# MKIV VR6 VRT FAQ - Start Here



## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Greetings,

I wanted to record everything I have learned during my adventures of turbocharging my MKIV GTI VR6 12v.


Introduction
Vacuum Lines, Idle, and Drivability
Oil
Intake Manifold
Turbo, Turbo-Manifold, Wastegate, Downpipe
Coolant
Piping and Fitment
Fuel & Software Management
 Pictures, Pictures, and Pictures
 Datalogging



I also wanted to thank my inspiration WEISS. You made it happen, and as a result you made it feel as though someone such as myself could make it happen.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Introduction*

What is the SCOPE of this? 
To provide those who are completely clueless (Not on how turbo's work, but the process and misc information on how to Turbo-Charge their MKIV VR6 12v)​How to avoid possible downtime with different headaches​
What are the prerequisites of turbo-charging my MKIV VR6 12v than being 
Capable of performing basic repairs on a car​Understanding of how a Turbo-Charged System works. It's not difficult to understand, but you can blow your engine up if something is done wrong.​Good tools​Cash for the Unknowns​(Choose one of three)​Being a good mechanic, being a subject matter expert on your car, or having a friend that does all of this​Having a Daily Driver for a car & a free time​Having good legs and free time.​


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Vacuum Lines, Idle, and Drivability*

What parts on my unmodified MKIV 12v VR6 run on a vacuum?

Link Detection Pump
EVAP SYSTEM
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Secondary Air Injection
Intake Manifold Tuning
Injector AIR Shroud


What parts on my Turbocharged MKIV 12v VR6 run on a vacuum Signal and are required?

Fuel Pressure Regulator
Wastegate
Diverter Valve/ Blow off Valve
Boost Gauge


What Vacuum lines are often removed when turbocharging my MKIV 12v VR6?

Intake Manifold Tuning when running a SRI or going to a MKIII Intake Manifold (The Solenoid is left Plugged in, but no vacuum lines are connected)
Injector AIR Shroud (Only if you're swapping to a MKIII Intake manifold, or going SRI )
Secondary Air Injection (The Solenoid is left plugged in, but the vacuum lines are looped)
The hole is often plugged with either 42DD SAI Block Off Plate, or a 3/4" Freezer Expansion Plug
EVAP system (Requires Check Valve Not critical for achieving maximum performance, but you may get a check engine light)
Link Detection Pump (Not critical for achieving maximum performance, but you may get a check engine light)



How do I connect my WG?

Charge-pipe:* The better way.* This allows you to run a bleeder Style Manual Boost controller and not experience Vacuum leaks.
Intake manifold: Secondary way.* If you don't have a charge-pipe with a nipple, you can T it off from the Intake Manifold, however you may experience a vacuum leak.



Troubleshooting Issues:

Weak Vacuum

Vacuum leaks
Poor vacuum fittings,
Break - Booster
Wastegate
Fuel Pressure Regulator
BOV
Evap Line


Gasket Failure
Lower Intake Manifold
Upper Intake Manifold / SRI
Throttle-Body


Hardware (Stripped/ loose Screws ETC)
Lower Intake Manifold
Upper Intake Manifold / SRI
Throttle-Body





 Fuel Delivery
Incorrect Fuel Pressure Regulator
Dead or Dieing Fuel Pump
Poor Seal on the Injectors
Mismatch in specifications of tune - May reduce vacuum as much as 5-10" Hg esp on Mk4 12v dependent on tuner.
MAF Housing
Injector Size
Fuel Pressure Regulator




Engine
Cams- Seen vacuum reduced as much as 5" Hg as a result of different cams and otherwise identical hardware setup.
Poorly sealing engine/high crank case pressure - Hurt bottom end eg cracked piston, head anomaly.

Timing - Bad timing - Grounded Rail Guides, Bad Bolt Tensioner



Running Lean

Mismatch in specifications of tune(See above for further information)
Fuel pump - Low fuel pressure when demanded (Especially true on WOT)
Failing MAF, MAF Placement, MAF Housing Size incorrect
Vacuum Leaks (See above for more information concerning Vacuum Leaks)
 Bad engine timing (Even if you've never opened your block, you can still have a failed chain tensioner, or disintegrated raul guide making your timing off enough to cause lean issues.)


Running Rich

Leak in Charge Pipe
Running a Higher Spec'd fuel pressure Regulator than normal
BOV
Vacuum Leak on BOV
BOV opening due to vacuum Pressure




Partial Throttle Issues

Turbulence due to MAF Placement (Airflow Straightener will help)


WOT

Lean 
Tune or Flash
Dieing Fuel Pump


Rich


IDLE

Hunting Idle: Using Unisettings / Lemmiwinks, I was able to resolve my hunting idle by changing Channel 13 (Setting 4)


Overheating

 Timing Issues: Bolt Tensioner, Chains, Rail guides (Particularly upper chains, Rails, and Bolt tensioner). If you haven't done these, you're likely causing yourself more issues.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*OIL*

OIL 
What types of OIL Lines do I need to have run, and where are they found? 
OIL Feed​Pulled from OIL Pressure Sensor on top of the OIL Filter Housing​Requires a 3 way TAP (NPT 1/8" Male, NPT 1/8" Female, NPT 1/8" Female)​The OIL Feed Line is normally a -4AN Line with 1/8" NPT Connectors on it.​Make sure to use only Teflon Paste, or Liquid Sealant (No Tape on the Turbo Lines) in order to not choke the turbo!​ 
OIL Return​Normally a -12AN Ran from the Bottom of the Turbocharger to a Welded Bung on an oil pan​Make sure the Turbo is clocked such that the Return line points to the bottom.​For a good seal, it's ok to use Teflon Tape​
Some input from from another member
10AN most common I would agree but the 12AN provides flexibility to go with turbos that tend to have oil backup/poor throughput issues and some that actually spec a comparable diameter in their installation manuals, therefore while might be considered over-kill for most can compensate for other issues. I prefer to use a 12AN on my personal cars even though space constraints sometimes make it a challenge. Working on someone else's car who is not hard pressed either way or has a more reliable turbo - 10AN it is.

When the engine is at IDLE, it's fine, but as I rev the OIL Light comes on.
Broken Sensor or Unplugged Sensor 
Out of Oil​*Make sure you run with an Oil Pressure Gauge. It's a lot cheaper than having to rebuild your bearings because you thought your oil pressure was ok.*

Minimizing restrictions and Angle of return / , 
You want to keep the line as straight and free-flowing as possible. Kinks in the line will cause the turbo to Smoke as oil can get backed up into the turbo line.​
Material to use
Make sure whatever kit your purchase for your Turbo Return Line, it's the end fitting going into the Oil Pan is the same material as what your Oil Pan is made of. MK3 OIL Pans are made of Steel, while MK4 are made of Aluminium​It's better to have your lines custom made. Know what's inside your lines as they can be cheap on the inside (made with plastic) and get destroyed easily.

Turbo Feed Line Helpers
Two common areas of running the feed line are over the top of the engine, and to the side by the transmission. While both setups have been successful, keep in mind that the engine does shift from time to time, and along with it the feed line will shift as well, so be mindful of this your line can be destroyed due to binding.​
Oil Pressure

Oil Rating
More on this later​
Oil Filter
More on this Later​


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Intake Manifold*

What are my options 

Leave it stock and stay under 10 PSI (Hopefully it won't heat cycle to much and break)​Injectors that fit in the MKIV Lower Intake manifold are Shorter than the ones that fit in the MKIII Intake manifold​
SWAP to MKIII Intake Manifold (Requires an adapter for the Throttle body)​If you decide to use the MKIII Intake manifold, make sure you swap in the MKIII Camshafts as well to avoid any issues associated with runner lengths and cam phasing​
SWAP to SRI​Most SRI's require a MKIII Lower intake manifold, and also use 2 metal gaskets (1 For the lower intake manifold, and 1 for the Lower to Upper Intake manifold)​The Complete Swap includes the following​Upper Intake manifold or SRI​Lower intake manifold​7 (Pending Sizes)Bolts to Upper Intake Manifold​10 (Pending Sizes) Bolts to Engine​Fuel Rail​4 Bolts (Pending Bolt Sizes)​Injector Seating Clips (Different than the MKIV Seating Clips)​MKIII Injectors (Very Important, MKIII VR6 Injectors are a different size,)​


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Turbo, Turbo Manifold, Wastegate, and Downpipe*

Turbo, Turbo Manifold, Wastegate, and Downpipe 

What is the largest amount of boost I can run on my %100 un-opened Motor​6 PSI Non-intercooler, and 10 PSI Intercooled​Keep in mind this is just an average and the number can be higher or lower depending on a few things (Compressor Island of Efficiency, Ringlands , Climate, gas quality etc).​
. What's the maximum amount of boost I can run with a head spacer?​Normally 20 PSI, or about 400whp is considered safe.​. Keep in mind, It's largely dependent on a number of things. (Different turbo flow different amounts of air, produce different amounts of torque etc)​

What Turbo should I get?​That's largely dependent for what type of characteristics your looking for. Here is a thread that should help with that (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ics-turbine-A-R-Ratio-Housing-Family-Vr6-(12)​
I can't seem to mount my wastegate on my ATP turbo manifold properly?​It seems to fit best using a F38 to V-Band Adapter so you can arrange it appropriately​
I can't seem to get the bolts on the F38 to V-Band Adapter to fit and allow me to attach my V-Band wastegate.​Purchase Low Profile Hex Bolts and massage the head of the bolt​Button Head Bolts may work better​Failing that, you may be better off getting the flange welded on if that's an option​
I can't get my ATP Dump tube to connect with my wastegate (ATP Manifold, ATP Downpipe,)?​Adding a Turbo Spacer, and V-Band adapter will require a custom modification.​


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Coolant*

Coolant information:

What are the devices that are connected via coolant, and what are the sizes of the lines:​
Overflow Tank
Throttlebody
Heater Core
Thermostat Housing
Radiator
Oil Cooler
Non-Return Valve
Cylinder Block
Cylinder Head
Coolant Distribution Line (Crack Pipe)
Waterpump (Belt Driven)
Secondary Waterpump (Electric)


On MKIV's the Coolant Expansion reservoir is located on the passenger's side of the car, while all the coolant junctions are located on the driver's side housing. This causes an awkward wire to be run underneath the turbo manifold making it less than desirable. Ideally it would be wise to relocate the Expansion tank on the Driver's Side of the car. That way you don't have to worry about the coolant line destroying prematurely

A lot of people by bypass the auxiliary radiator as the current standpoint is "It's only used for heating the windshield wiper fluid reservoir, and it blocks a piping route to the front of the engine. ". The ideal process is the plug, and not loop the lines. This thread explains it in detail here
http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5519498-Secondary-Radiator-delete

To sometimes easy plumbing, people delete the Secondary Electric Water pump, but it doesn't seem to be necessary and may cause more harm than good. It supposed to do two things:

Enable Heat in the AC with the car being off
Allow the Head and the Block to cool after running the car to prevent it from warping
This was taken from http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5233910-aux-water-pump-delete-yay-or-nay
In the VR6 head, exhaust gasses ejected from the bank of cylinders on the intake side have to travel through a greater portion of the head itself before even getting to the exhaust manifolds. Therefore, for 3 of your 6 cylinders, your head is acting as an exhaust manifold itself (in a way) and consequently gets a heck of alot hotter in those areas than it does in others. In order to mitigate the differences in temperatures from those areas of the head to others, the after run pump (or auxiliary pump) continues to cycle the coolant well after shut down. You cannot achieve this to the same degree by simply idling the engine


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Piping and Fitment*

Turbo Inlet (Driver's Side Intake)
On MKIV VR6's the intake comes from the Drivers side
Depending on a few factors of the turbo (Compressor Size, Orientation) You may have issues with the Heater Core Piping, or may have to re-route the coolant reservoir, or delete Auxiliary radiator, or a combination of a few things


Charged air Turbo Outlet -> To Intercooler (Intercooler has opening on each side).
Most setups remove the Auxillary Radiator, and may possibly remove the Windshield Washer fluid. With this done, you will see the pathway to take. Setups typically either go over the engine block, or move the fuel feed/ return lines and go in-between the Power Steering fluid.


Intercooler to Throttle body (Driver's Side) (Intercooler has opening on each side).
If you look where the standard intake is routed, you can see that it comes up from the driver's side head light. So from the intercooler, up to through that hole, to the right behind the battery (away from the bumper), and then bends a 90 toward the throttle body.

Turbo inlet (Passenger's Side Intake)
Checkout Weiss's Configuration. Essentially you're going to have to extend the MAF Connector in the Wiring Harness, and Re-Route the Coolant Expansion Tank to the Driver's Side of the Car.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Fuel & Software management*

Normally there are two main options available: ECU Re-flash & Standalone
ECU re-Flash
-Popular for the beginning and advanced DIY Tuner alike, these are normally conservative tunes that are offered from various Companies like C2Motorsports, United Motorsports, and Unitronic. Different companies will have different Perks (for exampleC2 has a flashing device that allows you to load your flash on the fly, rather than sending it in to them, and they also offer a launch control feature) They come in standard Stages 

Stage I
-Stock Compression supports up to 300 whp
-380cc/ 36# Fuel injectors
-Typically uses larger 95" MAF

Stage II
-Lowered Compression supports up to 400whp
-440cc/ 42# Fuel Injectors & Fuel Pump Kit
-Typically uses Larger 95" MAF

Stage III
-Lowered Compression supports around 500 whp
-630cc/ 60# Fuel injectors & Fuel Pump Kit
-Typically uses larger 95" MAF
*Probably best to build the bottom end, and if not at least replace the rod/ main bearings to more upgraded ones. 

Most of these allow you to delete / plug the SAI units allowing you to get back space in the front of your engine.
Keep in mind that even if they do allow you to delete the SAI, often times you must leave the Solenoid plugged inside or o2 related functions may not work.​

Understanding ECU-Reflashes and their limitations:


Since an ECU Re-Flash still runs on the standard hardware and equipment, they are in essence not really designed to enhance a configuration, nor are the designed to be adaptable to all configurations. In fact they're designed to extend the OEM capabilities of fueling and air metering demands and are thus forth limited by what information they receive on there sensors. Without going standalone, you will have to deal with any limitations due to MAF, and it's important to understand them.

With a MAF based setup, the sensor responsible for metering air (MAF Sensor) has a limited range of functionality based on how much air flow the sensor is subjected to. In order to get into the right spot, the MAF housing size is changed and the computer is appropriately re-calibrated so the car is accurately reading the amount of air going into the engine.

The Standard MAF Housing size is 69.85mm ID (Inner Diameter). Most flashes upgrade this to 95mm ID (Inner Diameter). It's recommended to use a VAG-COM to ensure you're metering the correct amount of air.

Once the correct size on MAF has been utilized, the next step is to determine the proper injectors calibrated for this MAF. Those specifications should be listed inside the flash.

Once MAF Size is correct and you can verify the system your ECU is metering the correct amount of air, along with the correct fuel injector size is reached, the next thing to always double check is your mechanical units (Fuel Pump, Fuel Pressure Regulator). Often times leanness at WOT (Wide open throttle), or at random issues can be caused by either a failing fuel pump, or an incorrectly specified FPR. Keep in mind, since these are mechanical, configuration options with them are much more and the ECU does have a limited adaptability with changes made to these devices. Most setups beyond stage I require either an Inline fuel pump, or an upgraded in-tank pump.

 It's important to also keep in mind to not have any vacuum leaks within your system as they can affect tenability.

 Since our Cars run on MAF sensor and solely MAF Sensors (1.8T have Map Sensors in there for a reason), our cars try to anticipate the amount of fuel required when under boost and not under boost. This has a lot to do with the Tuner itself (C2, UM). The challenge with this it's calculated and not actually measured like a MAP Sensor. Take for example the following: 

A typical estimate of HP on a working MAF Sensor is (value MAF g / s) / 0.82 = hp​An engine flowing 160g/s (Or about 200 whp) at 3000 RPMS Full Throttle​Same engine flowing 160g/s (Or about 200 whp) at 5000 RPMS at Partial Throttle​
Since your AFR is typically supposed to change once you enter boost, yet your ECU measures Flow of air and not resisting pressure (AKA Boost), how does it know the transition? Things become a little more compounded when you have vacuum leaks, and you try to tune around said vacuum leaks with a FPR, Lemmiwinks, Unisettings ETC.



Stand alone Engine Management Units:
There are several Stand Alone Engine Management Units available, and most of their capabilities are more than adequate. Several Popular ones are the following:
Lugtronic: Awesome Stand alone in itself, but what set's this one apart from the others is Kevin and his unrivaled customer care​DTA: High-end system. More to add later.​MegaSquirt: Awesome for the DIY'er excelling particularly in bang for buck. Make sure you're prepared to work.​AEM: Pretty Universal EMS.​

Gauges:
What are the most important gauges?
Boost, Air:Fuel Ratio, and Oil Pressure​
Where do I get the Light Control from?
Grey Wire with Blue Stripe behind the Dimmer Wheel​


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Pictures, Pictures, Pictures*

reserved


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Datalogging*


Hardware
ELM327 Bluetooth Scanner​

Software
Android - Torque​iOS -​Windows - Vagcom​OSX -​Linux -​


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Feedback requested*

Guys - Can you tell me what you think about this thread? Should I keep going?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> Guys - Can you tell me what you think about this thread? Should I keep going?


Depends on the depth of the content.
-Posts 3 and 5 in particular have potential to be useful when you expand them. Difficult to objectively say how useful given that the content is not populated as yet.
-There are several DIY/Build threads dedicated to the VRT (eg show me your custom vrt setup, Weiss' thread, Soupah's thread, Nater's thread [though Mk3], multiple Mk2 threads, one that Sleepers Performance did, etc), perhaps if you also use your thread as a hub and reference them that will make yours even more helpful.
-List the software/engine management options. You will also want to address limitations, drivability issues, support, emissions, etc. This is something that always comes up and most noobs are clueless about it.
-Need images of your build so that things are not so abstract. You can point to specific images in your build to expand on your text entries.
-Overall I think it has potential once you don't make it repetitive. :thumbup:


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Updates*

How about now? 

I'm trying to see how much more content to add.. Once I get it mostly done, I'll start adding pictures and what not (I've saved this for last as I think this will take a while to grab all the proper permission from the respective people who have taken the pictures.


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

*I'll get to build my spare motor one day*

Following for updates.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Feed Back Required*

Hey Guys,

Thank you so far for the feedback received.

I want to add additional content to this, (Particularly in the Idle, Drivability, and WOT Areas) so If possible please add some comments, and please add some issues related to this, and their common fixes.


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

You need to add stage 4 witch would be a standalone option and list the benefits of it for flashes. Also I think 12an return line is a tad big, most people run 10an. But nice thread anyhow.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*My Only problem*



Nevaeh_Speed said:


> You need to add stage 4 witch would be a standalone option and list the benefits of it for flashes. Also I think 12an return line is a tad big, most people run 10an. But nice thread anyhow.


I would love to, however I don't have any experience with Standalones. Right now I'm struggling to get the C2 Stage Flash to work, so must of the stuff I document is experience through the headaches I've encountered.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Nevaeh_Speed said:


> Also I think 12an return line is a tad big, most people run 10an. But nice thread anyhow.


10AN most common I would agree but the 12AN provides flexibility to go with turbos that tend to have oil backup/poor throughput issues and some that actually spec a comparable diameter in their installation manuals, therefore while might be considered over-kill for most can compensate for other issues. I prefer to use a 12AN on my personal cars even though space constraints sometimes make it a challenge. Working on someone else's car who is not hard pressed either way or has a more reliable turbo - 10AN it is.

While on the topic of oil return, perhaps a comment about angle of return, minimizing restrictions, etc. Keep the thread going though. :thumbup:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> Right now I'm struggling to get the C2 Stage Flash to work, so must of the stuff I document is experience through the headaches I've encountered.



What issues are you having? Do you have another thread detailing what you are experiencing?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*No Sir*



V-dubbulyuh said:


> What issues are you having? Do you have another thread detailing what you are experiencing?


No Sir, Unfortunetly I haven't started that as yet.. I was thinking about doing it, but I've been more focused on trying to document everything I've learned (both the good and bads) so other people as fresh as me won't have to go through the hard times.

Basically I think the root of my issues is two things:

Running very lean on the A/F Ratio
Very Weak Vacuum


The things I've done to try and resolve this are the following:
Replaced my SAI Plug with the 42dd SAI Plug
Teflon all threads going into Intake Manifold
Checking and verifying there are no exhaust leaks.


I have a feeling it's because I purchased a SRI and did not install a metal Gasket between the Intake Manifold and Throttle Body, so that's my next try. Even though it sucks for me, it's great that I go through this, so other noobies like myself can understand "What's going wrong". 

Overall I have nothing but appreciation and gratitude for this community and I feel like this is my turn to give back (This one and I had another thread about A/R & spool characteristics on a 12v Vr6). I've also noticed there are people that maybe post 1 or 2 things (Usually questions without researching) and get upset when they don't get immediate service; again I don't want to be that guy. I want to make this place better.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

I love the idea of this, but I really think it should be split into 2 threads, MKIV 12v and MKIV 24v. Because while they are similar, the builds can really vary when you start getting into it with a fine toothed comb.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*I agree*



DannyLo said:


> I love the idea of this, but I really think it should be split into 2 threads, MKIV 12v and MKIV 24v. Because while they are similar, the builds can really vary when you start getting into it with a fine toothed comb.


I agree and I apologize for not doing that first. Can we get the title changed to add 12v in there somewhere (Something like MKIV 12v VR6 VRT FAQ?
BTW Anyone willing to Spear Front the 24v section.. From what I understand The whole process on a 24valve seems to be less documented.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> Basically I think the root of my issues is two things:
> 
> Running very lean on the A/F Ratio
> Very Weak Vacuum
> ...


I don't want to clutter this thread so if you create a side thread feel free to copy the content. Pertaining to your issues though...


Weak vacuum in my experience has been related to the following:
*Vacuum leaks *- result of poor vacuum fittings, gasket failure. Investigate t-fittings, threaded fittings, plumbing in vicinity of brake booster, throttle body, home made SRI itself (notorious for poor welds and warped flanges), cheap BOV.
*Cams*- Seen vacuum reduced as much as 5" Hg as a result of different cams and otherwise identical hardware setup.
*Software*- Selfexplanatory, may reduce vacuum as much as 5-10" Hg esp on Mk4 12v dependent on tuner.
*Poorly sealing engine/high crank case pressure*- Hurt bottom end eg cracked piston, head anomalie.

Smoke testing can often be helpful here.

Running Lean:
*Injector malfunction/incorrect injector sizing*
*Fuel pump* - low fuel pressure when demanded
*Incorrect fuel pressure regulator*
*MAF failure/MAF placement/MAF housing size*
*Vacuum leaks* - all the previously mentioned plus leaks around injector body especially when installed in Mk4 stock manifold.
*Software*

Suggestion - start with a Vag-Com scan to narrow your focus.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Many thanks again!*



V-dubbulyuh said:


> I don't want to clutter this thread so if you create a side thread feel free to copy the content. Pertaining to your issues though...
> 
> 
> Weak vacuum in my experience has been related to the following:
> ...


So far my issues have been helped with the following:

Creating a Gasket between the Intake Manifold (There was none there)
Re-Torquing the Intake Manifold Bolts (For some reason they became loose)
Grounding the Throttle body


As a side note, I think Grounding the Throttle Body had a major impact, but I don't know why.. Can someone tell me the purpose of this?

This is how the car was idling before I made those changes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbecTm__12I

This is how it's idling now after I made those changes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isUuKgD4rQY

Now my next steps are as follows:

Remove upper and lower intake manifold and install new gaskets all over again(except this time actually clean the mating surfaces this time.)
Install the MKIII Intake Temperature Sensor in the Intake Temperature Sensor Hole on my Intake manifold (I purchased the Flipside Customz' SRI, and apparently there is a hole for the Intake Temperature sensor. On MKIV's it's integrated inside the MAF, so I'm just using it to plug that hole.)
Run new Vacuum lines if I'm still having problems.
Install an Electronic OIL Pressure Gauge using the other plug on the oil filter


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Moar Updates*



marlonlyn said:


> So far my issues have been helped with the following:
> 
> Creating a Gasket between the Intake Manifold (There was none there)
> Re-Torquing the Intake Manifold Bolts (For some reason they became loose)
> ...


So Looks like another issue has been found:
It appears the injectors are not sitting all the way in on the stock Lower Intake Manifold. I've purchased Injectors designed for the MKIII VR6 (Since I'm running a SRI with a MKIII Lower Intake Manifold), but it doesn't look like they fit all the way properly. My Mechanic cut the supporting brackets for the fuel rail to lower it and make sure it's on flat, so we're going to try it out.. Hopefully later on today.

We'll see how it goes.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> As a side note, I think Grounding the Throttle Body had a major impact, but I don't know why.. Can someone tell me the purpose of this?



I've experienced that before, especially if the throttle body harness is run in close proximity to the coilpack (such as relocating the throttle body for an SRI). You are seeing EMI so grounding the throttle body can mitigate chatter in the throttle body itself. Remember it is DBW, ie no mechanical linkage to stabilize it. If the potentiometer inside the throttle body is being affected by EMI a good ground plane is essential.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> It appears the injectors are not sitting all the way in on the stock Lower Intake Manifold.


Picture please.

Is your lower intake powder coated, sandblasted etc? I have seen where sandblasting can create an unintentional buildup in the injector cavity and stop the injector sitting flush.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Picture please.
> 
> Is your lower intake powder coated, sandblasted etc? I have seen where sandblasting can create an unintentional buildup in the injector cavity and stop the injector sitting flush.


Well I think my Vacuum Issues have been taken care of. There were two main issues that caused my vacuum headache:

My Injectors were not seated all the way in.. Here is an example of a properly seated injector
Properly Seated Injectors - Overview


Properly Seated Injectors - Inside


Properly Seated Injectors - Close Up 1


Properly Seated Injectors - Close Up 2


I stripped the Corner Bolt on the bottom of the lower intake manifold (It's by the Alternator)


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Final Issue*

So it looks like my final issue is this: Whenever I rev my car over 2000 RPM's the Oil Light comes on. I have verified that I have OIL inside of it, as well as there is Oil Pressure there. Here is a video for example of what's going on:

You can watch the whole video, or you can fast forward to about 40's where I rev it and you can see the Oil Pressure Move up and down.





I have my oil feed line T'd off with the Oil Pressure sender, so I will try to move it around... But from what I gather, it does appear to have pressure inside the engine.. What are your thoughts.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

The oil pressure gauge itself appears to be reading correctly (you are seeing ~ 60-70 psi on light rev). Since that is the dynamic oil pressure that is throwing that light you need to go back and confirm that the connector is seated on that pressure sender properly. Once you can verify that at/> 2000 RPM your actual analogue gauge is reading correctly you know you don't have a legit oil pressure issue. The problem is more than likely related to the OEM sender/connector being compromised when you installed your oil feed line. Revisit it at the oil filter housing and make sure all electrical connections are as they should be.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> The oil pressure gauge itself appears to be reading correctly (you are seeing ~ 60-70 psi on light rev). Since that is the dynamic oil pressure that is throwing that light you need to go back and confirm that the connector is seated on that pressure sender properly. Once you can verify that at/> 2000 RPM your actual analogue gauge is reading correctly you know you don't have a legit oil pressure issue. The problem is more than likely related to the OEM sender/connector being compromised when you installed your oil feed line. Revisit it at the oil filter housing and make sure all electrical connections are as they should be.


Few Questions:

Since I used a T-Fitting along with Teflon Paste, is it possible that I lost my grounding 
Is it better to just plug the sensor directly into the Chasis
Is it Dangerous to drive the car now?
Does it matter if my gauge is an Electronic one and not a mechnical one?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> Few Questions:
> 
> Since I used a T-Fitting along with Teflon Paste, is it possible that I lost my grounding
> Is it better to just plug the sensor directly into the Chasis
> ...


1. Very possible as the OEM pressure sender might now be isolated - don't go nuts with the teflon tape! If your tape wraps are not excessive the thread will cut and still allow some grounding.

2. Don't understand the question. If I recall the Mk4 only has two ports on that oil filter housing (Mk3's have 3) so you really don't have much of an option other than the use a T-fitting. The dynamic oil sensor is threaded, how do you propose threading into the chasis?

Re-check your electrical connections at the sender, it might be as simple as that. Before you go down a rabbit hole chasing poor grounding. Start simple and go to complex.

3. Dangerous is subjective. It depends on how confident you are on your mechanical gauge. The mechanical gauge should now in my opinion be primary and the idiot light secondary. If I am confident that the mechanical gauge is operating correctly I would have peace of mind even if that oil light was illuminated. Looking at the oil pressure gauge behavior in your video it is apparent that you oil pump is working or the gauge reading would not vary with RPM. A lot of people eliminate that OE sensor altogether when they install a mechanical gauge. Not suggesting you do that but just saying.

4. Does not matter at all, I don't think many people use mechanical liquidgauges anymore (I certainly would not). The remotely located sender unit interfacing to the electrical wire then gauge is typical, that is a non-issue.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> 1. Very possible as the OEM pressure sender might now be isolated - don't go nuts with the teflon tape! If your tape wraps are not excessive the thread will cut and still allow some grounding.
> 
> 2. Don't understand the question. If I recall the Mk4 only has two ports on that oil filter housing (Mk3's have 3) so you really don't have much of an option other than the use a T-fitting. The dynamic oil sensor is threaded, how do you propose threading into the chasis?
> 
> ...



For 2. I meant that installing it on the Filter Housing instead of the T-Brass.. Does it require a solid connection to the Housing to ground it properly?

3. I feel that I am fairly confident. I didn't have any oil issues prior, so I don't think I should have any now. It's been over 2 months since I've been taking the City Bus, Walking, and getting rides everywhere. I think it's about that time!


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*First Experience Driving*

First hand before driving it:
I did an analysis of the Oil Pressure Sensor, and it does appear that it's broken. The Pin on the actual sensor seems to have broken off somehow.

With that out of the way, it felt like a BLAST! It's only running 5lbs right now, and there appears to be issues:

1. WOT and full boost appears a little too high for my liking (~15:1 AFR Sometimes higher) and soon as I come off the gas it dips to about 10, and then floats around.

2. Transitioning from anything greater than cruise, to WOT causes bogging and extreme leanest (It will go between 17:1 to 20:1 AFR Ratio, before recovering itself).

3. Driving on a cruise and just maintaining RPM's seems to work the best. AFR's seem to be decent (Between 12 - 15)

I've ordered an AIR/Flow Straightened.. Going to see if that helps.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> First hand before driving it:
> I did an analysis of the Oil Pressure Sensor, and it does appear that it's broken. The Pin on the actual sensor seems to have broken off somehow.
> 
> 
> ...



About the oil pressure sensor... told you so.

And those AFR's, wow, not looking good at all. You need to be careful (even though it is only 5 psi). From all you have detailed your fuel is not keeping up with the demand. Would also be great if you had a fuel pressure gauge so you could monitor that. Check all the other usual suspects, MAF itself (I'm not too convinced the air straightener will help but worth a try I suppose). Primary O2.

What software/tune are you using?

What injectors?

What fuel pump?

What fpr?

Can you log the car?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> About the oil pressure sensor... told you so.
> 
> And those AFR's, wow, not looking good at all. You need to be careful (even though it is only 5 psi). From all you have detailed your fuel is not keeping up with the demand. Would also be great if you had a fuel pressure gauge so you could monitor that. Check all the other usual suspects, MAF itself (I'm not too convinced the air straightener will help but worth a try I suppose). Primary O2.
> 
> ...


You were right dubbulyuh. What's funny is that OIL Pressure beep starts to get really aggressive if you leave it a that way for a day or two. Honestly, you've been such a tremendous help, I don't know where I would be without you man. Thank you for helping me, and I promise to continue adding as much content to the FAQ so you won't have to repeat yourself twice! So let's get down to it.

SYMPTOMS​
Hunting Idle bouncing from Lean (16.6-17.1) to Rich (12:1)
Difficulty transitioning between partial throttle, and boost (Hesistation, BOG, Leaness)
Very Lean (Albeit) smooth Boost Delivery (It stays pegged at 17.1 AFR)
Occasional Backfires.


Software Tune​
Tune: Stage I C2 Flash for VR6 12v (OBD II) Built for the 36# Injectors
Fuel Pressure Regulator: 3.0 BAR.
Intake Manifold: Flipside Customz SRI + MK III Lower Intake Manifold
Fuel Pump: Stock MKIV Fuel Pump (Flash uses Stock Fuel Pump & Stock Compression)
Fuel Injectors: Bosch 36# Fuel Injectors (White ones purchased from C2 to Support flash)
MAF Housing: C2 95mm MAF Housing (Goes to support Flash) 
Logging: That's a fantastic idea, and worthy of one of my "reserved sections.. I'm going to research on how to log, and add notes in!


Points of Interest​
My hunting idle actually goes to around 17:1 A/F Ratio before trying to correct itself. Which is interesting as this where my car goes under boost It just stays there without jumping up and down.. Holds there pretty steady.
I think if the fuel pump wasn't up to the task, it would begin to lean itself out the longer I stayed in boost due to higher flow demand as RPM's increased. The PSI is constant, but I think it would have a tough time keeping the line pressurized as the duty cycle on the injectors went up.


What are your thoughts?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*ECU Fault Codes*

In Addition to everything else, here is a list of all my ECU Fault codes:


Fault log report generated by Torque for Android
=================================================

Vehicle VIN: Not present
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: Not present

Current Fault Log
------------------
P1142: [Mazda] HO2S Bank 1 Sensor 2 Heater Circuit High Input
[Seat/Audi/Volkswagen] Load Calculation Cross Check Lower Limit Exceeded

P0139: O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 2)

Pending Fault Log
------------------
P0134: O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0123: Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input
P1152: [BMW] O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
[Ford] Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank No. 2
[Mazda] HO2S Bank 2 Sensor 1 Signal Above 0.45v (A/F Ratio Too Rich)
[Seat/Audi/Volkswagen] Bank1, Long Term Fuel Trim, Range 2 Leanness Lower Limit Exceeded

P1151: [BMW] O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Signal Intermittant (Bank 2 Sensor 1)
[Ford] Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 2
[Hyundai] ETS Main Accel Position Sensor 2 Malfunction
[Mazda] HO2S Bank 2 Sensor 1 Signal Below 0.45v (A/F Ratio Too Lean)
[Seat/Audi/Volkswagen] Bank1, Long Term Fuel Trim, Range 1 Leanness Lower Limit Exceeded
[Volvo] Front heated O2 sensor (HO2S) bank 2 faulty signal


Historic Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no historic faults
Other discovered fault codes
(possibly pending, current or manufacturer specific)
----------------------------------------------------
ECU reports no other fault codes logged

End of report.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Here is an example run.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

So per your report the primary O2 seems to be a common theme. You need to spend some time looking at yours as that can very easily cause what you are showing in the clip. I don't like that your idle is so lean either though. If you have access to another O2 sensor you need to try that as yours appears to be unresponsive. Good thing you are only at 5 psi or else that 17 AFR could mean not so good things for you. :laugh: That thing is hideously lean.

If not significant improvement as a result of O2 swap, verify MAF function and injector function. Beyond that, I hate to say it but that tune is more than likely the culprit. I have had issues with that tune on a few cars - same symptoms (lean idle scary lean in boost).


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Adjustable FPR*

So here is an update

So it doesn't appear to have any vacuum leaks. My friend and I have been unable to find any vacuum leaks spraying carb cleaner around the intake manifold, throttle-body, and various gasket lines. In fact we thought we verified the carb cleaner was working by spraying some into the intake manifold. When the car is warmed up, it will run for a few seconds keeping the idle steady. After that, it begins to hunt. 

So I want to kick myself in the head.. It looks like it's all coming together now.

When I purchased my flash (Stage I / Stage III C2) They did ask me what intake manifold am I using? 
My Air Fuel Ratio is consistently around 16.5 :1 Under boost.
My Idle seems to get set around this area as well.
Boost leak should register as running rich (because under pressure you're going to release air to atmosphere)


Why is this interesting?
The ideal ratio under boost is 12.5:1 right so for a rough calculation, let's take 16/12 and reduce that.. What do we get? 4/3's as in the reason why they asked me what intake manifold I was using is probably related to the fact that *Most people who run an SRI use a MKIII Lower intake manifold, and OBDI MKIII use a 4 bar FPR. :banghead::banghead::banghead:*


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

^???

You have a fuel issue - it is not vac related imo.

They asked you about what intake you are running presumably to physically size the injectors correctly, ie those White Giants you are using will not fit a stock Mk4 intake manifold unless you machine them down. Your AFR during idle is off which is why I suspect it might be more than FPR.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> ^???
> 
> You have a fuel issue - it is not vac related imo.
> 
> They asked you about what intake you are running presumably to physically size the injectors correctly, ie those White Giants you are using will not fit a stock Mk4 intake manifold unless you machine them down. Your AFR during idle is off which is why I suspect it might be more than FPR.


I agree with you. That's why I thought the FPR was the wrong rated one not so much vacuum, but more or less that the fuelling demands were not being met. I wasn't %100 sure until I called and spoke with one of the Gentlemen at C2 and I was told the MKIV 12v Software's recipe was based on using the 4 Bar FPR. So I'm hoping this fixes it.

So here's the game plan

Installing new Oil Pump. (The old one has never been changed. And for safety, I figured why not. )
Going to sea-foam my crank case to remove any old sludge, and then do a fresh oil change.
Installing Aeromotive 340 Stealth Fuel Pump
Install 4Bar


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Keep us updated.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Keep us updated.


Will do for sure! I'm sure this isn't the only thing wrong.. I hope this at least brings the car to a respectable level of drivability at least. I know it's crazy but at least to me it makes sense. A Hunting idle seems to indicate a breakdown between MAF Sensor and the O2 Sensor. The MAF sensor's reading is introducing too much a lean condition of which the O2 Sensor says "This is not supposed to happen." Check this video out, you can see the idle trying to correct itself:


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*While I wait... High mileage vr6*

So few things

I've updated Post #9 regarding fuel and engine management. Tell me your thoughts on this guys
It would be nice for us to be able to add in a recommended amount of boost based on engine wear.
What would you recommend regarding max HP on an older vr6 engine assuming the following :

No play in bearings
Good oil pressure
Adequate to Great compression ratio

It would be nice if we could vary the guidelines a bit:

50,000 miles or less
100,000 miles or less
150,000 miles or less 
200,000 miles or less​


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Update*

So the Stage I VR6 12v Turbo definitely runs on a 4.0 Bar ECU

Here's a cold start fully reset ECU






Here's a video of the idle after driving it





Almost Perfect: I'm still running lean at WOT (14.5 - 15.x), but that should be addressed with four things:

Aeromotive Stealth 340 In-tank Fuel Pump
Aeromotive adjustabe FPR
ECU Fuel-Trim Corrections
Honeycomb airflow Straightener


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

In addition to the other stuff:

It seems the hunting idle is still there (Albeit not as high)
Oil Pressure is really high.

(Doesn't drop and stays up high)


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

marlonlyn said:


> In addition to the other stuff:
> 
> It seems the hunting idle is still there (Albeit not as high)
> Oil Pressure is really high.
> ...


Well as an update, I've taken off my oil filter. I'll let you decide...


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

wtf??

Your oil pressure was fine before, correct? 
Did you ever address the oil pressure sensor?
Now you've got shot bearings.. 

And I still stand by my original suggestions about your fueling problems.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> wtf??
> 
> Your oil pressure was fine before, correct?
> Did you ever address the oil pressure sensor?
> ...



My pressure seemed to be fine before seemed to not be low, and I haven't ran it yet. There is a lot of debree all over the oil filter housing.

I'm sending it off for an analysis to make sure. I'm thinking it's possibly the teflon paste I used on the line.

The thing is, it's magnetic in nature, and from what I was told it should be making quite a racket if it was that bad.

Only time will tell.

You're definitely right about the fueling problem. I'm installing a new fuel pump and oil pump Wednesday.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

marlonlyn said:


> My pressure seemed to be fine before seemed to not be low, and I haven't ran it yet. There is a lot of debree all over the oil filter housing.
> 
> I'm sending it off for an analysis to make sure. I'm thinking it's possibly the teflon paste I used on the line.
> 
> ...



Does this seem plasuible? Is there a chance that might work? What if my bearings are shot? Can I replace them and the rod bolts?


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## theprf (Sep 21, 2007)

Your pictures are gone, that amount of metal in the oil filter... wow, man, I'm surprised it runs at all. Your pictures looked like it was gold tinted material (ie, crank bearing material), maybe that's just the flash. Are you sure that it was magnetic/ferrous? 
Were it me, I would be looking for another engine right now. At the very least I would pull the oil pan and the top cover and look around. Probably a leakdown test to look for defunct rings. Perhaps it's your lucky day and it's from the oil pump.

I have a "see snake" which is a little TV camera on a flexible 3/8" diameter shaft. I have put this into the sparkplug holes to have a look around inside without taking the engine apart. Might consider something like that?

The rod bolts and main bearing cap bolts are one-time use, so you need new ones if you take them off - or change to ARP fasteners (I read that changing to ARP's requires the conrods or main bearings be align-bored).


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

The material looks like bearing material to me too but I want to see the oil pan removed before I comment on it further.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok Guys,

I've fixed the broken pictures and added some pictures from a better camera.

V-dubbulyuh - I will do as requested and Drop the Oil Pan Today. I can take some pictures from underneath as well. Is there anything you want me to look for?
V-dubbulyuh - Regarding the Oil Pressure.. I assumed for it to be ok, but maybe I shouldn't have. Check out Post #45 with the video titled "Just another Pull 4." The gauge on the Pillar column all the way to the left is my Oil Pressure Gauge.

theprf - How difficult is swapping in the motor? I've never done something like this before, but I'm not afraid to try.


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## theprf (Sep 21, 2007)

marlonlyn said:


> theprf - How difficult is swapping in the motor? I've never done something like this before, but I'm not afraid to try.


Never done a MkIV. I can swap a Corrado/Mk2/Mk3 motor in about 2 days (16 hours) by myself with the usual allotment of broken bolts on the exhaust etc. If the exhaust - the hardest part, IMHO, refuses to come off easy it can take another 8 hours (really) to get it off. I don't have a lift, and laying under the car for hours beating on exhaust parts is kinda lousy.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

theprf said:


> Never done a MkIV. I can swap a Corrado/Mk2/Mk3 motor in about 2 days (16 hours) by myself with the usual allotment of broken bolts on the exhaust etc. If the exhaust - the hardest part, IMHO, refuses to come off easy it can take another 8 hours (really) to get it off. I don't have a lift, and laying under the car for hours beating on exhaust parts is kinda lousy.


Going to start looking into it. Going to drop the pan and take some pictures today. Maybe try to shake a few rods lol.

Which one of these makes the most sense at the given present time.

Pull motor and replace with refurbished one
Pull motor out and rebuild
Pull head and oil pan, replace bearings and add head spacer


Second thought.. Pulling the motor doesn't seem like rocket science at all. So far, this is what I have:


Remove Axles from Transmission
Follow Steps for disconnecting the Front from car here (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5477821-MK4-Radiator-Replacement-DIY)
Disconnect Coolant Lines - Done this all the time.
Disconnect Throttle Body - Electronic Pretty Self Explanatory 
Disconnect Starter Power Cable - Never done it, I imagine I just find and disconnect
Disconnect Exhaust From Turbo (VBand)
Disconnect Motor Mounts - Never done this before, can't imagine this being difficult
DogBone Mount
Transmission Mount
Engine Mount


Equipment that I have:

SAE, Metric Wrenches and Sockets
Allan Keys
Triple Square
3/8 and 1/2 Drive Torque Wrench
Harbor Freight Digital Torque Adapter
Kobalt 20 Gallon Air Compressor
Kobalt 1/2 350 ft./lb. air impact wrench
4 Jack Stands


Other than I have no idea where the Engine Harness connects to the rest of the car, it seems pretty easy (albeit maybe a little time consuming) to take an engine out. Can someone tell me what I'm missing?


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## theprf (Sep 21, 2007)

Sounds like that's what is needed to pull the engine. Electrical, fuel, coolant, vacuum, exhaust, mounts. Do you have the Bentley manual? Get it, if you don't because it's got the removal and reinstallation instructions.

MkIV engine harness is plugged in below the battery with a 15-pin connector, and inside the rain tray to the ECU, the smaller connector. That disconnects the entire factory engine wiring with those two plugs, the wiring stays with the engine. I think you have to take the covers off the waterfall wire trays next to the ABS pump. Then there's a couple big wires, battery negative, alternator output to the battery fuse box, starter. 

Usually you take off the serpentine belt, remove the power steering pump from the engine so you don't need to disconnect it from the lines, same with the A/C compressor. At least that's what I would do. Don't know if that's practical with a MkIV.

MkIV's have a ton of vacuum lines on the back of the intake. At least 24V's do. All those need to be disconnected.

I have found it easier to get the axles out of the transmission flanges by removing the driver's side ball joint from the control arm. That gives another inch or two to push the axle outboard and lets you get the driver's axle out of the way, slide the engine/trans to the driver's side, then get the passenger's axle out of the way. Again, my experience is with O2A transmissions and 100mm CV drive flanges and Corrado/MkIII's. I don't know if O2J/108mm CV flanges are different.

If you are going to "build" an engine specifically for a turbo you could redo yours or redo a different engine. I don't know the specifics for the AFP's in the MkIV - at least for the AAA in MkIII/Passat/Corrado a lot of internal engine bolts are one time use and are pricey to replace with OE parts. Make a parts list and price it out. You can probably get another AFP 12V VR for a couple hundred bucks, there's tons of MkIV's in junkyards and probably a dozen partouts in the classifieds here.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> Going to start looking into it. Going to drop the pan and take some pictures today. Maybe try to shake a few rods lol.
> 
> Which one of these makes the most sense at the given present time.
> 
> ...


1. Start by analyzing what is truly wrong with the motor. Btw, did you notice on your last engine run if you had rod knock?
2. Remove the rod caps and inspect all mating surfaces (scoring, gouging, missing pieces, etc).
3. I'm more in favor of repairing the existing motor as that is a known motor and you should be able to isolate and address all the issues. It is also potentially the least expensive route. The less labor intensive.
4. I don't see the need to do a full rebuild unless absolutely needed. I assume by rebuild/option #2 you are getting into internals and replacing. I don't think that is warranted.
5. As theses motors are oil pressure critical you need to be certain of adequate oil level and pressure. Given your standalone gauge I assumed that you had a good feel for the pressure situation when you were driving.
6. If for some reason you do end up pulling that motor you need an engine hoist/cherry picker - don't see that on your equipment list. Pulling the motor is not difficult, I am however concerned about what led to you being in the situation that you (potentially) are in presently and how do you prevent it reocurring.

Note: Basically all of what ThePrf said with respect to engine removal applies to the Mk4 (ie 02J and AFP combination). :thumbup:


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok, I've taken it off.

Here is a slide show of everything inside.
http://s24.photobucket.com/user/Blackorb/GTi -MKIV VR6/Metal Shavings - Oil Pan Insides/story

I saw what appears to be the Chain-Tensioner stuck inside the oil filter Pickup line.
What alerted to me was actually having high OIL Pressure that wouldn't drop down in the first place
I don't think I hit the relief pressure, but was very close to it. (I believe it's ~ 105 psi)
I don't see as much debree inside the Oil Pan


I've heard conflicting issues concerning the Oil Pump <-> Tube that goes to Oil Filter. Do we know if this requires a Gasket, or can I just connect it back together without one? I've read that it's not required, but I wanted to be sure: 

http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?38270-superceded-vr6-oil-pump-gasket


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## theprf (Sep 21, 2007)

That's an awful lot of red RTV in there.
I don't know where the oil pressure relief valve is set on MkIV/AFP's. On my Corrados I often see 150 PSI on a winter cold start.
I have never taken the tube off the block so I can't help you there.
Are you going to take the cam cover off and look to see what's up with the timing chain guides? That sure does look like a piece.


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

If you have high oil pressure which doesn't drop when it should, then most likely you have some oil channels that are blocked, and looking at all that metal in the oil filter, it doesn't even surprise me.

Was it the cause or just the result of something else that broke is difficult to say, but running 15/1 AFR at WOT will kill the engine, it's just a matter of time.

Now on the other hand, if you broke a piston(or more) due to knock, then because of the lack of compression the mixture in that cylinder will not ignite and will also result in a lean AFR reading.

So it's also possible that it all started with a knocking engine, which broke some parts, and is now blocking the oil galleries.

So check the pistons and if you ever want to reuse this engine(block), you'll need to dismantle it completely and do a thorough cleaning of the block oil galleries and head, if not you'll probably do it all over again.

Good luck.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Update

So I think I know the cause of my the metal shavings in the Oil Filter. I had the car sitting in the Garage for about a month or longer before I actually drove it. I fired it up without priming the engine. :banghead: 


The new fuel pump & Oil Pump are in, and the car seems to be behaving better. Here's a video of it in action:




It was hitting about 12:5 AFR. 

V-dubbulyuh - You were right on with the fueling issue, the new pump seemed to resolve that. You know what else? It's drop in-tank replacement. FYI it's the Aeromotive Stealth 340 11142 Offset Inlet.

I would also like to add that something in C2's flash seems to bring it back to OEM Specs and that causes me to run OEM regarding Fueling sometimes... I need to get that sorted out

I also seem to have broken my Transmission. I hear what sounds like a a Scraping with a loss of power. Up until that point, it seemed to be braking 1st and 2nd pretty easily.

Regarding the RTV.
Yeah that was two much on there. I redid it and it came out much better. I think my problem happened to be torquing without letting it cure properly. This time I hand tightened it, let it sit for like 2 hours, torqued it all the way down, and waited a day to add Oil.

Regarding the Bottom End - I used a mechanic Stethoscope. No Rod knock as of yet.

I also pulled my Coil Pack and Fuel Pump and Crank it for a good while this time to prime it properly (At least a minute of priming)

So regarding the Piston, Oil galleys, and Internal Conditions.
What am I looking at getting done to have it moving properly?
I have ARP Head Studs and I have the c2 Spacer. I really want to try to install it, but I've been hesitant as I've never done this before, but seeing as how it looks like I need a visual confirmation on my piston, I'm going to have to right?
I also need to get the Chain Tensioner done, didn't have a chance to crack the head open, but I will do that hopefully this thursday/friday.

I haven't slept in over 24 hours and it's killing me.. I just hope I'm over 50% of the way there.


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

I would start with a compression test, to check if the pistons are ok, if you have big differences between cylinders then do a leak test first, to check where it's leaking(pistons or valves).

If you're lucky, no debris have past the oil filter(check that old filter for punched holes).

And get some sleep


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

MarcoVR6SC said:


> I would start with a compression test, to check if the pistons are ok, if you have big differences between cylinders then do a leak test first, to check where it's leaking(pistons or valves).
> 
> If you're lucky, no debris have past the oil filter(check that old filter for punched holes).
> 
> And get some sleep


Funny Enough I plan to do just

Update So the funny thing about the Oil Pressure.. With my AC Off, it Sky Rockets, Went over the 100 PSI marker. When the AC is on, it hovers between 70 - 80 psi.

For some reason I'm not getting boost, so I have to look into that and see what's causing that. I have enough of a leak to let out the pressure under boost, but not enough to run rich and die.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> Update
> 
> The new fuel pump & Oil Pump are in, and the car seems to be behaving better.
> It was hitting about 12:5 AFR.
> ...


So idle & cruise 14.7 and WOT 12.5? Those are your targets but your video confirmed neither.

Is the oil pressure correct (per the aftermarket gauge)? Have you addressed that OEM oil pressure light?




marlonlyn said:


> I would also like to add that something in C2's flash seems to bring it back to OEM Specs and that causes me to run OEM regarding Fueling sometimes... I need to get that sorted out


No idea what you mean by this, as in bring back to OEM specs.



marlonlyn said:


> I have ARP Head Studs and I have the c2 Spacer. I really want to try to install it, but I've been hesitant as I've never done this before, but seeing as how it looks like I need a visual confirmation on my piston, I'm going to have to right?
> I also need to get the Chain Tensioner done, didn't have a chance to crack the head open, but I will do that hopefully this thursday/friday.


I personally would not get into any compression changes at this moment. Resolve the current issues that you have before opening the door to additional complexities - ie get it running right at the present CR. 

That being said if you are at the point where you have to remove the head anyway then yes it is a no brainer to put the spacer in.


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

If the oil pressure readings change in a funny way(the pressure should go up a little with the AC on, as the engine will run slightly faster) when switching things on, then you probably have a ground problem(s), which could also make the car run erratic. 

Be sure the engine bloc is grounded correctly, although it could as well just be the gauge that is faulty or has ground problems.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

So I figured out where the Shavings where coming from.










The boost was fun while it lasted.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

^ That's the best news you've posted in weeks.

Master Power?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

So the shavings coming from turbo is a good thing?

Yessir, it's a master power T66. I bought it for $700. I guess I should redo my feed lines as well?

Any recommendations for a good 400whp turbo, that won't blow my transmission?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Good news from the view point that the metal shavings are related to compressor blade to housing interference and not as a result of your motor being shot. Unless you address potential oil issues your motor might be the next one generating metallic shavings. 

You need to try to determine what caused the excessive shaft play in that turbo or you might have a repeat (eg oil feed line blockage, low oil pressure due to the pump). Is there really an oil starvation issue in that car leading to low oil pressure annunciations and turbo failure? *You need to be certain that your oil pressure is adequate before you do anything else.* Following that you need to flush as much of those shavings out of the engine and oil system. You will have to blow out the oil feed and return lines, oil pan, oil cooler, filter housing. Run cheap oil through the motor to purge any residual shavings from the motor. Following this do a quick oil and filter change to your regular oil type.

Turbo choice? Depends your budget. If 400whp is your target I would probably suggest a turbo that is capable of more than that. You would not want your turbo to be maxing out to meet your hp target.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Good news from the view point that the metal shavings are related to compressor blade to housing interference and not as a result of your motor being shot. Unless you address potential oil issues your motor might be the next one generating metallic shavings.
> 
> You need to try to determine what caused the excessive shaft play in that turbo or you might have a repeat (eg oil feed line blockage, low oil pressure due to the pump). Is there really an oil starvation issue in that car leading to low oil pressure annunciations and turbo failure? *You need to be certain that your oil pressure is adequate before you do anything else.* Following that you need to flush as much of those shavings out of the engine and oil system. You will have to blow out the oil feed and return lines, oil pan, oil cooler, filter housing. Run cheap oil through the motor to purge any residual shavings from the motor. Following this do a quick oil and filter change to your regular oil type.
> 
> Turbo choice? Depends your budget. If 400whp is your target I would probably suggest a turbo that is capable of more than that. You would not want your turbo to be maxing out to meet your hp target.


I forgot to mention that I changed the Idiot Sensor, and the Oil Pressure Light does not come on at all. No more beeping..

What do you think about the following Options:

Rebuild Turbo
Purchase EBAY Turbo
Honestly I was contemplating on getting an EBay Turbo as I will not be running that much boost (5PSI) for a long time and saving up for a good one. What are your thoughts? I know Weiss had some pretty good luck with one of them. 
This was the one I was considering. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-T3...ool-/160881253623?hash=item2575451cf7&vxp=mtr)


Purchase used turbos - Don't know my options here, or where the best place to get one.
Purchase New Turbo - Will have to wait a few Months.
Possible Combination of Something to get me started now, and then later?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

vr6jake said:


> I've been following your thread the last couple of weeks. I'm also doing a MK4 build with similar goals. I recently bought a Borg Warner S300 for $575 shipped from Boost Lab.
> 
> http://www.theboostlab.com/store/products/Borg-Warner-S300SX3%2d60-.91-A{47}R--**ON-SALE**.html


Thanks vr6jake! I hope at least through my struggles, I was able to provide some insight/ help. I think that A/R is a little large though for a VR6 No? If It would be cool once you have it on to reply to my other thread and give us some characteristics about it

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ics-turbine-A-R-Ratio-Housing-Family-Vr6-(12)


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

The Borg Warner stuff is an excellent option - I would advise that to minimize configuration changes get something with the same physical footprint as you currently have (eg manifold flange, compressor inlet, compressor outlet, turbine discharge). Unless you have a valid reason try to avoid making configuration changes. Do not install a high dollar turbo until you are confident that you have flushed the metal debris out of the engine/oil system. If budget is an issue buy the cheapest POS you can find on eBay, that is what I use for diagnostics anyway. Keep the boost low until you financially recover and get a real turbo.

Note: for what you are doing I would not bother with an eBay turbo that you have to plumb into the water system of the car. Stay basic and keep your config changes to a minimum. For what it's worth you can get something even cheaper than that until the car is running properly.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> The Borg Warner stuff is an excellent option - I would advise that to minimize configuration changes get something with the same physical footprint as you currently have (eg manifold flange, compressor inlet, compressor outlet, turbine discharge). Unless you have a valid reason try to avoid making configuration changes. Do not install a high dollar turbo until you are confident that you have flushed the metal debris out of the engine/oil system. If budget is an issue buy the cheapest POS you can find on eBay, that is what I use for diagnostics anyway. Keep the boost low until you financially recover and get a real turbo.
> 
> Note: for what you are doing I would not bother with an eBay turbo that you have to plumb into the water system of the car. Stay basic and keep your config changes to a minimum. For what it's worth you can get something even cheaper than that until the car is running properly.


Thanks V-dubbulyuh! Do you have any suggestions I could go with. Maybe I can find a cheap one from ebay?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

So I was thinking, Here is a Picture of the Blown turbo:
http://s24.photobucket.com/user/Blackorb/slideshow/GTi -MKIV VR6/Turbo Parts

So I was thinking to go cheaper, can I purchase this turbo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GT3582-GT35...Max-/131490958418?hash=item1e9d78cc52&vxp=mtr

This should be a drop in.. Going to get this one hopefully and see what happens.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

That POS is right in the financial sweet spot. :thumbup:

If I'm trouble shooting I want minimal investment. Take it off when done, put it on the shelf and don't touch it again until you absolutely have to. I'm a little hesitent to suggest investing more when we are not sure what is actually going on with your car.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> That POS is right in the financial sweet spot. :thumbup:
> 
> If I'm trouble shooting I want minimal investment. Take it off when done, put it on the shelf and don't touch it again until you absolutely have to. I'm a little hesitent to suggest investing more when we are not sure what is actually going on with your car.


Do you think it will last at 5PSI? Do you think it will get me at least a couple of months? Is there anyway I could take it to get rebuilt and last longer than like a month? I'm just nervous of the blade breaking and destroying my engine.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

It will last at 5psi. I've tested them up to 12psi with no failure and people have done so at even higher boost levels (even though I am not comfortable with that). Do not waste additional money investing in rebuilding the eBay/generic turbo. Use it for the intent, a temporary solution to get the car running solid. Remove the compressor and turbin housings. Verify no imperfections in the castings, file to debur as necessary, retorque everything, pre-oil and go.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

So it was definitely oil starvation:

Feed line









Feed Hole on Turbo










It's crazy how this turbo survived so long without adequate oil cooling. What's Crazier is the fact that everything is still in one piece. Do you based on this video it can be rebuilt(I already bought the eBay turbo, so I will have a spair)?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

The restrictor is "normal" for some installations with excessive oil pressure. Don't know if this was a characteristic of your setup or not. With the Master Power stuff I never run a restrictor though and don't suspect that you would have needed one either. I would have advised you to open the diameter of that feed hole to something more sensible.

Here's a thought, if you want to retain that Master Power turbo for the long run since you are in South Fl just have Mike's Turbo rebuild it and he can also set you up with an upgraded wheel (billet etc) if you wanted. That might be a more cost effective approach to buying a high-dollar turbo.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

So you don't think there's too much Shaft play? That would be awesome if it could be rebuilt!

I'm also thinking the lack of oil, along with exhaust fumes caused the line to heat up, or push some sort of gas up the line causing the increased pressure. I know that sounds crazy, but turning on the AC, along with driving consistently below 2.5K RPMS caused the High Oil Pressure to go down. 
I just need to get this line fixed properly


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## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

I fully agree with V-dubbulyuh Turbo Mike in Medley, FL has done right buy me and can it done in about a week provided he has all the correct replacement parts instock. 
That is a lot of shaft play and extremely small restrictor, who recommended that?
Why don't you have ARP Rod Bolts installed on the motor? $100 worth of insurance can save you loads later on a motor that is known to spin bearings...
Where are you located in South Fl? I can probably give you a hand with your issues... I have a turbo knowledge and experience with Mk3's... 

V-dubblyuh knows me outside of vortex. I have a few turbo cars on here..


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

If you send it to Mike Turbos he will replace the bearings within it so that will bring the axial play back into spec. I'm not confident on the salvagability of the compressor wheel hence my suggestion that you could upgrade with wheel and have him machine the compressor housing. Yes there is a lot of shaft play there but assuming no damage to the shaft/turbine you should still consider a rebuild.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Man what a mission. Getting the Turbo Manifold / Turbo out of the back of the engine.


Hey Highbeam2, sorry I didn't respond earlier, I didn't see the message and was looking at the last one sent which was v-dubbulyuh. The restrictor thing was a dumb idea a keyboard mechanic (Myself) would come up with after reading about High oil pressure, and it blowing smoke through the seals of the turbo. Unfortunately my experience with car work / Maintenance has been simply replacing minor things and maybe I bit off a lot more than I thought.

Another problem comes from the sources from where I get my advice from. I've talked to a lot of people, and a lot of them have said, "Don't touch the bottom end as you will just introduce additional problems for your car. I was reading up on the ARP Rod Bolts, and I've heard you have to get them machined because the extra clamping force would take them out of round. Fact of the matter is I was told that if I push anything over 8 psi, I'm going to destroy my motor because it has a lot of mileage on it.

I also have the c2 8.5:1 Head Spacer & ARP Head Studs just sitting down in my garage, because again people told me "don't mess with the head, you're going to ruin it" 

Highbeam - that would be dope if you could come through; I'm in the Pembroke Pines area. It would be great if I could document my problems (and more importantly the solutions!) for everyone else. That would be awesome if we could link man! This dream has been 8 years coming and thanks to everyone here on the Vortex, it looks like it's going to come true! (Hopefully Stable wise)

So I have my new turbo coming in around tuesday, and I'm going to replace my feed line because it was bent/crushed pretty nasty. I work overnight so just let me know when is the best time for you and I will make sure I'm there.

V-Dubbulyuh - Just wanted to say you're awesome man. My Birthday is coming up in a few days, and because of you I my dream is going to happen.

As a side note, these nuts look almost done. I nearly stripped 1 that holds the turbo into the manifold, and another that holds the turbo manifold onto the engine. Can anyone recommend replacement bolts? Can I just walk into lowes and then install them?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

You can actually get both of those studs & nuts from Autozone/Advance/O'Reily's etc. I forget the pitch off the top of my head but I have sourced them from those places multiple times. Just take the original nut for the head-manifold stud and for the manifold-turbo stud.

Next time I go to see Highbeam I should be able to pass by your area too. :thumbup:


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## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

Well back away from the keyboard and get outside and start wrenching...
You can't read about everybody's issues and assume that they will happen to you. {I personally am a trial and error person}

I am not going to say anything about who you're talking to or getting advice from, not my style..

But I will tell you from MY OWN experience that,
1. I have ran 11psi on a COMPLETELY stock motor for 16 months (daily driven) before blowing the original head gasket. 
2. I have heard/seen the "out of round" debate but never had an issue on motors i put together. 
(It exists but such a minuscule amount, the amount of money to correct {machine shop} it doesn't justify.}
3. There is a lot to be said about building and spec'ing a motor but not going to bore people on here with my opinion.

Install the spacer and studs since you have them... Cams? Also an option. 8.5:1 will make the car feel a little sluggish pending your new turbo size.
Waaayyy too much to touch on.

I'm in Plantation.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> You can actually get both of those studs & nuts from Autozone/Advance/O'Reily's etc. I forget the pitch off the top of my head but I have sourced them from those places multiple times. Just take the original nut for the head-manifold stud and for the manifold-turbo stud.
> 
> Next time I go to see Highbeam I should be able to pass by your area too. :thumbup:


Man that would be incredible! Getting Visited by the V-Dub Gods!


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Highbeam2 said:


> Well back away from the keyboard and get outside and start wrenching...
> You can't read about everybody's issues and assume that they will happen to you. {I personally am a trial and error person}
> 
> I am not going to say anything about who you're talking to or getting advice from, not my style..
> ...


1. Ok, So I imagine I should be fine with 7psi Intercooled for a good long time. I'm more concerned with having everything run as close to perfect as possible before I even think about Upping the Boost.
2. So you think I should just get the Con rod bolts and go for it? I think I can do that. 
3. Trust me it's not a bore my friend, add as much detail as possible (Time provided of course)

- The New Turbo (for the time being) is a an ebay GT35 w/ .63 AR on the Turbine Side (I know I know), so I don't think off boost will be that sluggish if anything. 
I've never taken off the head... Doesn't seem too hard, I'm guessing I should proably schedule a couple days to do that? My Luck

Man Plantation sure is close. Let's talk some more offline.. Going to PM you my information.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*My Thanks to HIGHBEAM2!*

Well I can't thank HIGHBEAM2 enough! He has helped me out, and was able to get me what I need to get rolling. A couple of things changed so I think it would be good to use this as an update


The Drain line changed from a screw on style, to a compression Barb.
The New turbo has water lines of which I will be running these.
The Dumptube -> Downpipe section was cut and welded to ease with swapping turbos.
I'm pending a Dump tube in order to run my car in boost.


With that said, I'm going to update the OIL Section as it appears the line was destroyed.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

^ I Spoke to Highbeam Thursday I think it was so I'm glad he was able to get you sorted out. When you get some time take some pics of the fab work as he explained that quite a bit changed on the downpipe interface to the turbine housing. He will set you straight, I'm also very curious about the engine condition though so take it easy once it is up and running. We can discuss the compression changes etc once the car is stable.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Update!*



V-dubbulyuh said:


> ^ I Spoke to Highbeam Thursday I think it was so I'm glad he was able to get you sorted out. When you get some time take some pics of the fab work as he explained that quite a bit changed on the downpipe interface to the turbine housing. He will set you straight, I'm also very curious about the engine condition though so take it easy once it is up and running. We can discuss the compression changes etc once the car is stable.


Well here's an update 

First the good.
Car is driving great.. It was a little rough, but it seems to be adapting / tuning itself.
Right now I do not have a tube for the waste gate, so I am learning to stay out of boost. I did mess up a few times, but I pulled back on the throttle asap.

Now the Bad.
I currently have a coolant leak
I currently have an oil leak.

Hopefully I can get these resolved relatively soon.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Updates*

So as an update. Been taking care of life stuff (aka living) and I'm working straight for the next couple of days. I wanted to update some of the FAQ's to add adjusting Chip tunes w/ Lemmiwinks/ Unisettings etc.. What do you think V-dubbulyuh?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Request for Comments*

Greetings,

So I haven't updated this thread much recently.. I would like to add more FAQ Information related to Turbo-Charging MKIV 12v VR6's.. What are your thoughts on what should be added?


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## Malkierie504 (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm curious to see how you have your turbo mounted in your bay & the piping pathway you decided on. What have you updated recently? Have you looked into using larger throttle bodies, from the rs4 or 4.2 A8 v8?


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Malkierie504 said:


> I'm curious to see how you have your turbo mounted in your bay & the piping pathway you decided on. What have you updated recently? Have you looked into using larger throttle bodies, from the rs4 or 4.2 A8 v8?


I can definitely take some pictures, but I will tell you a few things:

I have an ATP Clone Style Manifold
Compressor inlet goes to driver's side of the car
Intake manifold inlet is on Driver's side of the car


So It goes like this:
Turbo Compressor Outlet faces up -> Goes between Fuel Rail line and Power Steering -> Down through where the Auxillary Radiator / Windshield washer Reservoir used to be -> intercooler inlet -> Out goes up where normal cold air intake used to be -> Bends around Battery -> Throttle Body

Couple caveats of this setup:
You have to do some massaging on the Actual Chassis of the Car
You end up either having to relocate the Windshield Washer Resv, or Deleting it all together
Compressor Inlet is connected to a 90" 4" Silicon adaptor which can interfer with the heater core hose Inlet / Outlet

The larger throttle body would probably require some massaging, plus you can still make enough with the factory one to cause the limiting factor to be suspension.


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## Pravvus (Nov 16, 2015)

Not to derail the convo, but I just finished my first vrt build on my mk4 (cept for the tune, still waiting) , much thanks to this thread. 
I have a few questions regarding some points in the original post. 

The air shrouding vac line on the stock manifold shouldn't be plugged? I know it's required for fuel atomization. So should it just be left open with a check valve? 

Also maybe a bit more elaboration on the EGR and leak detection pump lines. 
Do they affect fuel trims or anything? I disconnected and plugged the leak detection pump line, and didn't notice anything. 
Also, the shift rod actuator. What to do with it? 

And how are you guys getting around the BOV not killing the car? Does anyone have their MAF after the turbo? 

Sorry if they're dumb questions. 

Oh and I'll be honest, after I saw what happened to your turbo I went out and looked in my return line just in case.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Pravvus said:


> Not to derail the convo, but I just finished my first vrt build on my mk4 (cept for the tune, still waiting) , much thanks to this thread.
> I have a few questions regarding some points in the original post.
> 
> The air shrouding vac line on the stock manifold shouldn't be plugged? I know it's required for fuel atomization. So should it just be left open with a check valve?
> ...



These are all good and valid questions, and definitely does not derail the thread in anyway whatsoever. So Let's talk about it.


The air shrouding vac line on the stock manifold shouldn't be plugged? I know it's required for fuel atomization. So should it just be left open with a check valve? 
I'm not %100 sure if I'm qualified to answer this question (Since I have an aftermarket SAI). I would imagine (Since it's run vacuum dependent) you should probably add it in and place a check valve inside the line. I would imagine it just helps on cruising throttle and wouldn't be used anyway during boost.​
Also maybe a bit more elaboration on the EGR and leak detection pump lines. Do they affect fuel trims or anything? I disconnected and plugged the leak detection pump line, and didn't notice anything. 
Mine are not connected at all. From my understanding our cars do not have an EGR, but rather a SAI (Secondary Air injection). Instead of recirculating exhaust gas back into the intake, we blow air (via the pump) into the exhaust stream to help the catalytic converter get up to temperature. You can find the hole on the front of the engine around Cylinder 2 and 4. With that being said, I placed a block off valve and I have it tuned out via C2's software. The code is still triggered, but the CEL doesn't show.​
Also, the shift rod actuator. What to do with it? 
I can find out an answer on this one, or if someone else wants to add go for it!
And how are you guys getting around the BOV not killing the car? Does anyone have their MAF after the turbo? 
I will break this statement down based on various transitions of the engine.
*Idle / boost transition*: You have to make sure you BOV is tuned to not allow air to leak out. Using a Dual Diaphram BOV allows you to customize to the spring to make sure it's not open at idle / partial acceleration​*WOT to shift*: From my understanding this is controlled via software. There is an injector cut which does not meter air between shifts.​


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## Pravvus (Nov 16, 2015)

*Thx*

Thanks for the info! I might unhook that shifter rod for the time being. Its got the dreaded rattle. Didnt start til 200K miles either.
I put a check valve on the shrouding. 
Ill have to look into that BOV issue more


Oh my bad. Not EGR, its just force of habit. I meant EVAP. Theres an EVAP line and a Leak detection pump line coming off the intake manifold. I have already deleted the SAI. 
I was wondering if I should just DC those lines or if they would affect fuel trims. I read somewhere that fuel trims "wouldnt set" with the EVAP disconnected. 

I should probably mention that Im catless, as there are no emissions checks in my state. 
Other than that 262 cams, and a rebuilt head, arp studs, stock compression, clutch rated to 350+ tq.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Pravvus said:


> Thanks for the info! I might unhook that shifter rod for the time being. Its got the dreaded rattle. Didnt start til 200K miles either.
> I put a check valve on the shrouding.
> Ill have to look into that BOV issue more
> 
> ...


This is interesting. I would love to hear more about this as I'm having fuel issues (and subsequently have to set it manually using unisettings. I'm running C2's Software. 

Do you have any more information concerning this?


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

I'll try and answer some of these, and be more present in this thread. I can probably offer a lot of help providing the knowledge that I *wish* I would've had when I originally turbocharged my car. 



Pravvus said:


> Not to derail the convo, but I just finished my first vrt build on my mk4 (cept for the tune, still waiting) , much thanks to this thread.
> I have a few questions regarding some points in the original post.
> 
> The air shrouding vac line on the stock manifold shouldn't be plugged? I know it's required for fuel atomization. So should it just be left open with a check valve?
> ...


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

So it appears I still have a lot of work that needs to be done:

Low Cylinder pressure among all cylinders (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/Blackorb/slideshow/GTi -MKIV VR6/Spark Plugs 12 - 17 - 2015)
Cylinder 1 - 135 PSI 
Cylinder 3 - 125 PSI 
Cylinder 5 - 128 PSI 
Cylinder 2 - 135 PSI 
Cylinder 4 - 135 PSI 
Cylinder 6 - 135 PSI 


Fault Codes
 P0139 - Powertrain O2 Sensor Circuit Slow response
 P1142 - Powertrain Load calculation cross check lower limit exceeded
 P0340 - Powertrain Camshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit (Bank 1 or single Sensor)

 Hunting Idle
 Coolant Leak

I promise to have pictures up relatively soon for those trying to figure out piping. I also noticed, I didn't have any write-ups on Spark Plugs for VR6. If anyone wants to add some of their expertise concerning spark plugs, and their experiences with Boosted AFP Engines, please feel free to add.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Shinko said:


> So it appears I still have a lot of work that needs to be done:
> 
> Low Cylinder pressure among all cylinders (http://s24.photobucket.com/user/Blackorb/slideshow/GTi -MKIV VR6/Spark Plugs 12 - 17 - 2015)
> Cylinder 1 - 135 PSI
> ...


Replies Added.. Most Issues resolved.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

We need to talk bro... specifically about that cyl pressure.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*--Update--*

I want to send out a Big Thank you to all those that have helped me. I want to send a special shout to V-dubbulyuh and HIGHBEAM2. It's been a fight with this car, but we've finally achieved stability.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Clean it up and share some pics.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Clean it up and share some pics.


and plz let us know what the issue / solution was (to help others in the future) :thumbup:


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*A major leak found / fixed (Cracked Intercooler)*

Seems like a major issue was my intercooler being cracked and screaming out air. I purchased a Fitting to perform a pressure test, and we were able to isolate an area leaking a large amount of boost; The intercooler. I will post an after video of the subsequent effects, but you can now hear my turbo whistle, as before you couldn't hear it whistle.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Another Major Issue Fixed: Cam Positioning Sensor*

I replaced my Cam Positioning Sensor after having the error message "P0343 - Cam Signal too high". This, along with repairing the a major vacuum leak as resulted in a substantially better idle. Definitely well enough to document and update.

Why is this significant. 
The Crankshaft Position Sensor & The Camshaft Position Sensor go hand in hand with fuel delivery & Spark Ignition. While it's true the engine can run without the Cam Position Sensor, it will run poorly. To understand why, you have to realize 4 stroke motors spin the crankshaft twice for a single complete cycle, and spin the camshaft once for a complete cycle. Without the Camshaft Position Sensor, the Engine is unable to determine if the car is on the Intake / Power (Because they both move downward), or Compression / Exhaust (Because they both move upward), so tries to compensate and subsequently your timing gets messed up.


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## 1999.5_vR6-homies mk4? (Mar 15, 2021)

Shinko said:


> *Feedback requested*
> 
> Guys - Can you tell me what you think about this thread? Should I keep going?


I love you


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