani for a turbo motor.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

imagine those ITB's in the picture but with a plenum around it


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_imagine those ITB's in the picture but with a plenum around it









I can imagine it alright. I've thought of it a fair amount, though a while ago. With an ITB turbo mani, would you want longer runners and a smaller plenum?


----------



## 18JettaPower (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Still never seen a ITB mani for a turbo motor.

I've seen one! There is a guy in ohio who is building a high compression big turbo jetta coupe and he has ITB and a crazy equal lenth intake setup. If I can get him to send me pics of it i'll post up but I dont think he'll let the cat out the bad.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (18JettaPower)*

itb in a carbon box amde by RPW a australian company mainly works on mitsu's.
http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/ind...mid=5


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

cant the shape of the stacks be imitated without them sticking up into the mani? seems to me like they would cause air to churn around unescessarily.


----------



## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: (smugfree3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smugfree3* »_
the design i had in my head was a 3ish liter size plenum with air horns, an aeb mani cut off half way, and the runners tapered from there (small) to the manifold (slightley bigger).

sounds like it must have worked really nice w/ your turbo setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## smugfree3 (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: (Space9888)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Space9888* »_sounds like it must have worked really nice w/ your turbo setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









actually i havent built it yet. i was lookin to get peoples thoughts on it.


----------



## alomI wolleY iTG (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_I wish this was back in production

Who bought the mold from L-Sport?


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_ Just bolting it on and minor fabrication I made 18 more WHP at 5000 RPM before I ran out of injector. Peak hp was basically the same with my 28R running out of steam, the AFR creeping into the low 13's and the timing pulling out ~6 degrees. This was only on a car making 265 whp. Cars pushing 300 to mid 300 whp should show even more benefit 

The 28R isn't running out of steam at 265 unless something else is holding it back. Mine is well above that.
Anyone seen the Ross Machine IM, looks nicely built. I'm still wondering how much of APR's gains are from the larger TB than from the actual IM design.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_The 28R isn't running out of steam at 265 unless something else is holding it back. Mine is well above that.

enginerd's dyno was on a Dyno Dynamics...and why would he be running out of injector now?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

Everybody gets all googly when a new shinier intake manifold comes out.Its really kinda foolish.I happen to know a little about intake manifold design and the ones I have see so far are mostly done for cosmetics.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_Everybody gets all googly when a new shinier intake manifold comes out.Its really kinda foolish.I happen to know a little about intake manifold design and the ones I have see so far are mostly done for cosmetics.

Kinda like this







?








Ones you've seen in person or generally speaking?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Kinda like this







?








Ones you've seen in person or generally speaking?

Just by web site reaction.I only have two words.Helmholtz resonator.


----------



## nosegoblin (Sep 19, 2002)

If you guys want to really get into the details, get a hold of Prof John Heywood's text, "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals". I'm sure it covers theory on intake manifolds. Unfortunately it is $174.38 on Amazon!


----------



## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (nosegoblin)*

I'll be honest, I don't know what a helmholtz resonator is, so I googled it, and found this site, which is pretty damned useful: http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=471
It's mostly N/A stuff, but I guess it still applies.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (nosegoblin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Still never seen a ITB mani for a turbo motor.

You build a box over the velocity stacks with a centre entrance.Some have built an entrance to the side but I followed the route of the LeMans engines.
Allright I got my own Dahlback manifold and another custom made unit to test.Need units from:
* USRT
* APR
* ROSS Machine
* ABD
Getting really annoyed with the constant theories and not enough facts to support any claim.So are we going to make this happen or forever nut swing?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

what do you propose as a test, just get people that have all these intake mani's and create a test with the same parameters?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_You build a box over the velocity stacks with a centre entrance.Some have built an entrance to the side but I followed the route of the LeMans engines.

Actually, I take that back; I believe I remember seeing a full race ITB turbo manifold by Cosworth for a V6 or V8 in Sport Compact Car of all places. It had TBs for each cylinder and one at the entrance of the manifold. The ITBs were not the normal butterfly-valve style, instead the throttle plate slid out of the way (and we complain about our partial throttle!).




_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Getting really annoyed with the constant theories and not enough facts to support any claim.So are we going to make this happen or forever nut swing?









I would love to see this done.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (alomI wolleY iTG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alomI wolleY iTG* »_
Who bought the mold from L-Sport?

I'm not sure who has the rights to it. But I have contacted the one of the engineers that helped make it and he is in the process of doing a new design. At the moment he working on making one for Peugeot or Renault, I don't remember which


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*

i suppose flowbenching a mani would be rather difficult? or can it be done? i'm not familiar with flowbenches, but i would love to see some difinitive testing and, immediately, putting them on a bench sounds like the way to go. i dunno if that's a viable suggestion, but that's my input.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_i suppose flowbenching a mani would be rather difficult? or can it be done? i'm not familiar with flowbenches, but i would love to see some difinitive testing and, immediately, putting them on a bench sounds like the way to go. i dunno if that's a viable suggestion, but that's my input.









You'd have to flowbench the intake mani with it on the head...but even then it wouldn't be defenitive since an intake mani is subjected to dynamic pressures and transient flow.


----------



## 801pete (Apr 20, 2006)

exactly, it doesn't really tell you all that much about how it'll perform on the car.


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (801pete)*

understood. well, that's my flow dynamics lesson for the day.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (inivid)*

http://supraforums.com/forum/s...66026
heres a flow test of 2 intake manifolds. pretty interstine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

best part I read:


_Quote »_although flow bench does not necessarily tell how well the intake manifold would do on the car nor tells how evenly it flows, it did proved that velocity stacks is infact a restriction...


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_best part I read:
_although flow bench does not necessarily tell how well the intake manifold would do on the car nor tells how evenly it flows, it did proved that velocity stacks is infact a restriction..._

That all depends on the design of the v-stack and if it's properly desinged for the application










_Modified by Don R at 2:06 PM 12-21-2006_


----------



## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
That all depends on the design of the v-stack and if it's* properly desinged* for the application









_Modified by Don R at 2:06 PM 12-21-2006_

Thats the key.....
The flow tests on the supra definetly highlight how its better for performance not to implement plenum's into a design unless you really know what your doing. Flow benching the manifolds gives you a good idea on efficiency.....if you attach each manifold to a head and then flow bench each one...all this is going to do is highlight the better manifold even more. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by bongoRA3 at 2:31 PM 12-21-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

All these excuses...
It will tell us ABC but not XYZ...
got any better suggestions?I am all ears....


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_All these excuses...
It will tell us ABC but not XYZ...
got any better suggestions?I am all ears....









Right. So you can prove v-stacks to be a restriction on a flow bench, but when on the engine do they get a better or more consistent combustion mix anywhere throughout the rev band?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_All these excuses...
It will tell us ABC but not XYZ...
got any better suggestions?I am all ears....









I asked you the same question mr. ears









_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_what do you propose as a test, just get people that have all these intake mani's and create a test with the same parameters?


----------



## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Right. So you can prove v-stacks to be a restriction on a flow bench, but when on the engine do they get a better or more consistent combustion mix anywhere throughout the rev band?

Why do you think v-stacks will magically perform better on an engine....All an engine is in the end ...is a powerful air pump. You can simulate the intake track as long as you consider the air velocity and rate at which its flowing. (An FI engine doesn't rely on the runner lenght to dictate the torque characteristics as much as NA engine does. Its not the same principle....your no longer are drawing in air...but allowing it in )


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_ Why do you think v-stacks will magically perform better on an engine....All an engine is in the end ...is a powerful air pump. You can simulate the intake track as long as you consider the air velocity and rate at which its flowing. (An FI engine doesn't rely on the runner lenght to dictate the torque characteristics as much as NA engine does. Its not the same principle....your no longer are drawing in air...but allowing it in )


Because I'm an inquisitive bastard. And I never implied that magic was a necessary ingredient. And I've got a few questions:
1) The restriction that was found with the velocity stacks:
a) was it significant?
b) was this under vacuum or pressure
c) based on the answers to the two above questions, is there a new conclusion to v-stacks on FI?

2) Do flow benches test FI bits both under suck and blow?


----------



## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

1.
a) If you read the post..it was around %20. (as an engineer I'd call that significant)
b) Think you need to look up how flow benches work:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_flow_bench
It's neither btw. 
c) who knows








2) Flow benches are only meant for one purpose.....comparing the difference in flow between test pieces.


----------



## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

HAs anyone got pics of the insides of the two manifolds that were flow bench tested? It'd be interesting to see what design was employed in the winning manifold, and also wether or not the loser had full radius on the V stacks.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (polov8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_ 1.
a) If you read the post..it was around %20. (as an engineer I'd call that significant)


_Quote, originally posted by *polov8* »_HAs anyone got pics of the insides of the two manifolds that were flow bench tested? It'd be interesting to see what design was employed in the winning manifold, and also wether or not the loser had full radius on the V stacks.

No, I didn't completely read the post, while I'm at work the best thing I can do is ask questions of those who both had time to read it and can deduct conslusions. 20% sounds incredibly significant, but those are different manifolds than the ones we have at our disposal and idk if they are easily comparable.


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_b) Think you need to look up how flow benches work:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_flow_bench
It's neither btw. 

I was just looking on there before I posted and I swore this image looks like it's pulling a vacuum through the part:










_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_2) Flow benches are only meant for one purpose.....comparing the difference in flow between test pieces. 

Not to be a d-bag, I mean I am still asking a lot of questions here, but I don't feel my question was met by your answer. I was trying to ask if the flow benches test parts both under vacuum and under pressure, or if that depends on who tests it.


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Not to be a d-bag, I mean I am still asking a lot of questions here, but I don't feel my question was met by your answer. I was trying to ask if the flow benches test parts both under vacuum and under pressure, or if that depends on who tests it.

It doesn't matter. There is only differential pressure


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_It doesn't matter. There is only differential pressure

Then why does everyone say the runner length and other various things don't matter so much in a FI application when determining low-end torque vs top-end power?


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Then why does everyone say the runner length and other various things don't matter so much in a FI application when determining low-end torque vs top-end power?

You are comparing apples and oranges. A flow bench is not an engine. 
Wave tuning is damped in a pressurized system and the tuning length for a particular RPM varies with temp and pressure..so tuning by runner length is trying to hit a moving target.
No commonly available flow bench has the power to actually pressurize a cylinder head, so testing at actual working pressure really isn't possible.


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

More about that L-Sport Intake Manifold..
I would love to see some hard data to disprove or re-affirm HP claims from the various companies..
Other than and expensive engine dress up piece i do believe that the intake manifolds sold by companies out there arent that more efficient than the stock intake manifold.

Cheers


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UBER1.8t* »_
Other than and expensive engine dress up piece i do believe that the intake manifolds sold by companies out there arent that more efficient than the stock intake manifold.

And thats why I purchased the Dahlback unit because it was designed to be more efficient than the stock manifold.
Dahlback did not design the manifold...someone else did.








But as usual we will probably bicker for another 4 pages and nothing will get done.I am going to send off my manifolds and will post the results when I obtain them.Whoever wants to join in can join in...the whole this is better than that bs without sufficient data is getting really old.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UBER1.8t* »_More about that L-Sport Intake Manifold..

Cheers 

unfortunaly the company went out of business and so did the plans.
But like I said I was able to contact one of the engineers who helped in designing the intake. He will be making a new design in the future after he done with the rally teams


----------



## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_the whole this is better than that bs without sufficient data is getting really old.


x2


----------



## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*

yep
but the 007 shows some good gains and if you told the maker of that manifold where you wanted to gain the most power i think he could get it to work for ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tranny#3 (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: (spoolin turbo s)*

other than the GB on elite dubs, where else can we get a 007 intake mani?


----------



## QU1KGTI (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (tranny#3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tranny#3* »_other than the GB on elite dubs, where else can we get a 007 intake mani?

just contact the fabricator on elitedubs. or maybe Don can help you out.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (spoolin turbo s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spoolin turbo s* »_
but the 007 shows some good gains

I dont care....I have nothing to compare it to so as far as I am concerned all of them on the market are ****.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I dont care....I have nothing to compare it to so as far as I am concerned all of them on the market are ****.

Shortly we'll have stock, small port 007, and big port 007 all flowbenched. Want to contribute one of the Dahlback mani's for testing (to be returned immediately after) so we can have flowbench numbers on all of them from the same flowbench?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

All of those use the same TB?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Shortly we'll have stock, small port 007, and big port 007 all flowbenched. Want to contribute one of the Dahlback mani's for testing (to be returned immediately after) so we can have flowbench numbers on all of them from the same flowbench?

Sure
where am I sending the manifolds to?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_All of those use the same TB?

Actually, no, the small port 007 uses a 12V VR DBW throttle, the big port 007 uses the R32 DBW throttle, and the Dahlback uses the stock throttle I believe. Issam is willing to contribute the Dahlback for testing apparently, and I knew someone would say the different throttles would offset things, but regardless, the flowbench will show the gains of each comparatively. IM sent Issam.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

who is paying for the cost to flowbench all of these mani's? why not include an oem big port too?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_who is paying for the cost to flowbench all of these mani's? why not include an oem big port too? 

paypal is [email protected]







It's $60/mani. I'm not paying for the OEM big port but anyone who wants to contribute can.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

so, as of now, you're paying for the 3-4 manis to be flowbenched? any chance of having bob do it for the good of the community?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_so, as of now, you're paying for the 3-4 manis to be flowbenched? any chance of having bob do it for the good of the community? 

Because his flowbench will be more accurate? What are you getting at? Why does it matter who does the testing? It's not like we're going to fudge the results. lol 
Edit: Bob has indicated he has no desire to flowbench manifolds. 


_Modified by axlekiller at 11:41 AM 12-27-2006_


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Because his flowbench will be more accurate? What are you getting at? Why does it matter who does the testing? It's not like we're going to fudge the results. lol 
Edit: Bob has indicated he has no desire to flowbench manifolds. 

_Modified by axlekiller at 11:41 AM 12-27-2006_

wtf? you get aweful defensive when asked questions.








i suggested bob because, 
1-he has access to a flow bench (so it wouldn't cost YOU $60/mani)
2-he is part of the vag community, so i assumed he WOULD be interested
3-he is familiar with other manufacturers manifolds as well. (for honda/dsm/asian cars in general, and could offer an comparison)
next time, chill out man.








edit: spelling


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (mirror)*

I'm perfectly chill. Your assumptions were wrong.







And Bob's time and the dyno guy's time isn't free either.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_I'm perfectly chill. Your assumptions were wrong.







And Bob's time and the dyno guy's time isn't free either. 

it was a suggestion. thats all. nothing more, nothing less. no need to get defensive.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*

The shop that does this test will have their name dragged through the mud by you wolves. I don't blame him for his reservations.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_The shop that does this test will have their name dragged through the mud by you wolves. I don't blame him for his reservations.

For what? It's not like said "shop" makes any of the manifolds. Bob's reservations are based on the fact flowing a manifold doesn't tell you much about what's going on. Flowing a mani on a head would be more of an indicator of actual capabilities. However, Issam is pretty certain that the Dahlback mani will outperform all the "others," and we were going to flow the 007's anyways, so why not throw out the offer to include others?


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

sounds pimp to me. wish i had a mani to lend, since i'm not driving my car at the moment, but i doubt you want to flow an awp mani. lol


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_sounds pimp to me. wish i had a mani to lend, since i'm not driving my car at the moment, but i doubt you want to flow an awp mani. lol









since you must have sand in your eyes (much like a welder gets without a mask.







)

_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Shortly* we'll have stock*, small port 007, and big port 007 all flowbenched. Want to contribute one of the Dahlback mani's for testing (to be returned immediately after) so we can have flowbench numbers on all of them from the same flowbench?


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (mirror)*








my bad.
so, now that you've busted my balls for the day, go reply to my cat conv post, @sshole.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_paypal is [email protected] 

Ok lets get some paypal going on ladies... $0.40,$2...$5 anything.
If I see another manifold thread from any NON-contributor I will have it locked.Hows that for motivation?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Ok lets get some paypal going on ladies... $0.40,$2...$5 anything.
If I see another manifold thread from any NON-contributor I will have it locked.Hows that for motivation?










On a $1 paypal transaction, they took some 39 cents, hence the reason tickets for the raffles are $5 (and next time we will probably do $10 tickets).
And I can help you out a bit; I'd like to see this done.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_I'd like to see this done.

So would I but the term "empty vessels keep the most noise" come to mind.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_So would I but the term "empty vessels keep the most noise" come to mind.

I thought it was "empty vessels *make* the most noise"...


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

I will be dropping off 2 of the manifolds within the week. I will drop off a bone stock AWP mani and my new 007 small port (VR tB) at CPC in cleveland TN to be flowbenched. I will be coming out of pocket for those 2. But anyone who has a manifold they would like flowed, with results included and posted, as part of this test is MORE than welcome to ship it with money to Dizzy or myself. I assure you that it will return to you in good shape.
CPC will be doing the flowing because
they have a hell of a reputation for turning out some awesome port/ flow work. They will be able to form opinions and remark on each manifold comparitive to the OE unit.
They are primarily a small block ford shop. So they have nothing at all to gain or lose by tainting the results. I could almost bet money that neither Dan nor Dave have ever worked on a 20v
And as far as somebody dragging CPC through the mud... well, lol, cause dans a pretty big fella
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2os-eYeqa74
PS--- Paypal always welcome!!! [email protected]


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (silvercar)*

LOL @ Ford guys working on 20v heads. I'm paying for my 007 big port version and Wizard's Dahlback mani, so contributions are welcome. My paypal is at the top of the page, 3rd post.







If anyone wants to send any other mani's, speak up. I'm going to ask Keith if we can borrow an APR unit too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## frskniam (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
I wish this was back in production


























So what's the mani pictured here? Out of production but does anyone have one laying around?


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

who made that one?


----------



## frskniam (Nov 7, 2006)

All I know is just from the visual it looks like it has great equal flow, I wish I knew who made it.... Come on someone knows, and better yet someone has one laying around.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (frskniam)*

The new defunct L Sport out of Canada is who made it.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (frskniam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *frskniam* »_Out of production but does anyone have one laying around?









Dahlback unit is the closest to production.Ok so who sent paypal to see this happen?


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Dahlback unit is the closest to production.Ok so who sent paypal to see this happen?

me


----------



## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

Ok so who do I send paypal to I have something like 6.somthing spare $ im willing to send








I would be willing to contribute more but as Issam mentioned "empty vessels make the most noise"
So until I see the stones starting to roll thats all for now


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (talx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *talx* »_empty vessels make the most noise










So far we have the following intake manifolds being tested:
* Dahlback 
* 007 - small port
* 007 - big port
Can we get someone to contribute an APR,ABD & USRT?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

So should I test the stock small port or the transverse OEM big port mani as well? And why isn't anyone sending any money or any more manifolds ? lol


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_So should I test the stock small port or the transverse OEM big port mani as well? And why isn't anyone sending any money or any more manifolds ? lol 

both


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Paypal'd both axlekiller and silvercar


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Don R)*

BTW - Here is a pre-development design sim I was playing around with almost a year ago @ 18 psi & 25 psi with a turbo flowing around 54lbs


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

Well, that distribution looks reasonably equal (1st looks to get a bit more, but doesn't look like too much). That's a stock manifold? More details on your design sim?


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Paypal'd both axlekiller and silvercar









same http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Well, that distribution looks reasonably equal (1st looks to get a bit more, but doesn't look like too much). That's a stock manifold? More details on your design sim?

It's not a stock design. This is one of my preliminary designs...It's a tapered Obround shape - the design has evolved since then.
1st runner gets more b/c of the TB flange angle into the plenum causing a lot of undesired turbulence.


_Modified by Don R at 1:59 PM 1-2-2007_


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

Don and Peter, 
Thanks for the contribution!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If all goes as planned, i will drop the stock small port and the 007 smallport (vrtb) with Dan on thursday afternoon... hopefully i will have some nice flow numbers for you guys soon!
thanks again, and of course... paypal still welcomed








Tank


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Don and Peter, 
Thanks for the contribution!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If all goes as planned, i will drop the stock small port and the 007 smallport (vrtb) with Dan on thursday afternoon... hopefully i will have some nice flow numbers for you guys soon!
thanks again, and of course... paypal still welcomed








Tank

im just wonder if me and don are the only people who paypal'd lol.. Its like people want to see results but dont want to pay but then complain how well it will work


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_but then complain how well it will work









It wouldnt be vortex if we didnt have the bull****(ers)


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Thanks Don and Peter for the contributions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_








So far we have the following intake manifolds being tested:
* Dahlback 
* 007 - small port
* 007 - big port
Can we get someone to contribute an APR,ABD & USRT?

I have a RossRacing Mani


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
I have a RossRacing Mani

that would be great to see it tested too


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

PP'd silvercar ([email protected])
DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
PP'd axlekiller ([email protected])
DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










_Modified by inivid at 3:21 PM 1-2-2007_


----------



## Checkpoynt Charlie (Aug 4, 2004)

Just as a side question, would an intake manifold with the TB in the middle perform better than on the side?
This way, air gets divided more evenly among each runner and wouldn't have to take an extreme 90 degree turn into the runner.
Exactly like the A4 and Passat manifolds:
























Angling the runners so they sit closer together in the middle where the TB is would be an improvement over that stock design. Design it around the same lines of an "extended" cast exhaust mani of sorts









With the TB angled, I think this type of manifold would fit fine in the transverse bay, may be tight, but it'll fit. The oil dipstick may have to be moved slightly, otherwise it's all open right there.
My main question is, why isn't anyone building an intake manifold with the TB in the middle?


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_PP'd silvercar ([email protected])
DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
theAntiRiced
PP'd axlekiller ([email protected])
DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
theAntiRiced
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










forgot to add one.








keep it up!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (-Kage-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Kage-* »_With the TB angled, I think this type of manifold would fit fine in the transverse bay, may be tight, but it'll fit. The oil dipstick may have to be moved slightly, otherwise it's all open right there.

You get a dipstick from a 2.0FSiT.The only manifold I have seen with the throttle body in the middle is on one of the Lemans engine.Audi Motorsport with there insane budget used throttle bodies that where to one side as opposed to being in the middle.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (-Kage-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Kage-* »_Just as a side question, would an intake manifold with the TB in the middle perform better than on the side?
This way, air gets divided more evenly among each runner and wouldn't have to take an extreme 90 degree turn into the runner.
Angling the runners so they sit closer together in the middle where the TB is would be an improvement over that stock design. Design it around the same lines of an "extended" cast exhaust mani of sorts









With the TB angled, I think this type of manifold would fit fine in the transverse bay, may be tight, but it'll fit. The oil dipstick may have to be moved slightly, otherwise it's all open right there.
My main question is, why isn't anyone building an intake manifold with the TB in the middle? 

Space requirements. Yes, a plenum with a throttle in the middle will distribute air more evenly all other things equal compared to a throttle on one end, but it's not as simple as A > B obviously. If the runners were angled it would make a nice improvement if there was a nice smooth transition , but with a proper plenum this isn't necessary. More efforts should be spent on runner length and plenum design IMO than reinventing the wheel. Hopefully our testing will show something. Thanks to all contributors, I see a pattern devloping in the contributions.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

...or you can have a dual TB's on opposite sides of the plenum


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_...or you can have a dual TB's on opposite sides of the plenum









Well, sure you could, but why? You'd have to split the piping and snake one end around, sounds like an ugly PITA.
I do want to see it done though


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_...or you can have a dual TB's on opposite sides of the plenum









might as well do itb's at that point. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
might as well do itb's at that point. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Different concept all together for a boosted car.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Different concept all together for a boosted car.

yup, but if you're going to go through the time to align to tb's on a single plenum...why not make it 4? i mean, you could have an indiviual plenum for each cylinder if you wanted to...doesn't mean it's ideal. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
yup, but if you're going to go through the time to align to tb's on a single plenum...why not make it 4? i mean, you could have an indiviual plenum for each cylinder if you wanted to...doesn't mean it's ideal. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Because adding throttles on the plenum itself does not introduce turbulence and lower velocity right down in the runner, near the port inlet, like ITB's do...


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_Because adding throttles on the plenum itself does not introduce turbulence and lower velocity right down in the runner, near the port inlet, like ITB's do... 

Even if each TB had a plenum like Jason suggested? If you're going to make it 'needlessly' complicated, you might as well go all out.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

yes.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

Then I'd rather see a single TB mounted in the middle of a manifold wedged in there than a dual TB complication.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

yea, in practice, fitting complicated setups to these cars is quite difficult... 
The quad plenum / itb's idea makes my head hurt. Even on an engine dyno it'd be a pain in the ass. have to split the charge air totally evenly into the 4.. .
Perhaps a burns stainless collector stuck in there backwards.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
Because adding throttles on the plenum itself does not introduce turbulence and lower velocity right down in the runner, near the port inlet, like ITB's do... 

only if the tb's/runners were divided though. if there is nothing dividing the plenum...what a nightmare. HAHA. i just see no point in said intake. and i agree with you...i sure as hell would't want to think about fabrication time for single plenum's on itbs.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

...ok, so who else is going to contribute to the listed manifolds flowbenching?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

Found this on the MKIV forum. Very interesting looking setup.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Found this on the MKIV forum. Very interesting looking setup.

I'd love to run a exhaust manifold like that


----------



## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

paypal sent


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
im just wonder if me and don are the only people who paypal'd lol.. Its like people want to see results but dont want to pay but then complain how well it will work









lol.. i recieved some cheddaaaa from inivid as well. Plan is still to drop these 2 off tomorrow with CPC http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I had actually planned on doing this with my 2 manis for quite a while. My original plan was to do the flowbenching and then dyno at 17-18 psi, then again at 22-23 psi on both manifolds on the same day... I still plan on doing the dyno experiment as well. however, since my dyno guy is recovering from a nasty car wreck and surgeries, (and since yuo guys have money on it now lol) the results will be split into seperate posts now. But no worries, we will know somethinga about flow characteristics soon lol... 
As to the discussion regarding a center TB... have yuo guys ever seen a stock intake on a 5oh? seems that design would be great to me...









Also... Wizard, i sent you a PM regarding testing of the Dahlback. Has anyone gotten in touch with an APR rep, or USRT to see if they are willing to put it on the line?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_As to the discussion regarding a center TB... have yuo guys ever seen a stock intake on a 5oh? seems that design would be great to me...









The intake charge comes in the center, yes, but then it hits the top of the plenum and has to do a 180 into the cylinders. And we're birching about turbulance! I don't see how that's efficient at all. A 90° turn would be bad enough (if the TB was mounted on the side of the plenum), but having the TB on the same side of the plenum as the runners doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8vbunny* »_


















Yummy....4A-GE ITB's...where have I seen those before?









_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
Also... Wizard, i sent you a PM regarding testing of the Dahlback.

Got the address.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So whose running the testing?You or axelkiller?


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
The intake charge comes in the center, yes, but then it hits the top of the plenum and has to do a 180 into the cylinders. And we're birching about turbulance! I don't see how that's efficient at all. A 90° turn would be bad enough (if the TB was mounted on the side of the plenum), but having the TB on the same side of the plenum as the runners doesn't make any sense.

that motor was also designed as an NA motor...not FI.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Got the address.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So whose running the testing?You or axelkiller?

I will be delivering and picking things up from CPC... replied to your PM also

_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
The intake charge comes in the center, yes, but then it hits the top of the plenum and has to do a 180 into the cylinders. And we're birching about turbulance! I don't see how that's efficient at all. A 90° turn would be bad enough (if the TB was mounted on the side of the plenum), but having the TB on the same side of the plenum as the runners doesn't make any sense.

Its curved on the inside of the casting... seems to me that some amount of turbulence is inevitable. I think that the distribution characteristics would be well worth the trade off... 

Mirror:
every FI Fox i see has the factory style manifold.. Hell, often times i have seen where people will simply slice off the end of the upper and butt weld a strip of 2" al in to it to increase plenum volume. In fact, i believe thats what Saleen did on the SR351 also... (i wont swear to it though)


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_that motor was also designed as an NA motor...not FI.









And it did a turd of a job making power, even with aftermarket mods. I still wouldn't try and take too much from the design.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
So whose running the testing?You or axelkiller?

We're both coordinating the effort, but all testing will be done at the same facility, which is local to silvercar. I'm just helping in the funds and manifold department.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
We're both coordinating the effort, but all testing will be done at the same facility, which is local to silvercar. I'm just helping in the funds and manifold department.









Thats awesome. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
VRT are you sending the Ross Manifold?


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_VRT are you sending the Ross Manifold?

x2


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Boostin20v)*

hey, if you've contributed funds to this, quote my post above and add yourself to the list, so you're accounted for. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

Have we discussed this manifold much here?


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

i thought we just did, or did i miss something.


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

what do you want to discuss about it?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_i thought we just did, or did i miss something.









Oh, i'm an idiot, didn't really pay attention... guess it looked different on an engine... sorry...
Does the runner on the left get a little starved?


----------



## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_
PP'd silvercar ([email protected])DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
theAntiRiced
PP'd axlekiller ([email protected])DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
theAntiRiced
talx



Yup forgot me








but I didn’t have much in paypal so I only sent axlekiller and I forgot to ad my user name in the paypal sent from [email protected]


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (talx)*

Thus far I have been PP'd by Don, pete, and travis... The wizard is shipping out the Dahlback to me on Friday. So it should be here by the time i go to pick up the OE and my 007, and i can just knock that out in one trip..








Still no word from APR?


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
Still no word from APR?









you're suprised?


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_...ok, so who else is going to contribute to the listed manifolds flowbenching?









I would contribute my APR mani, but I need it to finish my car, and I already flow benched it. 
I could flow an AEB mani and an OEM drivers side TB big port mani to throw in the mix?
On that note have the bench guys flow them at 28" and have them do every runner individualy as well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh and the other runners need to be capped off during the individual runner tests.











_Modified by Wolk's Wagon at 8:31 PM 1-3-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

I wasn't going to bring it up here but yes, 28" and each runner at a time.


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_...and I already flow benched it.

Since I don't know much about flowbench equipment in general, I'd like to know how consistant they are from one to another. 
Could your APR mani's results be posted for accurate comparison, or would there be a considerable difference, similar to how dynos differentiate from one to the next?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
Still no word from APR?









I sent Keith a pm a while ago.He is not going to send out a manifold to be tested by a third party.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I sent Keith a pm a while ago.He is not going to send out a manifold to be tested by a third party.

That's a shame


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I sent Keith a pm a while ago.He is not going to send out a manifold to be tested by a third party.

Why would that be then?
does'nt it stand on its own merit? got to outflow a stock mani given its throttle body size.
Whats the correlation between prospective flowbench results and respective power levels people are running?
Is this their reason?


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (badger5)*

Didn't you say you APR mani has already been flowed? Why not supliment comparison of the others with those results?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Thats awesome. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
VRT are you sending the Ross Manifold?

I haven't been asked


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
I haven't been asked 

Go for it Rob


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_Didn't you say you APR mani has already been flowed? Why not supliment comparison of the others with those results?

you replying to me?
I did'nt say it was already done... just asking why APR would'nt submit one, unless they feared results would be inconclusive, hence my other questions. Its got a big 75mm t'body so should outflow a stock one just because of that.



_Modified by badger5 at 6:38 PM 1-4-2007_


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_
Since I don't know much about flowbench equipment in general, I'd like to know how consistant they are from one to another. 
Could your APR mani's results be posted for accurate comparison, or would there be a considerable difference, similar to how dynos differentiate from one to the next?

I'd be happy to post up my APR results, in fact I already did.








Yes as long as everyone uses the same parameters ie. 28" of vacuum and the same format of testing. Suck thru the runner with the others taped off at the flange, no velocity stack on the TB flange and so on. The results sould be close.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Alec, you mind if you repost them so peeps are aware that you already had it tested please


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

nice can't wait for this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

Also curious to see this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Keep in mind people, whatever the outcome is with these manifolds it should not be considered defenitive based on its flowbench results.
Again, I want to stress that an intake manifold undergoes dynamic pressure, transient flow, temps and is part of a 'larger system'.


_Modified by Don R at 2:52 PM 1-4-2007_


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Alec, you mind if you repost them so peeps are aware that you already had it tested please









Here you go.....
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2604980
I have an idea. We could have the other shops flow a stock small port mani as a baseline to compare the different benches?


_Modified by Wolk's Wagon at 11:53 AM 1-4-2007_


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_
I have an idea. We could have the other shops flow a stock small port mani as a baseline to compare the different benches?

Good idea http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

thanks for the link http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and great idea as well.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Keep in mind people, whatever the outcome is with these manifolds it should not be considered defenitive based on its flowbench results.
_Modified by Don R at 2:52 PM 1-4-2007_

Very true. But I want to throw it out there that my reason behind the flow bench comparo was entirely driven by the questions about runner distribution. That should hold true to form on a running engine, should it not?
UPDATE: I just carried the 007 small port and the OE small port to CPC. Ill go ahead and share their initial impressions of both manifolds. 
Their biggest gripe with the stock one was the injector placement. he said that revising that alone would a world of difference, he thought, since it appears to kill the port area.
The 007 manifold, he liked... he thought it was well built. And liked the injector bosses much better. He also said that the throttle angle and plenum shape should help the cause.
So... Hopefully by monday or tuesday we will have some flow and volume data on these bad mamma jammas.


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
Their biggest gripe with the stock one was the injector placement. he said that revising that alone would a world of difference, he thought, since it appears to kill the port area.


That's what my guys said about the stock one and the APR unit as well, but he thought the flow #s out of the APR were quite good even though.
As he pointed out, the APR runners outflow the the P&P big port intake port and that's all that matters.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Keep in mind people, whatever the outcome is with these manifolds it should not be considered defenitive based on its flowbench results.

Flowbenching them gives a pretty damn good base to how they will perform in "the real world".


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

Not really. Flowbenching doesn't tell you anything about how the manifold performs in a dynamic situation and how well it is matched to the engines characteristics... When it comes to making a good exhaust manifold, a couple inches in either direction of length can totally double or negate all your gains. The same is true on an intake manifold and these do not show up via flow bench testing. All it tells you is which flows the most in a static environment.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_The 007 manifold, he liked... he thought it was well built. And liked the injector bosses much better. He also said that the throttle angle and plenum shape should help the cause.
So... Hopefully by monday or tuesday we will have some flow and volume data on these bad mamma jammas.









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Flowbenching them gives a pretty damn good base to how they will perform in "the real world".


Issam, I'll have to disagree with you










_Modified by Don R at 11:29 PM 1-4-2007_


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Keep in mind people, whatever the outcome is with these manifolds it should not be considered defenitive based on its flowbench results.
Again, I want to stress that an intake manifold undergoes dynamic pressure, transient flow, temps and is part of a 'larger system'.

_Modified by Don R at 2:52 PM 1-4-2007_

that was my question earlier up the thread..
we will see some bench "results", and then what?
Correlate bench results to a whole variety of turbo installs and power outputs etc etc etc... 6 of one bakers dozen of the other?
Next step being the bench results to actual engine specs these mani's might go on to.
going to be interesting to try and make sense of this.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*

it won't be interesting. it'll be more speculation.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_6 of one bakers dozen of the other?

6 of one and 13 of another








I know what you mean though...


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
6 of one and 13 of another








I know what you mean though...








lol yea... should have been 1/2 a bakers dozen, 6 of the other... but yea... a mismatch either way and as many further questions as answers.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*

It'll show their relative rankings in terms of flow restrictions, nothing more, nothing less. Yes, there is no formula that says xx cfm in an intake mani = yy HP at the cranka, but it will show possible flow rates, and cfm's have to be there to reach certain HP levels. If your intake mani is a restriction, it'll limit your charge velocity and therefore your volumentric flow rate and ultimately your HP level.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

For close to real world testing...someone should flowbench the mani on the head having a contraption to rotate the cams @ different rpm with the manifold pressurized monitoring seperate flow meters inserted into the fuel injection bungs.
Who down for that?


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_For close to real world testing...someone should flowbench the mani on the head having a contraption to rotate the cams @ different rpm with the manifold pressurized monitoring seperate flow meters inserted into the fuel injection bungs.
Who down for that?









Not I.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
Everywhere I see and read usually people try and stuff the largest plenum they can and make it work, but the runner size is usually not something most people discuss (they just opt for the typical american way, 'bigger is better'), but maybe not in this case, *having slightly skinnier runners would help the velocity of the air entering the combustion chamber? Wouldn't this create greater flow and hence a better explosion?* People's thoughts are appreciated!
* Second, I've been contemplating plenum size, but it seems that with turbo cars bigger is usually better so maybe having smaller runners will assist with combustion? Thoughts?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*

It's always going to be a trade off/fine line between flow rate and runner/tube size. There are tricks for velocity, like runner length, taper, curve, stacks, radiused entries, etc. Velocity is going to be dynamic, not steady state, hence why flowbenching isn't the end all be all.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

Bringing back the discussion of thin runners for fast higher velocity v.s fatter runners in an attempt to dump all you can into the engine sparked this thought:
Maybe having the injectors way the hell out in the middle of the runner makes for a better mix and a cleaner, more effecient engine? So sure, you could move then out of the way and get a higher flowbench reading, but it could make the engine sloppier...


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Maybe having the injectors way the hell out in the middle of the runner makes for a better mix and a cleaner, more effecient engine? So sure, you could move then out of the way and get a higher flowbench reading, but it could make the engine sloppier...

wouldnt moving the injectors up the runners help lower aits? I read somewhere that indycars use an extra injector or two to lower aits buy injecting fuel in the intake. So would raising the injectors up be benifical or will it screw up the a/f mixture?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

The injectors are designed to have a wide spray into the head, moving them farther up would increase the delay time for fuel to enter the engine, could cause pooling on the top of the valves, and wouldn't offer a wide spray pattern so different injectors would need to be used.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Maybe having the injectors way the hell out in the middle of the runner makes for a better mix and a cleaner, more effecient engine? So sure, you could move then out of the way and get a higher flowbench reading, but it could make the engine sloppier...

No need.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

what intake is that?


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*

whoops i was wrong lol small port 007










_Modified by O2VW1.8T at 2:11 PM 1-5-2007_


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*HPA INTAKE MANIFOLD (Yeah I know it's not for a 1.8T)*









most importantly not for which application but the design as that is what this thread is about:
Short Runner Intake Manifolds

Efficient. Torquey. Strength
The cast aluminum short runner intake manifolds used on all intercooled HPA turbo systems are velocity tuned to maximize the air intake to all six cylinders. The positioning of the intake and throttle body, and therefore the shorter distance the charge air must travel, results in quicker spool up and less turbo lag. The longevity of their strong cast construction eliminates the inherent weakness and heat sensitivity of the original plastic intake manifold, and means they can sustain higher boost levels and will last the lifetime of your engine.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_what intake is that?

Mine Rob, small port 007 driver side. Check out my sig










_Modified by Don R at 2:10 PM 1-5-2007_


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: HPA INTAKE MANIFOLD (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_








most importantly not for which application but the design as that is what this thread is about:
Short Runner Intake Manifolds

Efficient. Torquey. Strength
The cast aluminum short runner intake manifolds used on all intercooled HPA turbo systems are velocity tuned to maximize the air intake to all six cylinders. The positioning of the intake and throttle body, and therefore the shorter distance the charge air must travel, results in quicker spool up and less turbo lag. The longevity of their strong cast construction eliminates the inherent weakness and heat sensitivity of the original plastic intake manifold, and means they can sustain higher boost levels and will last the lifetime of your engine. 


VR6 head is much different in design with the size and length of the ports so a shorter runner mani is better suited not only that there really isn't much room for innovation there.
Here it is on one of SEM VRT's








Little hard to see but you can see it being already tight in the engine bay.


















_Modified by Don R at 2:26 PM 1-5-2007_


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

What injectors ar we looking at in there?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_What injectors ar we looking at in there?


They are Seimens DEKA 630cc.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

I know something yall dont know... neener neener neener


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_I know something yall dont know... neener neener neener









bastid


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
bastid









Haha.. He just gave me a little tidbit... not really the data yet... but the number 55 did come up


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_I know something yall dont know... neener neener neener









lemme guess, you spent our money on drinks and girls?


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_
lemme guess, you spent our money on drinks and girls?










But i have naked pictures of hookers holding and licking the manis??? would that satisfy you guys for results??








jk...
I just logged onto my local forum and got a PM from CPC... it read:
hey this is david just thought i would give you a heads up i flowed one runner one the new manifold and one on the old and the new manifold is alot better... about 55cfm so far.... i'll keep you posted.... david

So, Im assuming that the full testing has not commenced.. just looks like curiousity got the best of him... 
but that puts at least one runner in the 220-230 range i think. which is nice... Cant wait till he gets done so we can compare the whole smear of data.. 
cheers.. Tank


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_I know something yall dont know... neener neener neener









Dont confuse the threads.When you collect ALL the data,make a new thread and stu will have it either stickied or FAQ'ed.This thread is for gathering information & donations/contributions.
Dahlback manifold out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*

thanks don http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_When you collect ALL the data,make a new thread and stu will have it either stickied or FAQ'ed.

Any new thread with the data gathered her will certainly be in the FAQ!


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_Any new thread with the data gathered her will certainly be in the FAQ!


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (inivid)*

Come on fellas.. pony up. I will have a dahlback and a 007 big port on my doorstep soon. and im already 70 out of pocket. I can do a little more but some of yuo are gonna have to kick in do get all of these tested.
thanks to those who have already paypald me... 
Don r
O2VW1.8T
inivid


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*

i'll find out sunday if the guy buys my trans i';; paypal 20 or so bucks again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

What's your paypal? I'll kick in a few $$


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_What's your paypal? I'll kick in a few $$

[email protected]
dizzys is
[email protected]


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*

Any ideas on how to get the large port manifold available from ECS to work? Possibly make a large plenum with 4 outlets to connect to the runners and a opening for a larger TB. 

Money sent!










_Modified by skydaman at 8:37 PM 1-6-2007_


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*

Since no one ante's up I've sent a 2nd contribution to both you.
Thanks again


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Since no one ante's up I've sent a 2nd contribution to both you.
Thanks again









thanks don. ^pillar of the community. thanks to you other guys too! sykdaman, jimmy. props for helping out...
In regard to the posting of the flow data:
For one, i plan on simply posting the flow sheets for each manifold. But i would also like to post a (I believe parallel) bar graph for each runner and label the bars with the name of the corresponding manifold. Cyl one would be closest to the TB and 4 farthest obviously. 
Any feedback on that? is the idea clear?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 18, 2006)

_Quote »_PP'd silvercar ([email protected])DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
theAntiRiced
LoxiaS
PP'd axlekiller ([email protected])DonR
O2VW1.8T
inivid
theAntiRiced
talx

Contribution sent to Silvercar!


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_For one, i plan on simply posting the flow sheets for each manifold. But i would also like to post a (I believe parallel) bar graph for each runner and label the bars with the name of the corresponding manifold. Cyl one would be closest to the TB and 4 farthest obviously. 

That assumes a manifold with a passenger side throttle body.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_
That assumes a manifold with a passenger side throttle body.

Right. thats what im trying to say. ( i knew it wouldnt make sense lol) assuming a pass TB the cylinders would be labeled L to R 1-2-3-4.but in the case of a drivers side TB I would like to label the bars R to L 1-2-3-4... Is that a little more clear? does anyone have an objection to presenting the data like that?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
Right. thats what im trying to say. ( i knew it wouldnt make sense lol) assuming a pass TB the cylinders would be labeled L to R 1-2-3-4.but in the case of a drivers side TB I would like to label the bars R to L 1-2-3-4... Is that a little more clear? does anyone have an objection to presenting the data like that?









No..sounds good to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*

as soon as dizzy tells me I'll paypal him money...i am not sure if he has all the parts yet... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

sent.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (enginerd)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just got word from CPC that the manifolds are done and ready to be picked up. So I will go pick them up and pay them Thursday, and hopefully have a wrieup for you guys before the weekend.


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (silvercar)*

You could hold out on the information till people pay you.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

money sent, not much but what i could spare. Sorry poor college kid







but not for much longer.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Just got word from CPC that the manifolds are done and ready to be picked up. So I will go pick them up and pay them Thursday, and hopefully have a wrieup for you guys before the weekend.









WAIT UNTIL YOU GET ALL THE MANIFOLDS TESTED PLEASE.
(LMK when the Dhalback unit gets tested)
If APR does not send a manifold then its automatically assumed to be garbage by default.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_WAIT UNTIL YOU GET ALL THE MANIFOLDS TESTED PLEASE.
(LMK when the Dhalback unit gets tested)
If APR does not send a manifold then its automatically assumed to be garbage by default.









Yours will get dropped off with my 007 big port, which should be in my hands by middle of next week. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_You could hold out on the information till people pay you.









that's what i'd do. true baller stylz.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_If APR does not send a manifold then its automatically assumed to be garbage by default.










Basically


----------



## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

hrmm.. this could be interesting..


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (transient_analysis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *transient_analysis* »_hrmm.. this could be interesting..

i didn't know you still had an account here. you post like once a year.









definitely looking forward to results.







any news on when dizz will have his group finished? mmmm.....i'm thinking week after next, at latest?


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

The APR mani has already been tested, what more do you want out it?


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_The APR mani has already been tested, what more do you want out it?








Just messin with 'em because they won't send one out to anyone to test. It's a buy then try deal. Plus, I'm bitter because they won't make a passenger side TB version.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_The APR mani has already been tested, what more do you want out it?

So had the Dhalback,ABD,007,USRT,etc etc etc manifold...
the whole point of this project was to test all the manifolds equally so that we can draw conclusions.Saying that the APR manifold has been tested allready is like saying I am going to dyno my car today in -10*C weather and dyno it in the summer in +25*C weather expecting to obtain the same dyno graph.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Am I missing something? Is the Ross Machine manifold being tested?


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
So had the Dhalback,ABD,007,USRT,etc etc etc manifold...
the whole point of this project was to test all the manifolds equally so that we can draw conclusions.Saying that the APR manifold has been tested allready is like saying I am going to dyno my car today in -10*C weather and dyno it in the summer in +25*C weather expecting to obtain the same dyno graph.


Are they not being tested in two different shops on two different days?
I have not seen any flow data for all the manifolds you listed.
Like I suggested you could use the stock manifold as a baseline and just use the delta of the other manifold #s to level the field between benches and atmospheric conditions.


_Modified by Wolk's Wagon at 8:30 PM 1-10-2007_


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_Like I suggested you could use the stock manifold as a baseline and just use the delta of the other manifold #s to level the field between benches and atmospheric conditions.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_Am I missing something? Is the Ross Machine manifold being tested?

I think VRT was going to send his?


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

Post up the graph without a legend. E-mail the raw data to those who paid. Should get the Paypal flowing. If you need some excel assistance send it my way [email protected]


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (enginerd)*

where exactly is paypal going to?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_where exactly is paypal going to?

[email protected]
or [email protected]
send whatever you can...its not fair for these guys to pay for testing the manifolds to benefit "US" as a community.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
[email protected]
or [email protected]
send whatever you can...its not fair for these guys to pay for testing the manifolds to benefit "US" as a community.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

Ok. I picked up both of the manifolds and had a long conversation with Dan about making power in general (VERY knowledgable guy). I also have the flow data sitting right in front of me. But as the Wizard suggested, perhaps we should wait until all of the participating manifolds are tested and make one graph and one post (i tend to agree, simply for the reason that the information will not be separated. And of course someone will have to put all of the information into one graph and start a new thread, or post in both. In which case we would all be participating in 2 of the same conversations. etc. etc.)
However, as it stands right now, the only 2 remaining manifolds we have _ COMMITTED _ for testing are the Dahlback SP and the 007 BP. which would round out the test as follows:
Stock AWP
007 small port
007 big port
Dahlback small port
Dont get me wrong, that will be a lot of information to digest. but if anyone has another aftermarket manifold of any kind, please feel free to get in on the testing! Its only about a 40 minute drive for me up to CPC, so i will GLADLY make it as many times as are needed.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*

I appreciate your efforts thanks!


----------



## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*

anyone see if scott at USRT would lend one for testing,
was anyone will ing to lend a ross machining manifold
guys i would have sent you all some money but i haven't had any income at all in 10 months







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif if i could i sure as well would http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (spoolin turbo s)*

I will send my RMR


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_I will send my RMR 

sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (silvercar)*

VRT is going to send his RMR manifold. Possibly, if enough people want to contribute, we could test the RMR and the OEM big port transverse mani I'm currently running.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_I will send my RMR 

Right-on Rob thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

Did anyone PM Scott for a USRT mani?


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (skydaman)*

as of yet, i havent. who is the guy who builds the USRT manis? hk7something???


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_Did anyone PM Scott for a USRT mani?


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_as of yet, i havent. who is the guy who builds the USRT manis? hk7something???

HKK Motorsport no longer fabricates anything for USRT. There's a fairly short story to be told about that. Basically, HKK owner, Greg Haley, got busy with other things and simply stopped producing parts for us even after being pre-paid for all work done. We were kept waiting for months and were eventually forced to refund thousands of customer's dollars -including skydaman (right, Zach?). That money is still owed to USRT and attempts to collect on the debt have gone almost entirely ignored. The disruption could have sunk us, but we're still here!
Since then, we've brought the production closer to home. We now have control over every aspect of design and distribution (which was a challenge before). We will provide full dyno testing results, too -another point of contention with previous offerings. I hope to make announcements some time in the coming month. We're down to financing stage a this point.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_I will send my RMR 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I spoke with Bobqzzi tonight and he has the following manifolds:
* Hypertune
* RMR 
* BP,SP and an OEM transverse bigport
Now asking bob to pay to ship any of these is not fair.I would love to get as much manifolds tested as possible so if you guys are willing to send Uncle Bob some $$ to his paypal it would be greatly appreciated.
What?Newbs cant contribute?
p.s. What bench are these manifolds being tested on?


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
HKK Motorsport no longer fabricates anything for USRT. There's a fairly short story to be told about that. Basically, HKK owner, Greg Haley, got busy with other things and simply stopped producing parts for us even after being pre-paid for all work done. We were kept waiting for months and were eventually forced to refund thousands of customer's dollars -including skydaman (right, Zach?). 

Yes that is correct, I'm still waiting and look forward to the new one.
BTW - I sent Bobqzzi some $


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (skydaman)*

what is the hypertune one. If someone hurry up and buys my trans i will send some money lol


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_what is the hypertune one. 

the one people used to call Full Race


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I spoke with Bobqzzi tonight and he has the following manifolds:
* Hypertune
* RMR 
* BP,SP and an OEM transverse bigport


I've been wanting to see data on that Hypertune mani for a grip. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'll be sending more money in the coming week. My mad money is 100% tied up until then. 
This is excellent that this is happening and major props to dizz and tank for getting this going. We owe you guys a keg.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (inivid)*

Its a superflow... I cant remember the exact model # right off hand. But i will ask the next time im up that way.... hopefully late this week


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (silvercar)*

tossed a few bucks into the pool, hope it helps http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Tetzuoe)*

Thanks for the contribution. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*

Here some good reading on Leehmann type manifold design .







Bob.G
http://forums.evolutionm.net/s...96546

http://www.magnusmotorsports.c...m.htm


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_tossed a few bucks into the pool, hope it helps http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

More than helps.BUMP


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
http://www.magnusmotorsports.c...m.htm

The Magnus Special Race manifold looks very very much like USRT's new intake manifold.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (skydaman)*

At this rate, the data won't get released and you can call pay on your own to have all the intakes tested.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_ 
The stock Small Port Manifold flows 172 CFM average @28" of vacuum. 

Wolk's, can you get the data of each runner, not an average?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
The Magnus Special Race manifold looks very very much like USRT's new intake manifold.

That special race manifold will be replaced with one I'm in the midst of designing for him


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_That special race manifold will be replaced with one I'm in the midst of designing for him










How similiar are they? The Magnus claims a 40hp gain would that hold true to the USRT?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_

How similiar are they? The Magnus claims a 40hp gain would that hold true to the USRT?

Sorry, you cannot compare the 2 since magnus intakes are for DSM/Mitsu's yielding a lot more power on average to a 1.8T application...and I cannot share any info regarding the new design.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Sorry, you cannot compare the 2 since magnus intakes are for DSM/Mitsu's yielding a lot more power on average to a 1.8T application...and I cannot share any info regarding the new design.

The two manifolds look almost exact and there are quite a few 1.8's running around with DSM killing power







But I understand your obligations.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
The two manifolds look almost exact and there are quite a few 1.8's running around with DSM killing power







But I understand your obligations. 

Thanks


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (Don R)*

We're willing to contribute $150 to this cause. How should the money be divided amongst the people?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_We're willing to contribute $150 to this cause. How should the money be divided amongst the people? 

PM sent.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_We're willing to contribute $150 to this cause. How should the money be divided amongst the people? 

Right-on Mike - much appreciated! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Wolk's, can you get the data of each runner, not an average? 

I remember them being pretty consistant?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_I remember them being pretty consistant?

You listed an average flow rate in your results. We're not seeing consistency across all four runners.


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

great info!! bump!


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
You listed an average flow rate in your results. We're not seeing consistency across all four runners. 

Well you do have to be consistant in your testing.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk’s Wagon* »_Well you do have to be consistant in your testing.

The testing was consistent, just the results weren't. The stock intake is the only one that's had this problem, hence why I asked if you could get individual results since you only listed an average. If you don't want to isolate the differences, we'll assume your results of the APR intake are incomparable.


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

How much variation are you seeing? How are you blocking off the other runners? 
I could have it re-tested, but it won't be anytime soon. I don't remember there being any huge differences, but then again it's been a while.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

An easier solution would be for you to send your APR manifold since your car isn't running.


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

Well I read pretty much the entire thread in about half an hour and i just thought i'd pitch in some points:
To cover the original question, port/runner cross sectional area dictates gas velocity, not so much length. Basically smaller runners deliver faster gas velocity. Factory manifolds have small runners to have fast gas velocity at low RPM's, which promotes turbulence in the combustion chamber and gives good torque characteristics in a lower RPM range. Increasing the runner diameter will increase the amount that runner can flow but to the detriment of the gas velocity, moving the same gas velocity to higher RPM's. This is beneficial when one is designing a high RPM motors etc.
To address everyone who HATES velocity stacks now, I'd have to say you missed the point of the Supra manifold test. The velocity stacks are not a RESTRICTION to the intake, but the flow bench operators opinion was that there was considerable turbulence made in the plenum, with the stacks sticking up and away from the face of the plenum. A velocity stack is no more than a radiused horn to smooth airflow and increase gas velocity by means of a tapered shape.
The reason that turbo motors see less from a well designed intake manifold is the characteristics of when the turbo will spool up. VW motors don't have enough space to fit runners long enough to benefit anywhere less than 6 or 7k RPM. As such, the turbo spools at much lower speeds and the benefits of a properly designed intake manifold are shrouded by the spike in power from the boost.
Pulse wave tuning or otherwise known as the helmholtz resonance only works with intake systems using a plenum, N/A ITB systems don't benefit from helmholz. One major problem with ITB's and boost is the increase in possible vacuum/boost leaks. You go from two bushings, one on either end of a throttle plate to eight, with a four cylinder engine, as well as a host of vacuum feeds from each runner that have to be collected at a vacuum reservoir if you're running a boosted motor. That mitsu manifold overcomes leaks by encasing the TB's in an aluminum box. There was another encased ITB picture but i forgot what it was. Running ITB's in a forced induction situation DOES help by reducing pumping losses. The cross sectional area through four 43mm throttle bodies is larger than a single 70mm throttle body. This reduces pumping losses, or in other words creates less restriction.
Looking at that Magnus Motorsports website and their 'race spec' manifold, this quote demonstrates a bit of what I'm trying to get across: "This style intake was designed for the high revving motors that spend the better part of their time above the 8000 RPM range. Variations of the Race manifold have tested to be able to improve engine breathing up to 10,500 RPM"
Fuel injector location! I saw some tidbits on this. From my questioning of an EFI engineer at a firm that now builds the entire Honda field of IRL engines, injectors near the port shooting at the valves has benefits for low RPM. Now there is setups to place injectors directly over the trumpet/velocity stack, one that comes to mind is from TWM Induction. This setup is recommended only for high RPM uses as at low RPM it has poor fuel delivery into the cylinder.
http://twminduction.com/Thrott....html
Flowbench readings from seperate flow benches shouldn't be compared. For a REAL accurate comparison, all manifolds should be flowed in the same day on the same bench. Flowbenchs are like dyno's, every day they will read different. Such things affecting flow benches are ambient temperature, atmospheric pressure, and humidity. Obviously these things aren't even consistent from hour to hour most days. What flowbenchs do for people is allow them to match cylinder head and intake manifold runners flow to eachother to give an optimal distribution of air/fuel, to ensure each cylinder has the same A/F ratio. A flow bench will let you find the static flow of an intake manifold runner, but it will not tell you anything about the resonance performance of that manifold which is dictated entirely by runner length. I think I may have stated a few things twice but that's my input.


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*

Like this


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*

Geoff, that's the most comprehensive technical post i've read in a while. thank you sir. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (inivid)*

Thanks to Mike P for the contribution. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Hay Don. hare's one for the Mitsu guys.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (skydaman)*

Bump
Want to send my mani- Need an address


_Modified by VRT at 10:55 AM 1-17-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (VRT)*

PM sent Rob. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Anyone else for contributions?...We'd like to get one of the Hypertunes in on this flowbench comparison.
Thanks!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

Don, for the record, I'll be happy to loan a USRT intake manifold for testing once the new stuff is available. We got screwed so badly by the last fabricator, though, that mustering up the finances to restart has been a challenge. We'll be back for sure, though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Ok great Scott http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif silvercar and axlekiller are the gents in charge of this operation if you can please coordinate with them that would be great








Thanks.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Awesome! That's quite a list of manifolds that are getting tested! (I aught to PayPal more money...)


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

OEM small and big port, 007 small and big port, RMR and Dahlback, looks like we might include the Hypertune and USRT. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Guys, look, here is a test being held for a whole bunch of aftermarket products and no one wants to be a sponsor/promoter?
007, RMR, Dahlback, Hypertune, now USRT...
Every one of them would love to see how their product hold up compare to the competitor, and no one wants to sponsor the test.
Why would us - broke a$$ enthusiasts have to pay for it?


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*

It's actually better that none of the manufacturers sponsor the testing....it gives it a better chance of unbiased results....


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_Guys, look, here is a test being held for a whole bunch of aftermarket products and no one wants to be a sponsor/promoter?
007, RMR, Dahlback, Hypertune, now USRT...
Every one of them would love to see how their product hold up compare to the competitor, and no one wants to sponsor the test.

a) Speaking for my own company only... the new USRT manifolds don't exist (physically), yet. We're in the post-design and pre-fabrication stage. It will take us some time for us to earn the cash flow to make a production run. This assumes that HKK continues to default on refunding our money.
b) I assure you that I'm more broke than the average enthusiast. Got Ramen? Mmm, tasty.








c) Enthusiasts paying for testing ensures that everything is done objectively and that no punches are pulled. Do you want an unbiased review or not?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_It's actually better that none of the manufacturers sponsor the testing....it gives it a better chance of unbiased results....









Agreed Scott. And this is why the contribution from Mike P was unexpected and appreciated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Bump
Want to send my mani- Need an address

Dont forget the customs form as its being returned.You going to have it value @ $100 to ease with duties?I think not....


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Don't worry about what I need to do to have the mani sent back.


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*

http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
c) Enthusiasts paying for testing ensures that everything is done objectively and that no punches are pulled. Do you want an unbiased review or not?

Yeah. true there. But i really dont plan on offering any sort of opinions. I plan on presenting all flow and capacity data in bar graph form when its time to do the write up on all of this activity. I want to remain as objective as possible. the only opinions i will include on the manifolds are those of the flowbench peeps (if they offer any). otherwise its straight data really. 
But yes, thank you Mike P for the donations. And thank you to the rest of you who have contributed manifolds or money. It is genuinely appreciated. and maybe we can all learn something when this is finished. 
PS. I recieved most of the paypals around the same time, so if you sent me something please shoot me a PM via vortex IM with your name as it appears on paypal. I want to be able to include the SNs of anyone who gave something with the writeup


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Please remove the stick from up your ass....this attitude for 3 years going on 4 is getting rather ****ing old.Dont send your ****ing manifold,someone else will.


No they won't, so if you can't act civil, please refrain. I'll handle his customs forms.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Please remove the stick from up your ass....this attitude for 3 years going on 4 is getting rather ****ing old.Dont send your ****ing manifold,someone else will.


Wow, how many times I've thought about saying that to you! You don't need to add your .02 cents worth everywhere!!!


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

"Don't forget the customs form as its being returned.You going to have it value @ $100 to ease with duties?I think not...."
Your the one that became abrasive, I volunteered my manifold which I am shipping at my own cost and will pay to ship back.
If anyone has/had a problem its seems to be you








I could careless what you do with your things. Please feel free to do the same.


_Modified by VRT at 4:33 PM 1-17-2007_


----------



## leeG (Dec 15, 2001)

I'm not a regular on this forum but I'd like to throw in some ££
If thats ok, Whom am I sending it too.
Lee


----------



## 1QuickDub (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: (leeG)*

O/P is my dawg...HOLLA


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
a) Speaking for my own company only... the new USRT manifolds don't exist (physically), yet. We're in the post-design and pre-fabrication stage. It will take us some time for us to earn the cash flow to make a production run. This assumes that HKK continues to default on refunding our money.
b) I assure you that I'm more broke than the average enthusiast. Got Ramen? Mmm, tasty.








c) Enthusiasts paying for testing ensures that everything is done objectively and that no punches are pulled. Do you want an unbiased review or not?

Scott, I am aware that USRT is not a huge corporation with a multi-billion dollar budget, however you are having a good chance to objectively test your prototype manifold. Would it worth to donate a few bucks?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_Scott... you are having a good chance to objectively test your prototype manifold. Would it worth to donate a few bucks?









Well... we simply can't test what doesn't exist, yet. I wouldn't mind a head to head comparison once my stuff is ready, though. However, if the testing isn't done under the same environmental conditions, then the results are moot, no?


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Scott are you talking about the new Version 3 (not 100% sure on that version #) not being ready yet? If so are one of the older versions laying around just for comparisons sake for the people that have it. 
If not does anyone have a USRT manifold to send in for testing?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_Scott are you talking about the new Version 3 (not 100% sure on that version #) not being ready yet? If so are one of the older versions laying around just for comparisons sake for the people that have it.

USRT manifold versions 1 - 3 do not resemble what we're cooking up now. As you know, we haven't sold any intakes in months because HKK suddenly stopped fabricating for us (and subsequently ran away with a pile of our money). This is a serious legal matter and our council advised us to change the design so as to avoid future conflicts of interest. So, even though the version 3.0 manifolds were quite good, we've started from scratch all over again. It might be interesting to test one of the v3.0 manifolds, but it will be a purely academic exercise.
I wish we were riding high upon the success we had earlier in 2006, but we were hurt very badly.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
Your the one that became abrasive, I volunteered my manifold which I am shipping at my own cost and will pay to ship back.
If anyone has/had a problem its seems to be you








I could careless what you do with your things. Please feel free to do the same.

I was just offering my friendly advice seeing as I went through the same thing of shipping across the border.There was no need for the








icon.In keeping with the spirit I have deleted my post


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: (monster007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *monster007* »_Hay Don. hare's one for the Mitsu guys.


















who made that exhaust?!


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (carbide01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbide01* »_
who made that exhaust?!

[email protected] http://www.monster-turbo.com


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Don R)*

is that mani swain coated?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_is that mani swain coated? 

looks like it...


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
[email protected] http://www.monster-turbo.com

They don't have a price listed for their 1.8T intake manifold. Is that manifold being tested? Some nice stuff over there...


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_is that mani swain coated? 

It was done at our local ceramic coating facility.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
They don't have a price listed for their 1.8T intake manifold. Is that manifold being tested? Some nice stuff over there...

The intake mani is the 007 intake that will be tested along with the others listed in this thread.
More info on the intake in my sig.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Don't think we forgot about the A4 long. cars...as you can see


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_The intake mani is the 007 intake that will be tested along with the others listed in this thread.
More info on the intake in my sig.

Looks good but the before/after dyno graph leaves me weary. The before run is at 95 degrees and 300hp, the next day 83 degrees and only 309hp. I see the torque gains but not the 20hp. Like the midrange torque gain! Looking at the big port passenger side with a larger throttle body such the one from a VR.
Of course running a 12.3 with 300hp ain't bad either http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
Looks good but the before/after dyno graph leaves me weary. The before run is at 95 degrees and 300hp, the next day 83 degrees and only 309hp. I see the torque gains but not the 20hp. Like the midrange torque gain! Looking at the big port passenger side with a larger throttle body such the one from a VR.
Of course running a 12.3 with 300hp ain't bad either http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Compare delta area of the curves and you will see there's a 25whp difference and 20 wtq thru the mid-range.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Compare delta area of the curves and you will see there's a 25whp difference and 20 wtq thru the mid-range.

Good point, I'll be more interested after the intake manifold comparo is done. All in all it looks good though!


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (leeG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leeG* »_I'm not a regular on this forum but I'd like to throw in some ££
If thats ok, Whom am I sending it too.
Lee


would love to have your money!








axlekiller and myself are both accepting paypals for this:
his is 
ardizzy @ hotmail
mineis 
[email protected]
thanks in advance for any contribution!


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Don't think we forgot about the A4 long. cars...as you can see


















MAD LOVE for massive Starrett granite!







rool:


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Don't think we forgot about the A4 long. cars...as you can see










So the long mani will be made out of *two* bars of Lava soap?








Oh wait I thinks I can count 4 bars, carefully molded together.


_Modified by Wolk's Wagon at 7:37 PM 1-17-2007_


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

It's a test part, so we can make quick changes to it for fitment, and it's not finished. So once it's done it's replicated in alloy and my wife gets a new flower arrangement.















to axlekiller and slivercar these guys are going beyond the call of duty.


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

unforutnately that green manifold design won't help distribute air any more evenly because of the sharp corners where the TB meets the manifold


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoff Rood* »_unforutnately that green manifold design won't help distribute air any more evenly because of the sharp corners where the TB meets the manifold









Don't you worry that will be rectified http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Don't you worry that will be rectified http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









^^^^ overconfident first-year mechanical engineering student















Just kiddin Donatello.......


----------



## leeG (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_

would love to have your money!








axlekiller and myself are both accepting paypals for this:
his is 
ardizzy @ hotmail
mineis 
[email protected]
thanks in advance for any contribution!









Paypal would'nt accept your e-mail address








Payment sent to [email protected]
Lee


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (leeG)*

Thank you for your contribution. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Thanks to Kiddo, we'll now be testing the ABD manifold as well.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

ABD FTw!!! LOL


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Awesome!
Stu! get ready to compile a nice intake segment in the 1.8T FAQ


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Thanks to Kiddo, we'll now be testing the ABD manifold as well.









If you would test ABD manifold and release the results to the public without ABD sponsoring the whole event, it will be the most stupid thing thing in the history of vwvortex.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_
If you would test ABD manifold and release the results to the public without ABD sponsoring the whole event, it will be the most stupid thing thing in the history of vwvortex.

Care to explain as to why?...


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_
If you would test ABD manifold and release the results to the public without ABD sponsoring the whole event, it will be the most stupid thing thing in the history of vwvortex.

Not only should we do that, we should throw it on dizzys dyno mule and compare it to a stock big port lol


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
Not only should we do that, we should throw it on dizzys dyno mule and compare it to a stock big port lol


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Care to explain as to why?...























I think it is self-explanatory, but any ways: since ABD has not present any proof of power gain on their manifold, they at least could sponsor the test. Of course if ABD has any time left after their television games.


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
Not only should we do that, we should throw it on dizzys dyno mule and compare it to a stock big port lol

This is not fair, even if dizzy will throw a set of cams, it is absolutely obvious that ABD manifold will win. Well, if it works as good as the rest of ABD stuff e.g. ABD CAI and ABD TIP.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_
I think it is self-explanatory, but any ways: since ABD has not present any proof of power gain on their manifold, they at least could sponsor the test. Of course if ABD has any time left after their television games.









you relieve if they sponser the test, it will be like eurotuner, full page ads and winning the challenges with an underequipped car.


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
you relieve if they sponser the test, it will be like eurotuner, full page ads and winning the challenges with an underequipped car.










Yeah, you're right.
But then may be ABD should send money to axlekiller and silvercar for NOT TESTING the ABD manifold. It's still win-win situation for everybody. At least it would still be a top secret - is there a power gain from it or .....well, you know.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*

And Bob Q has graciously agreed to send a Hypertune manifold. This is turning out to be REAL interesting.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

so what manifold hasnt been sent, i think thats all but the dalbach and the now defunked usrt one... sorry scott.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Nope, Dahlback will be here on Monday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The testing will include:
OEM transverse small port
OEM transverse big port
Dahlback
RMR
Hypertune/FullRace
007 small port
007 big port
ABD
USRT and APR (ahem, Wolks, ahem) are all that won't be there unless there's some magic manifold that surfaces between now and then.










_Modified by axlekiller at 8:58 PM 1-18-2007_


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Nope, Dahlback will be here on Monday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The testing will include:
OEM transverse small port
OEM transverse big port
Dahlback
RMR
Hypertune/FullRace
007 small port
007 big port
*ABD*
USRT and APR (ahem, Wolks, ahem) are all that won't be there unless there's some magic manifold that surfaces between now and then.









pretty much covers all options.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Whoops, forgot about them. lol


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

I think GT-ER wants some help.....

_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_will you guys please stop posting in the intake manifold thread??!!


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

Guys, this thread is awsome... it really is... but doesn't anyone here want to talk about compressor maps? I opened a thread on that ya know...


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Nope, Dahlback will be here on Monday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The testing will include:
OEM transverse small port
OEM transverse big port
Dahlback
RMR
Hypertune/FullRace
007 small port
007 big port
ABD
USRT and APR (ahem, Wolks, ahem) are all that won't be there unless there's some magic manifold that surfaces between now and then.









_Modified by axlekiller at 8:58 PM 1-18-2007_


man... what's been going on while i've been gone















cut up heads, manifold tests...


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_Guys, this thread is awsome... it really is... but doesn't anyone here want to talk about compressor maps? I opened a thread on that ya know...
















poor guy......bwahahahahaahhahaah


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_so what manifold hasnt been sent, i think thats all but the dalbach and the now defunked usrt one... sorry scott.









I respect what y'all are doin'. (Salute)


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

If I am not mistaken, Zornig also makes intake manifolds, looking at a pic on his website, nice ones. Any reasons why not trying to contact him?


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

So is flow just going to be tested or flow with a velocity meter?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoff Rood* »_So is flow just going to be tested or flow with a velocity meter?

Just Flow.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_If I am not mistaken, Zornig also makes intake manifolds, looking at a pic on his website, nice ones. Any reasons why not trying to contact him?

i think jim would rather see lower et's than a flow number, to see if it works. i ~may be wrong...


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

bench them already!



_Modified by T-Boy at 9:36 AM 1-19-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

I just wanted to give a huge thanks and express how awesome the two contributions made by Mike P @ http://www.tyrolsport.com and Phill @ http://www.bshftw.com/ are to this testing. It is above and beyond the call of businesses in this industry to offer support in this manner. These two gentlemen do not stand to gain anything by their contributions other than seeing good solid data presented to the community to help bring us products that work like they're supposed to.







to these guys. 

_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_bench them already!

We're eager to get results as well, but all the manifolds have to arrive first. Two more on the way from Canada, Bob will ship out soon, the ABD will be in your hands this weekend Tom. Hopefully, I can drop off most if not all the manifolds next week to silvercar, so in 2-3 weeks we should have finalized results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

And, this just in, Hybrid VW has agreed to send an APR intake manifold. The plot thickens. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

Well, if we got 2-3 weeks, does that give USRT enough time to get one out?







here's to hoping


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Well, if we got 2-3 weeks, does that give USRT enough time to get one out?







here's to hoping









Hmmm. maybe if we all bombard hkk with phone calls


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Hmmm. maybe if we all bombard hkk with phone calls









Scott, what's the number for your favorite guy over at HKK?


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Wow we have all the main players now.
By the way the RMR is the large port


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Wow we have all the main players now.
By the way the RMR is the large port

Awesome Rob. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks again.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Scott, what's the number for your favorite guy over at HKK?

Per Greg Haley's website, that'd be: 603.661.0603. Good luck.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Per Greg Haley's website, that'd be: 603.661.0603. Good luck.
















more popcorn and


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Hmmm. maybe if we all bombard hkk with phone calls









More like all of us show up with shotguns, seems to be the only way they respond.


----------



## Captain Jack (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_I just wanted to give a huge thanks and express how awesome the two contributions made by Mike P @ http://www.tyrolsport.com and Phill @ http://www.bshftw.com/ are to this testing. It is above and beyond the call of businesses in this industry to offer support in this manner. These two gentlemen do not stand to gain anything by their contributions other than seeing good solid data presented to the community to help bring us products that work like they're supposed to.







to these guys. 



The thanks goes out to you, this test will help put an end to a lot of debate. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (Captain Jack)*

As a side note, just looking at the abd manifold I can see that it needs quite a bit of finishing work. The ports do not line up with a stock gasket almost making it mandatory for it to be ported out to AEB specs, and the underside of the injector seats need deburring.
Never the less, I'm sending it to the bench as ABD would send it to there customers...


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Kiddo)*

Why have I ignored this thread








Diz I'll send ya something over the weekend. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_i think jim would rather see lower et's than a flow number, to see if it works. i ~may be wrong...









Cant say I blame him.I just want to see how the Lehman manifold design does compared to the rest.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Per Greg Haley's website, that'd be: 603.661.0603. Good luck.

You dont know of anyone that has a USRT manifold kicking around?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_You dont know of anyone that has a USRT manifold kicking around?

The only version that I'd really want to get data on would be the v3.0 with tapered/fully-radiused velocity stacks . Those sold well for about 1 month until Greg disappeared on us. Customers didn't typically buy these parts and then let them sit around. Believe me, I'd love to flex USRT's muscles in this test, but the cold reality is that the parts haven't been available since we got porked a while back. Grrr... I'll see what I can do about getting a sample unit fabbed up. Cross your fingers.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_Why have I ignored this thread








Diz I'll send ya something over the weekend. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

It only took 12 pages before you clicked, well then again it didnt get interesting until about page 8 or so.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_It only took 12 pages before you clicked, well then again it didnt get interesting until about page 8 or so.

It almost didn't make it past page 1; it was brought back from the dead twice.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (Kiddo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kiddo* »_The ports do not line up with a stock gasket almost making it mandatory for it to be ported out to AEB specs, and the underside of the injector seats need deburring.


aeb head = problem solved








im not really sure as i was kinda n00b when I bought my abd... but it seems to be doing the job...
how well compared to other mani's, i dont know








and yes I did have to remove burs on the seats to get the injectors to seat in properly


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Rac_337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rac_337* »_
aeb head = problem solved








im not really sure as i was kinda n00b when I bought my abd... but it seems to be doing the job...
how well compared to other mani's, i dont know








and yes I did have to remove burs on the seats to get the injectors to seat in properly

nothing like having to fix a product before you install it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_nothing like having to fix a product before you install it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









lol















I wouldn't call it fixing it, more like improving upon.


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
It only took 12 pages before you clicked, well then again it didnt get interesting until about page 8 or so.

Lol well I saw it and was like hmm cool but then it got into flowbenchin like every mani on the market and I'm like








Can't wait to see the new thread.


----------



## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
nothing like having to fix a product before you install it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









true... too bad my mani wasn't really broken to have to fix it to begin with















good thing i dont pay full pop for broken products eh?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Captain Jack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain Jack* »_
The thanks goes out to you, this test will help put an end to a lot of debate. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


No, the thanks goes to all who have contributed, I wouldn't have paid for all this myself. lol


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

watched http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (bwell01)*

next they should be dyno tested, but that would be lots of money... But if someone is down to do it that would be sick


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_next they should be dyno tested, but that would be lots of money... But if someone is down to do it that would be sick

Problem then becomes driver's vs passenger side throttle and big vs small port.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_next they should be dyno tested, but that would be lots of money... But if someone is down to do it that would be sick

what happen to that guy whos dad wanted to start a dyno shop a week or so ago? He should hurry up and make him let us use the shop for a day or so. Now that would be nice.


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_what happen to that guy whos dad wanted to start a dyno shop a week or so ago? He should hurry up and make him let us use the shop for a day or so. Now that would be nice.

What area?


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Problem then becomes driver's vs passenger side throttle and big vs small port. 


dizzy= bp driver side
tank= small port passenger side


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (silvercar)*

So where's that leave Dahlback, driver's side small port? Time to call up Andrew and ask for a day rental?


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

Heh......


----------



## bimmen325 (Feb 16, 2003)

ttt


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (bimmen325)*

I have a mani sitting in the garage waiting on Adam to pick it up for the test......


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







See you Tues/Wed.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

http://dyno4mance.com/tuning/dynamometer/index.php

He hooks me up with a little better rate









http://dyno4mance.com/video/dyno4mance.wmv



_Modified by silvercar at 4:57 PM 1-20-2007_


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_next they should be dyno tested, but that would be lots of money... But if someone is down to do it that would be sick

This is where Bobqzzi would be an asset and his engine dyno if he was willing to do an intake mani shoot-out; provided that he is compensated for his time and expertise. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
This is where Bobqzzi would be an asset and his engine dyno if he was willing to do an intake mani shoot-out; provided that he is compensated for his time and expertise. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

If he were willing, i would certainly contribute. A test like that would really be the icing on the cake!


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*

yes, that would be phenomenal. i'll definitely chip in there too! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
If he were willing, i would certainly contribute. A test like that would really be the icing on the cake!

a test like that would be better than what you guys are doing now. it's controlled, and consistant. i would deff throw in some $$$ for a power comparison. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
a test like that would be better than what you guys are doing now. it's controlled, and consistant. i would deff throw in some $$$ for a power comparison. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

both tests have their own value. sure, you can match an intake to a head on a dyno. but you can do it with a flowbench too. aside from the total flow capability, we get to see how the intake _wants to _distrubute air to the cylinders. I dont think QEDs engine dyno has a wideband on every exhaust port (which IMO is the only way to prove or disprove the distribution numbers from the flowbench.)
Basically, what im saying is that i dont think better is a good word to characterize a dyno test. I do however think that the two tests together would compliment each other. and would give absolutely definitive results


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
both tests have their own value. sure, you can match an intake to a head on a dyno. but you can do it with a flowbench too. aside from the total flow capability, we get to see how the intake _wants to _distrubute air to the cylinders. I dont think QEDs engine dyno has a wideband on every exhaust port (which IMO is the only way to prove or disprove the distribution numbers from the flowbench.)
Basically, what im saying is that i dont think better is a good word to characterize a dyno test. I do however think that the two tests together would compliment each other. and would give absolutely definitive results

Thanks, I didn't feel like typing it.


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Hey Don. What did I say.


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

I have, at least I think it's a V. 3, USRT manifold that I'd be willing to send out. Only problem is time...when could I expect it to be returned? Trying to get my car running in the next week or two. I can send it out on Monday.


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

Small port, by the way.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (sandiegobmx)*

i dont know why you guys want to test the now defunked usrt manifold, since they are now no longer available. Should just what and test the up and coming usrt version that the rest of us will be able to purchase.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

people out there that have it might be interested......
and it's not everyday the vortex members unite to run tests like this.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

well if Bob Q. is down to do the down test and he posts how much he wants i'll be ready to paypal too


----------



## sandiegobmx (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_i dont know why you guys want to test the now defunked usrt manifold, since they are now no longer available. Should just what and test the up and coming usrt version that the rest of us will be able to purchase.

I'm fairly interested to see how it compares. But I spent the money on it...
Either way, I'm willing to send it out so let me know.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_i dont know why you guys want to test the now defunked usrt manifold, since they are now no longer available.

Because of all the hype that surrounded the manifold.I want to see how ALL the manifolds compare to each other.Only then can we weed out the bad ones.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Because of all the hype that surrounded the manifold.I want to see how ALL the manifolds compare to each other.Only then can we weed out the bad ones.

But its no longer in production. THat was my point. But as said earlier it would be nice to know how yours stacks up.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_But as said earlier it would be nice to know how yours stacks up. 

I sent in a Dhalback unit,not a USRT unit but yes it would be interesting to know how it stacks up against the rest.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i never said you were shipping the usrt. The other poster said he had one he was willing to send and it was said earlier that someone wanted to test the usrt one before.


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

plus how long until the new one is released? we're just testing what everybody is able to throw together.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

well by the end of this week, barring any disasters, I will have dyno'd my 007 mani with its R32 t'body on the same dyno as previously ran 485bhp/355lbft (fly)
New injectors now installed, plenty of fueling now.
Previously I ran my largeport dual plenum, sotck t'body for the 485bhp figure. (restrictive I believe given the 007/R32 combo now caused me to run lean over 1.6bar and 5K rpms where previously it was fine to 8200rpm on 2bar boost)
I'll post resilts as a comparison when I have them.


----------



## myk3 (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_well by the end of this week, barring any disasters, I will have dyno'd my 007 mani with its R32 t'body on the same dyno as previously ran 485bhp/355lbft (fly)
New injectors now installed, plenty of fueling now.
Previously I ran my largeport dual plenum, sotck t'body for the 485bhp figure. (restrictive I believe given the 007/R32 combo now caused me to run lean over 1.6bar and 5K rpms where previously it was fine to 8200rpm on 2bar boost)
I'll post resilts as a comparison when I have them.

i look forward to your feed back http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (badger5)*

Sounds good Bill. What FP are you running those 750's at?


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Sounds good Bill. What FP are you running those 750's at?

for now I've dropped it to 3bar but will probably run them at 4bar when mapping.. poor old car is choked on 4bar and I have to drive it 2 hours to dyno on thursday.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Please keep *US* posted http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

bump to first page
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_well by the end of this week, barring any disasters, I will have dyno'd my 007 mani with its R32 t'body on the same dyno as previously ran 485bhp/355lbft (fly)
New injectors now installed, plenty of fueling now.
Previously I ran my largeport dual plenum, sotck t'body for the 485bhp figure. (restrictive I believe given the 007/R32 combo now caused me to run lean over 1.6bar and 5K rpms where previously it was fine to 8200rpm on 2bar boost)
I'll post resilts as a comparison when I have them.

does your dyno facility have the ability to overlay old and new graphs? that would be super







and good luck with the tuning


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
does your dyno facility have the ability to overlay old and new graphs? that would be super







and good luck with the tuning

i think so... will get them to if they can.


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (badger5)*

if there is any way to export just the raw numbers it shouldnt be anything more than an excel or matlab exercise


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_if there is any way to export just the raw numbers it shouldnt be anything more than an excel or matlab exercise
 







that would require effort.


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

excel is easy. and if he knows what matlab is then im sure he knows how to do it. I like to stay away from matlab if i can


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (LO-vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LO-vw* »_ I like to stay away from matlab if i can










*AMEN*


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

boo matlab is so much easier if you learn it properly. [/ee student brainwashing]


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_boo matlab is so much easier if you learn it properly. [/ee student brainwashing]

Matlab & C++ were 2 of the biggest bull**** courses ever offered in Engineering.Give me fluid's anyday!


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

not if your control systems! well... sans C++ matlab ftw!


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Matlab & C++ were 2 of the biggest bull**** courses ever offered in Engineering.Give me fluid's anyday!

Or thermo or heat transfer. I HATE MATLAB. lol


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

ha im ME and i hate matlab


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (LO-vw)*

well, as i said, its awesome for control systems and doing stuff like graphing a bunch of data. 

manifolds are cool though.


----------



## nebulight (May 17, 2002)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*

Can't leave this one out! I don't mean to laugh because the guy who made this was local to me and does do good work, but he made this for someone else:


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (nebulight)*

Doesn't that go in a truck bed?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (nebulight)*

Diamond(plate)s are forever, unless you are piston #1.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (theAntiRiced)*

sadly the a/f in the first cylinder is 48:1 and in cylinder four is .00034:1


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (cincyTT)*

hhmmmmmmm. reasearch...
and de sign........ 
Hey it has nice welds!!!1


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Kiddo)*


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Kiddo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kiddo* »_Hey it has nice welds!!!1









Sadly, that's the only good thing about it.


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (theAntiRiced)*

hah! watch it outflow all of them.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_hah! watch it outflow all of them.
















not even close with that TB position!


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_not even close with that TB position!

dude, it's in it... and it's in it to WIN.


----------



## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (inivid)*

Put that thing on a bench and piston 1 will outflow the combination of all 4 in a normal setup.. lol..









_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_
dude, it's in it... and it's in it to WIN.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (sys3175)*

Uh yeah... im gonna need you to um, uh, not send that mani. mmmkay. Grrreat


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Uh yeah... im gonna need you to um, uh, not send that mani. mmmkay. Grrreat









i'm sure there's some sort long-winded, unpronounceable principle that supports the position of that TB. either that or mr. daniels and mr. morgan had a hand in it.
...my money is on the latter.










_Modified by inivid at 1:09 PM 1-23-2007_


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

i wonder if that is the same guy who ported and polished his head with sand?


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (inivid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid* »_








i'm sure there's some sort long-winded, unpronounceable principle that supports the position of that TB. 

helmholtz? .. although in that case.. i dont even know. maybe the harmonics force air over to the side really well... yeah, thats it.
every time you build that mani.. god kills a kitten...


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Tetzuoe)*

How soon is the testing. I built one of the AEB D-Channel units this summer and it produces at least 35 more HP. I would ship it somewhere to be stacked up against the super flow tested engineered units. Just to see if it's even close.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_How soon is the testing. I built one of the AEB D-Channel units this summer and it produces at least 35 more HP.

That's a big claim, but you're from Florida, so we might let it slide...


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
That's a big claim, but you're from Florida, so we might let it slide...
















Thanks but it's true.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
That's a big claim, but you're from Florida, so we might let it slide...

















im so moving to florida.... I could take off my turbo and still get 200whp.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_

im so moving to florida.... I could take off my turbo and still get 200whp.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_How soon is the testing. I built one of the AEB D-Channel units this summer and it produces at least 35 more HP. I would ship it somewhere to be stacked up against the super flow tested engineered units. Just to see if it's even close. 

I'm going to







my butt off if it's the best!! My question is what part of the powerband is that 35hp found and did you gain any torque?


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_

im so moving to florida.... I could take off my turbo and still get 200whp.









You Ohio boys are just tired of loosing everything even though you're told continuously you'll win. The 35 Horsepower is documented and it was throughout the powerband. It must be said that the previous manifold was a small port stock unit ported as best as possible to match the AEB head. It was less than ideal.
Anyway, since you all are so interested in finding out about all of them. I will pay for shipping for 4 units to and from their respective homes since most of you Texters are always so broke.
You pick'm and i will get'm shipped.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
You Ohio boys are just tired of loosing everything even though you're told continuously you'll win. 

im a loser, ill admit that.







I have no doubt that a big port manifold with a larger plenuim would make anything less than 20+hp on a decent size turbo. If i had the skills yo have i would do it to.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
I'm going to







my butt off if it's the best!! My question is what part of the powerband is that 35hp found and did you gain any torque?

My torque numbers did increase up from 297 to 326 Ft Lbs. again acroos the boarc there was improvement


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_My torque numbers did increase up from 297 to 326 Ft Lbs. again acroos the board there was improvement

Looks good! Want to build me one? Big port, pass side VR TB?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_You Ohio boys are just tired of loosing everything even though you're told continuously you'll win. The 35 Horsepower is documented and it was throughout the powerband. It must be said that the previous manifold was a small port stock unit ported as best as possible to match the AEB head. It was less than ideal.
Anyway, since you all are so interested in finding out about all of them. I will pay for shipping for 4 units to and from their respective homes since most of you Texters are always so broke.
You pick'm and i will get'm shipped.









I read your thread, still don't see how you attribute 35hp to the manifold, but I'm sure it did some good.
Check with them and ship it out, I'd also like to see how it stacks up.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_

Check with them and ship it out, I'd also like to see how it stacks up.

I have the feeling it will be just above the abd intake due to it being a big port compared to a small port. Plus i bet the D shape is better than a more squared shape.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
I read your thread, still don't see how you attribute 35hp to the manifold, but I'm sure it did some good.
Check with them and ship it out, I'd also like to see how it stacks up.

This:

_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_The changes between 303 and 365
1) Jay Thornton Exhaust Manifold
2) AEB Runner D-Channel Intake Manifold
3) Replace Turbo Center Section because of "Slight Damage to Fins" and I mean slight
4) From my initial base line pull with the new Mani's was 333
5) Then we played with the gain and boost setting because we were only getting 16lbs with some flux, but nowhere near as bad with the old manifolds.
6) Adjusted to 22 PSI, but that was all the consistent boost we could attain, We are going to raise the Spring pressure in the wastegate so the controller does not have to work so hard. Current: 9 lb Spring Future: 14.7 Lb
7) After a 362 Pull we "unretarded" 1° of timing from the entire timing curve at 4 lbs to 20 lbs, which means we are running 24° - 25° of timing at 22 lbs.
8) 365 FWhp
9) We ran out of time on the dyno.
10) ...next up the boost to 25 lbs, re-build intake plumbing to delete transistions and maybe even add a flow straightner after the intercooler. Cat Cams!


This is what you speak of. Well I guess it is just seat of the pants, but I can tell you that the car did not wake up until the Intake was installed. The Exhaust manifold I am certain was a big help, but the motor came ALIVE when the New AEB/Hybrid was installed. I think that's why i would like to see it stacked up against other units, cause other than accelerating through the gears and feeling the difference I have no "Facts" but you would admit the a 60+ HP gain from the things above, some of it must go to the Intake.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (cincyTT)*

If you guys want I will run the basic info through the helmholtz formula and calculate out the basic geometry that would be needed.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
Looks good! Want to build me one? Big port, pass side VR TB?

Man, hate to say it but without the car there it would be difficult. My rabbit has almost no accessories so fitment was pretty easy. Hell, you might want to wait until a comparison can performed.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_If you guys want I will run the basic info through the helmholtz formula and calculate out the basic geometry that would be needed.

If you are refering to my manifold what will you need as far as measurements


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VariantStg3)*

You gained 30hp with a change in exhaust & intake mani, and a replacement of part of the turbo.
Then you gained 62 hp with the above changes, plus an increase in boost, and adjustment in timing? Then you did charge pipe changes and cams?
How can you attribute any specific number to any specific change? You violated every rule of the scientific method. I'm curious enough to say it did some good (which is the statement I will continue to stand by), but I can't agree with your firm HP figure, weather it be 5 or 35.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_You gained 30hp with a change in exhaust & intake mani, and a replacement of part of the turbo.
Then you gained 62 hp with the above changes, plus an increase in boost, and adjustment in timing? Then you did charge pipe changes and cams?
How can you attribute any specific number to any specific change? You violated every rule of the scientific method. I'm curious enough to say it did some good (which is the statement I will continue to stand by), but I can't agree with your firm HP figure, weather it be 5 or 35.

That's a fair statement but I will tell you there was no increase in boost only a increase in consistency. We had run every run at 22 but found the fluttering based on the new flow I believe. No matter though I retrack ALL statements about GAINS for you. From here out I will say simply I made a hell of allot more power with both manifolds. Also, point 10 is not complete as of yet so is still not part of the equation.
I think in the end the motor simply breaths better with the larger plenum and I was able to develop a significant difference in power, science rules broken.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_Man, hate to say it but without the car there it would be difficult. My rabbit has almost no accessories so fitment was pretty easy. Hell, you might want to wait until a comparison can performed.

Yeah I'm waiting until after this showdown to buy a manifold. I don't have anything in the way either just wondering... Thanks


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (skydaman)*

You can read up on more of Variant's setup and info on elite and I wouldn't doubt his #'s http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Whatever the outcome is with these manifolds it should not be considered defenitive based on its flowbench results.
Again, I want to stress that an intake manifold undergoes dynamic pressure, transient flow, temps and is part of a 'larger system'.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (Don R)*

Participants are starting to arrive.







I'll be picking up ABD on the way to silvercar's tonight and these four will be dropped off in the morning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (axlekiller)*

can you drop the fullrace one off at my house


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (O2VW1.8T)*

um yeah, your going to have to take it up with ups, the lost it not me.
HEY CHECK OUT MY NEW INTAKE MANIFOLDS IN THE CLASSIFIEDS.


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_can you drop the fullrace one off at my house
















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

is VariantStg3 sending in his or what?


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

Need address?
PM me or post it again?


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Participants are starting to arrive.







I'll be picking up ABD on the way to silvercar's tonight and these four will be dropped off in the morning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


















how about some 'into the plenum' shots?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_

how about some 'into the plenum' shots?


----------



## SnowGTI2003 (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (axlekiller)*

Injector placement is interestingly different between them.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Intake Manifold and Design (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_


















im glad i have a laptop i cant image holding a monitor upside down or standing on my head.


----------



## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

who sent in the full race?
i didn't know it was being tested?


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (spoolin turbo s)*

bob q did


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (spoolin turbo s)*

LET*THE*GAMES*BEGIN*!!!!!


----------



## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_bob q did

killer i'm excited to see how it compares
i think i may let honda-tech know this is going on


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

ABD mani was just picked up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

Wow...that full race manifold Bob sells is outstandingly BEAUTIFUL!! I'm drooling over here.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_Wow...that full race manifold Bob sells is outstandingly BEAUTIFUL!! I'm drooling over here.









something tells me they aren't flying off the shelf at $800+ 



_Modified by mirror at 5:05 PM 1-25-2007_


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_something tells me they aren't flying off the shelf at $800+ 
dsm guys are really disspointed in their intakes. craftsmanship isn't there like the tubey manis. 

$800? Try $1400


----------



## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: (GT-ER)*

LOL...makes the apr one look like a steal.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (bongoRA3)*

i just saw the full race mani in person.....and it looks real good, but the plenum seems the same as stock volume wise, and the t-body inlet was only 2.5in
but overall it was really nice looking.....


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_
$800? Try $1400























better come with wet lips too.


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_Wow...that full race manifold Bob sells is outstandingly BEAUTIFUL!!









Agree, it definitely wins a beauty contest


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_














better come with wet lips too. 

And a bottle of don perignon


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (20V1.8Tnut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V1.8Tnut* »_
Agree, it definitely wins a beauty contest









to bad thats not what is being tested. Im still not sure about the offset plenium. But it sure is shiny.


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_to bad thats not what is being tested. Im still not sure about the offset plenium. But it sure is shiny.









Awwww man..


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
something tells me they aren't flying off the shelf at $800+ 
dsm guys are really disspointed in their intakes. craftsmanship isn't there like the tubey manis. 

same with the honda guys


_Quote, originally posted by *Full-Race Henry* »_
Hello 85mmek9,
I am sorry to hear that you have a problem with us and that you are unsatisfied with our product. Let me know if there is anything that we can do to remedy this situation.
Anyhow, the Intake Manifold might not look PRETTY but it does outperform most of the other intake manifolds on the market. I personally prefer FUNCTION over FASHION.
By the way, what other Intake Manifold are you going with that will probably out flow our Intake Manifold??
Thanks
henry
http://www.full-race.com



_Modified by O2VW1.8T at 9:23 PM 1-24-2007_


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
This is where Bobqzzi would be an asset and his engine dyno if he was willing to do an intake mani shoot-out; provided that he is compensated for his time and expertise. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Don, did you talk to Bob about possibility of the above?


----------



## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (mirror)*

honda-tech calling for geoff raicer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_right. the dsm guys were told the same thing. people have recieved their manis, and sent them back asap, because they look like crap. yes, performance is expected from full-race, but you don't want something that looks like a bird pooped it out. especially for $1400. 

Either way... the one bob is selling looks like SEX!


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_














better come with wet lips too. 

Two pair










_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_same with the honda guys

Not really, my buddy has a 900+hp Civic and is plenty satisfied with his. It's not about looks...


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_Not really, my buddy has a 900+hp Civic and is plenty satisfied with his. It's not about looks...

Hence the Civic??


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_Hence the Civic??

lolll


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Hence the Civic??








But I wish a 1.8T would put this down:


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_

Not really, my buddy has a 900+hp Civic and is plenty satisfied with his. It's not about looks...

i know some like and dont mind the looks some dont cause when you pay insane money you expect a nice looking part... I have nothing again't full-race at all http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_is VariantStg3 sending in his or what?

If you would like to test it please send me an address to ship it to and it will be there Friday via Fedex.


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_







But I wish a 1.8T would put this down:

I think it can be done. Sure it would cost twice as much, but still can be done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_I think it can be done. Sure it would cost twice as much, but still can be done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Well we are still waiting on someone to do it and the 1.8T has been out for awhile now...


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_







But I wish a 1.8T would put this down:

Hmmm... 200whp at 5,000rpm sounds familiar...








I bet that thing sounds like the voice of Satan himself at 9K.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_I bet that thing sounds like the voice of Satan himself at 9K.

It's got a full 4" exhaust but yes it's still loud with twin 44mm Tial WG's.


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
Well we are still waiting on someone to do it and the 1.8T has been out for awhile now...

You spot me a fully ported, solid cam and lifter head and I'll do my best








even without that head, lag was able to make 581 to the wheels with just a set of cams, stroker and a 35r. So he may be the first, depending on if he ever goes with a big solid cammed head


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_If you would like to test it please send me an address to ship it to and it will be there Friday via Fedex.

I'd love to, but I am not the one testing it...IM axlekiller or silvercar...they should do it...I'd be very interested to see the results of a home brew http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_You spot me a fully ported, solid cam and lifter head and I'll do my best








even without that head, lag was able to make 581 to the wheels with just a set of cams, stroker and a 35r. So he may be the first, depending on if he ever goes with a big solid cammed head

I don't think he is going solid lifter...he's selling his cams if you look in the classifieds...


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (skydaman)*

skydaman, tell him i'll give him 100 bucks to give me a ride 0-150mph a few times lol... I need to feel something fast cause the fastest car i've been in is mine and a gixxer 1k


_Modified by O2VW1.8T at 11:24 PM 1-24-2007_


----------



## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (skydaman)*

But I wish a 1.8T would put this down:>>>
- We made more torque








(never thought i would be saying that)


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_skydaman, tell him i'll give him 100 bucks to give me a ride 0-150mph a few times lol... I need to feel something fast cause the fastest car i've been in is mine and a gixxer 1k

He goes faster than that in the quarter








I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you paid for gas + the $100


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_He goes faster than that in the quarter








I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you paid for gas + the $100

Gas alone is probably $100...lol.
BTW- I think we are off topic...


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
He goes faster than that in the quarter








I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you paid for gas + the $100

bwhaha when i get my car done, i'll give me a AWD donut ride and i get a ride in his car lol...


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

how is the TB connected to the intake on the full race unit?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_But I wish a 1.8T would put this down:>>>
- We made more torque








(never thought i would be saying that)

That's awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Kiddo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kiddo* »_how is the TB connected to the intake on the full race unit?

When you decide on what throttle you want, then Bob welds on the appropriate throttle plate. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to BobQ/bobqzzi http://www.qedpower.com/ for sending that beauty as well as Kelly/HybridVW for sending the huge APR boss. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
I'd be very interested to see the results of a home brew http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Val, and everyone else, if you want to see the homebrew tested, we're going to need more money. Scott is scrambling to get a USRT model made for testing. I'm already spending what I had planned originally and there's not enough to cover the last two. Wrench out the paypal's if you want them tested and PM for shipping info.


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

I want to see the home-brew AEB in this thing... i'll send some cash tomorrow afternoon if it makes it in


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

I'll be in to send more as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

Yeah, I am willing to pay to play. Don't let money get in the way of science.
reply to PM with paypal and mainling address and it will be on its way. The car is down waiting for the ECU upgrade from Microtech so there will be no racing for at least 2 probably 3 more weeks.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
I think it can be done. Sure it would cost twice as much, but still can be done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i think you'll be seeing some powerful cars this season. whether they're quick or not...eh.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Val, and everyone else, if you want to see the homebrew tested, we're going to need more money. Scott is scrambling to get a USRT model made for testing. I'm already spending what I had planned originally and there's not enough to cover the last two. Wrench out the paypal's if you want them tested and PM for shipping info.









I told you I'd give you money, you never got back to me...I'll paypal some dough to see this hobrew for sure...didn't mike tyrol give 150bux? you guys shouldn't be short by any means...people have contributed...you can PM me about that if there is an issue http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

No, Mike P offered $150. It's not fair for him to be paying for such a large portion of the testing when everyone out there is so interested in the results, so I told him to send $60 to cover one manifold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Why not just post up how many manis you're tesing at $xx plus the cost of shipping, gas money running around (AL to dalton aint no punk drive), ect ect. seems people have doubts about $$$


_Modified by T-Boy at 10:15 AM 1-25-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_Why not just post up how many manis you're tesing at $xx plus the cost of shipping, gas money running around (AL to dalton aint no punk drive), ect ect. seems people have doubts about $$$


It's pretty simple. If USRT and the FL Homebrew are to be tested, that's 11 manifolds @ $60/each. I planned on paying for two. f you guys think you've sent me $540 yet, you're way off.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_Why not just post up how many manis you're tesing at $xx plus the cost of shipping, gas money running around, ect ect. seems people have doubts about $$$

I will send in a $100.00 on the ole paypal. I am happy to do it. Hell even with that $100.00 my mani still cost far less than half of them so I guess if I get half the flow I should be happy, lol








I will ship tomorrow morning for a Monday delivery or are you doing testing over the weekend, if so I can have it shipped today for tomorrow delivery?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
I will send in a $100.00 on the ole paypal. I am happy to do it. Hell even with that $100.00 my mani still cost far less than half of them so I guess if I get half the flow I should be happy, lol








I will ship tomorrow morning for a Monday delivery or are you doing testing over the weekend, if so I can have it shipped today for tomorrow delivery?

PM replied.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_I will send in a $100.00 on the ole paypal. I am happy to do it. Hell even with that $100.00 my mani still cost far less than half of them so I guess if I get half the flow I should be happy, lol









If you give a manifold for this test you shouldn't be required to donate a significant amount of money. I'm going to chip more in.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Top right-hand corner in this pic...you can see a 4" Tube mated to AEB runners...It's doing great on a Golf mk4 with a TT225 setup.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_No, Mike P offered $150. It's not fair for him to be paying for such a large portion of the testing when everyone out there is so interested in the results, so I told him to send $60 to cover one manifold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

mike p aslo recieves tons of business from this community as well. whether you felt it was fair or not, as he stated to me, 

"the community made us what we are today, so this is a way of giving back. i just wish all advertisers felt this way". 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
If you give a manifold for this test you shouldn't be required to donate a significant amount of money. I'm going to chip more in.

Apperciate it, I think the testers are taking the brunt of work so i don't mind buying a lunch or two as well. My hope is we get a bunch of great data and everyone interested in this will have a excellent resource for making manifold choices going forward.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Top right-hand corner in this pic...you can see a 4" Tube mated to AEB runners...It's doing great on a Golf mk4 with a TT225 setup.









Don,
I know that's an old photo but I am betting your desk looks similarly cluttered right now, lol...


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

PayPal sent...every lil bit helps I suppose


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*

Thanks Sav, Val/18BT, and especially Scott @ USRT, another forum/community supporter on board, for your donations. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Edit: MagicBacon/Hetzen, Dan/GTER, and anyone else who's given too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

<<even without that head, lag was able to make 581 to the wheels with just a set of cams, stroker and a 35r. So he may be the first, depending on if he ever goes with a big solid cammed head>>
<<I don't think he is going solid lifter...he's selling his cams if you look in the classifieds...>>
- Why do think he is selling the cams?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_<<even without that head, lag was able to make 581 to the wheels with just a set of cams, stroker and a 35r. So he may be the first, depending on if he ever goes with a big solid cammed head>>
<<I don't think he is going solid lifter...he's selling his cams if you look in the classifieds...>>
- Why do think he is selling the cams?









How much more aggressive of a cam is he going to use?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3038912


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

A much more aggressive one with higher lift, the whole point of solid lifters.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_<<even without that head, lag was able to make 581 to the wheels with just a set of cams, stroker and a 35r. So he may be the first, depending on if he ever goes with a big solid cammed head>>
<<I don't think he is going solid lifter...he's selling his cams if you look in the classifieds...>>
- Why do think he is selling the cams?









i'm convinced lag's car has made kevin like mk4's. he is a believer...


----------



## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (mirror)*

btwn me, pat, joel and lag kevins gonna love 1.8ts and mk4's


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (EdsGTI)*

007mani dyno'd today. R32 t'body.
Before








After








same boost (ignore the text on the plots, old data left there from previous runs)
Needed 750cc Genesis injectors to juice it.. previous 620's did'nt cut it



_Modified by badger5 at 10:03 PM 1-25-2007_


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (badger5)*

Nice! Bill congrats on your results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PolskiHetzen (Apr 25, 2006)

*Re: (Don R)*

whoa 30whp


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*

badger, i don't get it. 2 diff boost settings betweent the 2, and over 10*c in temp drop.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (PolskiHetzen)*

damn 30whp and torque, nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_badger, i don't get it. 2 diff boost settings betweent the 2, and over 10*c in temp drop.









nothing screwy... different days innit.. bloody cold here today.. freezing my nutts off at the shop all day - lol
ignore the txt regardin boost as the previous data was from an old plot txt wise... same 2.2bar used then and now. (I did post ignore the text below the plots)


----------



## 20V1.8Tnut (Dec 31, 2000)

36 bhp - well worth the upgrade. 
8155rpm - is that on solid lifters?


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_
nothing screwy... different days innit.. bloody cold here today.. freezing my nutts off at the shop all day - lol
ignore the txt regardin boost as the previous data was from an old plot txt wise... same 2.2bar used then and now. (I did post ignore the text below the plots)

then thats deff some kick ass power you picked up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

As a reminder, Bill's comparison was of his Large port Jabba Motorsport Dual Plenum vs Large Port 007







Thanks again Bill time for the cams!
Jabba Dual Plenum








vs










_Modified by Don R at 8:35 PM 1-25-2007_


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
i think you'll be seeing some powerful cars this season. whether they're quick or not...eh.
















I'd rather be quick than put down monster #'s and have nice traps









_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_<<even without that head, lag was able to make 581 to the wheels with just a set of cams, stroker and a 35r. So he may be the first, depending on if he ever goes with a big solid cammed head>>
<<I don't think he is going solid lifter...he's selling his cams if you look in the classifieds...>>
- Why do think he is selling the cams?









Now that's what I want to hear. I know he is a Midwestern guy, but I don't know him at all. I wish I did, so I could learn a thing or 2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Lag (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
I'd rather be quick than put down monster #'s and have nice traps








Now that's what I want to hear. I know he is a Midwestern guy, but I don't know him at all. I wish I did, so I could learn a thing or 2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

well I do like long walks on the beach!!















sooo umm anyone want to buy my cams?








I do agree that sick time are cool but I do also believe that there is a lot of un charted areas w/ 1.8ts and things need to be tested so that sick time can happen... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (Lag)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lag* »_well I do like long walks on the beach!!

















Only if we can hold hands







Oh man, did I just say that


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Lag)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lag* »_

I do agree that sick time are cool but I do also believe that there is a lot of un charted areas w/ 1.8ts and things need to be tested so that sick time can happen... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## myk3 (Jan 10, 2006)

top man bill!! we love that power! any more plans


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_I'd rather be quick than put down monster #'s and have nice traps









Exactly... of course real tracks have turns.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (myk3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *myk3* »_top man bill!! we love that power! any more plans









other than fitting my cams which I have for months now & replumbing my water/meth injection back in, nope..
its a race car for circuit racing regulated to running normal road tyres, so my power levels now are beyond available traction on high boost, but the mods I've done will allow me to turn down the wick on the turbo's work effort, to balance available grip.
Now when I want to run full on slicks, I will have more headroom for turning it all back up again for the higher grip level.
As DonR said and posted, the comparison is with my previous dual plenum manifold, which was also largeport, internal airhorns, but running std t'body and slot size to suit. the airflow's on my new setup just "felt" to me like 59mm throttle and slot size in my dual, was too small for the airflow. fitting 007mani with its R32 t'body confirmed that immedtiaely as I ran out of duty cycle on my injectors, so larger ones, combined with adjusting fueling to suit (and some more ign advance was possible than before) it gave me gains over the top of that. I never dyno'd just the duel plenum (Pro-Alloy one to JS/my spec) as it was fitted back in Oct 2005 originally along with the 1900cc motor and larger Pe1820 turbo I then ran. dual plenum had a 2nd revision as my original (the 1st) split, being too thin a gauge and without sufficient bracing. V2 was dished ends and braced and from thicker ally and was fine ever since.
For me the 007/R32 mani works a treat. Thanks to Jimmy & DonR for organising it.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Eliseman (Feb 14, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*

Jeez that's some monster power Bill, and it just keeps on coming !! Your going to be smoking some tyres !!
Now what would that go like in an Elise







!
All the best
Bernard


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (Eliseman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Eliseman* »_Jeez that's some monster power Bill, and it just keeps on coming !! Your going to be smoking some tyres !!
Now what would that go like in an Elise







!
All the best
Bernard

It would be so much more fun in an elise... whiplash might be an issue - lol


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (badger5)*

Badger

This is some brutal flow!
Impressive that peak power is at 8000rpm+








What kind of head work,cams etc do you have ?
What octane do you run? (euro standard)
Is this a 1,9L with 8.5:1 pistons with solid lifter head ?

This engine propably produce about 160hp even before the forced induction http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (foffa2002)*

PayPal sent http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Manifold will go out today.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (foffa2002)*


_Quote, originally posted by *foffa2002* »_Badger

This is some brutal flow!
Impressive that peak power is at 8000rpm+








What kind of head work,cams etc do you have ?
What octane do you run? (euro standard)
Is this a 1,9L with 8.5:1 pistons with solid lifter head ?

This engine propably produce about 160hp even before the forced induction http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









I'm still on hydro top end but proper valves and springs... but do worry a little about the high revs on stock followers. time will tell.
Std cams so far, but I have a pair of special grind catcams to install next and retest & dyno to see their merits and downsides.
Its 83mm bore JE's on lightly ported ADR head (largeport as std)
fuel is shell V-power here, which I believe to be 99octane (euro fuel) - regular pump gas, no additives (yet - lol)


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_fuel is shell V-power here, which I believe to be 99octane (euro fuel) - regular pump gas, no additives (yet - lol)

In case anyone didn't know, 99 octane RON is roughly 93 octane (RON + MON)/2.
Euro fuels use the RON method to determine a petrol's octane, while the US uses an average of the RON and MON methods.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
In case anyone didn't know, 99 octane RON is roughly 93 octane (RON + MON)/2.
Euro fuels use the RON method to determine a petrol's octane, while the US uses an average of the RON and MON methods.

thanks for that... I could'nt remember the conversion.
What fuels do you guys have the option of running. Is 93 octane in US a good one?
We have 95RON as your basic unleaded fuel.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_
thanks for that... I could'nt remember the conversion.
What fuels do you guys have the option of running. Is 93 octane in US a good one?
We have 95RON as your basic unleaded fuel.


Hey Bill ...why don't you use the new BP Ultimate 102RON octane?
You ll get better timing on that ,than the v-power racing!

get your sig updated!!!









_Modified by LoxiaS at 7:49 AM 1-26-2007_


_Modified by LoxiaS at 7:49 AM 1-26-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_
thanks for that... I could'nt remember the conversion.
What fuels do you guys have the option of running. Is 93 octane in US a good one?
We have 95RON as your basic unleaded fuel.


RON MON PON 
90 83 86.6 
92 85 88.5 
95 87 91 
96 88 92 
98 90 94 
100 91.5 95.8 
105 95 100 
110 99 104.5


----------



## Eliseman (Feb 14, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Sorry but I seem to have missed a lot of the discussion on this, what is the 007 manifold ? I guess it's design number 7 in a series but I've searched and can't find any pics. I wan't one








Bernard


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Eliseman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Eliseman* »_Sorry but I seem to have missed a lot of the discussion on this, what is the 007 manifold ? I guess it's design number 7 in a series but I've searched and can't find any pics. I wan't one








Bernard

No sir...it was my clever creativity that assigned the intake manifold 007. More info to be found in my sig


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (LoxiaS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoxiaS* »_
Hey Bill ...why don't you use the new BP Ultimate 102RON octane?
You ll get better timing on that ,than the v-power racing!

get your sig updated!!!









_Modified by LoxiaS at 7:49 AM 1-26-2007_

_Modified by LoxiaS at 7:49 AM 1-26-2007_

BP102 is rare as.. only sold in 6 stations nationwide, nearest to me being milton keynes which is 80 miles away.
megga expensive


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
No sir...it was my clever creativity that assigned the intake manifold 007. More info to be found in my sig
















Licence to kill?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_
Licence to kill?








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## V.A.G. (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: (badger5)*

How about this one?


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (badger5)*

Bill, great results, and on pump gas








We use a mix of VP109, on high boost. seen a 8-10hp incress http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And no all the designe work was done and tested, before being release for sale, so no other version.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (V.A.G.)*

its dual plenum and slotted joiner... same as I used to run, except I cant see internal radius airhorns.
previous mani here>
























007mani and R32 t'body gained 30bhp over this one on stock t'body


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Lag)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lag* »_I do also believe that there is a lot of un charted areas w/ 1.8ts

Hell ye
2007 is going to be pumping


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (hkk735)*

*YES*


----------



## TheBox (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Greg it would also be nice to get my manifold back from repair, lets see it has been about 5 months since I have sent you my manifold, It would be nice to continue my project. I am begging u to finish the mani and send it to me!!


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (TheBox)*

wait wait wait.... let the comparison continue first. after the data is compiled and us normal folk have real world numbers to help us pick a good aftermarket mani you have my blessings to begin the witch hunt http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..... 
dont get the thread holed cuz this is shaping up to be very informative to those of us that dont know much about the technical side of going fast and making power.


----------



## TheBox (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (bwell01)*

i spent 600 dollors on a manifold i want it back NOW!!!!!!!!


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

I can't believe HKK posted here...


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_I can't believe HKK posted here...

x2


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_I can't believe HKK posted here...

I would like to state that I ordered a USRT intake manifold middle of last year and never received it due to HKK (Greg) leaving USRT and Scott (USRT)out to dry. Scott was very upfront with me and provided details during the two months I waited for the intake manifold. Scott even gave me discounts on other products I ordered from him during my engine build due to waiting for a product for so long. I even tried to call Greg multiple times during the two month wait and received no answer.
After waiting for so long without receiving a product, Scott offered me a full refund out of his pocket because it was the right thing to do as a gentleman and a businessman. Obviously Greg at HKK is neither a good businessman or a gentleman. Greg still has quite a bit of Scott's money and if it takes legal action to get it back so be it.
Scott and USRT have a great reputation for customer service, support, and great prices. Many people I talk to and quite a few locals praise Scott for his assistance in getting parts as well as installation tips. I recommend USRT to everyone that asks and wear my USRT shirt with pride. Many companies could learn a great deal from them.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (skydaman)*

We now interrupt "all my dubs" to bring late breaking news.








Hypertune BP, APR BP, 007 BP, and the ABD SP are all at CPC awaiting testing. Dan said he should be able to do them monday, so by the first/middle of the week, i will have more info to myself


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*

Did you get my IM?


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Kiddo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kiddo* »_Did you get my IM?

No. try sending it again, because i did get a few today. But I havent been on in a while. so it could be so old it deleted itself already lol


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_We now interrupt "all my dubs" to bring late breaking news.








Hypertune BP, APR BP, 007 BP, and the ABD SP are all at CPC awaiting testing. Dan said he should be able to do them monday, so by the first/middle of the week, i will have more info to myself









remind me... the 007mani big port is R32 sized t'body?


----------



## chiefscotland (Oct 22, 2004)

HKK is a terrible fabrictor, Scott is lucky he no longer has to deal with him. Just a shame about the money situation.
I had a close look at my friends manifold and it was horrible. The BP flange wasn't even close to lining up with the gasket, it was around 3/8" out at worst. The bolt holes didn't line up either. One of the 'velocity stacks' looked as if it had been dropped. Not to mention it looked like the thing was made just of welds rather than alloy, slightly OTT.


----------



## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

IM sent to Silvercar, regarding paypal donation.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_
remind me... the 007mani big port is R32 sized t'body?

Jimmy at Monster Turbo makes them to your spec, several of us went with R32 throttle bolt patterns by choice. You can have whatever throttle plate you want put on though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Jimmy at Monster Turbo makes them to your spec, several of us went with R32 throttle bolt patterns by choice. You can have whatever throttle plate you want put on though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
, erm I 
lol, erm ~I know.. I have one remember? pix above of it and its dyno.
what i meant was, which version has been submitted for testing on the flowbench?
cheers
bill


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*

I was wondering why you were asking. lol Yes, the big port being flowed is R32 throttle, my personal mani.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (chiefscotland)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chiefscotland* »_HKK is a terrible fabrictor, Scott is lucky he no longer has to deal with him. Just a shame about the money situation.

I know exactly which defective manifold you're referring to and it certainly was "off". But, let's be *fair*. Generally speaking, Greg is a very capable fabricator. He's done some exquisite work with stainless steel, for instance -amazing stuff. Aluminum was a new endeavor for him, however, and there were a few quality control issues early on. As the months progressed, quality improved tremendously. USRT suffered some lumps (on his behalf) for it, but by and large we took care of people.
The big problem was the sudden disappearing act late last summer. Yes, he lost his shop and suffered other life set backs. So, out of respect, we waited patiently and waited some more. Months went on and on while we refunded out of pocket. What's unforgivable is that he took time to go racing even while claiming he had no time to finish orders or even to discuss matters. Further, he funded his race season with USRT's cash -winning his 2006 class championship, apparently. (See the info in his sig.) Yet, he has refused to discuss returning the few thousands of dollars. USRT is still waiting for that money and a few customers are *still* faithfully holding out for parts and repairs. -strange behavior, indeed, from a man who was previously a valuable asset to this community.
Call it karma ("carma", maybe?), but we all get ours in the end.


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_I was wondering why you were asking. lol Yes, the big port being flowed is R32 throttle, my personal mani. 

is there going to be a regular throttlebody largeport 007 manifold used?

also, how much will the size of the throttlebody factor in to the test results?
It may be possible for me to supply and pay for the testing of a stock throttlebody 007 manifold w/ largeport runners.
might be interesting to compare to your R32 throttlebody results depending on the flow testing methods.


----------



## chiefscotland (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I know exactly which defective manifold you're referring to and it certainly was "off". But, let's be *fair*. Generally speaking, Greg is a very capable fabricator. He's done some exquisite work with stainless steel, for instance -amazing stuff. Aluminum was a new endeavor for him, however, and there were a few quality control issues early on. As the months progressed, quality improved tremendously. USRT suffered some lumps (on his behalf) for it, but by and large we took care of people.
The big problem was the sudden disappearing act late last summer. Yes, he lost his shop and suffered other life set backs. So, out of respect, we waited patiently and waited some more. Months went on and on while we refunded out of pocket. What's unforgivable is that he took time to go racing even while claiming he had no time to finish orders or even to discuss matters. Further, he funded his race season with USRT's cash -winning his 2006 class championship, apparently. (See the info in his sig.) Yet, he has refused to discuss returning the few thousands of dollars. USRT is still waiting for that money and a few customers are *still* faithfully holding out for parts and repairs. -strange behavior, indeed, from a man who was previously a valuable asset to this community.
Call it karma ("carma", maybe?), but we all get ours in the end.









Haha funny how he doesn't have time to mail you but has time to PM me abuse, shows his worth


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_I was wondering why you were asking. lol Yes, the big port being flowed is R32 throttle, my personal mani. 








cool, glad we cleared that up... you gotta luv typing stuff here on the nett and getting the actual meaning all wrong..
Look forward to comparing the bench tests with actual power gains I have seen for myself in the case of the 007BP/R32
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_
is there going to be a regular throttlebody largeport 007 manifold used?

also, how much will the size of the throttlebody factor in to the test results?
It may be possible for me to supply and pay for the testing of a stock throttlebody 007 manifold w/ largeport runners.
might be interesting to compare to your R32 throttlebody results depending on the flow testing methods.



that would be interesting.. my personal thinking being most gains is size of the t'body, presuming the turbo in question has enough flow to justify it.
proof of the pudding however (english saying-lol) is eating, sorry, seeing..








I dare say the results would probably shoot me up the arse.. and my theory anyhow.. bring it on.. would be very interested to see result.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*

Guys.... be sure to throw the stock mani in there also. that way us ill informed, uneducated and untechnical folk can look at direct flow comparisons. im actually really excited to see how abd stacks up against stock. i am vry vry close to buying it







but if it is just for show i will have to go a diff route.
thx


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (bwell01)*

Stock OEM small port has already been flowbenched. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif OEM big port mani will be tested shortly as well.


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
No. try sending it again, because i did get a few today. But I havent been on in a while. so it could be so old it deleted itself already lol

Im sent hope it's not too late!


----------



## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

Paypal'ed axlekiller


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (efterZ)*

Thanks Jonas. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

tossed in some cash


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

Thanks for all of the support fellas.
I replied to about 8 Ims just now so hopefully i didnt miss anybodys questions lol.. 
Hopefully we will have a few more numbers in a day or 2.


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

I think it's interesting some manufacturers didn't copy the VAG injector placement. I'd think any variance from the OE position would have you pooling fuel on the intake ports down by the valves. Bad for power AND emissions.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoff Rood* »_I think it's interesting some manufacturers didn't copy the VAG injector placement. I'd think any variance from the OE position would have you pooling fuel on the intake ports down by the valves. Bad for power AND emissions.

the placement is factory correct... simply without the huge cast bosses killing the port entry area 


_Modified by silvercar at 6:15 PM 1-29-2007_


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

well that's good to hear


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*

I hate to break it to you guys,but the manifolds will react differently for different situations(big turbo vs little turbo).They use resonant tuning as much as they use flow amounts.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_I hate to break it to you guys,but the manifolds will react differently for different situations(big turbo vs little turbo).They use resonant tuning as much as they use flow amounts.

And? That means that flowbenching won't shed any light into flow capabilities or equal distribution of flow? We know they use resonant tuning, we know the flow is dynamic, and we know that flowbenching isn't a direct correlation to horsepower. We also know this is the first step into deciphering the intake manifold "myths" of the 1.8t forum/community. If you have anything constructive to add, please do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
And? That means that flowbenching won't shed any light into flow capabilities or equal distribution of flow? We know they use resonant tuning, we know the flow is dynamic, and we know that flowbenching isn't a direct correlation to horsepower. We also know this is the first step into deciphering the intake manifold "myths" of the 1.8t forum/community. If you have anything constructive to add, please do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Well put http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_I hate to break it to you guys,but the manifolds will react differently for different situations(big turbo vs little turbo).*They use resonant tuning as much as they use flow amounts.*

which means flow testing is equally as important


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*

VariantStg3's mani showed up today. Dahlback is here. Waiting on RMR and then those and the OEM big port are off to the flowbench. We're possibly expecting a guest appearance by a suprise last minute entry, but that's not 100% guaranteed at this point.










_Modified by axlekiller at 4:50 PM 1-30-2007_


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_poing.









whats a poing?


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
whats a poing? 

A poing is slightly less than a point and wholy one step above a poinb. Glad to hear the mani made it.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
whats a poing?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
And? That means that flowbenching won't shed any light into flow capabilities or equal distribution of flow? We know they use resonant tuning, we know the flow is dynamic, and we know that flowbenching isn't a direct correlation to horsepower. We also know this is the first step into deciphering the intake manifold "myths" of the 1.8t forum/community. If you have anything constructive to add, please do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

It is half of the equation.One that does not flow enough will not perform well.This however does not mean that the highest flow is going to be the best performer.Also two equal flow manifolds will not necessarily perform the same.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
It is half of the equation.One that does not flow enough will not perform well.This however does not mean that the highest flow is going to be the best performer.Also two equal flow manifolds will not necessarily perform the same.

Are you assisting the 1.8T community with any data etc? If not, then just don't bother posting!


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
It is half of the equation.One that does not flow enough will not perform well.This however does not mean that the highest flow is going to be the best performer.Also two equal flow manifolds will not necessarily perform the same.


Precisely. So does that not leave us with 50% more knowledge than we had? or still yet, knowing 50x what we knew prior??
Perhaps all of you 'hardcore' types dont understand that we understand exactly what this is and is not... If you are not interested in flow numbers, then send some money anyway, and we will get a dyno for a day. Then we will not only have the first half, but we can then see what the exact correlation is between bench behavior and performance on a given engine.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
Are you assisting the 1.8T community with any data etc? If not, then just don't bother posting!

As a matter of fact yes I will be helping out on this part of the design of the perfect 1.8t inntake manifold.








Another thing to reconsider is the one size fits all intake.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
It is half of the equation.One that does not flow enough will not perform well.This however does not mean that the highest flow is going to be the best performer.Also two equal flow manifolds will not necessarily perform the same.

Slappy'so'nutty, Flow rate is clearly more than half the equation. I bow to the "engineers on this thread" for the actual numbers but my "seat of the pants guess" is you get 80% of the benefit is from a better "flow rate." Then one increase the quality in driveability with better resonance characteristics in the plenum.
Your posts are silly. Not helpful not at all so far on this one.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_

Precisely. So does that not leave us with 50% more knowledge than we had? or still yet, knowing 50x what we knew prior??
Perhaps all of you 'hardcore' types dont understand that we understand exactly what this is and is not... If you are not interested in flow numbers, then send some money anyway, and we will get a dyno for a day. Then we will not only have the first half, but we can then see what the exact correlation is between bench behavior and performance on a given engine.









No your doing the right thing.Just keep in mind that the finish line is a little further away than originally thought








I will need some measurements of the manifolds when we get to this part and we can calculate the rest.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
As a matter of fact yes I will be helping out on this part of the design of the perfect 1.8t inntake manifold.








Another thing to reconsider is the one size fits all intake.

You are talking out both side of your mouth here. You can not develop the perfect manifold because - one size does not fit all.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
You are talking out both side of your mouth here. You can not develop the perfect manifold because - one size does not fit all.

Thanks. And poing you all.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
Slappy'so'nutty, Flow rate is clearly more than half the equation. I bow to the "engineers on this thread" for the actual numbers but my "seat of the pants guess" is you get 80% of the benefit is from a better "flow rate." Then one increase the quality in driveability with better resonance characteristics in the plenum.
Your posts are silly. Not helpful not at all so far on this one.

The resonant effect alone is worth 20-30% from what I have read.There is also velocity to consider and large changes of velocity between the head and intake will cost a whole bunch more.In the end you will be looking at alot more than you think.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
You are talking out both side of your mouth here. You can not develop the perfect manifold because - one size does not fit all.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
The resonant effect alone is worth 20-30% from what I have read.There is also velocity to consider and large changes of velocity between the head and intake will cost a whole bunch more.In the end you will be looking at alot more than you think.

Maybe that's my problem, I don't read much. I fabricate, go to the track and hopefully go faster. You have just given 20% more value to our test though as resonance accounts for 20-30% and I am betting again it is on the mid-throttle runs that this matters most. When a TB is wide fricking open each runner during the otto cycle is flowing as much air as possible while the rest patiently wait for there turn. Resonance be damned at the 1000 foot mark. Ha...


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
Maybe that's my problem, I don't read much. I fabricate, go to the track and hopefully go faster. You have just given 20% more value to our test though as resonance accounts for 20-30% and I am betting again it is on the mid-throttle runs that this matters most. When a TB is wide fricking open each runner during the otto cycle is flowing as much air as possible while the rest patiently wait for there turn. Resonance be damned at the 1000 foot mark. Ha...

I dont know much,I have never fabricated in my life








Until you understand how resonant frequecies work dont post any more.OK?


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Never questioned your skills only your intentions.
I know a little about resonance so i will continue to try and get you to offer knowledge not conjecture and negativity. The real question is where in a manifolds's design does resonance become a hinderence to flow, and my simple threory is the unwanted oscilation of the airflow happens faster with a smaller plenum especially with higher flow requirements.


_Modified by VariantStg3 at 6:22 PM 1-30-2007_


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_Never questioned your skills only your intentions.
I know a little about resonance so i will continue to try and get you to offer knowledge not conjecture and negativity. The real question is where in a manifolds's design does resonance become a hinderence to flow, and my simple threory is the unwanted oscilation of the airflow happens faster with a smaller the plenum especially with higher flow requirements.

I will be happy to help out.I was pointing out that there is alot more involved than flow and a few people took that as negativity and that was about as far from the intentions as could be.
Now if we can measure the cross section with of the intake runners,the length of the runners,and the intake plenuim volume I can tell you what the resonant rpm is.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

I dunno but am betting someone on the testing team is probably on that already. They are definitely smarted than me on this stuff.
I actually like the dyno day idea with a base line motor idea, problem is that is not feasable because of the difference in designs, unless of course we had a motor dyno, not an in car.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
I will be happy to help out.I was pointing out that there is alot more involved than flow and a few people took that as negativity and that was about as far from the intentions as could be.









that's cause you keep repeating the obvious. these dudes know that this isn't the whole picture, it's just a step in the right direction.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (screwball)*

OK here.If the people doing the testing would like my help I can tell you what the aprox resonant rpm will be for each manifold if given a few dimensions.
The original post was to point out that there are more factors to this procedure than whats being tested at the moment.
I have built a few intake manifolds for various different cars and have a pretty good gasp of the concept of what each manifold is going to do in the real world.
Basically I am offering my help.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

That wasn't so hard now was it. We'll see if they take you up on it.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_That wasn't so hard now was it. We'll see if they take you up on it.

I am not really sure what everyone here knows so I started from the begining.I am not really sure why everyone was so offended because of this,but that part is over I guess.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

i think everyone here is after the same thing here....


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_i think everyone here is after the same thing here....


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
I am not really sure what everyone here knows so I started from the begining.I am not really sure why everyone was so offended because of this,but that part is over I guess.

I think it is because these guys have done a bunch of work to get this test organized and you came in to the conversation saying it is not really useful or only 50% useful...
...and most of us felt like you where trying to kick the test in the balls.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
I think it is because these guys have done a bunch of work to get this test organized and you came in to the conversation saying it is not really useful or only 50% useful...
...and most of us felt like you where trying to kick the test in the balls. 

I actually tried to not come into the thread like that and it happened anyways.Oh well I'm here,now what ya goin to do wit me


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Well the testers do know what they are looking for, and your point has been discussed before. But is test is a start, there has not been this level testing on any of the aftermarket parts for imports on a whole, we can always look at an intake shootout for a chevy or ford, but on a VW, I can't remember when that ever happaned. So the info here is well sort at, and the efforts of these two are still well beyond any thing they have to do.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (monster007)*

Slappy, I will take all of the help i can get. tell me the dimensions you need and i will make the measurements (i have very good measuring equip.







) 

A comment (off the forum) was made to me that got me thinking the other day... basically, i would now like to make a rubber casting of a runner from each manifold. we could then cut and measure those and get an idea of average, max, min cross sectional area. Does anyone have experience with this? thoughts? dissent?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*

You mean fill-up the runners with laytex rubber?


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_You mean fill-up the runners with laytex rubber?









How bout the dental impression stuff?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
How bout the dental impression stuff?

Would that be able to come out or squeeze out the runner once dry?


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

Pretty much... I know that there is a specific type that is widely used amongst the big pimpin engine builders; i just dont know what it is. lol
bobq?
page 20 ownage


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

I think it stays pretty pliable and will pop loose as long as the runners are coated with the slip agent they put on your teeth. It would need more investigation.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_I think it stays pretty pliable and will pop loose as long as the runners are coated with the slip agent they put on your teeth. It would need more investigation.

That would be awesome if it would work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*

http://www.burmanfoam.com/estore/Pr...LEXIBLE+&+RIGID+POLYFOAMS'ORD:ABS:1KEY:40PAR:

Also,
http://uscomposites.com/moldmaking.html


_Modified by bobqzzi at 10:39 PM 1-30-2007_


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_http://www.burmanfoam.com/estore/Pr...LEXIBLE+&+RIGID+POLYFOAMS'ORD:ABS:1KEY:40PAR:

_Modified by bobqzzi at 10:36 PM 1-30-2007_

http://bobslink.notlong.com/


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

owned by the tex...


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

A properly TUNED intake manifold will give 4-7% more power over an untuned intake. A properly DESIGNED intake manifold, with a properly sized throttle body, plenum and runners will yield horsepower as well. This might be where you think 20% increases come from.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoff Rood* »_A properly TUNED intake manifold will give 4-7% more power over an untuned intake. A properly DESIGNED intake manifold, with a properly sized throttle body, plenum and runners will yield horsepower as well. This might be where you think 20% increases come from.

I agree with this completely. While resonance tuning does work, it's really the icing on the cake.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (monster007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *monster007* »_Well the testers do know what they are looking for, and your point has been discussed before. But is test is a start, there has not been this level testing on any of the aftermarket parts for imports on a whole, we can always look at an intake shootout for a chevy or ford, but on a VW, I can't remember when that ever happaned. So the info here is well sort at, and the efforts of these two are still well beyond any thing they have to do.

















Other than the sponsors/users on here posting paypals to fund this, is there any benefit from a VW/euro tuner type magazine supporting this also for a feature?
Does this have any merit, or just distraction?
just a thought


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
I agree with this completely. While resonance tuning does work, it's really the icing on the cake. 

Is the resonance aspect suppressed when boosted at x psi plenum pressure on our turbo cars.
I know I have seen and used some aspects of the resonance on the n/a 16v's I started with (direct to head throttle bodies etc) and injector position, airhorn length all made signifcant differences to the torque delivery within the rpm range, and you could see standing wave of fuel coming out of the airhorns at some rpms on the given motor I was dynoing. quite how this would manifest itself in a pressurised inlet, I dont know.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (badger5)*

If you put a very large turbo and a set of cams on a 1.8t you will very much be out of the range of efficient intake performance.The farther you go from stock the larger the % of gain you will see with a proper designed intake.
This is very similar to trying to make large amounts of power with a KO3.The farther you go from stock the harder it will be to make more power.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_
Other than the sponsors/users on here posting paypals to fund this, is there any benefit from a VW/euro tuner type magazine supporting this also for a feature?
Does this have any merit, or just distraction?
just a thought

I would say NO because those magazines are owned by their sponsors. I am betting they would have issues with actually showing the differences between the products.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

Eurotuner is m ore interested in ICE, rims, and body kit......not power. The more bling and stickers you have, the better chance you have at front cover!


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

the resonance gains aren't really suppressed as it is still just a compressible fluid moving into the chamber. Pressure bears no real effect on that. The thing is the gains resonance gains cover a very small RPM band, probably in the order of 500 RPM, and with the length of the runners on these manifolds it's usually in the 7000ish RPM area. Gains are also easily overshadowed by torque spikes from the spooling of a turbocharger.


----------



## HPR (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*

i do not believe that pressure waves are suppressed at 30 or 40psi boost. Fuel injected in cilinder 1 will partly be burnt in cilinders 2,3 or 4 this is what happens in N.A engines with Airbox,And IMO the same will happen in F.I engines as the force off these pressure waves is much stronger and will travel freely in the plenum between cilinder 1 and 4 ,infact this wave will stay some moments near cilinders 1-2 before moving to 3-4 and back, even on full boost.
IMO some manifolds will work better with cams and other with a 2.0l engine,BT and so on.
There are just to much variables. flow is one thing but trimming runner lenghts for each cilinder apart can maybe bring more.?
Or make use off a tapered tube behind T.B and promote laminar flow.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (HPR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HPR* »_There are just to much variables. flow is one thing but trimming runner lenghts for each cilinder apart can maybe bring more.?
Or *make use of a tapered plenum behind T.B to promote laminar flow*.


Very Good thank you! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Longer runners well also help promote this as well.


_Modified by Don R at 9:32 AM 1-31-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoff Rood* »_ The thing is the gains resonance gains cover a very small RPM band, probably in the order of 500 RPM, and with the length of the runners on these manifolds it's usually in the 7000ish RPM area. Gains are also easily overshadowed by torque spikes from the spooling of a turbocharger.

I like this guy.







Yes, another reason why resonant tuning is only a small part of the picture. It's basis is to pinpoint your peak torque, and slightly shift the curve around. It's not going to add large increases across the entire curve. And like said, the onset of boost will most likely overshadow the gains, assuming your manifold design puts peak torque right in the midrange rpms where your turbo wakes up.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
I like this guy.







Yes, another reason why resonant tuning is only a small part of the picture. It's basis is to pinpoint your peak torque, and slightly shift the curve around. It's not going to add large increases across the entire curve. And like said, the onset of boost will most likely overshadow the gains, assuming your manifold design puts peak torque right in the midrange rpms where your turbo wakes up. 

But if you tune for 2nd pulse you will still benefit 3rd and 4th pulse .
So it will be a small performance gain over 4000rpm with a big peak at the stongest pulse http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*









sorry, this thread had gone on too long without mechanic kittah.
Do you guys think it would be a good call to get the volume and mesurements of these manis, crunch the hemholtz equations to get some theoretical specs? Its not definative or real world test data but it would at least associate some specs with flow rates.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_








sorry, this thread had gone on too long without mechanic kittah.
Do you guys think it would be a good call to get the volume and mesurements of these manis, crunch the hemholtz equations to get some theoretical specs? Its not definative or real world test data but it would at least associate some specs with flow rates. 

Vortex's Best Cat Thread Evar!
It would be nice to see the volume of each manifold, and that shouldn't be too difficult to do either. Maybe possibly even show the differences in displacement between the plenum and runners too.


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_Eurotuner is m ore interested in ICE, rims, and body kit......not power. The more bling and stickers you have, the better chance you have at front cover!

Not only that but it seems that they dumb down a lot of their articles of technical data. I guess to make it universal for reader education???
But I'm sure that if it were presented to them in a way such as:
*INTAKE SHOOT OUT!!!*
"We tested all of these manifolds, and found that this one flowed the best!" throw some graphs at it and a few numbers. They would bite.
-Neko


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Kiddo)*

Hate to say it, but why would the organizers of this test want to give anything away. If I were them I would write the whole thing up in a powerpoint or pdf document and put it up for sale to anyone who did not offer money for the test. 
They have done the work and now have a level of knowledge that the rest of us want. Those of us that have helped them get the information together should get complimentary copies, but then why shouldn't they profit from their work. Ebay listing of an Intake comparison guide could make a pretty penny over the years.
Listing Title:
VW 1.8t Intake manifold comparison guide.
Comperhensive data about the ten best manifolds on the market. With flow information and demensional data to help you make an informed decision.
$5.99 delivered via email.


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

i dont like the idea of charging for it, people donated time and money to benefit everybody else, if they are scrapped for cash im sure they could just ask and a bunch of us would be glad to pitch in.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_Hate to say it, but why would the organizers of this test want to give anything away. If I were them I would write the whole thing up in a powerpoint or pdf document and put it up for sale to anyone who did not offer money for the test. 
They have done the work and now have a level of knowledge that the rest of us want. Those of us that have helped them get the information together should get complimentary copies, but then why shouldn't they profit from their work. Ebay listing of an Intake comparison guide could make a pretty penny over the years.
Listing Title:
VW 1.8t Intake manifold comparison guide.
Comperhensive data about the ten best manifolds on the market. With flow information and demensional data to help you make an informed decision.
$5.99 delivered via email.


I'm for it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_i dont like the idea of charging for it, people donated time and money to benefit everybody else, if they are scrapped for cash im sure they could just ask and a bunch of us would be glad to pitch in.

Anyone who donated already, time or money would get a copy of the report for free. BUT THEN, they could charge those who did not a small fee. If it works out it could lead to a product like consumer reports where there is no bias from advertisers but real hard fact.
Strapped for cash is not even the point. Real "Fact Based" Knowledge is a valuable and it will continue to be going forward. MANY people would be glad to pay 5.99 for something that could save them the mistake of buying a mismatched manifold.


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

this thread just went south......


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (LO-vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LO-vw* »_this thread just went south...... 


Because...?


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (LO-vw)*

all i need to know is which intakes have been completed and how many more are left? 
i can see why ppl would try and benifit from the testing but i dont advise it. personally i would donate a little cash for a lot of knowledge but thats me. how would the loot be divided by the testers or would it go toward further test? whatever the case you guys need to let us, the public, know how its gonna go down. if i need to be sending a couple pesos lemme know cuz i need to know which intake to match up with my 2871r for 350-400 whp. currently im at 343whp but plan on taking another shot with better fueling and hopefully a new manifold soon.
*DOES THE ABD MANI MAKE ANY SIGNIFICANT GAINS OR SIMPLY PUT... DOES THE MOFO WORK?*


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (bwell01)*

yea, all it would take is one person "buying it" for $5 and posting it up or showing their friends who post it up.
I only tossed in $20, so I'm sure I didn't put that big of a dent in the testing, but hopefully every little bit helps and it can just be free public knowledge without the hassle of trying to make sure everyone buys it and doesn't repost it.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

All-in-all the testing they are doing now will cost almost as much as one of the manifolds themselves. It's not a terrible amount of money for two people to spend, and it's especially manageable with the support of the forum. I think they did it the best way possible; encourage people to paypal a few bucks. If you can afford a few-hundred-dollar manifold, you can spare $20 to support and *encourage* tests like this.
Nevermind the money part of it, I'm impressed we got as big of a turnout as we did. I tip my hat to those who organized and supported this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

Well to the people who put in more then 5.99 or what ever you sell this vast of information at its not fair. I know its also can be argued that its not far to the people who didn’t donate anything. Well its a donation you don’t have to do it. The whole point of this thread was to create information for the vortex community, not make some profit or some select group of people can have the info. I have a feeling that form all the money discussed that most of the flow bench time is covered. Esp. if every one threw in like 10-20 bux and that huge chunk that the sponsor put in. Also what stops some one from buying it and then posting the info? Then every one is sol and back to the whole idea of the good of the vortex people.
If you don’t agree with me that’s fine I just think its not a good idea to start charging people for this info. I honestly don’t even have a 1.8t right now im just curious to how all this testing pans out and what designs seem to flow the best for the desired flow rate. 
So are these tests only going to find max flow rate or are you going to do an overall low med and high flow rate test? There isn’t just one setting on a flow bench.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (LO-vw)*

funny thing is, none of the 2 individuals doing the test said anything about charging.....so why is there such a big funk about it?


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_All-in-all the testing they are doing now will cost almost as much as one of the manifolds themselves. It's not a terrible amount of money for two people to spend, and it's especially manageable with the support of the forum. I think they did it the best way possible; encourage people to paypal a few bucks. If you can afford a few-hundred-dollar manifold, you can spare $20 to support and *encourage* tests like this.
Nevermind the money part of it, I'm impressed we got as big of a turnout as we did. I tip my hat to those who organized and supported this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks, and i agree with jeff about people reposting it. the testers have their own fair share of haters lol.. besides that, it wasn presented that way to the forum from the get go, so i dont really want to go at it like that personally








to answer the other question: 
the stock small port and the 007 small port are done.
the hypertune BP, 007 BP, ABD SP, and APR BP are currently being benched.
and the Dahlback SP, variant stg3 homebrew BP, and RMR are on deck.


_Modified by silvercar at 12:47 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_funny thing is, none of the 2 individuals doing the test said anything about charging.....so why is there such a big funk about it?









Well I think they made it obvious they themselves weren't gonna pay to do all this testing. I mean, you can't blame em. Why spend over $500 to test all these manifolds and then post up information so everyone else can view for free?








Besides, it's already been agreed that this is a forum-wide collaboration to find out more info about different intake manifolds. I think the people that aren't contributing don't know enough to get anything from the results anyways.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_funny thing is, none of the 2 individuals doing the test said anything about charging.....so why is there such a big funk about it?









I Agree with that! My posts are just another way to look at the situation. Fact is there has been a HUGE market turn out with a HUGE level of interest in getting these manifolds tested. I am betting that this same turn out would turn up for exhaust manifold testing and TB testing, all kinds of stuff. 
*It is an IDEA! Just like gettin a magazine writing it up was, nothing more.*
What can I say I am a capitalist. I LOVE MONEY!!!! Don't you?


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

i love money 2 
but im not seeing any from this test







hehe


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

I have one gripe about having the official data posted here on the tex. I have a feeling this will be a conflict of interest for vortex and will somehow find this a means of soliciting do in part by some of the designers/fabricators of these manifolds not being a sponsor of the forum or a paid advertiser.


_Modified by Don R at 4:02 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*

Very true...I got some crap from one of the mods about making the title THE instead of MY b/c I spoke of certain mods made by certain companies...so it's unfair to anyone else. What you thinkin Don?
I say then if you contributed you're entitled to the info...and any attempt to post that info freely on Vortex will result in a blackholed thread.


_Modified by SAVwKO at 4:06 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_...What you thinkin Don?

You know the answer to that already...










_Modified by Don R at 4:08 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

well if vortex is gonna be a bitch about it....then post it else where and throw a link up in someone's sig


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_I have one gripe about having the official data posted here on the tex. I have a feeling this will be a conflict of interest for vortex and will somehow find this a means of soliciting do in part by some of the designers/fabricators of these manifolds not being a sponsor of the forum or a paid advertiser.

_Modified by Don R at 4:02 PM 1-31-2007_

Don, that second sentence has my head spinning that's a whole lot of words tied together...
But I agree with your point. I mean in a very short time we are going to have fact based evidence of a manifold's worth and which one seems to be the best for big turbo, bigger turbo and huge turbo applications. We might even find out that none of them are better than the next, doubtful, but maybe.
Anyway, however it happens I think it is highly sought after information and worth allot to tuners everywhere. I mean do you think the Vortex is the only place this stuff gets talked about....


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

My appologies for the run-on sentence








..but yes you're correct about the other place(s)


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

lol... it will be in a safe place guys. free from any sort of infiltration by the 1.8th reich


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_lol... it will be in a safe place guys. free from any sort of infiltration by the 1.8th reich









Das ist Gut! Wir würden kein von den Geheimnissen aussteigend wollen. Besonders, wie ich mein mannigfaltiges entworfen habe. Ach errate ich, dass es zu spät für das ist.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_I say then if you contributed you're entitled to the info...and any attempt to post that info freely on Vortex will result in a blackholed thread.

_Modified by SAVwKO at 4:06 PM 1-31-2007_

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha @this thread. charging people, hiding the info. same bs people cry to me about with me not sharing what is being developed with my car. now you all know why. it costs money to develop, and time to test products. as long as we're all on the same page.








mike, i hate to tell you, there is not a mod or admin on this site that would hole the info if it was posted. you can attempt to make claims on demanding such action, but it won't happen. stu already said it would be in the faq.


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha @this thread. charging people, hiding the info. same bs people cry to me about with me not sharing what is being developed with my car. now you all know why. it costs money to develop, and time to test products. as long as we're all on the same page.








mike, i hate to tell you, there is not a mod or admin on this site that would hole the info if it was posted. you can attempt to make claims on demanding such action, but it won't happen. stu already said it would be in the faq. 

Well I'm going on the whole advertiser support argument. How come I made a writeup and it was said to be biased when what I used is obviously a very good recipe...so why say buy something else? After this info is released the loser is gonna notice noone is buying their manis any more b/c they blow. Then they'll bitch about it...oh well. W/e I paid I wanna see this ****.


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_After this info is released the loser is gonna notice noone is buying their manis any more b/c they blow. Then they'll bitch about it...oh well. W/e I paid I wanna see this ****.

It also has been stated many times in this thread already that different manifolds will benefit different setups in different ways. Just because one manifold flows more cfm than the next, doesn't mean it's better for you. They will need to consider plenum size and runner length and width among other things before saying this manifold is the best *for my particular setup*
I hope that people looking into buying a manifold read the entire thread, and not just the "last page" where the flow results are tested.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
It also has been stated many times in this thread already that different manifolds will benefit different setups in different ways. Just because one manifold flows more cfm than the next, doesn't mean it's better for you. They will need to consider plenum size and runner length and width among other things before saying this manifold is the best *for my particular setup*
I hope that people looking into buying a manifold read the entire thread, and not just the "last page" where the flow results are tested.









whos to say which manifold _would_ be good for your particular set-up? the testers?


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
whos to say which manifold _would_ be good for your particular set-up? the testers?























Good question, I'm still a newb, so I don't know















I guess, in my case, I would ask people in the know. Maybe, in my case, the mani that flows the best would be the best solution for me, maybe not.
All I was saying, that flow results aren't the only determining factor in what is the "best" manifold, and I hope that the Vortex users realize that when making a decision on which to buy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by SloJTI at 4:23 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (SloJTI)*

We're paid advertisers and support the testing. Let us know how we can help disseminate the information.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

Can't wait to see the results








I hope mine just makes avarage flow. That way I won't feel so bad


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

get'er dun ****(sapien)s. I don't know what's been donated yet but hell I will send a few bucks just cause. but I can tell u all now that I'm postin' the ish everywhere once its in my posession. I don't think the info will be enough to make anyone rich cuz there are just too many variables left untested but the results will no doubt help give an idea on what setup to run or what to expect with a specific setup. 
like some said earlier... most of aren't smart enough to put the info to use anyway.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (bwell01)*

btw... lets go ABD!!!!
man I hope that thing shows potential eventhough I've read u gotta do some porting to make it flow right.


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Can't wait to see the results








I hope mine just makes avarage flow. That way I won't feel so bad 

x2
It would be nice if the info could some how finance further testing... 
-neko


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha @this thread. charging people, hiding the info. same bs people cry to me about with me not sharing what is being developed with my car. now you all know why. it costs money to develop, and time to test products. as long as we're all on the same page.








mike, i hate to tell you, there is not a mod or admin on this site that would hole the info if it was posted. you can attempt to make claims on demanding such action, but it won't happen. stu already said it would be in the faq. 

Boostin20v said that the information would be in the FAQ. not the discussion that followed persay. which IMO is just as important as the data.
And if you could clarify exactly what you are trying to say with the first paragraph in that post, I would appreciate it.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (silvercar)*

Off topic? lol As already stated, Tank and I were going to pay for our own manifolds before any of this already started. It just snowballed into this. We won't be selling the results. We will be making sure that Vortex can't remove or restrict the info based on advertiser reactions. Now get back to talking about manifolds.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
And if you could clarify exactly what you are trying to say with the first paragraph in that post, I would appreciate it.










what needs clarified?









_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha @this thread. charging people, hiding the info. same bs people cry to me about with me not sharing what is being developed with my car. now you all know why. it costs money to develop, and time to test products. as long as we're all on the same page.











_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Off topic? lol As already stated, Tank and I were going to pay for our own manifolds before any of this already started. It just snowballed into this. We won't be selling the results. We will be making sure that Vortex can't remove or restrict the info based on advertiser reactions. Now get back to talking about manifolds.









thanks for clearing that up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
what needs clarified?










well... without tone of voice, it can read as your disdain or approval


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Off topic? lol As already stated, Tank and I were going to pay for our own manifolds before any of this already started. It just snowballed into this. We won't be selling the results. We will be making sure that Vortex can't remove or restrict the info based on advertiser reactions. Now get back to talking about manifolds.









a page worth of grips and complaints put out in one post. THANK YOU


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Very quick calc (need exact length of full runner to back of valves) on the stock intake and it seems the resonant rpm is ~ 7200rpm.The stock size runners are a little smallish to keep up the velocity.
I wonder how this compares to the AEB intakes?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

silvercar and axlekiller:
Did you get the money you were hoping for? Would you like to make one last push for funds before you release the results?


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

anyone have any numbers we can start throwing into equations, dimensions volume etc.







plus keep these tests on the DL, theres a big conspiracy on the 'tex and the mods ARE IN ON IT. trust noone!


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Perhaps yet another to add to the line-up








007 for A4 transverse


































_Modified by Don R at 11:57 PM 1-31-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Don R)*

Tease.


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

any one know where i can get some of the bellmouths used in these mani's


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (LO-vw)*

im glad the testers arent forcing ppl to pay... lemme know who im paypal'n though cuz







i can spare a few beans


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_I have one gripe about having the official data posted here on the tex. I have a feeling this will be a conflict of interest for vortex and will somehow find this a means of soliciting do in part by some of the designers/fabricators of these manifolds not being a sponsor of the forum or a paid advertiser.

_Modified by Don R at 4:02 PM 1-31-2007_

thats silly....


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_
Well I'm going on the whole advertiser support argument. How come I made a writeup and it was said to be biased when what I used is obviously a very good recipe...so why say buy something else? After this info is released the loser is gonna notice noone is buying their manis any more b/c they blow. Then they'll bitch about it...oh well. W/e I paid I wanna see this ****.

I don't buy it...there is no reason for the behavior you'd stated. IMHO you are doing nothing but keeping up these false beliefs....your acting like a Vortex drama queen.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_
I don't buy it...there is no reason for the behavior you'd stated. IMHO you are doing nothing but keeping up these false beliefs....your acting like a Vortex drama queen.

Although I believe what you are saying here,there was a thread that a few of us wanted recently that was shot down because of this. 
BF! supports this thread (even DonR trying to whore it out)


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_
thats silly....

It's silly,yes, but true Stu. This is based on my past experience...and I pretty much follow the forum rules. Sometimes, new products, new developments and innovative ideas need to be 'whored out' (within reason) to create subject matter to build info for the community 
Guaranteed there will be discussion about the results on these intake manis...we'll see what comes of it.


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (solowb5)*

where do you guys find those big metal dougnuts for the stacks?


----------



## 20vK (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

I've been following this thread for a while, and can't wait to see the results!
I must admit, I've been fairly surprised that the larger manufacturers themselves have not tested their own manis for a crfm flow rate - Although I expect getting a product on the shelves is their primary concern.
I can understand that the majority of people aren't really interested and just want to know what extra bhp they'll get if they strap one on. But I would have thought that as part of the R&D of a manifold (especially the "mass produced" manis), that the manufacturers would have used a flow bench to ensure they were maximising their development time - have I missed something here? Some of these manis look like they have had a fair few $$ put into them and surely the cost of a flow test would not push them over budget!
I'm not having a go at them, (since without them, we wouldn't have any other manis to choose from), but am very surprised that I haven't read about any flow data from any of them. I wonder if it is a case of all of them keeping the data quiet, so none of them will lose out on sales? Or am I being too cynical?
I've been trying to get this kind of info for ages!
I would send some ££, but am strapped for cash at the mo, (between Jobs). If I start my new job before you finish testing, I'll send some money your way, for sure.
Many thanks for what promises to be a set of very interesting results.
Rich


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (solowb5)*

This thread is about technical aspects of all intake manifolds. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And a friendly reminder, paypal [email protected] as silvercar is having some trouble with his paypal account currently. Thanks again for all the support. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Boostin20v at 2:26 PM 2-1-2007_


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (20vK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vK* »_
I'm not having a go at them, (since without them, we wouldn't have any other manis to choose from), but am very surprised that I haven't read about any flow data from any of them. I wonder if it is a case of all of them keeping the data quiet, so none of them will lose out on sales? Or am I being too cynical?
Rich

This applies to a lot of parts in this industry beyond intake manifolds.....exhaust manifolds, air intakes, cams, exhausts, intercoolers, etc.....That's why this test is so important and refreshing. Hopefully we can keep some momentum going and test other items....


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_
This applies to a lot of parts in this industry beyond intake manifolds.....exhaust manifolds, air intakes, cams, exhausts, intercoolers, etc.....That's why this test is so important and refreshing. Hopefully we can keep some momentum going and test other items....

Thank you for mentioning it Mike http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

I can tell you that there was no R&D put into my manifold. So whatever comes of the test will be my R&D. It will be excellent info for me and others in the Home Built Arena. I am hoping the testers will post pics of the unit showing just everyone how basic it is. The runners are all VW and have only been slightly modified for match porting purposes.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

There will be extensive pics and data compiled for the final results.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 20vK (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
It's silly,yes, but true Stu. This is based on my past experience...and I pretty much follow the forum rules. Sometimes, new products, new developments and innovative ideas need to be 'whored out' (within reason) to create subject matter to build info for the community 
Guaranteed there will be discussion about the results on these intake manis...we'll see what comes of it.

New products are wonderful. When the poster is the one making them, or stands to profit is when its time to make a choice....pay to advertise or take your postings else where.
*Lets keep this back on track guys....this thread is about the testing of a wide variety of available manifolds and nothing else*


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*












































Here's to one of the first threads I've experience over 20 pages that is not driven by pics.











































I might not understand it all but I'm personally excited about the data being collected and still hope that other products can be tested also.
Cheers
-Neko


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Kiddo)*

I would love to see exhaust mani's done also http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (VRT)*

this Cosworth mani is bad ass.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*

Very well designed intake mani http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

Okay, how about these, then?
























































installed in...


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

That one as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Anyone know why these dual plenum styles work well?


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

that would be cool to see tested, but i would think that it's worth more then any one of our cars......


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_That one as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Anyone know why these dual plenum styles work well?









Are you asking for an answer or to see if anyone knows as much as you?








I'd say once the first plenum is filled, all the air equally enters the second plenum and is equally dispersed amongst all runners, unlike our stock one where cyl1 gets most and cyl4 gets least. That good?


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_That one as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Anyone know why these dual plenum styles work well?









even distrubution of constant flow???








wild guess


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_
Are you asking for an answer or to see if anyone knows as much as you?








I'd say once the first plenum is filled, all the air equally enters the second plenum and is equally dispersed amongst all runners, unlike our stock one where cyl1 gets most and cyl4 gets least. That good?
















Yes but there is another aspect to it. The configuration and location of the slot inlet to the plenum in relation to the entrance of the ports








Imagine the curtain of air travelling tangential along the contour of the pelnum allowing it to tumble into the runner ports (like a cloths dryer machine)


_Modified by Don R at 1:31 PM 2-2-2007_


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Yes but there is another aspect to it. The configuration and location of the slot inlet to the plenum in relation to the entrance of the ports








Imagine the curtain of air travelling tangential along the contour of the pelnum allowing it to tumble into the runner ports (like a cloths dryer machine)

_Modified by Don R at 1:31 PM 2-2-2007_

Wouldn't of even thought of that...Flowmaster should drop their name cuz you da only one.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (Don R)*

here's a pic of that manifold with the cover off.








you can see that only half of the plenum floor is there. looks like the air comes in that lower plenum then does a 180 directly into the runners.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_here's a pic of that manifold with the cover off.








you can see that only half of the plenum floor is there. looks like the air comes in that lower plenum then does a 180 directly into the runners.

Thanks for posting that perfeto


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_
Are you asking for an answer or to see if anyone knows as much as you?








I'd say once the first plenum is filled, all the air equally enters the second plenum and is equally dispersed amongst all runners, unlike our stock one where * cyl1 gets most and cyl4 gets least*. That good?















 
see... I'm learning something already







this proves my theory as to why when coilpacks on cylinder 4 go bad the problem is really noticeable but as you get to cyl's 2 its a little less apparent until u build more boost. basically I went through three coilpacks on different cyl's in 2 weeks. here's what I noticed...
cyl 4 bad = 5psi boost and then flashing cell w/ wrx sound cuz only 3 cylinder worked.
cyl 3 bad = 12-15psi boost w/ same symptoms
cyl 2 bad = 20 psi boost before the same symptoms kicked in
I think I had all these coilpacks go bad so quick cuz my exhaust manifold bolts had broken and there was a huge gap there. I had been holding it on with vicegrips til I could get them retapped. everytime a vice would come off I blew a coilpack.... crazy I know but that's what I noticed.
paypaling today


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*








a carbon fiber mani ehhh... there are some techniques out there for casting your own carbon fiber...


----------



## monster007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*

Some C5 stuff


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Tetzuoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tetzuoe* »_







a carbon fiber mani ehhh... there are some techniques out there for casting your own carbon fiber...









similar to working with fiberglas. you can either lay the weave and apply resin as each layer goes on, or buy impregnated carbon fiber, which has the resin injected already. the latter must be kept cold, because the resin is activated by heat. once it heats up (even to room temp) it is very difficult to work with.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_
... our stock one where cyl1 gets most and cyl4 gets least. 


Have any data to support that claim?


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_

Have any data to support that claim?









Lol no...but it makes sense to me...plus Don didn't say it was wrong so ha! Take dat


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Anyone know why these dual plenum styles work well?









How did the Dhalback manifold perform?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
How did the Dhalback manifold perform?

Hasn't been dropped off yet. They haven't finished the previous four yet.









_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_

Have any data to support that claim?









No he doesn't.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Hasn't been dropped off yet. They haven't finished the previous four yet.











just spoke with CPC. The manifolds will be picked up tomorrow afternoon (assuming i put my car back together tonight instead of getting drunk) otherwise they will be picked up monday...
brought home some measuring tools from work today. what dimensions would yuo guys like to see compiled in the writeup?


----------



## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_here's a pic of that manifold with the cover off.








you can see that only half of the plenum floor is there. looks like the air comes in that lower plenum then does a 180 directly into the runners.

yes and manifold only costs 695$


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_
Lol no...but it makes sense to me...plus Don didn't say it was wrong so ha! Take dat









How do you figure? Yeah maybe if the velocity of the charge air was like .5mph then that could be true. But when you care cramming air into it at 300mph then the air gets slammed into the back of the mani.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (talx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *talx* »_
yes and manifold only costs 695$

























are you kidding me?!whats the bore spacing on the cosworth engine?


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_
How do you figure? Yeah maybe if the velocity of the charge air was like .5mph then that could be true. But when you care cramming air into it at 300mph then the air gets slammed into the back of the mani.

The velocity of the air and or the pressure of the air does not change the specific flow rate of the manifold based on plenum design, If the intake feeds cylinder 2/3 more effeciently than cylinder 1/4 in a non-boosted application then that characteristic will be found in the boosted application as well. Remember it is the lowering of pressure in the clyinder as the piston chases to the bottom of the stroke that creates need for pressuure equalization in the space. The fact that a cylinder can be filled with more mixture is related to the differential between the two pressures more than the forcing of air into the chamber. Although there is a relationship it cannot make up for unbalanced design. 1/4 will still get less charge.


----------



## Didi_N (Dec 27, 2005)

@ silvercar
received paypal?
measuring the manifolds a list of the external dimensions would be interesting. Maybe with some detailed pics and additional measures compared to a stock manifold to see, especially for swapped 1,8Ts, if its fits or not (for example using a dahlbäck one on a MKII you have to cut a little bit out of the inner hood reinforcement..)


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_similar to working with fiberglas. you can either lay the weave and apply resin as each layer goes on, or buy impregnated carbon fiber, which has the resin injected already. the latter must be kept cold, because the resin is activated by heat. once it heats up (even to room temp) it is very difficult to work with. 

so would you do something like lost wax casting, or cover the inside of a mold, youd also have to find a weive thats good for holding pressure. It definaltey sounds like a fun/interesting project


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
The velocity of the air and or the pressure of the air does not change the specific flow rate of the manifold based on plenum design, If the intake feeds cylinder 2/3 more efficiently than cylinder 1/4 in a non-boosted application then that characteristic will be found in the boosted application as well. Remember it is the lowering of pressure in the cylinder as the piston chases to the bottom of the stroke that creates need for pressure equalization in the space. The fact that a cylinder can be filled with more mixture is related to the differential between the two pressures more than the forcing of air into the chamber. Although there is a relationship it cannot make up for unbalanced design. 1/4 will still get less charge.

To simplify/add a bit: In a closed system like the one you have from the turbo through engine (disregarding for a moment DV/BOV actuation), outside pressure does not have a role; so don't think of the intake feed as a vacuum/pressured charge. The intake charge has two properties: speed and density. Inside an intake manifold there is no 'transition to boost' because the outside pressure doesn't matter to it.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

paypal sent http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

lets go abd ~~ smirks ~~


----------



## Dejan (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (bwell01)*

I want to make intake manifold with invidual throttle bodies... but dont know which one to use!
Does anybody know which tb to take and some pictures were nice also!


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Dejan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dejan* »_I want to make intake manifold with invidual throttle bodies... but dont know which one to use!
Does anybody know which tb to take and some pictures were nice also!



What size TBs are you thinking about? Do they make TBs smaller than the stock one that will still work easily?


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Dejan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dejan* »_I want to make intake manifold with invidual throttle bodies... but dont know which one to use!
Does anybody know which tb to take and some pictures were nice also!



hit up wizard-of-od. he knows which ones to use, and iirc he had some forsale too.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (Dejan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dejan* »_I want to make intake manifold with invidual throttle bodies... but dont know which one to use!
Does anybody know which tb to take and some pictures were nice also!


What ever you decide to use, make sure that you've got a progressive linkage set up. This will only move the throttle plates a little bit when you first step on the pedal and then open faster as you continue to give it throttle. If you go with a linear throttle curve, you'll have a very jumpy and hard to drive vehicle.



_Modified by [email protected] at 2:08 PM 2-5-2007_


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
What ever you decide to use, make sure that you've got a progressive linkage set up. This will only move the throttle plates a little bit when you first step on the pedal and then open faster as you continue to give it throttle. If you go with a linear throttle curve, you'll have a very jumpy and hard to drive vehicle.


x2 === necessary on large throttle bodies as well. Anything much past 70mm gets really irritating.


----------



## Dejan (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

And where can I get them?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Dejan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dejan* »_And where can I get them?

These are off a 954RR (42mm @ butterfly)


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (Dejan)*

DAP got some crazy **** for his 1.8T and ill guess he can mass produce








http://www.zatzy.com/showthread.php?t=288013


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_DAP got some crazy **** for his 1.8T and ill guess he can mass produce








http://www.zatzy.com/showthread.php?t=288013

omg I can't understand anything in that thread but the pictures tell a great story!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_DAP got some crazy **** for his 1.8T and ill guess he can mass produce








http://www.zatzy.com/showthread.php?t=288013


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

He also got a joke about how he sold the scrap alu material on the floor.








He makes these manifolds out of fresh big blocks of aluminum http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








dual injector bungs/fireing positions and adjustable velocity stacks with wiggins style clamps


_Modified by [email protected] at 1:37 PM 2-5-2007_


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Just picked up the hypertune bp, apr bp, abd sp, and 007 bp from the flowbench... and i must say..........................................

the plot thickens


----------



## PolskiHetzen (Apr 25, 2006)

*Re: (silvercar)*

when are the results avilable


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Just picked up the hypertune bp, apr bp, abd sp, and 007 bp from the flowbench... and i must say..........................................

the plot thickens









<-- places bet on ABD


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Just picked up the hypertune bp, apr bp, abd sp, and 007 bp from the flowbench... and i must say..........................................

the plot thickens









and? what's the point of your post if you won't release info?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Just picked up the hypertune bp, apr bp, abd sp, and 007 bp from the flowbench... and i must say..........................................

the plot thickens









Tease


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
and? what's the point of your post if you won't release info?


To let the people following this thread know that we are making progress and getting nearer to the release of the info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
To let the people following this thread know that we are making progress and *getting nearer to the release of the info*. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









Sorry had to








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_and? what's the point of your post if you won't release info?


All though this is your thread have you contributed?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_All though this is your thread have you contributed?

Yes, isam it's called financially and I am eager to see results as you!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_Yes, isam it's called financially and I am eager to see results as you!

Well then sit tight and wait for all the results to be posted in a new thread.
p.s. Please learn to spell my name correctly...1st time it was cute,now its getting annoying.


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Well then sit tight and wait for all the results to be posted in a new thread.
p.s. Please learn to spell my name correctly...1st time it was cute,now its getting annoying.









say what iamsam?


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (carbide01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbide01* »_
say what iamsam?

Oh snap!
(grabs popcorn and







)


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Just picked up the hypertune bp, apr bp, abd sp, and 007 bp from the flowbench... and i must say..........................................

the plot thickens









Can I assume you dropped off the others (mine) today and they will be picked up sometime late this week...to be returned.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
Can I assume you dropped off the others (mine) today and they will be picked up sometime late this week...to be returned.

No, I have yours and the Dahlback mani. There's been a shipping mishap/delay with the RMR mani so I was waiting on it before I dropped off the others along with the OEM big port. Regardless, yours will be dropped off by this weekend and tested next week. If this is a problem (I know you're eager for return due to your new ECU arrival) let me know and we'll expedite. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Yeah, sorry. Your PM popped up after I posted. I am alright with the schedule. It must be easier to have a few to do at a time. I am out-of-town the week of the 11th on Business s won't be able to do anything with it until the next week so getting it back in the week of the 18th will be great.
Oh and a general question to the parts hounds out there. Does anyone know where I can buy a large port heat insultating gasket for the intake to head connection. i have seen them in the past and thought they worked well but can't figure out where to buy one.


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_Does anyone know where I can buy a large port heat insultating gasket for the intake to head connection.

NewSouth Performance Powergasket Plus AEB version. I got one for like $60


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
Sorry had to








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









you ain't from around here are ya, fellar?


----------



## Durbo20vT (Apr 30, 2006)

getting more interesting...


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_
NewSouth Performance Powergasket Plus AEB version. I got one for like $60

There on the web? Thanks by the way! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Never mind that was too easy thanks a bunch!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
Oh and a general question to the parts hounds out there. Does anyone know where I can buy a large port heat insultating gasket for the intake to head connection. i have seen them in the past and thought they worked well but can't figure out where to buy one.

USRT gots'm in stock. Just let me know how I may be of assistance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

Werent the NewSouth ones the ones that were melting etc? I was under the impression that the Evoshield was the one to get.....


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (carbide01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbide01* »_Werent the NewSouth ones the ones that were melting etc? I was under the impression that the Evoshield was the one to get..... 

The new ones from newsouth are much better. I've had it on our jetta for 30k no problems..


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
The new ones from newsouth are much better. I've had it on our jetta for 30k no problems.. 

have you taken the the manifold off?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
have you taken the the manifold off?

I would hope so, otherwise that gasket is in the wrong place...


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
have you taken the the manifold off?
, recently no but it was on my car for 5k miles but i ported my head so i couldn't use it


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_, recently no but it was on my car for 5k miles but i ported my head so i couldn't use it

how do you know how well it's performing now after the 30k if you haven't looked at it since 5K on your motor? just curious...


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
how do you know how well it's performing now after the 30k if you haven't looked at it since 5K on your motor? just curious...

I can guess. The car is still running and there is no melting smell. That's a guess of course.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
I can guess. The car is still running and there is no melting smell. That's a guess of course.

Thrust me its still good, car runs good, boosts fine.. Im putting a tranny in it but i will check to make sure.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_
Thrust me its still good, car runs good, boosts fine.. Im putting a tranny in it but i will check to make sure.

all I am saying is that my original one was warped and boosted just fine...


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

Cool with me. LMK as I need a couple.


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

my old style new south performance one was really jacked up... i've still got it sitting downstairs because i was going to post it up... but if they changed the design i guess it's different.
I bought the $100 evo heatshield and have been happy w/ the purchase... it's very robust and has been fine on the car so far. (AEB size too)


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*

Yeah the new ones are much better


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_Cool with me. LMK as I need a couple.

just make sure to buy the one that isn't white...the black ones are actually made of phenol not some plastic crap


----------



## cerwin69 (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: (18T_BT)*

I've have my *********** gasket in my car for over 90k miles.. It's been removed several times. Appears to be fine, with not melting..


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (cerwin69)*

So after looking at pics of the longitudinal 007 manifold it just looks better to me design/flow wise. Is there going to be a flow comparison between the transverse & longitudinal versions? Any reason we can't run the longitudinal version on a transverse setup? Besides having to fab up a pipe from the intercooler to TB. 


























_Modified by skydaman at 7:05 PM 2-7-2007_


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (skydaman)*

That looks trick. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## QU1KGTI (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_So after looking at pics of the longitudinal 007 manifold it just looks better to me design/flow wise. Is there going to be a flow comparison between the transverse & longitudinal versions? Any reason we can't run the longitudinal version on a transverse setup? Besides having to fab up a pipe from the intercooler to TB. 


my guess would be, that because of the location of the throttle body, that there would be fitment issues with fitting the intake manifold/throttlebody combo in between the block and the radiator/fans etc


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (skydaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skydaman* »_So after looking at pics of the longitudinal 007 manifold it just looks better to me design/flow wise. Is there going to be a flow comparison between the transverse & longitudinal versions? Any reason we can't run the longitudinal version on a transverse setup? Besides having to fab up a pipe from the intercooler to TB. 

























_Modified by skydaman at 7:05 PM 2-7-2007_

The throttle body would be in the radiator


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

yup


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (carbide01)*

So, what's the latest status of the testing, gents?


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_The throttle body would be in the radiator

What if you put a gentle turn towards the passenger side fender where the TB mounts? Just seems like a better design to me, but what do I know. Guess we'll see which one flows more in a few weeks.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

Any Teaser Data?


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (enginerd)*

x2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (inivid)*

x3


----------



## Durbo20vT (Apr 30, 2006)

x11


----------



## solowb5 (Jan 16, 2007)

i want that manifold so bad!


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_x3









x5 I meant 12 or was it 4...


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (Kiddo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kiddo* »_
x5 I meant 12 or was it 4...


I'll just do a '+1'...


----------



## 1.8TRabbit (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_its dual plenum and slotted joiner... same as I used to run, except I cant see internal radius airhorns.
previous mani here>
























007mani and R32 t'body gained 30bhp over this one on stock t'body

Whats the gains of having a slotted joiner?


----------



## 1.8TRabbit (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_BTW - Here is a pre-development design sim I was playing around with almost a year ago @ 18 psi & 25 psi with a turbo flowing around 54lbs

























Someone please explain this to me?
What exactly is good or bad about static pressure?


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (1.8TRabbit)*

the idea is equal cylinder filling from the slot.
the cross sectional area of the slot matches the throttle body area, in a cone primary plenum, filling the main plenum (hopefully) equally.
that said, this compared to my new 007 mani with its larger 75mm throttle body has yielded 30bhp more and 20lbft more than this dual plenum.


----------



## 1.8TRabbit (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_the idea is equal cylinder filling from the slot.
the cross sectional area of the slot matches the throttle body area, in a cone primary plenum, filling the main plenum (hopefully) equally.
that said, this compared to my new 007 mani with its larger 75mm throttle body has yielded 30bhp more and 20lbft more than this dual plenum.

so its just a chart showing the air pressure flow in this particular mani?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (1.8TRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TRabbit* »_so its just a chart showing the air pressure flow in this particular mani?

yes, but you want to make sure that the air pressure/flow is disperesed evenly once it starts to enter the runners!


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Progress report?
A little birdie told me the APR manifold was not #1.

I would suggest making a new thread with the results. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (GT-ER)*

yeah the new thread thing was covered, the new thread will be added to the faq.


----------



## solowb5 (Jan 16, 2007)

can we post link it to that thread from this one?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (solowb5)*

There is no new thread yet. Testing is getting near completion.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

I'm just getting ready to start making the BF! intake in the next few weeks.Is there still time to get in on this?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Here is what the 2.2L 007 Cast A4 Long. Intake Manifold Plenum looks like thus far


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_I'm just getting ready to start making the BF! intake in the next few weeks.Is there still time to get in on this?

If you hurry.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
If you hurry. 

Did we drop off any manis for testing this week?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
Did we drop off any manis for testing this week?

Yup.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_
Yup. 

which ones?


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
which ones?

OEM big port, Dahlback, RMR, and Variant's Homebrew.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Sweet... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*

when do we expect to have the results? By the end of the week or the week after? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

2 weekz......


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (carbide01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbide01* »_2 weekz......


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (Kiddo)*

lmao


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

but i want it know!!!


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

I'm eager to see the RMR results....got my fingers crossed


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_I'm eager to see the RMR results....got my fingers crossed









bah.. i just wanna see the abd


----------



## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Here is what the 2.2L 007 Cast A4 Long. Intake Manifold Plenum looks like thus far

















Looking good!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_I'm eager to see the RMR results....got my fingers crossed









So do I since I own the tested one


----------



## Kiddo (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: (bwell01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwell01* »_bah.. i just wanna see the abd









ditto.


----------



## Tetzuoe (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Kiddo)*

anyone know stuff about working with that pre resoned carbon fiber? you have to bake it at like 180 degrees right? (powder coating oven is starting to look tempting)... are there special types to handle the pressure/heat?


----------



## zemun2 (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Here is what the 2.2L 007 Cast A4 Long. Intake Manifold Plenum looks like thus far


















Don,
What material is it cast out of?
How much does it weigh?
TIA


----------



## zemun2 (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

Thank you sir,
One more Q. Will it work with stock TB?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (zemun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zemun2* »_Thank you sir,
One more Q. Will it work with stock TB?

the flange can be designed for any TB, but utilizing a larger will only benefit you and this application...


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

any updates?


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (screwball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *screwball* »_any updates?


I should be able to pick up the manis within a day or three from CPC. At that point we will finish plotting the data and post it. Unless of course USRT or BF! will be able to get us something quickly...


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*

Pick them up and ship them back to their respective owners, right...? I am hoping to use mine next saturday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_At that point we will finish plotting the data and post it. Unless of course USRT or BF! will be able to get us something quickly...

This party may be over by the time we get there. (sigh) We have a prototype put together now, but we haven't tested or tuned it, yet. We could probably send it in if it's understood that it's a pre-production piece. (drumming fingers...)


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
This party may be over by the time we get there. (sigh) We have a prototype put together now, but we haven't tested or tuned it, yet. We could probably send it in if it's understood that it's a pre-production piece. (drumming fingers...)


We have one thats partially done and needs the same testing.Maybe we could send one in after the test and have the testing done at the same place?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
We have one thats partially done and needs the same testing.Maybe we could send one in after the test and have the testing done at the same place?

Sounds good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_Pick them up and ship them back to their respective owners, right...? I am hoping to use mine next saturday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

the 24th? Honestly, thats pushing it for the timeframe they gave me. but i will do everything in my power to get it to you for this saturday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
the 24th? Honestly, thats pushing it for the timeframe they gave me. but i will do everything in my power to get it to you for this saturday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Not that big of a deal but if it can happen I'd appreciate it. If not theis always the next weekend.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_rumor has it that Don & 007 got a winner.My only concern is how the Lehman manifold performed.

fram dat... ABD ALL THE WAY


----------



## SAGTI (May 14, 2006)

This is truly great. Props to all the guys who have made this happen http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Am I right in thinking this is the first time something like this has been done on the tex? Awesome.
I have a quick question - anyone know what a 1.8T head can flow? I was just thinking there must be a point where it makes no difference how much better the intake mani is. I understand that it would obviously make a difference as to how the mani provides the air entering the head.
I realize that this is not the point of this test, but can someone school me?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (SAGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAGTI* »_This is truly great. Props to all the guys who have made this happen http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Am I right in thinking this is the first time something like this has been done on the tex? Awesome.
I have a quick question - anyone know what a 1.8T head can flow? I was just thinking there must be a point where it makes no difference how much better the intake mani is. I understand that it would obviously make a difference as to how the mani provides the air entering the head.
I realize that this is not the point of this test, but can someone school me?

Careful they are very sensitive about questioning their test


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

when are the results going to be posted?
as for head flows and capacity...
had a call following the autosports show here in Jan.. from a head flowing company. (CNC machiend heads) and they have now completed their tests on both smallport and largeport heads. Largeport being deemed ok to 500bhp level on std valves, then exhaust valves being said as the ones to change, not intake. Interesting input that I have not come across. comment was larger intake valves shroud each other, exhausts would be the ones to upgrade for >500bhp level.
Mighty expensive heads tho.


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (badger5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badger5* »_when are the results going to be posted?
as for head flows and capacity...
had a call following the autosports show here in Jan.. from a head flowing company. (CNC machiend heads) and they have now completed their tests on both smallport and largeport heads. Largeport being deemed ok to 500bhp level on std valves, then exhaust valves being said as the ones to change, not intake. Interesting input that I have not come across. comment was larger intake valves shroud each other, exhausts would be the ones to upgrade for >500bhp level.
Mighty expensive heads tho.









what about the small port? 
you can get supertech inconel exhaust valves for ~$200 for all 8.


----------



## SAGTI (May 14, 2006)

*Slappynuts*

Well that is certainly not what I was trying to do.
Some guys might have their heads ported and gas flowed, some may add cams, in which case it would be worth paying more for an intake mani that flows more. 
Either way, the information found about the manifolds will be invaluable to someone trying to make a choice.
I know next to nothing compared to these guys about this stuff, so I am looking to learn something here!


_Modified by SAGTI at 4:37 AM 2-20-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
Careful they are very sensitive about questioning their test









No, we're not. We just think it has more merit than you do.







Of course, if the head can't flow what the mani does, it doesn't matter, but the mani's ability to flow is still indicative of a relative amount of restriction. From what we're seeing, OEM mani's definitely are a restriction on a stock head. That said, the tests will give a relative idea of what each mani is capable of. Obviously if you're power goals are more than what a mani can flow, it's not the best mani for your choice. The problem is the flowrates are a set level of vacuum, not boost/positive pressure so it's tough to correlate what the setup will flow on a motor. I have a diassembled worn out small port head and a big port with busted valves. If both were in good condition, we would have tested each mani on the head with the valves open to the max lift of stock cams, but this isn't a perfect world. Regardless, we're close to being finished so stay tuned.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (SAGTI)*

I think somewhere in this thread is a link with some flow numbers for the head.
If I remember correctly the intake ports on a small head are 170 each, 195 on large port. The important thing to comment though is that with either one port/polish will lead to great improvements on flow. 20-30% increase. So taking a large port ported/polished I think was around the area of 230-240. Do not remember the exact numbers but someone sure has a link from the test somewhere.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (chaugner)*

Wolks Wagon's test data of small and big port heads.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
what about the small port? 
you can get supertech inconel exhaust valves for ~$200 for all 8.









they did'nt mention smallport predicted bhp max. I can ask them for more info.
supertech do larger exhaust valves?
I run their valvegear in my motor. (inconel ex valves, one piece stainless intakes, and their race springs, Ti retainers etc)


----------



## SAGTI (May 14, 2006)

Is the green line ported?
So is it true to say that you would actually need a manifold that flowed more than the head to achieve its max flow. For example a head which can flow 200cfm and a mani that can flow 200cfm will flow somewhat less than 200 cfm when put together? Or am I way off?


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (efterZ)*

not that it matters much, as they no longer (?) make the mani's, but i have a JBE Racing intake i could send. although it would probably only benefit my knowledge of its characteristics.....
this is alot of info for one to digest.....


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*

DAMN.. interest in this thread seems to be dieing quickly. bump for renewed interest about the results. and bump for finally (soon i hope) shedding some light on the abd intake. i am so close to just buying the damn thing and heading to the dyno. i know someone that just got a polished one and is waiting on injector seats then we will know if the thing shows gains on BT cars cuz im sure it'll be posted here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (bwell01)*

I know nobody wants to hear this,but the tests only show half of the story.Are we going to be getting dyno info?This with the flow tests will show something.It will however only represent something for the specific hardware in the test.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_I know nobody wants to hear this,but the tests only show half of the story.Are we going to be getting dyno info?This with the flow tests will show something.It will however only represent something for the specific hardware in the test.

This issue was recognized like 20 pages ago and has been brought up over a dozen times since. Several of those times were by you if I'm not mistaken. Did you have anything more to add or were you going to keep talking about how the test isn't a complete one?
Here's an idea, stop $hitting in our cereal and organize the other half of this test.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
This issue was recognized like 20 pages ago and has been brought up over a dozen times since. Several of those times were by you if I'm not mistaken. Did you have anything more to add or were you going to keep talking about how the test isn't a complete one?
Here's an idea, stop $hitting in our cereal and organize the other half of this test.

Are all manifolds bolt on to same hardware (exept with R32 Tb?)
Would be cool to change em strapped down on same dyno http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Are all manifolds bolt on to same hardware (exept with R32 Tb?)
Would be cool to change em strapped down on same dyno http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

hell.. even doing MAF and boost logs would be useful.. no need to spend money on the dyno to give a very similar result..


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (transient_analysis)*

Once again, we can't dyno the intakes due to different port sizes, different IC setups, and different throttle locations. I had purchased an S4 throttle in hopes it would fit the APR manifold since my R32 didn't, but that didn't work out. The RMR mani doesn't accept an OEM throttle. The Hypertune didn't even have a throttle flange on it. Silvercar's setup is passenger throttle and small port, so he couldn't dyno the Dahlback. Basically, we could have dynoed stock small port, 007 small port, and ABD, and that's it. Throw in the fact that all these manifolds are borrowed, and people want them back, it's just not feasible, not to mention the cost of renting a dyno for a day. YES, FOR THE 187TH TIME, WE KNOW THAT FLOWBENCHING ISN'T DEFINITE IN TERMS OF WHICH IS THE BEST MANIFOLD, BUT IT'S A START. If you don't have anything else to contribute, then quit repeating yourself. We're hoping the last four manifolds will be done today and then the data will be released in a new thread. Thanks to all that contributed and thanks for the continued interest and support.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

did you guys throw on a restrictor plate on the hypertune to simulate the throttle opening? Even a piece of cardboard would do the trick. Having a 3" open hole is going to give odd results.


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (enginerd)*

It was smaller than 3", and yes a fixture was made.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (SAGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAGTI* »_Is the green line ported?
So is it true to say that you would actually need a manifold that flowed more than the head to achieve its max flow. For example a head which can flow 200cfm and a mani that can flow 200cfm will flow somewhat less than 200 cfm when put together? Or am I way off?

The pressure drops in a system all add up. 
If they flow a head at 28" and the head flows 200 cfm, and then they flow a mani at 28 inches and the mani flows 200 cfm, then the pressure drop through the manifold and the head at 200 CFM = 28" + 28" = 56" Of pressure drop. 
If the mani flows 800 CFM, then the pressure drop for the mani + head @ 200 CFM = 28" + XX". You don't really know what the pressure drop will be at 200 cfm, you just know it will be lower. So everything else being equal a mani that flows 600 cfm @ 28" is not as good as one that flows 800 cfm @ 28". 
The testing is more for comparison than any real world calculations. There are ways to model and engines efficiency, and the pressure drop through the manifold is one input, but it is 100X more complicated than this test. 
An engine during the intake stroke is far more complicated than a certain CFM flowing into the cylinder. 
At the beginning of the intake stroke the combustion chamber is very small ~50cc and it is filled with leftover exhaust gas could be as high as 2X the boost pressure depending on your RPM, turbine size/backpressure from the turbo, and potential exhaust scavenging. 
As the piston descends pressure drops in the combustion chamber and the valves begin to open. The pressure drop across the valves is a function of manifold pressure minus pressure drop across the manifold (based on the instantaneous flow rate which we haven't calculated yet) and the instantaneous cylinder pressure. But the cylinder pressure is a calculation based on what is flowing into it. Typical chicken before the egg situation. 
So to properly model this you would use an interative model that runs the calculations thousands or hundreds of thousands of times till it all converges at a single solution. 
For a crude model you would model it vs degrees of rotation 
you would need cylinder head flow at each degree of rotation (lift) and flow vs pressure curves at each of these lift points. So now you have Flow Vs pressure Vs lift, and that's just the cylinder head. 
next you model the combustion chamber based on the bore/stroke, and the piston speed, initial exhaust leftover backpressure. 
The manifold is the easiest part to model because it is just pressure vs flow. 
But then I said this is a crude model, which does not include the intake reversion, and resonance that occurs. This causes the pressure at the backside of the intake valve to pulsate, and throws off the pressure drop calculation at certain RPM's. Oh yeah and this is only for 1 cylinder, and does not include the interactions of the cylinders, and the rapid drops in manifold pressure that occur. 
So you see how ugly this is. Yes, i think many of us realize this is just a very small part of a very complicated system, but knowing how things compare is still going to give us some worthwhile information. We are not trying to model an engine here but learn about a component. It's sure better than wild ass guesses about flow, and alot cheaper than dyno testing the variety of combinations. 





_Modified by enginerd at 2:44 PM 2-23-2007_


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

I have heard the results of the first set and i'm not too suprised


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_I have heard the results of the first set and i'm not too suprised

ABD > all?
Or was ABD in the second set?


----------



## SAGTI (May 14, 2006)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_
The pressure drops in a system all add up. 
If they flow a head at 28" and the head flows 200 cfm, and then they flow a mani at 28 inches and the mani flows 200 cfm, then the pressure drop through the manifold and the head at 200 CFM = 28" + 28" = 56" Of pressure drop. 
If the mani flows 800 CFM, then the pressure drop for the mani + head @ 200 CFM = 28" + XX". You don't really know what the pressure drop will be at 200 cfm, you just know it will be lower. So everything else being equal a mani that flows 600 cfm @ 28" is not as good as one that flows 800 cfm @ 28". 
The testing is more for comparison than any real world calculations. There are ways to model and engines efficiency, and the pressure drop through the manifold is one input, but it is 100X more complicated than this test. 
An engine during the intake stroke is far more complicated than a certain CFM flowing into the cylinder. 
At the beginning of the intake stroke the combustion chamber is very small ~50cc and it is filled with leftover exhaust gas could be as high as 2X the boost pressure depending on your RPM, turbine size/backpressure from the turbo, and potential exhaust scavenging. 
As the piston descends pressure drops in the combustion chamber and the valves begin to open. The pressure drop across the valves is a function of manifold pressure minus pressure drop across the manifold (based on the instantaneous flow rate which we haven't calculated yet) and the instantaneous cylinder pressure. But the cylinder pressure is a calculation based on what is flowing into it. Typical chicken before the egg situation. 
So to properly model this you would use an interative model that runs the calculations thousands or hundreds of thousands of times till it all converges at a single solution. 
For a crude model you would model it vs degrees of rotation 
you would need cylinder head flow at each degree of rotation (lift) and flow vs pressure curves at each of these lift points. So now you have Flow Vs pressure Vs lift, and that's just the cylinder head. 
next you model the combustion chamber based on the bore/stroke, and the piston speed, initial exhaust leftover backpressure. 
The manifold is the easiest part to model because it is just pressure vs flow. 
But then I said this is a crude model, which does not include the intake reversion, and resonance that occurs. This causes the pressure at the backside of the intake valve to pulsate, and throws off the pressure drop calculation at certain RPM's. Oh yeah and this is only for 1 cylinder, and does not include the interactions of the cylinders, and the rapid drops in manifold pressure that occur. 
So you see how ugly this is. Yes, i think many of us realize this is just a very small part of a very complicated system, but knowing how things compare is still going to give us some worthwhile information. We are not trying to model an engine here but learn about a component. It's sure better than wild ass guesses about flow, and alot cheaper than dyno testing the variety of combinations. 

_Modified by enginerd at 2:44 PM 2-23-2007_

Thanks for all that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Sounds like it is much like we have in the audio world! A bigger port in a bass reflex system will not give better results, it has to flow enough air as well as have the correct length, area and box volume! It is always a problem to tune correctly with high power systems with space constraints.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
ABD < all?

fixed


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

And the results are in. We'll be typing up and graphing the data along with pics this weekend so look forward to results on Monday sometime. Thanks again to all the contributors and don't blow up my IM's asking for results. I'll be at the beach all weekend so I wont' get them til Monday anyways


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (axlekiller)*

Sweet, looking forward to the post. A big thank you to all the people who donated manifolds, money and those responsible for the test.


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_And the results are in. We'll be typing up and graphing the data along with pics this weekend so look forward to results on Monday sometime. Thanks again to all the contributors and don't blow up my IM's asking for results. I'll be at the beach all weekend so I wont' get them til Monday anyways









How bout a tracking number for my Mani before you head off for the beach, i am betting I am already too late, but thought i would ask. Or maybe your holding off sending it back cause it's not worth putting back on, lol.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
How bout a tracking number for my Mani before you head off for the beach, i am betting I am already too late, but thought i would ask. Or maybe your holding off sending it back cause it's not worth putting back on, lol.


Its worth putting back on lol... pm sent


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
fixed


Nope.... well. you fixed it incorrectly.

There is so much i want to say right now.... but im holding off. Come monday... itll be alright.








enginerd: the entry of the hypertune is 2.55" at its smallest point, and 2.7 at its largest.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Nope.... well. you fixed it incorrectly.

Are you implying that ABD should change their name to AMD?? (Another Mediocre Design)


----------



## Checkpoynt Charlie (Aug 4, 2004)

Awwwwesome, this is definitely going to be a solid monday


----------



## zemun2 (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Are you implying that ABD should change their name to AMD?? (Another Mediocre Design)
















Like it took this test for you to realize that...


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (zemun2)*

Oh snap I'm pumped!!!


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
Are you implying that ABD should change their name to AMD?? (Another Mediocre Design)
















lol... thats pretty clever


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (zemun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zemun2* »_
Like it took this test for you to realize that...









i think it usually stands for 'another bad design'.... so amd is an upgraded opinion


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

Great to hear!...Thanks guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_
The pressure drops in a system all add up. 
If they flow a head at 28" and the head flows 200 cfm, and then they flow a mani at 28 inches and the mani flows 200 cfm, then the pressure drop through the manifold and the head at 200 CFM = 28" + 28" = 56" Of pressure drop. 
If the mani flows 800 CFM, then the pressure drop for the mani + head @ 200 CFM = 28" + XX". You don't really know what the pressure drop will be at 200 cfm, you just know it will be lower. So everything else being equal a mani that flows 600 cfm @ 28" is not as good as one that flows 800 cfm @ 28". 
The testing is more for comparison than any real world calculations. There are ways to model and engines efficiency, and the pressure drop through the manifold is one input, but it is 100X more complicated than this test. 
An engine during the intake stroke is far more complicated than a certain CFM flowing into the cylinder. 
At the beginning of the intake stroke the combustion chamber is very small ~50cc and it is filled with leftover exhaust gas could be as high as 2X the boost pressure depending on your RPM, turbine size/backpressure from the turbo, and potential exhaust scavenging. 
As the piston descends pressure drops in the combustion chamber and the valves begin to open. The pressure drop across the valves is a function of manifold pressure minus pressure drop across the manifold (based on the instantaneous flow rate which we haven't calculated yet) and the instantaneous cylinder pressure. But the cylinder pressure is a calculation based on what is flowing into it. Typical chicken before the egg situation. 
So to properly model this you would use an interative model that runs the calculations thousands or hundreds of thousands of times till it all converges at a single solution. 
For a crude model you would model it vs degrees of rotation 
you would need cylinder head flow at each degree of rotation (lift) and flow vs pressure curves at each of these lift points. So now you have Flow Vs pressure Vs lift, and that's just the cylinder head. 
next you model the combustion chamber based on the bore/stroke, and the piston speed, initial exhaust leftover backpressure. 
The manifold is the easiest part to model because it is just pressure vs flow. 
But then I said this is a crude model, which does not include the intake reversion, and resonance that occurs. This causes the pressure at the backside of the intake valve to pulsate, and throws off the pressure drop calculation at certain RPM's. Oh yeah and this is only for 1 cylinder, and does not include the interactions of the cylinders, and the rapid drops in manifold pressure that occur. 
So you see how ugly this is. Yes, i think many of us realize this is just a very small part of a very complicated system, but knowing how things compare is still going to give us some worthwhile information. We are not trying to model an engine here but learn about a component. It's sure better than wild ass guesses about flow, and alot cheaper than dyno testing the variety of combinations. 

_Modified by enginerd at 2:44 PM 2-23-2007_

If the only factor wat flow then we would just bolt the plenum directly to the head.This is not the way its done for a reason.This would cause a huge velocity differential and it would suck.It would however win this test.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_
There is so much i want to say right now.... but im holding off. Come monday... itll be alright.









Just spill the beans as to the order of how the manifolds did (i.e. The lehman manifold).Put the test data in another thread but I think 5 weeks is long enough waiting time.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Just spill the beans as to the order of how the manifolds did (i.e. The lehman manifold).Put the test data in another thread but I think 5 weeks is long enough waiting time.









that would be lovely but i doubt its gonna happen. i just need to know if the abd is worth buying. i can get my hands on one easily and thats why im so inclined to know about it.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
Hey, it's ok for them to hold off on the results when some/all of the funds used to pay for the test have come from other parties. I know I wouldn't post the results right away if I were running the test, I'd rather go to the beach or something







It's not important to get the results out to those who paid for them http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I know this post may be soemwhat of an attack, but when I read that axlekiiler would be spending the weekend at the beach instead of posting the results that I and several others helped pay for, I got just a little ticked off. 

_Modified by SloJTI at 8:03 AM 2-24-2007_


Oh, boo-frickin-hoo. Youve been pestering both of us (and even trying to trick us) into giving you the flow numbers early. like you cant wait another 48 hrs







Im sorry if you feel like you got ripped off somehow... lord know how though??!!
Wizard: the only problem with ranking them here is that there really isnt any ranking to do. the test data isnt going to be displayed in a best to worst fashion anyways. We have numbers for flow by runner, and overall flow. so to list one without the other is useless. ANd to list both will de-value the flow data post. 
The original plan from the time the test was concieved or any funds were collected, was to collect all of the data first. Then create a new post with graphs, technical explanations, and opinions of the flowbench operators. That is still the plan. Dizzy nor myself have any want to stray from that. If that bothers any of you, except SLOJTI, Im sorry.


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_Oh, boo-frickin-hoo. Youve been pestering both of us (and even trying to trick us) into giving you the flow numbers early. like you cant wait another 48 hrs







Im sorry if you feel like you got ripped off somehow... lord know how though??!!
Wizard: the only problem with ranking them here is that there really isnt any ranking to do. the test data isnt going to be displayed in a best to worst fashion anyways. We have numbers for flow by runner, and overall flow. so to list one without the other is useless. ANd to list both will de-value the flow data post. 
The original plan from the time the test was concieved or any funds were collected, was to collect all of the data first. Then create a new post with graphs, technical explanations, and opinions of the flowbench operators. That is still the plan. Dizzy nor myself have any want to stray from that. If that bothers any of you, except SLOJTI, Im sorry.









48hrs isn't much...SLOJTI hold your horses...you'll find out soon enough


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_Hey, it's ok for them to hold off on the results when some/all of the funds used to pay for the test have come from other parties. I know I wouldn't post the results right away if I were running the test, I'd rather go to the beach or something







It's not important to get the results out to those who paid for them http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I know this post may be soemwhat of an attack, but when I read that axlekiiler would be spending the weekend at the beach instead of posting the results that I and several others helped pay for, I just got a little ticked off.

Look people before this gets going any further. Everyone Please Relax a little. Everyone involved has a full time job and or Full time School and also, has done all of the work.
The monies donated do not mean they now work for you. They mean the test can actually get done. Without the monies there is no test.
Let's try something new. Let's not make this look like a bunch of 13 year olds complaining about when the new secret codes to mario brothers is gonna get published and have a little patients.


_Modified by VariantStg3 at 9:24 AM 2-24-2007_


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_It's not a matter of time dude.....lol...it's the fact that they have better things to do like go to the beach instead of posting results. Really not a huge deal, but..............

if it's not a huge deal, then stop posting/asking...a few hours ain't gonna kill ya man...I paid just like you, maybe even more and I don't mind waiting


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
Hey, it's ok for them to hold off on the results when some/all of the funds used to pay for the test have come from other parties. I know I wouldn't post the results right away if I were running the test, I'd rather go to the beach or something







It's not important to get the results out to those who paid for them http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


wow just wow. Please let me know how much you have paypal'ed so I can get you your money back for the crying. I mean W T F ... I honestly do not even know what to say to such a comment. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif to being a real a$$


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
It's not a matter of time dude.....lol...it's the fact that they have better things to do like go to the beach instead of posting results. Really not a huge deal, but..............

as much as i like giving dizzy a hard time, there really is life outside of vortex. prior commitments, etc. he could have had this vacation planned around the same time he decided to perform evaluations of ANY manifolds, and prolly never saw how big this testing would become. if thats the case, he prolly would have expected to release the results 3 weeks ago if it were only the original 5 manis he had planned. go build you car, and get offline anyhow ya stinky bastige.










_Modified by mirror at 6:33 AM 2-24-2007_


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
What I don't understand is why, when the results are avail, and our money was used to help get those results, they are not posted asap. Instead, let's go to the beach









what amazes me is that you actually think you have a point and a valid argument.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_
Right, they are not a company who perform services. They are 2 guys doing a favor to the community by getting the test done a posting the results. However, if you and I dontate monies to those parties in control of the test and posting the resutls, shouldn't we get the results as soon as they are avail? I understand the reason they waited to post results of all the mani's together. What I don't understand is why, when the results are avail, and our money was used to help get those results, they are not posted asap. Instead, let's go to the beach










Because the results arent available. there is still work to be done. we have all of the data and are working with it. Hell, he will be working on Excel files while hes at the beach with his lady so that we can have some nice charts to look at.
Do you not realize that when you talk into yuor computer that there are 250,000 PEOPLE with LIVES on the other end? 
And NO. your argument sucks! you want the data to know if the RMR is worth buying. yuo cant buy an RMR on saturday or sunday. even if you could, you could you couldnt have it on monday. So chill, and even if yuo cant be chill, maybe you can just stop bitching for a day or 2 and keep the thread clean at least.








PS. no need for another pm. you know what you did.


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*

Well, since I seemed to piss of the world, I'll just go back and erase all my posts in this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VariantStg3 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (SloJTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SloJTI* »_Well, since I seemed to piss of the world, I'll just go back and erase all my posts in this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Look man, the point is if Axlekiller had posted that he was going to be slaving away at the computer getting the results ready and didn't mention the beach you would be much more apperciative and also lied to. 
Instead he was honest about the timeline and you turned on the dude like he was personally keeping you from your data. You turned into a "textass" all at once. Don't delete your posts, that's like taking you ball and going home.


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (VariantStg3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VariantStg3* »_
Look man, the point is if Axlekiller had posted that he was going to be slaving away at the computer getting the results ready and didn't mention the beach you would be much more apperciative and also lied to. 
Instead he was honest about the timeline and you turned on the dude like he was personally keeping you from your data. You turned into a "textass" all at once. Don't delete your posts, that's like taking you ball and going home.

Posts already deleted. I don't want/need to be blacklisted









Like I told silvercar, all I wanted was the results to the small port mani's. If these were posted or given to me, I would have never said a word. I don't care if the results are posted or not, I just want info about the small port mani's so I can be on my way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by SloJTI at 9:15 AM 2-24-2007_


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (SloJTI)*

Wow. All this because there wasn't wireless to steal last time I stayed in this condo. Well now someone has wireless.







I'm working on displaying the data in relevant graphs and will send to silvercar so he can add the comments of the flowbench operator. So quit your bitching and hold on.


----------



## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Wow. All this because there wasn't wireless to steal last time I stayed in this condo. Well now someone has wireless.







I'm working on displaying the data in relevant graphs and will send to silvercar so he can add the comments of the flowbench operator. So quit your bitching and hold on.









Dizzy go get drunk and pass out on the beach with ur chic...F the rest of us.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*

The results aren't going to affect your life. I alreaday have the RMR mani. I'm not going to get ride of it becaus ethe graph shows it not the best flow


----------



## turbotuner20V (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (VRT)*

no **** adam... get the hell out there and get some sun, booze and ass for me while i'm stuck in cold rainy kansas.
sloguy, Just because you chip in a few bucks to help with a test that your donation probably hardly put a dent in doesn't mean you now own that person and they need to do your bidding.
i can't believe that was even posted... it seems fairly obvious that the people involved in this test are doing a fine job of testing and displaying the data in a well-prepared manner in a reasonable time frame.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (VRT)*

wow.. i went to sleep and it turned to rumble in the jungle. the beach comment was a great way to bring interest to the thread lol. but i agree that its ok to wait til monday. i donated and dont think 48 hours is unreasonable considering that yes the testers really didnt have to do this for our community, they do have lifes and children and girlfriends and or wives, they arent bums and do have jobs and or are in school. so ppl lay off give them time to get it done right and stop being slave drivers.
/end of fighting


----------



## SloJTI (Oct 29, 2005)

*Re: (bwell01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwell01* »_/end of fighting 

x2...I was done hours ago and even retracted all of my statements.


----------



## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (turbotuner20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbotuner20V* »_no **** adam... get the hell out there and get some sun, booze and ass for me while i'm stuck in cold rainy kansas.

x2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 







haha seriously, go enjoy brutha! the weather here in iraq sucks balls. i'm sick of rain and mud. i'm ready for 150 degree summer and drinking 8 bottles of h2o per day.







i mean, it can't be any worse than the last time i was here, right?







go enjoy, adam, so i can live vicariously through you.








btw, i'm pretty stoked for the results. thanks so much for doing this guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
































_Modified by inivid at 11:47 AM 2-24-2007_


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_Dizzy go get drunk and pass out on the beach with ur chic...F the rest of us.









LMAO...
I agree with everyone else... Even I chipped in with some money to help out but I can agree that this is something to simply help the community out. I'm sure everyone itching to buy a manifold can wait a few more days before making a decision. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Dizzy... take your time.... but take it quickly and hurry up.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
there really is life outside of vortex. 

Where?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (TooLFan46n2)*


























_Modified by slappynuts at 7:28 PM 2-24-2007_


















_Modified by slappynuts at 8:08 PM 2-24-2007_


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

what are your plans for the throttle plate and the end cap? and what throttle will it be made for?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_what are your plans for the throttle plate and the end cap? and what throttle will it be made for?

Its a prototype so we will see.This is why I was dissapointed by you guys having the test now and not a few weeks later.
I can tell you that I have upped the resonant rpm by 1000rpm.The flow should be equal to any manifold that uses tubing that matches(+ a little) the intake port on a AEB head.The reason you dont want to flow waaay more than the head flows is because then you get a large velocity change and that will hurt performance.I chose my runner size by what I thought could be flowed by a great head and not too much to create the velocity porblem that I was speaking of.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

Looks like nice beefy construction on that plenum. 4" sch 5 or sc10 or something? 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_Looks like nice beefy construction on that plenum. 4" sch 5 or sc10 or something? 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Its sch 10.I have seen enough failures by people using thin material from fatigue that I will not make this mistake.4" and is just over 2l..


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Yes I saw quite some time ago people were using .060" thick runners and other stuff about that thin. A little quick pressure vessel math and this is clearly low for a high cycle application, unless you want to screw around with re-heat treating things after your done welding... Anyways, like you said... the results can be found via search. 
Thats why I commented with the http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif about the thick material and also why I like the big cast plenums on the 007 manifolds.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_Yes I saw quite some time ago people were using .060" thick runners and other stuff about that thin. A little quick pressure vessel math and this is clearly low for a high cycle application, unless you want to screw around with re-heat treating things after your done welding... Anyways, like you said... the results can be found via search. 
Thats why I commented with the http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif about the thick material and also why I like the big cast plenums on the 007 manifolds. 

I have also seen alot of the things you research online and I know what you think.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_Yes I saw quite some time ago people were using .060" thick runners and other stuff about that thin. A little quick pressure vessel math and this is clearly low for a high cycle application, unless you want to screw around with re-heat treating things after your done welding... Anyways, like you said... the results can be found via search. 
Thats why I commented with the http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif about the thick material and also why I like the big cast plenums on the 007 manifolds. 

the hypertune plenum is only a .062 wall


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

Yea, I saw that in some pictures. Its a really nice hydroformed piece, but thiiiiin.


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

yeah. i didnt really understand why they built the lowers out of some nice beefy stuff and then skinnyed it down on the plenum.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: (silvercar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silvercar* »_yeah. i didnt really understand why they built the lowers out of some nice beefy stuff and then skinnyed it down on the plenum.

My guess is they were hell bent on going with a hydroformed or stamped piece because cast would be a bit scruffy looking welded onto the rest of that billet piece. Cost gets up there pretty fast if you start talking about stamping / hydroforming thick stuff.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
My guess is they were hell bent on going with a hydroformed or stamped piece because cast would be a bit scruffy looking welded onto the rest of that billet piece. Cost gets up there pretty fast if you start talking about stamping / hydroforming thick stuff. 

It would be real easy to cut the materials cost in half,but we are here for the long haul


----------



## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_

























_Modified by slappynuts at 7:28 PM 2-24-2007_

















_Modified by slappynuts at 8:08 PM 2-24-2007_

looks good chuck. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silvercar (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
My guess is they were hell bent on going with a hydroformed or stamped piece because cast would be a bit scruffy looking welded onto the rest of that billet piece. Cost gets up there pretty fast if you start talking about stamping / hydroforming thick stuff. 

Haha. I didnt really want to accuse them of being in it for the bling. But thats the only thing i could come up with too. I think some sch 10 tubing with mandrels and pie cuts and crazy robotic tig welds all over the place would look just as pimp. The plenum is kindof strange also in that it tilts downward from the runners. I took quite a few pics of it, hopefully one will show the angle im talking about....


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

Yea i'm familiar with the angle... Thats why I always insisted that the plenum is not, in fact- reversible, as so many people assume because it is bolted on. Well, on an engine dyno it would be, but in the car it wouldn't clear the hood. 
If you do some reading on their web page? Or it may have been F-R 's web page, but they claim the asymetrical plenum is to gain hood clearance while maintaining straight runners. 
Bob has a good pic of the lopsided plenum on http://www.qedpower.com - he has the source / info protected so I can't steal his pic.


----------



## EdsGTI (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

yeah he also has it listed as flipping, takin another closer look at it, your right it should not fit.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (EdsGTI)*


----------



## axlekiller (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (bwell01)*

Results are final.
http://www.elitedubs.com/index....html 
Enjoy. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And thanks to all who made this possible.


----------



## Durbo20vT (Apr 30, 2006)

thx to both of you for takin the time out for this crucial data


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (axlekiller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *axlekiller* »_Results are final.
http://www.elitedubs.com/index....html 
Enjoy. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And thanks to all who made this possible.









Oh sweet! Finally http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Thanks again guys.


----------



## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

Nice rapport!! I really like to see the big effort you guys have put into this!!
I'm happy to have donated a little bit of money to this project!


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

WOW... so the abd mani isnt a total piece of crap. looks like it didnt fall too short of the 007 if im reading things right tha is. im sure we are going to do a dyno of the ABD mani soon. we already have before numbers so after its on we should know what it will do on a 2871r at least. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (bwell01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwell01* »_WOW... so the abd mani isnt a total piece of crap. looks like it didnt fall too short of the 007 if im reading things right tha is. im sure we are going to do a dyno of the ABD mani soon. we already have before numbers so after its on we should know what it will do on a 2871r at least. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

considering that the ABD manifold used a stock TB and the 007 used a VR6 one, I'd say they are probably closer to = then anything else...


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
considering that the ABD manifold used a stock TB and the 007 used a VR6 one, I'd say they are probably closer to = then anything else...

Perhaps, but under dynamic conditions the 007 would outperform the ABD. The 007 would yield an increase in more trq over the ABD.


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

guys this was a very successful test for simple flow numbers. thank all that made this happen. we are looking forward to more things like this to come. you guys should post pricings of all the mani's involved. im getting ready to do a purchase vry soon


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (bwell01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwell01* »_guys this was a very successful test for simple flow numbers. thank all that made this happen. we are looking forward to more things like this to come. you guys should post pricings of all the mani's involved. im getting ready to do a purchase vry soon









You can post your further inquires over on Elite so not to violate VMAG advertising rules http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
You can post your further inquires over on Elite so not to violate VMAG advertising rules http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yeah i just registered... some of the vortex rules suxballzorzmg


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_Perhaps, but under dynamic conditions the 007 would outperform the ABD. The 007 would yield an increase in more trq over the ABD.

perhaps the 007 would yiled an increase in more trq over the ABD, but we have no proof, the only fact we have is static pressure and TB size...and under this test if all things would have been equal I don't see why the ABD mani wouldn't pick up the extre few CFM based on the TB size alone (it's a considerable difference over stock)


----------



## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

Interesting thing to watch. The individual runner flow does not sum up to the overall flow, example: the 007 bigport listed as 790 in overall, but summing up the individual runners = 1016. Are we seeing TB restrictions?


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (18T_BT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T_BT* »_
perhaps the 007 would yiled an increase in more trq over the ABD, but we have no proof, the only fact we have is static pressure and TB size...and under this test if all things would have been equal I don't see why the ABD mani wouldn't pick up the extre few CFM based on the TB size alone (it's a considerable difference over stock)

Not based on the TB but the runner design.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

Were these tests done with TBs inplace?


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (efterZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *efterZ* »_Interesting thing to watch. The individual runner flow does not sum up to the overall flow, example: the 007 bigport listed as 790 in overall, but summing up the individual runners = 1016. Are we seeing TB restrictions? 

I think it's more of the easily compressible nature of air.


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## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

Sorry for posting my question both here and in the results thread, this may cause a lot of cross-writing.
May I suggest continuing all discussions about the test results in that thread


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (efterZ)*

Yea either stu should lock or sticky this in the faqs...def don't need 2 different discussions going on.


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (SAVwKO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SAVwKO* »_Yea either stu should lock or sticky this in the faqs...def don't need 2 different discussions going on.

One way or other discussion on here will infringe on VMG advertising rules.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Don R)*

I'm happy to see that my RMR made the top 4 woohoo








I'm glad to see the 007 made top notch http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Jimmy/Ryan


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_
One way or other discussion on here will infringe on VMG advertising rules.

You really need to stop it with the fearmongering.
The only time VMG advertising policies will go into effect is of a retailer of any of the products posts in a thread as a means to sell their own product.
Don R, you've been warned about this before and yet you continually post things on this site which you personally have a vested interest in.
This thread is done. The results thread will be linked in the FAQ.


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