# Custom Rear Springs



## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*UPDATED w/ PICS*
Just ordered some Afcos 2 5/8 4" 600lbs custom rear springs.
My question is did you put the adjusters (perches) back in?
Also pics are extemely welcome. Thanks.

_*UPDATES*_

_Quote, originally posted by *omarquez510* »_I put both perches back in with 1/8" of gap between adjuster and top. Gonna see how things go, and I'll get as low as i can over time. Need to break them in first. Might even have to trim the bump stops.
Alright Pictures :
*afco's / V-maxx* 








*Before*








*After*








*Compressed*










*Lowered even more*









*New compressed spring pics.*












_Modified by omarquez510 at 12:03 PM 11/25/2009_


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

i too would like info on this ... 
btw i woulda gotten the 800lbs version as ben said his 600 were really bouncy


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

I only put the adjuster in the rear drivers side (because of that 50lb weight)


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## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: (Neb)*

Got them on, Pics to come


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## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: (Neb)*

I put both perches back in with 1/8" of gap between adjuster and top. Gonna see how things go, and I'll get as low as i can over time. Need to break them in first. Might even have to trim the bump stops.

_Modified by omarquez510 at 8:07 AM 11-24-2009_


_Modified by omarquez510 at 11:59 AM 11/25/2009_


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## CubFan63 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Re: (omarquez510)*

That looks much better. I have VMaxx as well and am disappointed with the rear height. I was thinking about looking into different rear springs and now I'm certain. Where did you get these?


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

how do they ride, are they bouncy?
btw whats the turquise looking thing inside the afco spings in the bottom 2 photos ? is that the adjuster from vmaxx ?


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

you've got about 1.5" of travel!!! i'd also be weary of extending your suspension over a bump!!


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## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: (CubFan63)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CubFan63* »_That looks much better. I have VMaxx as well and am disappointed with the rear height. I was thinking about looking into different rear springs and now I'm certain. Where did you get these? 

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/....html

_Quote, originally posted by *BigBlackTiTTy* »_how do they ride, are they bouncy?
btw whats the turquise looking thing inside the afco spings in the bottom 2 photos ? is that the adjuster from vmaxx ?

Yup, thats the adjuster. I can feel the car a little more bouncy. Someone try out the 800lbs springs! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *M this 1!* »_you've got about 1.5" of travel!!! i'd also be weary of extending your suspension over a bump!!

Yea, its lower now, i accidently left a plastic piece that wasnt letting me get low enough. Thats gone and Im pretty happy with stance. I'l get upsated pics tomorrow.


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (omarquez510)*

no, what i'm saying is you really don't have much travel! any good sized bump will put you in coil bind....which is bad. the bigger concern is if you went over a bump that put the car up in the air (even when the wheels are still on the ground) your suspension will extend and your spring could become dislodged. i'd check to make sure that if your car is jacked up and you push down on your wheel, that your spring can not come out. if it can, this can actually happen while driving.


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## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: (M this 1!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M this 1!* »_no, what i'm saying is you really don't have much travel! any good sized bump will put you in coil bind....which is bad. the bigger concern is if you went over a bump that put the car up in the air (even when the wheels are still on the ground) your suspension will extend and your spring could become dislodged. i'd check to make sure that if your car is jacked up and you push down on your wheel, that your spring can not come out. if it can, this can actually happen while driving. 









definitely gnna check things out. Neb runs the same and hes been fine. I'm gonna keep an eye out for sure. Thanks for the heads up.


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## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: (omarquez510)*

New pics at top of page from now on.


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: (M this 1!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M this 1!* »_no, what i'm saying is you really don't have much travel! any good sized bump will put you in coil bind....which is bad. the bigger concern is if you went over a bump that put the car up in the air (even when the wheels are still on the ground) your suspension will extend and your spring could become dislodged. i'd check to make sure that if your car is jacked up and you push down on your wheel, that your spring can not come out. if it can, this can actually happen while driving. 

won't happen IMO. it's close but you have to undo suspension bits to get the extra travel needed to come lose. I've gone over big dips (not wheels of the ground but big enough) and no issues.


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: (Neb)*

i dont see the 800lbs springs....


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

they are on afco's website.
http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_D...rings
here ya go.. hope this helps


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## joes280 (Nov 29, 2007)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

bringing back from the dead.....800lb springs would be hard as sh t...=more bouncy.....shouldn't you get a softer spring to make it less bouncy.....btw I have heard a comfortable spring rate is closer to 200-300lbs for our car...I think PSS9 springs are F400 and R300 ish


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## Volc0mTT (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: (joes280)*

Hey everyone... i can make custom springs for ANY spring rate and weight... i work for Road Magnet let me know if i can be of any help.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Volc0mTT)*

What would a set of quattro springs cost, and are they linear, progressive...?


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## Volc0mTT (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Around 200 to 250 depending... we can do both progressive and linear and i can also powder coat them any color







and i can set any ride height u would like...


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

ah my favorite thread.... 
well 800# i think would be better than the 600 if the 600 are bouncy .. i think if you got a softer spring it just wouldnt hold the weight propperly and the spring would be compressed
and its not like you really want to lower the tt that fricken low and expect comfort. 
im actually leanning towards getting h&r ID race springs in 4inch in height and about 1000# spring rate.. im fine with the harshness. the tt's ride harsh when lowered anyways ./ and when they are soft.. its way too bouncy and you get lots of rubbing .. 
so i would rather stiff as $hit. and no rubbing . to get the ride height i want. 
and the bilstein used to have something like 300. but all their springs collapsed. so they went with the same spring rate h&r went with .. thats what i was told anyways . but the front coils are still the same . very soft.. so you get wicked dampening with the pss9,, but the springs are soo soft kinda a oxymoron.


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## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

Yea, #600 were pretty bouncy the first week. Either I've gotten used to them or they arent as bouncy as they used to. No rubbing btw.


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: (omarquez510)*

H&R's rear spring rate is 515 btw. But once you lower it by 1.5" there's no way it'll ride as nice


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

neb.. ya i was sorta thinking getting h&r custom springs closer to 900# even 1000# because if 600's were bouncy.. just to get that effect of there 515 # on there rear spring that comes with the coilovers.. if u leave it at that height .its a good stiffness but if u get it lower it would suck... 
just curious to know whether or not run pads alone or put an adjuster in it ......and if its worth cuttin up your rubber bump stop


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

Springs do NOT determine how bouncy the ride is - shocks do. Typically what is happening is that your rebound dampening is insufficient to handle the spring rate and cannot control the action of the spring. The stiffer the spring the more rebound (and compression for that matter) dampening you need.


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## Volc0mTT (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Ditto...


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

So what would you recommend for a street TT? 375lbs? What about the front?


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## Volc0mTT (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Audi TT MK1 (00-07) Coupe, Roadster - Quattro 225
Front Spring Rate (lbs/inch): 400
Rear Spring Rate (lbs/inch): Progressive
Thats what i have on my car and i would reccomend that for a daily/weekend play toy....


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

i thought of this .but if the spring is stiffer.. wouldnt the shock be working less , as there is less spring travel to have to control ?


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## omarquez510 (Apr 5, 2009)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

Springs job is to support the weight of the vehicle. Shocks job is to absorb spring oscillations (bounce). 
It would make sense that the less the spring compresses, the less the shock will have to work. Stiffer springs make for a ****ty, noisy, and uncomfortable ride. Speaking from a non audi past experience. I've had #900's on the front of a car, that was terrible.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Volc0mTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volc0mTT* »_
Audi TT MK1 (00-07) Coupe, Roadster - Quattro 225
Front Spring Rate (lbs/inch): 400
Rear Spring Rate (lbs/inch): Progressive
Thats what i have on my car and i would reccomend that for a daily/weekend play toy....

Why not progressive on both? Sorry, I'm not good on the finer points of suspension...


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## Volc0mTT (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

well you could run progressive on both but i think it would be harder to dial in a good setup...The idea behind progressive springs is that they are somewhat soft under normal load and get progressively firmer as they compress. The advantage of this (if the spring actually works well) is that you have a softer ride when driving normally, but as you start to push the car through corners the springs compresses and the ride firms up.
Linear rate springs compress in a uniform manner and should be more predictable.
Some people really like progressive springs for street use, but I don't. The progressive rate springs that I have used have not been that impressive.
In other words Progressive springs r great if you like to just cruse but if u rlly wana push ur car go linear its a more predictable ride.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

*Re: (Neb)*

years ago h&r had a rear spring that gave you that super low ride height with the adjuster in it. they looked like a bee hive .. heres a pic








i wonder what spring rate these are , or were.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BigBlackTiTTy* »_i thought of this .but if the spring is stiffer.. wouldnt the shock be working less , as there is less spring travel to have to control ?

No


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (Volc0mTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volc0mTT* »_
Audi TT MK1 (00-07) Coupe, Roadster - Quattro 225
Front Spring Rate (lbs/inch): 400
Rear Spring Rate (lbs/inch): Progressive
Thats what i have on my car and i would reccomend that for a daily/weekend play toy....

KW V2 and V3's both come out of the box with those rates. You can get 450lb fronts which come with the 3.2 TT and R32 set.
The progressive rears are what allow the KW's to feel good on the street. The ability to adjust compression and rebound on the V3's allows you to dial some of the progressiveness out with additional compression dampening although they won't be the same as linear springs.
Unless you are building a dedicated track car with the knowledge of how the TT's rear suspension works as well as a good understanding of shock dynamics and the ability to custom valve shocks - there is no need for linear springs.


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

then what do you suggest for the guy who wants to go real low, get it LOW, and be safe about it. i dont track my car, i dont even thrash it. but i want to be low. but also i dont want no bouncy ride, ,this aint a caddy with daytons on it,.


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## Volc0mTT (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

Lol Air ride ....


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

*air ride
ahhh way too much money .... lol


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BigBlackTiTTy* »_then what do you suggest for the guy who wants to go real low, get it LOW, and be safe about it. i dont track my car, i dont even thrash it. but i want to be low. but also i dont want no bouncy ride, ,this aint a caddy with daytons on it,.

Another car?
srsly though - get rear shocks that have adjustable dampening and put them on full stiff to compensate for shorter stiffer springs. It will ride like a rock - but you will achieve your goal.


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## bklnstunt718 (May 30, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i had those afco springs in!! hehe thanks to neb

umm car seemed fine... just felt as the rear wouldnt rebound the right way.. i felt as if the rear would just sink in after hitting a pothole..... 
anywayz... it looked a hundred times better than my vmaxx rears.. 
heres a pic..
















btw... when i went lower in the rear.. my tire rubbed like a mother effer! 
if i was to take out my rear perches i would of been on the floor!!


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

that looks real good.... nice pics.. what size are ur spacers ? those lm reps >?


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## bklnstunt718 (May 30, 2007)

yup... they were reps.. 
18x8 all around.. umm with offset of 35
front 15mm spacer
rear 25mm spacer


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

were ? 
what are you running now ?


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## bklnstunt718 (May 30, 2007)

im real high now...with some crappy wheels.. suppose to be picking some new wheels up this week.. maybe ill lower it a bit


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: (bklnstunt718)*









yeah you can get low(er) with those rear springs and no perches. 
I had that setup on the RS's..


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## Murderface (Nov 13, 2006)

_Quote, originally posted by *blknstunt718* »_im real high now...


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

thats a dope photo ben....


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## alby7781 (Jun 24, 2010)

hey neb did you use 600 or 800 lb afco springs? sorry got lost......


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## Mo)xie (Jun 12, 2011)

800# springs would be ridiculously bouncy. The spring would be taking all of the weight and strut would be not be allowed to properly rebound (as has already been stated). Find some progressives or do a 400# linear rate spring. I'm on the lookout right now for some progressives. I'll report what I find.

Edit - better yet, do the rebound adjustable vmaxx and a linear rate of 400-600#. Just for future ref.


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## Audi Boy TT (Feb 25, 2009)

Back from the dead.





TWICE!!! Mwahahaha:laugh:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Mo)xie said:


> 800# springs would be ridiculously bouncy. The spring would be taking all of the weight and strut would be not be allowed to properly rebound (as has already been stated).


Not if the strut is valved to match the spring rate. That's the point, you need the strut dampening to match the spring rate for a comfy ride. If either is too far from the other, you either bounce bounce bounce or are super damped.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

Mo)xie said:


> 800# springs would be ridiculously bouncy. The spring would be taking all of the weight and strut would be not be allowed to properly rebound (as has already been stated). Find some progressives or do a 400# linear rate spring. I'm on the lookout right now for some progressives. I'll report what I find.
> 
> Edit - better yet, do the rebound adjustable vmaxx and a linear rate of 400-600#. Just for future ref.


You need to do some more research on how spring and shocks work with each other. As opposed to what you are saying, springs are suppose to take all the weight (soft or stiff). The shock's job is only to control the velocity of the spring's movements in the two phases(compression and rebound).

As 20v pointed out as long as the shocks are valved for the springs from mid to high speed velocity(4 in/s and up, because that is the frequency encountered when hitting bumps and pot holes) bounciness should be nonexistent.

BTW because of the motion ratio in the back of the TT (0.63) 800 lbs springs is still soft for a 3000 lbs + car since:
800X0.63= 504 lbs of effective rate.
My car rides on 1300lbs rear springs without being bouncy because the shocks are valved to handle them.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that progressive springs are never a good idea simply because shocks do a poor job at controlling a the always changing non-linear rate.


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## Audi Boy TT (Feb 25, 2009)

I get the motion ratio reducing the spring rate in the back but how do you determine what effective spring rate to install in your car. (sorry if I'm babbling because I'm extremely tired). 

I am curious to understand how to choose a spring rate for a specific setup. Max, I see you've setup your rear at 1300 or 1100 (I'm not sure if you changed it or not) and if I read correctly 685 in the front. How did you come to choose these rates. Is it to make the spring rates effectively the same front to back? is it to change a theoretic weight distribution? 

In my over tired ramblings I must imagine that in order to make a car truly corner on rails you must put all the suspension formulas to work, but specifically with spring rates is the goal to compensate for the cars natural weight distribution, plus any variables such as a motion ratio to essentially recreate a perfect 50 50 balance? And if you get that balance from the rates is it truly the same as a car that actually balances out like that from the factory.

also randomly if I wanted to buy a set of coilovers could i order them from the company with a specific spring rate and have them revalve it for that spring or do i order a damper controllable coilover and request a specific spring rate and figure it out on my own?


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

Audi Boy TT said:


> I get the motion ratio reducing the spring rate in the back but how do you determine what effective spring rate to install in your car. (sorry if I'm babbling because I'm extremely tired).
> 
> I am curious to understand how to choose a spring rate for a specific setup. Max, I see you've setup your rear at 1300 or 1100 (I'm not sure if you changed it or not) and if I read correctly 685 in the front. How did you come to choose these rates. Is it to make the spring rates effectively the same front to back? is it to change a theoretic weight distribution?
> 
> ...


Very good question that belongs in my suspension thread floating around, maybe I'll copy and paste it to where it belongs!

Choosing spring rates can be subjective but there is some rational physics behind it that dictates what is optimal. As a first guideline, there are recommended Natural Frequencies(NF) for the purpose 
of the car. For example, a car that see double duty street/track, the recommended NF is between 2.7-3.0 Hz. ( a sporty street car only needs 2-2.5 Hz).

Now that you have a ball park where to start, the real work begins, ideally you want the least amount of spring possible to keep the car flat when turning ( around one degree of roll at full load ). Another thing that comes into play is that you want the rear wheel rates to be stiffer than 
the front because of the following - when the car hits a bump or an imperfection on the road , the front reacts first than the rear follows. Because the front reacted first, it also settles first( the rear is 
still oscillating), so what you do to make the car take a set at the same time? Make the rear react/settle faster by setting the rear springs stiffer than the front (0.5 Hz alway worked for me but others have even put more than that). 

There are softwares to help the process, I have a calculator that I can email to you that can make the task a cake, as long as you know what you are doing. As far as ordering "off the shelf" coilovers and having them valved with specific spring rates, only higher brands give that option. For example 
the AST coilovers for the platform can be ordered through Vorshlag valved with whatever springs you want. Bilstein does the same thing but you'd have to order directly from them and not a vendor. I have H&R RSS coilovers( Bilstein based) and just sent them to Ramone at Bilstein California to be valved to my specs ( sorry specs are top secret). The following list are all good shocks that can be custom valved:

-Bilstein pss/pss9
-H&R street and my favorite RSS ( my final spring rate is 700/1300)
-koni true specs ( made to order)
-Ground control Advance Designs ( have to order through ground control only)
-AST 4000 and 5000 series ( ordered through Vorshlag only)
-Motons ( big baller)
-Penske ( big baller)

*This video of my car a Waterfest autocross ( not me driving ) illustrates how the car is suppose to stay flat when cornering and the tire should stay in a happy spot through the camber curve.*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBt0oO2J6q4


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## Audi Boy TT (Feb 25, 2009)

transfering over to the suspension thread


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## andrewosky (May 17, 2004)

if I can help you I've custom support for rear spring and remove all rubber around spring..
I run Ap coilover and spring..
rear camber about -2.70
from








to


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## trixx (Dec 23, 2002)

if anyone's looking for a set of custom rear afco springs mine are up for grabs... i bought them off *bklnstunt718* after he went air ride... the i had them on the car and then went air ride... so if history continues to repeat itself, the next owners of these springs will eventually go air ride as well :laugh:

i thought they rode much nicer than the VMAXX springs as well... PM me if you're interested 

here's a pic with the afco springs, VMAXX perches and it still has room to go down a little


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

I guess I need to do custom 800 springs and polo mounts next summer


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## trixx (Dec 23, 2002)

my AFCOs are up for sale!
first come first serve 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-custom-rear-afco-springs-for-your-TT-quattro


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## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

Tempting.......


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