# The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...19837
I go over there to read up on other MKV topics once in a while. Not evryone finds there way to the 2.5 forum. 2 days in a row now I've run into rabbit bashers.


CtGTi77 said:


> oh god, i really want to say this slow so that every single 2.5L owner lets it sink in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CtGTi77* »_
oh god, i really want to say this slow so that every single 2.5L owner lets it sink in








you.....bought......an......economy......car......engineered......for......daily.......driving.......comfort......and.......fuel.....economy......if.......you......want.......lightning.......fast.......throttle......response.......and.......good........handling........and.......acceleration.........

*TRADE IT IN FOR A GTI!!!!!*


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## ahson (Jul 23, 2000)

That's human nature, plain and simple.
To be honest, some of us 'might' / 'could' do the same thing if all we have is a GTI, but not a Rabbit.


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## thedriver (Jul 3, 2006)

i don't get why some GTI owners bash us rabbit owners, i'v never seen so much hate b4. is it like this w/ MKIV's or MKIII's. WTF?


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (thedriver)*

maybe its cause the rabbit looks so much like the gti.maybe they're threatened by it.......... I dunno. I don't get it.


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## Apoc112 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: (thedriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thedriver* »_i don't get why some GTI owners bash us rabbit owners, i'v never seen so much hate b4. is it like this w/ MKIV's or MKIII's. WTF?
dude mkIII golf owners never got it so bad... i think a big part of it is that the GTI owners paid 5-10k more for their cars and they want the "cushion" of superiority to be much larger than it really is.
and if you run across anyone looking to decrease DBW lag, the K&N drop-in worked wonders for me.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

The technical content in this thread is overwhelming.


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## Maestor_Shake (May 10, 2004)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_The technical content in this thread is overwhelming.

quite.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

;-)....and you added to it as only you know how.I mean, as u usually do (with sarcasm).










_Modified by digitaltim at 11:09 PM 7-3-2007_


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## Deception (Oct 5, 2000)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (digitaltim)*

Precisely the reason why I don't read these forums often anymore. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_The technical content in this thread is overwhelming.

he's got a point i dont understand why people fill this section with stuff like this, stop stomping you feet and just blow it off not gonna help by complaining about it


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## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

GTI fanboi's are the reason I may not buy one next year. I may opt for an A3. I just can't get over how the community has changed. Sad really.


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## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_The technical content in this thread is overwhelming.

Maybe 2.5 owners need a place to go that is much better than the MKV forum. And just talk about crap. Even if it isn't technical. IDK.


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (Mike Gordon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mike Gordon* »_
Maybe 2.5 owners need a place to go that is much better than the MKV forum. And just talk about crap. Even if it isn't technical. IDK.

here
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...?f=13


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*

I know it isn't technical. there was another thread in here recently. some people said they don't know what "hate" the 2.5's are talking about. 
I thought I'd point it out.
You can tell by the thread title exactly what the discussion is...you entered and added non technical 2 cents too.. welcome to the party.


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_The technical content in this thread is overwhelming.

And you're posting in it because...?


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_maybe its cause the rabbit looks so much like the gti.maybe they're threatened by it...
I think you've hit the nail right on the head.


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (SLiMeX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLiMeX* »_I think you've hit the nail right on the head.

I agree... That, and the 2.5 isn't the complete dog the 2.0 was for the MKIV. The 1.8T and VR guys didn't feel threatened because it wasn't powerful at all. The 2.5 is a much more comparable engine now, and I think they have to resort to the "It's an economy car" argument to further separate themselves from us.


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (Apoc112)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Apoc112* »_dude mkIII golf owners never got it so bad... i think a big part of it is that the GTI owners paid 5-10k more for their cars and they want the "cushion" of superiority to be much larger than it really is.

Honestly, the mk3 and mk4 forums get it really bad... you can't say anything about the ABA or the mk4's various 2.0s without people telling you to buy/trade/swap in for a VR6 or 1.8T... the mk3 forum isn't toooo bad, but the mk4 forum is a nightmare.
As much as I hate to say it, there should be some kind of warning on any of those forums not to post anything about modding a base motor... And most people who've been on the Vortex for a while seem to know better than to do that.
The saddest thing is when you've got people who've put a lot of time and work in their car and actually made some solid gains, then get people running their mouths bashing them.
But most of those people never go anywhere else other than their respective mk-whatever forum... not even their own technical forums. Most of them don't know what they're doing.


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## veedubb87 (Mar 28, 2006)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (digitaltim)*

















that red car is clearly econ, since it has throttle lag!!!!!















don't listen to those idiots


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## p c (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (Slipstream)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slipstream* »_
And you're posting in it because...? 

this is a technical forum and bitching about GTI owners is not technically technical knowledge


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (p c)*

It's all these fooking ex Honda and Japanese car owners. 
They haven't been a part of the VAG family before, so they just come and hate. 
It's hilarious because no one ever hated on my B5 A4 1.8T and that car was slower than my Rabbit is.


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (silverA4quattro)*

The new owners are, typically, the worst...
But seriously, the guy on the thread in question doesn't know the difference between turbo lag and the response time associated with drive-by-wire... IMO, though, anybody with the dumb "get a 2.0T/1.8T/VR6" comment when it doesn't answer the actual question should be docked points.


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## BartVW (Jul 1, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*

Look alike? They're the same car, only the rabbit came earlier (as a Golf in europe). And I think it's an awesome car, I really like the 5 cylinder grunt.


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## p c (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (silverA4quattro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverA4quattro* »_It's all these fooking ex Honda and Japanese car owners. 


Im a ex Honda owner and I take offense to that statement. The Honda scene is actually much closer then the VW scene. There is very little crap talk on the forums http://www.honda-tech.com and much more tech. Reading those forums you learn something (turbo single cam/ engine swaps ect...) over here people are scared to take off their wheels and have to pay to have intakes installed








*The Old Honda* 








*VW*


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## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: (silverA4quattro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverA4quattro* »_
It's hilarious because no one ever hated on my B5 A4 1.8T and that car was slower than my Rabbit is. 

No kidding. Now you'll just get hate because it an old slow turbo.








I should know, I have a 2000 GTI.


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## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

not to rain on your parades...but atleast you seem to get some "street cred" for having a rabbit...people think its cool etc.. because of its heritage... 
however if youve got just a 2.5 jetta... your SOL... its looked upon as worse than the rabbit, even tho their relatively the same car


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (p c)*


_Quote, originally posted by *p c* »_
this is a technical forum and bitching about GTI owners is not technically technical knowledge

It'll be okay.


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## Apoc112 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: (p c)*


_Quote, originally posted by *p c* »_
over here people are scared to take off their wheels and have to pay to have intakes installed










that's because you're hearing from all new car buyers... mkIII forums are a whole different world. it'll be a while before anyone really grows a pair in the mkV forums (save for an elite few). mkIII forums had plenty of cool one-off custom jobs like GTI-truck conversions, tri-turbo VR6's, homemade wide-body kits tuckin' 10" wide wheels, and true coupe conversions for Jettas... i can't imagine many people having the stones to be so bold with a spankin' new $20k car still under warranty.
...and FWIW, i find silverA4quattro's comment to be sadly true... there are quite a few people in the mkV forums new to the VW scene who come here with some kinda god complex about driving a VW or having the 2.0T over the 2.5... it seems like anyone that's been around the VAG scene long enough knows the 2.5 is the best base motor VW has ever had and respects any/all vw's and their owners.







to you, sir, for being a respectable new owner.


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## Sarge_MK5 (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: (dead0narrivel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dead0narrivel* »_not to rain on your parades...but atleast you seem to get some "street cred" for having a rabbit...people think its cool etc.. because of its heritage... 
however if youve got just a 2.5 jetta... your SOL... its looked upon as worse than the rabbit, even tho their relatively the same car

I'm not really sure about the Jetta part, as I've had some (re: only 2) GTI owners and some Honda owners comment on my car.


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## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

*Re: (Sarge_MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sarge_MK5* »_
I'm not really sure about the Jetta part, as I've had some (re: only 2) GTI owners and some Honda owners comment on my car.









do you post frequently in the mkV forum?


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## ZippinVeeDub (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: (dead0narrivel)*

Yup its GTI>GLI/Jetta 2.oT>Jetta TDI>Rabbit Manual>Rabbit Auto>Jetta 2.5 Manual> Jetta 2.5 Auto 








I drive the last one.
edit** On a Technical Note I like your wheels and tires p c I have the same setup


_Modified by ZippinVeeDub at 1:22 PM 7-5-2007_


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (ZippinVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZippinVeeDub* »_Yup its GTI>GLI/Jetta 2.oT>Jetta TDI>Rabbit Manual>Rabbit Auto>Jetta 2.5 Manual> Jetta 2.5 Auto 








I drive the last one.
edit** On a Technical Note I like your wheels and tires p c I have the same setup

_Modified by ZippinVeeDub at 1:22 PM 7-5-2007_

You forgot the GTI > fahrenheit


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## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

I've had a lot of people comment on my Jetta. Not many VW owners around my area, but I do get the occasional "nice car," and now since the intake, "WOW"
;D


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## Blacksheepsquad (Mar 25, 2007)

*Re: (kaner05jetta)*

Good to see this forum is still full of whiny broads. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (Blacksheepsquad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blacksheepsquad* »_Good to see this forum is still full of whiny broads. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

and I believe the proper term for you is---> bigot


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (Blacksheepsquad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blacksheepsquad* »_Good to see this forum is still full of whiny broads. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Do you ever post anything worth reading?


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_
Do you ever post anything worth reading?

Do you?


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Do you?

Nah, just an entire thread dedicated to helping people with tire questions and decisions.


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## Blacksheepsquad (Mar 25, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Do you?

Yeah, he helped me with my tires. Don't bag on the guy like that...
As for me, yeah I do post stuff worth reading, everything I type. But if you were referring to "helping" people then check the detail forum...


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## Blacksheepsquad (Mar 25, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_
and I believe the proper term for you is---> bigot









I was gonna put bitches. I restrained myself though...


_Modified by Blacksheepsquad at 4:38 PM 7-5-2007_


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Do you?

Meh, because I shot your octane theory down, don't be hatin'


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (Blacksheepsquad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blacksheepsquad* »_
Yeah, he helped me with my tires. Don't bag on the guy like that...
As for me, yeah I do post stuff worth reading, everything I type. But if you were referring to "helping" people then check the detail forum...

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_
Meh, because I shot your octane theory down, don't be hatin'









My octane theory based on your work with NON motronic based ECU's. lol. You guys don't want technical help. You just want a boys club.


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## Sarge_MK5 (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: (dead0narrivel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dead0narrivel* »_
do you post frequently in the mkV forum? 

No, and as a matter of fact I try as hard as I can to stay away from it.


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## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

I say, let 'em hate. Whoever the haters may be. 
I'm a complete n00b about cars and you guys here (on the 2.5 forums) have taught me allot about my car and whats it is capable of. Just today I sat down with one of my good friends who owns a mkiv gli 1.8t. I simply wrote down the bolt on mods, (intake, exhaust, chip and soon to be headers) and expected gains that the 2.5 can acheive, all under what? 1,200 dollars? (A very LOOSE estimate) but still, we could be in the ball park of 180, 190 hp with 200+ fpt? Under the sticker price of a GTI? That my friends is very uber.
When the 08s are out they will come stock with 170! I mean jeez talk about sneaking up on the 2.0t. 
Again, the 2.5 is the Scheize, and hell I can say that proundly any place anywhere. Let the haters hate, there will be plenty of them. God I love ranting incoherently!
-werd..
-my .02 1/2 cents



_Modified by Uberbunni at 5:26 PM 7-5-2007_


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (Uberbunni)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 















I don't think of the upgrades in terms of catching up to the GTI, cause let's face it........with the simple bolt ons, its not happening. Close to the stock GTI yes, but still worlds apart in terms of performance.
I do think of the upgrades as a new hobby. Some thing to learn and be excited about! The 2.5L is an awesome engine. Everything for it is new.......so there's always that feeling of 'what next'.
I can't wait to see what a turbo or supercharger will do. Then your rabbit will cost more than a GTI and the tables should be turned.



_Modified by digitaltim at 5:36 PM 7-5-2007_


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_I can't wait to see what a turbo or supercharger will do.

_Modified by digitaltim at 5:34 PM 7-5-2007_

a supercharger helped the old 2.0 liter out quite a bit so I'm sure it's going to be amazing on the 2.5!
It'll be interesting to see if Audi will in fact use an inline 5 turbo in a future car as has been speculated. I wonder how much different it will be from the one you guys are driving around...


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_ 
I don't think of the upgrades in terms of catching up to the GTI, cause let's face it........with the simple bolt ons, its not happening. Close to the stock GTI yes, but still worlds apart in terms of performance.


That depends on how you are competeing with a GTI.....

I sat in a $28,000 GTI on monday when I was getting my first oil change at the dealer...I couldnt really find where the extra $13,000 was...


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*

"in terms of performance" were the key words there.
yeah.......I know . They're practically the same in terms of everything else.
I bet the interior is a little nicer. I'm not thrilled with the stock cloth of the rabbit.....maybe its a good fabric. I don't know. Comfortable, but feels cheap to the touch..... 

Did $28k at least include leather? 
This thread has taken an ugly technical turn....lol, j/k


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_"in terms of performance" were the key words there.
yeah.......I know . They're practically the same in terms of everything else.
I bet the interior is a little nicer. I'm not thrilled with the stock cloth of the rabbit.....maybe its a good fabric. I don't know. Comfortable, but feels cheap to the touch..... 

Did $28k at least include leather? 
This thread has taken an ugly technical turn....lol, j/k

The 4 door fabric feels quite nice IMO.


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

i like boobs


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (silverA4quattro)*

velour.that stuff is awesome. wish I had it.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_i like boobs








 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I enjoy cereal for breakfast!


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_"in terms of performance" were the key words there.
yeah.......I know . They're practically the same in terms of everything else.
I bet the interior is a little nicer. I'm not thrilled with the stock cloth of the rabbit.....maybe its a good fabric. I don't know. Comfortable, but feels cheap to the touch..... 

Did $28k at least include leather? 
This thread has taken an ugly technical turn....lol, j/k

Yeah this was a Package 2 GTI 2 door...it had it all....haha
I don't think VW's are drag cars so I don't compare them at that...I think of VW's as fun "country road" cars...and My rabbit performs quite nicely on the country roads in SW Missouri... and it does awesome on an AutoX track..... granted I would love to have some more power....
but iif you can drive fast with 80hp.......800hp isnt going to help


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_i like boobs









I concur.


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_i like boobs









I am a butt man myself, but you can't turn down a nice set of bewbs, that's for sure. 
I have no idea why someone would spend 28k on a GTI... I would MUCH rather have an A3 at that price.


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_
I am a butt man myself, but you can't turn down a nice set of bewbs, that's for sure. 
I have no idea why someone would spend 28k on a GTI... I would MUCH rather have an A3 at that price. 

Butt Men Unite!


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## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

No way I'm ever paying 28K for a GTI. I'd gladly pay 21-22K for a pkg. 0 or pick up a used pkg.1 for that price. I might pay 25-26k if I could get an Edition 30 for that price. And I may be doing just that next year when it's time to retire the MKIV.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

I got my package 1 GTI for just under 21k so I guess I can't really understand the 28k number but then again the dealer in town isn't the best VW dealer I've ever dealt with...


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_I got my package 1 GTI for just under 21k so I guess I can't really understand the 28k number but then again the dealer in town isn't the best VW dealer I've ever dealt with...

Plus taxes, tags, fees right?
So you talked them down to 21K from sticker?


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## Apoc112 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_velour.that stuff is awesome. wish I had it.
if you're at all serious, i'll trade you straight up.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (silverA4quattro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverA4quattro* »_
Plus taxes, tags, fees right?
So you talked them down to 21K from sticker?

Yeah, that included the bulljive delivery and dealer advertising B.S. charges and everything. I get a deal through my work. No talking necessary. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
There's no way I would have bought a new car let along a new GTI if I couldn't get this deal.


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## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Yeah, that included the bulljive delivery and dealer advertising B.S. charges and everything. I get a deal through my work. No talking necessary. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
There's no way I would have bought a new car let along a new GTI if I couldn't get this deal.


anndd where do you work and how can i apply?


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (Apoc112)*

I don't think the Jetta and rabbit seats are the same.
I already spent $255 for wetokoles too.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_I don't think the Jetta and rabbit seats are the same.
I already spent $255 for wetokoles too.

That would be crazy if VW made completely different seats. I'd almost say it's highly unlikely given the nature of the cars they were destined to be used in...


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

The only reason I think they might be different is because while I was shopping for seat covers I found a set for the new Jetta that supposedly would not fit the rabbit. Maybe the seller didn't know what he was talking about.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_The only reason I think they might be different is because while I was shopping for seat covers I found a set for the new Jetta that supposedly would not fit the rabbit. Maybe the seller didn't know what he was talking about.

It's probably the vendor. At this point i'm still buying aftermarket parts as if I owned a new Audi A3 because vendors haven't figured out that the FWD 2.0T FSI A3 is (essentially) the same car as the GTI...


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_The only reason I think they might be different is because while I was shopping for seat covers I found a set for the new Jetta that supposedly would not fit the rabbit. Maybe the seller didn't know what he was talking about.

Obviously the rear seats are different, maybe that's why he was confused, but I imagine the fronts are the same.


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## flynavyj (Jan 26, 2007)

I've got the "leatherette" seats in my jetta, and have absolutely no complaints about them. Although, if i was purchasing a BMW, i'd go w/ the faux leather as well, as it wears beautifully, unlike real leather that looks like burt rynolds face after a few sits. 
I'd have to wonder about the performance of the jetta vs that of the GLI/GTI even after modifications. While the jetta will be getting 180-190 horsepower @ the crank, that's the estimate w/ drivetrain loses. The GTI was still making 10 more @ the crank from rated, and if our cars are underrated @ 150hp, then i'd believe there's are underrated at 200 hp...but that's just me, same note = DSG will be > than Auto...and 6 speed > manual 5 speed, but who knows how it'd go. 
agreed with all posts though, VW not a drag car...get it on the backroads, and go to town.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (flynavyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flynavyj* »_and 6 speed > manual 5 speed

dude, i so wish i had a 5 speed instead of a 6 speed for autox. hitting the rev limit in 2nd gear for several seconds sucks....


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
dude, i so wish i had a 5 speed instead of a 6 speed for autox. hitting the rev limit in 2nd gear for several seconds sucks....

wanna trade cars then?


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## Scratchmaster_J (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 















I don't think of the upgrades in terms of catching up to the GTI, cause let's face it........with the simple bolt ons, its not happening. Close to the stock GTI yes, but still worlds apart in terms of performance._Modified by digitaltim at 5:36 PM 7-5-2007_

I dunno what your comparing here, but if luxury is performance then that's news to me. If stiffer sway bars, shocks & springs, and a 50hp difference is "worlds apart" for you then we're in trouble. A 2006 Lancer ES (base model) pushes 120Hp while a 2006 Lancer Evo pushes 286Hp, now that is a difference in"worlds apart" performance. So honestly quit making the GTI seem like its anywhere near equivalent to those machines like the Evo, STi's power range.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_
wanna trade cars then?

only gear ratios


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
only gear ratios

Im not sure if you would like the long gears with the turbo for AutoX..... Our A4 has the 2.0tfsi and some really long gears.... not good for AutoX...2nd gear 20mph sucks...so getting out of the corners is really slow...
The rabbits gears are perfect for the 2.5L http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to VW on that one...


----------



## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_
The rabbits gears are perfect for the 2.5L http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to VW on that one...









Indeed... all the random people who whine about not having a six-speed are crazy (someone said that on TCL, too, that the Sentra having a six-speed and Rabbit not was some kind of huge mistake on VW's part).


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

why dont most gti owners like our wonderful 2.5s? until a week ago i thought gtis had around 250 hp. when i learned they had 200 hp i almost crapped my pants. gti owners make the cars seem like they are damn good.... 200 hp is crap for 25k. if i put 5k extra into my rabbit making it 22k ide have a close to 280 hp car. gti owners also might be mad because mazda has a car for the same price but it has much better in every way. unless their gti is putting out over 250 hp(to the wheels) and have only spend a a grand they have no right to talk.


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (Scratchmaster_J)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scratchmaster_J* »_
I dunno what your comparing here, but if luxury is performance then that's news to me. If stiffer sway bars, shocks & springs, and a 50hp difference is "worlds apart" for you then we're in trouble. A 2006 Lancer ES (base model) pushes 120Hp while a 2006 Lancer Evo pushes 286Hp, now that is a difference in"worlds apart" performance. So honestly quit making the GTI seem like its anywhere near equivalent to those machines like the Evo, STi's power range. 

go ahead and spend thousands and keep thinking of your upgrades as trying to catch the GTi. <---cause that's what I was saying doesn't make sense....
I just don't think of it in those terms. 
I'm just trying to be a realist. There'a a reason the GTI costs $7k more.
sure......ok....I could litterally spend thousands in bolt ons / chipped.whatever......just to try to get close to the stock GTI's power and speed. Are we going to with these nonturbo bolt ons? I don't think so.
The GTi is a turbo. I think that's enough to say worlds apart in terms of performance.
chip a GTI with what? maybe $400?...and its going to blow a heavily modded rabbit away.
Go ahead and pretend all you want. That's reality.
they also share the same body etc. I think that's enough to say they have a lot in common too. Other than the engine its practically the same car.
So when talking about upgrading the rabbit in terms of comparing it to a GTI (which is what I was writing about ) I don't think we should.


----------



## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*

The most I've seen out of a Rabbit thus far has been articles/features on Neuspeed's turbo kit... at 230hp.
But... Some people have reported getting 180whp on modded 2.5... Making another 20 at the crank in 2008 will probably end up with another 10 or so at the wheels to begin with... then again, do the same mods on the 2.0T (chip, exhaust, intake) and you're looking at mid-200's.
But the 2.5 is the bigger engine... and once the aftermarket is there, you will probably be able to do more with it... but you'd need parts to drop compression, mild cams, forced induction... maybe a short runner intake... or even going allmotor, you're still going to need cams and an adjustable gear(s?) if you deck the head or anything like that (to increase compression).
It's coming, but your biggest issue is that this isn't some motor they've been selling in Europe... it's new, and it's our market.
I think a base GTI is a good deal... I don't see the point in all the package pricing though, it gets ridiculous.


_Modified by ninety9gl at 11:01 PM 7-7-2007_


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## Scratchmaster_J (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_
go ahead and spend thousands and keep thinking of your upgrades as trying to catch the GTi. <---cause that's what I was saying doesn't make sense....
I'm just trying to be a realist. There'a a reason the GTI costs $7k more.
sure......ok....I could litterally spend thousands in bolt ons / chipped.whatever......just to try to get close to the stock GTI's power and speed. Are we going to with these nonturbo bolt ons? I don't think so.
The GTi is a turbo. I think that's enough to say worlds apart in terms of performance.
chip a GTI with what? maybe $400?...and its going to blow a heavily modded rabbit away.
Go ahead and pretend all you want. That's reality.
they also share the same body etc. I think that's enough to say they have a lot in common too. Other than the engine its practically the same car.
So when talking about upgrading the rabbit in terms of comparing it to a GTI (which is what I was writing about ) I don't think we should. 


Dude, it is not going to take $7K to make a Rabbit achieve the numbers the GTI makes. As far as turbo, unless its equipped with DSG you got lag otherwise you're spending thousands on a twin ceramic ball bearing turbo to deal with the lag. As far as the price difference goes, just look at the interiors... enough said. The "reality" is that we're closer than you think, and that scares you.


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (Scratchmaster_J)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scratchmaster_J* »_
Dude, it is not going to take $7K to make a Rabbit achieve the numbers the GTI makes. As far as turbo, unless its equipped with DSG you got lag otherwise you're spending thousands on a twin ceramic ball bearing turbo to deal with the lag. As far as the price difference goes, just look at the interiors... enough said. The "reality" is that we're closer than you think, and that scares you. 

scares me? That doesn't make any sense. 
I have the rabbit.
I didn't say it'd take $7k, but now that you mention it I wouldn't be surprised if it did. hehehe.


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

Personally I'm a bit more excited about diving into the N/A tuning scene that just the simple old chip tuning etc of a turbo motor. 
I have a GTI 1.8T that can be modded pretty easily and I previously had a B5 A4 which has endless possibilities. 
It's pretty neat to have this new engine with so much to be seen yet.


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## Scratchmaster_J (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*

Sorry I didnt look under your name. 


_Modified by Scratchmaster_J at 10:54 PM 7-7-2007_


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## maxattack (May 4, 2006)

Rabbit hate is inversely porportionate to the ***** size of gti owners! LOL. Seriously , Who cares. They are BOTH VW's! Hate on the ricers, not each other. Dollar for dollar both cars are great values in there class!


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## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

Okay so I just got back from cruising around with my cousin who has a very nice 98 jetta vr6. If im not mistaken it pushes around 170 hp or so?. I've ALWAYS loved and will love the vr6.
Our 2.5s in my opinion is like the vr6 (I know, we have all heard it before.) But with a few quick bolts on mods we are in that vr6 power zone that I grew to love. That to me makes all the difference to me. 
Now, I can't speak for all you guys and girls on the tex but I mean think about being in a 170 or 180 vr6.

That momentary feeling of being trapped in your seat as soon as you push it to its max. To me its that feeling when you know the car has got you strapped in for a hell of a ride. 
I don't know about you guys but thats what I think having a dub is all about. Our 2.5s are WAY WAY more than capable to get me to that automotive nirvana. 2.5 owners UNITE!
-werd


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (Uberbunni)*

yeah man...........like when you're getting on to the highway behind a tractor trailer....move over to the left lane, drop it in to 3rd and zip past. 
3rd gear, 40 to 80MPH is exhilarating.
I doubt most of the haters have even driven a 2.5


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## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

not trying to offend nobody, i drive an 06 2.5l bug, but I think the 2.5 is the problem.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *71DubBugBug* »_not trying to offend nobody, i drive an 06 2.5l bug, but I think the 2.5 is the problem. 

what problem do you see it has...


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## Henrietta (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *71DubBugBug* »_not trying to offend nobody, i drive an 06 2.5l bug, but I think the 2.5 is the problem. 

Go get a bug with the 2.slow and get back to us then.


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (Henrietta)*

The thing that bugs me is that honestly, the GTI's with a chip are making what, 220 to the ground running on 18 - 20 pounds of boost? Honestly that is pathetic. Theoretically, 14.7 psi will double your power. Now, let's account for some loss here and say that 16 psi will double your power, that means the 2.0 by itself is only making about 100 beans. Sure, it's low compression and large overlap cams, but still not very good. 
I figured they made about 7 or 8 psi stock, and maybe 12 chipped. When I heard 18 - 20 I was amazed.



_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 9:40 AM 7-12-2007_


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## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

I have never seen anything more idiotic than what that CtGTi77 guy posted. What a retard. You 2.5 guys just need to not let anyone with a "Ferrari Complex" get to you. As long as you like your car, thats all that matters, who gives a **** what some dude on some internet forum thinks or says about it.


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## EMunEEE (Mar 28, 2005)

*Re: (that1guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *that1guy* »_I have never seen anything more idiotic than what that CtGTi77 guy posted. What a retard. You 2.5 guys just need to not let anyone with a "Ferrari Complex" get to you. As long as you like your car, thats all that matters, who gives a **** what some dude on some internet forum thinks or says about it. 

QFT. You bought your car. You Like it. /Story


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_The thing that bugs me is that honestly, the GTI's with a chip are making what, 220 to the ground running on 18 - 20 pounds of boost? Honestly that is pathetic. Theoretically, 14.7 psi will double your power. Now, let's account for some loss here and say that 16 psi will double your power, that means the 2.0 by itself is only making about 100 beans. *Sure, it's low compression *and large overlap cams, but still not very good. 
I figured they made about 7 or 8 psi stock, and maybe 12 chipped. When I heard 18 - 20 I was amazed.


_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 9:40 AM 7-12-2007_

The 2.0tfsi engine has 10.2:1 compression FYI...


----------



## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_The thing that bugs me is that honestly, the GTI's with a chip are making what, 220 to the ground running on 18 - 20 pounds of boost? Honestly that is pathetic. Theoretically, 14.7 psi will double your power. Now, let's account for some loss here and say that 16 psi will double your power, that means the 2.0 by itself is only making about 100 beans. Sure, it's low compression and large overlap cams, but still not very good. 
I figured they made about 7 or 8 psi stock, and maybe 12 chipped. When I heard 18 - 20 I was amazed.

_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 9:40 AM 7-12-2007_

The Naturally Aspirated 2.0 FSI makes 150 hp. The North American Turbo FSI motors is 10.3:1 compression ratio. You should probably re-examine the cam specs you seem to have made up because overlap on a turbo motor is not good.
Please stop posting false (and essentially useless) information which you try to use to belittle another motor (yes, you really are doing something as ridiculous as that just sounded) which is exactly the reason you guys started this thread.
Just another example of why I'm right about this whole thing just being an inferiority thing...


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Just another example of why I'm right about this whole thing just being an inferiority thing...









How can you deny the haters exhist?
It has nothing to do with an inferiority complex and all to do with @ssholes making ridiculous statements about the 2.5 just because they drive a faster car. As quoted in the first thread. The MKV forum is full of 2.5 knockers.
Oh......and once again......thanx for contributing to our "non technical" thread








no offense


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## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

here is what it has to do with:
Certain GTI owners think they drive a car thats leaps and bounds over the 2.5 liter model, and they state stupid ****, therefore attacking the 2.5 model, and the 2.5 guys defend it. It has more to do with what I call the "ferrari complex" of some GTI owners.
I like the 2.5L engine, and for what its meant to do, it does it very well. when people want to mod the 2.5, I don't know why some 2.0t guys tell them to not waste their time. By all means, anyone with a RWD platform can tell any 2.0t owner to not waste their time doing **** to a FWD econobox. Enjoy your car, and don't bash other people's ****. Its not your decision what they do with their car, and show some respect. They aren't driving a 10,000 dollar ****ing chevy aveo, they are still driving a 17,000 brand new car, and a VW nevertheless. 


_Modified by that1guy at 5:11 PM 7-13-2007_


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## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

*Re: (that1guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *that1guy* »_here is what it has to do with:
Certain GTI owners think they drive a car thats leaps and bounds over the 2.5 liter model, and they state stupid ****, therefore attacking the 2.5 model, and the 2.5 guys defend it. It has more to do with what I call the "ferrari complex" of some GTI owners.
I like the 2.5L engine, and for what its meant to do, it does it very well. when people want to mod the 2.5, I don't know why some 2.0t guys tell them to not waste their time. By all means, anyone with a RWD platform can tell any 2.0t owner to not waste their time doing **** to a FWD econobox. Enjoy your car, and don't bash other people's ****. Its not your decision what they do with their car, and show some respect. They aren't driving a 10,000 dollar ****ing chevy aveo, they are still driving a 17,000 brand new car, and a VW nevertheless. 

_Modified by that1guy at 5:11 PM 7-13-2007_

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Words of wisdom.


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## thedriver (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: (Uberbunni)*

^

_Quote, originally posted by *Uberbunni* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Words of wisdom.

x1000


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## prd2drva2.5 (Jul 14, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Just another example of why I'm right about this whole thing just being an inferiority thing...

Thanks for your backdoor psychology mag, but the above comment just goes to show that you are far less inteligent than you think you are. 
A 2.0 owner started this whole thing with his inflamed remarks about the 2.5, hence the instant attack on the 2.0. Do you really think 2.5 owners should just sit down and take it? Sorry, not in our nature. We love our cars. 

If someone made over-the-top statements generalizing all 2.0 owners, you would throw a fit... oh... wait... you've already done that. 
It seems rather clear that, with the lack of respect that 2.5 owners get in the MKV forum, this is a safe haven for them/us, be it for tech stuff or just to BS about our cars. Certain folks need to get over the thought that all 2.5 owners would be driving a GTI if they could afford it. It's just not true. A few... yes, but not all. 
Some 2.5 owners are good folk, some aren't. Same with GTI owners. Figure out which you are before it gets chosen for you.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (prd2drva2.5)*

here's a tidbit from today in the MKV forum:
The guy was asking if he should buy a corrado or rabbit. He didn't ask anything about the GTI.

_Quote, originally posted by *bharv2003* »_I say go for it and get a GTI, rabbits are slow. FTW!!!


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (prd2drva2.5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prd2drva2.5* »_
Thanks for your backdoor psychology mag, but the above comment just goes to show that you are far less inteligent than you think you are. 
A 2.0 owner started this whole thing with his inflamed remarks about the 2.5, hence the instant attack on the 2.0. Do you really think 2.5 owners should just sit down and take it? Sorry, not in our nature. We love our cars. 

If someone made over-the-top statements generalizing all 2.0 owners, you would throw a fit... oh... wait... you've already done that. 
It seems rather clear that, with the lack of respect that 2.5 owners get in the MKV forum, this is a safe haven for them/us, be it for tech stuff or just to BS about our cars. Certain folks need to get over the thought that all 2.5 owners would be driving a GTI if they could afford it. It's just not true. A few... yes, but not all. 
Some 2.5 owners are good folk, some aren't. Same with GTI owners. Figure out which you are before it gets chosen for you. 


I have no problem with the 2.5 at all. I've worked with my friends quite a bit on this motor and I'd like to think I've contributed a lot of good info in this _technical_ thread. What absolutely drives me insane is how you guys can get so uptight about people who pick on you guys so you proceed to start your own non-technical thread in a technical area in which I've read complaint after complaint which have included people making fun of the 2.0T FSI motor. If you guys can't see the hypocrisy in that then there's nothing I can do about it. But you guys seriously need to see how absolutely ridiculous this thread is and take care of your problems where they've started which is in the mkV threads. I realize you guys feel you need a place to vent and band together or whatever but a technical thread isn't it. If the 2.5 technical thread actually had an active moderator...


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_here's a tidbit from today in the MKV forum:
The guy was asking if he should buy a corrado or rabbit. He didn't ask anything about the GTI.


Then make your car fast and prove him wrong. Until then you will never convince anyone otherwise. Especially when you keep posting this bull in a technical thread.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

That's not the point.
Why would I need to make it faster to prove anything? I know you're getting beat in the autocross by a rabbit..does that mean you need to make your GTI faster? That doesn't make sense. I have to agree with prd2drva2.5 ---you're losing credibility daily.
I don;t care if the GTi is faster...... If I drove a real sports car I wouldn't call the GTi slow, because #1 who cares....and #2 that'd make me an @sshole. that's the point.
the rabbit isn't slow...jus tbecause someone owns a GTi doesn;t mean the rabbit is slow.
and you keep pretending the @ssholes don't exhist. Well i'm calling them out...and I do respond to them where they originally post.
Furthermore......no one is bashing the 2.0T

_Modified by digitaltim at 11:47 AM 7-14-2007_


_Modified by digitaltim at 11:55 AM 7-14-2007_


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_
Furthermore......no one is bashing the 2.0T
_Modified by digitaltim at 11:47 AM 7-14-2007_

Wrong.

_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_The thing that bugs me is that honestly, the GTI's with a chip are making what, 220 to the ground running on 18 - 20 pounds of boost? Honestly that is pathetic. Theoretically, 14.7 psi will double your power. Now, let's account for some loss here and say that 16 psi will double your power, that means the 2.0 by itself is only making about 100 beans. Sure, it's low compression and large overlap cams, but still not very good. 
I figured they made about 7 or 8 psi stock, and maybe 12 chipped. When I heard 18 - 20 I was amazed.
_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 9:40 AM 7-12-2007_

Not only is he making fun of the 2.0T FSI, but he's also doing it without actually knowing anything about what he's trying to say. It's annoying on multiple levels...


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

I don't comprehend that the same way you do.
I see a guy ( one person.not people) expecting more from the engine. Right or wrong I don't think he's really knocking GTI owners. I think he believes the engine should be capable of more in relation to other engines.
yeah in a way "pathetic" does knock the engine........ one guy's opinion.
not exactly the level of hate the 2.5 is getting


_Modified by digitaltim at 12:01 PM 7-14-2007_


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_I don't comprehend that the same way you do.
I see a guy ( one person.not people) expecting more from the engine. Right or wrong I don't think he's really knocking GTI owners. I think he believes the engine should be capable of more in relation to other engines.
yeah in a way "pathetic" does knock the engine........ one guy's opinion.
not exactly the level of hate the 2.5 is getting

_Modified by digitaltim at 12:01 PM 7-14-2007_

I'll agree with you there, the 2.5 gets bashed a lot more. I just don't see why you guys even care. I mean it really only affects you if you want to... So go out and drive.
And buy Vag-Coms and test your own mods or anything! You guys need to be figuring this motor out a lot more! And then post the info in this _technical_ thread!


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
The Naturally Aspirated 2.0 FSI makes 150 hp. The North American Turbo FSI motors is 10.3:1 compression ratio. You should probably re-examine the cam specs you seem to have made up because overlap on a turbo motor is not good.
Please stop posting false (and essentially useless) information which you try to use to belittle another motor (yes, you really are doing something as ridiculous as that just sounded) which is exactly the reason you guys started this thread.
Just another example of why I'm right about this whole thing just being an inferiority thing...

Are the specs for the naturally aspirated and turbo 2.0's the same? In other words, is the TFSI simply a 2.0 FSI with a turbo on it? No other changes? Cams... nothing?
If that is the case, I'll eat my words, no problem. The math doesn't really compute though, 150 + 12 psi should be around 250 horsepower. Obviously there are variables. 
I'm not really trying to downplay anything. I readily admit the GTI is a cooler car with more power and probably more fun to drive. Anybody that thinks a Rabbit is a better car is clearly wrong. It may be better for their intended purpose, but in the overall scheme of things, of course not. 
It was a typo on my cam specs, I obviously meant low, and typed large... My mistake. I do have a lot more nitrous experience than boost, although I did have an S trim on my car back in the day. Never had a turbo car though







.



_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 4:31 PM 7-17-2007_


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Not only is he making fun of the 2.0T FSI, but he's also doing it without actually knowing anything about what he's trying to say. It's annoying on multiple levels...

















Why are you in this forum anyway? You want to sit in here and tell us all we should run 89 octane, and how we should all sit back and be the laughing stock of the MkV world... Just because I challenged your whole octane thing does mean it's (or you're) wrong, it doesn't mean it's unfounded and ridiculous that perhaps the 2.5 does make more power with better fuel. I even said that when I replied to you in that thread, but for some reason you took it personally. 
Now, in here, I type something incorrectly (and then don't check the thread for a week) and twice you have called me out on a typo. Another time you have asked if I post anything worth reading, which I was thankfully defended by a few guys who happened to have read my advice thread on another board. 
I don't mind having a civil discussion, I actually enjoy it... But when it turns into crap like this it's just frustrating. I am new to the VW world, so forgive me if I don't the ins and outs of everything mechanical that has to do with the brand. 



_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 4:51 PM 7-17-2007_


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_
Are the specs for the naturally aspirated and turbo 2.0's the same? In other words, is the TFSI simply a 2.0 FSI with a turbo on it? No other changes? Cams... nothing?
If that is the case, I'll eat my words, no problem. The math doesn't really compute though, 150 + 12 psi should be around 250 horsepower. Obviously there are variables. 
I'm not really trying to downplay anything. I readily admit the GTI is a cooler car with more power and probably more fun to drive. Anybody that thinks a Rabbit is a better car is clearly wrong. It may be better for their intended purpose, but in the overall scheme of things, of course not. 
It was a typo on my cam specs, I obviously meant low, and typed large... My mistake. I do have a lot more nitrous experience than boost, although I did have an S trim on my car back in the day. Never had a turbo car though







.

_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 4:31 PM 7-17-2007_

so true... mathematically 14.7 is 100% increase. when i found out gtis made 200 hp and not 260 which makes sense with how good most gti drives make them "seem" i almost died with laughter. as you stated before, if they are really putting out 16 psi due to a chip and arent putting 300+ to the wheels.... wow. if a TC can make 250 whp at 8psi and a mazda3 makes 450 whp at 17 psi then whats wrong with the gti?


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sl33pyb* »_
mazda3 makes 450 whp at 17 psi then whats wrong with the gti?

wtf.......I cant imagine thats stock turbo.....


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

here's the part that makes it hard for me to take you guys seriously. I'm sure that you both realize 15 PSI on one turbo is not the same as 15 PSI on another turbo...
Seriously... I mean you knew that, right?


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

You're not answering the question though... Maybe you should attempt, rather than trying to call us out as idiots. 
I did say there are variables, of course there are. Turbo size is a variable, the turbine is a variable, there are countless variables. 
You have to admit, 50 horsepower from 12 psi on an engine that normally makes 150 bhp just doesn't add up. Before I had the S trim on my old car, I had a smaller A trim making _7 lbs _and the car went from 308 rwhp to 372 rwhp (a gain of 64 at the wheels) with a _supercharger_ which obviously is not as efficient as a turbo, and at the time was a tiny centrifugal blower, which you can't even buy anymore. The S trim made 12-13 psi or so and the car put down 443, a gain of around 44%, out of a blower. 
Once again, I'm not putting down the 2.0 TFSI. As I've heard from the GTI guys over and over it's a world class engine which was won awards all around the globe. I wouldn't know, I've never driven one. 




_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 10:03 PM 7-17-2007_


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## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sl33pyb* »_
so true... mathematically 14.7 is 100% increase. when i found out gtis made 200 hp and not 260 which makes sense with how good most gti drives make them "seem" i almost died with laughter. as you stated before, if they are really putting out 16 psi due to a chip and arent putting 300+ to the wheels.... wow. if a TC can make 250 whp at 8psi and a mazda3 makes 450 whp at 17 psi then whats wrong with the gti?

Different size turbos genius. Don't make stupid statements please. I'm all for defending the 2.5, but don't bash the 2.0t with statements you know nothing about. My 1.8 GTI made 220whp on the k03s @ 18psi, and it made 300whp @ 15psi with a t3 super 60 on it? whats your point here...the 2.0t is a great motor. No lag, good power, good tuning ability.


----------



## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (that1guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *that1guy* »_
Different size turbos genius. Don't make stupid statements please. I'm all for defending the 2.5, but don't bash the 2.0t with statements you know nothing about. My 1.8 GTI made 220whp on the k03s @ 18psi, and it made 300whp @ 15psi with a t3 super 60 on it? whats your point here...the 2.0t is a great motor. No lag, good power, good tuning ability. 


What were the intake charge temps? Probably 50% less with the bigger turbo, which clearly has a lot to do with it.


----------



## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_You're not answering the question though... Maybe you should attempt, rather than trying to call us out as idiots. 
I did say there are variables, of course there are. Turbo size is a variable, the turbine is a variable, there are countless variables. 
You have to admit, 50 horsepower from 12 psi on an engine that normally makes 150 bhp just doesn't add up. Before I had the S trim on my old car, I had a smaller A trim making _7 lbs _and the car went from 308 rwhp to 372 rwhp (a gain of 64 at the wheels) with a _supercharger_ which obviously is not as efficient as a turbo, and at the time was a tiny centrifugal blower, which you can't even buy anymore. 
Once again, I'm not putting down the 2.0 TFSI. As I've heard from the GTI guys over and over it's a world class engine which was won awards all around the globe. 

and what size engine was this on? On my 99 SS camaro, I made 440whp @ 7 psi with an ATI pro-charger, and broke 520 @10. Your guy's arguments make no sense. Different compression, turbos, fuel systems, and many other variables on all the cars you listed.Increase in PSI does not equate to an exponential increase in horsepower.


----------



## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (that1guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *that1guy* »_
and what size engine was this on? On my 99 SS camaro, I made 440whp @ 7 psi with an ATI pro-charger, and broke 520 @10. Your guy's arguments make no sense. Different compression, turbos, fuel systems, and many other variables on all the cars you listed.Increase in PSI does not equate to an exponential increase in horsepower. 

302 in a 5 Liter, stock bottom end. 
It's a mathematical equation. Double atmospheric pressure, double your airflow, and you should double your power. Of course there are variables which I have stated 30 times. If the motor/exhaust/fuel system whatever just flat out can't flow double the air or can't handle the load for whatever reason, obviously it's not going to make the power. 
I'm simply asking a question which nobody seems to want to answer, which I suppose is because nobody knows, which is fine. You guys just defend and defend and defend and I'm just trying to get some kind of explanation as to why things are this way. Did the 1.8T's have the same kind of thing? 
I'm used to what you seem to be familiar with, a lot more cubes where boost can create some serious power. It's just odd to me that 12 psi = 200 hp, but who knows I suppose that is the way things work with the small motors/turbos. I also realize a lot of the time you'll give up power n/a to make more with boost or nitrous. We used to give up about 200 horse n/a with the race car because of the cam we used, but gained over 600 rwhp with a 350 shot, for about 1300 total. 




_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 10:18 PM 7-17-2007_


----------



## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*

^^^ like I said, its not an exponential equation. Its a small turbo, small motor, fast spool, no lag, good power. Its making close to 200whp, which is pretty good. If you have even seen the physical size of a k03s, you would laugh your ass off. the inlet is about the size of a silver dollar. I **** myself when we took it off the 1.8t


----------



## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (that1guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *that1guy* »_^^^ like I said, its not an exponential equation. Its a small turbo, small motor, fast spool, no lag, good power. Its making close to 200whp, which is pretty good. If you have even seen the physical size of a k03s, you would laugh your ass off. the inlet is about the size of a silver dollar. I **** myself when we took it off the 1.8t

Good to know but you are right, I haven't seen one. My buddies F3R is about the size of a dinner plate







I fully admit to being ignorant on the subject of the smaller stuff, I just figured it would be the same thing but obviously on a smaller scale. 
Now I know












_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 10:39 PM 7-17-2007_


----------



## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

The k03 could make that power on a 1.8 _because_ it was a 1.8. The k03 is tiny. Look up it's compressor map.
Turbo size plays a huge part. You guys keep comparing apples to oranges and I just don't understand why you aren't seeing that...


----------



## rideorsmurf (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

Ummmm, me like Turbo!!!
Vroom, Vroooooooom


----------



## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

i like boobs


----------



## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_i like boobs

I think that is something we all agree on


----------



## MrMister (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (digitaltim)*

The fact that GTI owners are haters doesn't affect me very much. I spent 15k on the rabbit instead of 26k on the GTI because I wanted money left over to buy parts for my car, and to be able to afford a bad ass road trip when I get back home from Iraq. I could understand if a rabbit owner was trying to push the idea that their rabbit is faster and more agile than a gti, but i've heard rumors of stock rabbit beating out a stock gti on a road course. Here say is here say though.... it's whatever to me. I'm happy with my hare.


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## dead0narrivel (Aug 7, 2005)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (MrMister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MrMister* »_The fact that GTI owners are haters doesn't affect me very much. I spent 15k on the rabbit instead of 26k on the GTI because I wanted money left over to buy parts for my car, and to be able to afford a bad ass road trip when I get back home from Iraq. I could understand if a rabbit owner was trying to push the idea that their rabbit is faster and more agile than a gti, but i've heard rumors of stock rabbit beating out a stock gti on a road course. Here say is here say though.... *it's whatever to me. I'm happy with my hare*.

thats really the most important part of everything...
the sad part is how many people forget that


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## Blacksheepsquad (Mar 25, 2007)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (dead0narrivel)*

Wow up to 4 pages of crying now...
Break out the hip waders, ya'll are going to flood the place.


----------



## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

can't we all just get along.....


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## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: (that1guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *that1guy* »_can't we all just get along.....

nope. pretty sad huh?
I was over on 1addicts.com the other day. What a refreshing change to some maturity.


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## karmatoburn (Aug 1, 2007)

i've been dubbin' for years. my list of cars include mk2 gti, audi 90 quattro, mkiii jetta, mkiv r32, and currently a mkv rabbit (i had 2 kids almost a year apart, if you've ever been in an .:r you'll understand the switch). i keep getting them, not only because they were great cars, but because of the commeraderie in the dub scene. that will never change...that is part of what owning a vw is. we all know there are e-tards in every crowd, but oh well. i love my car, otherwise i wouldn't have bought any one of them. i could be an ****** to the gti'ers and say 'my r32 is better than your gti' but who really cares? when i walk away from this computer, i'm gonna get in my 2.5, and have a blast driving it


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## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*rabbit??? WTF????*

i hate to rain on you'ns parades, but you do not drive rabbits.... the ONLY rabbits were MK1. 
i'll be leaving you to your whining now....


----------



## thedriver (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: rabbit??? WTF???? (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_i hate to rain on you'ns parades, but you do not drive rabbits.... the ONLY rabbits were MK1. 
i'll be leaving you to your whining now....


















than why is their a rabbit on my trunk from the factory?


----------



## Mike Gordon (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: rabbit??? WTF???? (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_i hate to rain on you'ns parades, but you do not drive rabbits.... the ONLY rabbits were MK1. 
i'll be leaving you to your whining now....









Tee Hee......What a card. Ya know actually they(all generations) are all GOLF's if ya really want to get into it. You http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by Mike Gordon at 4:17 PM 8-8-2007_


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: rabbit??? WTF???? (speeding-g60)*

you = troll
http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp


----------



## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: rabbit??? WTF???? (digitaltim)*

lol


----------



## karmatoburn (Aug 1, 2007)

i guess it could also be said that all a gti is, is a rabbit that needs a turbo to keep up...
...and i thought the lupo was the vw econo car


_Modified by karmatoburn at 8:34 AM 8-9-2007_


----------



## GtiGirl (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: (Blacksheepsquad)*

to org. poster, Is this your first VW?


----------



## we are138 (Aug 11, 2007)

who cares!!!! i like my car and i really dont care if you think its a "real rabbit" or not. or if its not as fast as a gti. i thought the fun of tuning a car was TUNING THE CAR, and driving it. here is a idea... if you dont like the mkv rabbit... dont buy one


----------



## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (we are138)*

Remember how the 1.8t never looses? Well the fsi never looses and is the greatest car ever built and everything else sucks in comparison, even the rabbit. If you can get over that hurdle you're fine.
With that said, if you buy the rabbit for performance, you're retarded. It is slower than the gti, and without $$$$ into a turbo setup it will remain slower than a gti. The gti interior has nicer materials, it has more options, better transmissions, it's a better car. If you want to go fast, don't get a vw, if you want to go fast in a vw, get an .:R, if you want to go fast without breaking the bank, get a mk3 vr







, if you want to go quick in a new dub without breaking the bank, get a new gti, if you want to not break the bank, have a fun new vw with decent power, the rabbit is a great option.
So if a gti owner tells you their car is better, they're right. If you care, your stupid. The rabbit is a great value, mine is due at the dealership in 3 weeks,maybe a bit sooner if I'm lucky







I bought it cause sage green is the hotness, they come with a ton of standard features like cruise control







and the price is great. I think the rabbits look great, already got plans for mine, as lots of the online retailers already know, and I'll make it my own. It won't look like a gti, it won't perform like a gti, but it'll look damn good and be fun to drive. Best part is, I could care less what the gti owners say. 
And a final note, I've been and still am on the other side of the story with the mk3's. I own a vr6 and yes its fast and its a lot of fun. Its leather fully loaded, its better than the mk3's with a 2.0. I know that and that's why I got it, because I wanted the fast optioned out mk3. What fuels the arguments on the mk3 board is when people think their 2.0 is fast. It isn't. Yes you can make it faster but you can do the same with the vr. There are alot of awesome mk3 2.0s out there and whats great about most of them is that they don't try to be better than the vr. They do tasteful body styling, interior accents, wheels, etc and make it a good looking fun car. Granted they won't be as fast on the track or the strip but thats not what the car was made for. Unless all you care about is racing the person next to you it doesn't really mater. I use tp race older Porsche's a few years back before I went broke in college and had a blast. They weren't nearly as fast as a new gti. You don't need speed to have fun. Granted its nice, but if you bought the rabbit and want to make it fast, go trade it in. If you want to have fun, grab your rabbit keys and go for a drive.


----------



## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

No Car is better than my bunny, HA. ::Trying to find some logic for this outburst:::....


----------



## karmatoburn (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: (a3vr)*

nicely said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## we are138 (Aug 11, 2007)

*Re: (a3vr)*

i dont agree that everything else sucks... other than that well said!


----------



## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

NA > TURBO!!!!!

jk, nicely put, brotha. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (karmatoburn)*

All I have to say is.....
A/C compressor failures seem to be limited to 2.0T
Diverter Valve failures
Fuel Pump failures
No/Hard start conditions
Frequent CEL's 
Just a bit of ammo to use....yeah our cars may be noisy on start and slower than a 2.0T but we seem to be chugging along QUITE a bit more reliably.


----------



## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (pezzy84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pezzy84* »_All I have to say is.....
A/C compressor failures seem to be limited to 2.0T
Diverter Valve failures
Fuel Pump failures
No/Hard start conditions
Frequent CEL's 
Just a bit of ammo to use....yeah our cars may be noisy on start and slower than a 2.0T but we seem to be chugging along QUITE a bit more reliably. 

yeah, but that wouldn't stop me from getting a gti.
edit; gonna add a little more
So because of a few small issues with the gti you decided to give up the 200hp, the 6sp, sunroof, leather, dsg, climatronic, and nav options, fog lights, hid's, premium audio, bolstered seats, sport suspension, bigger brakes, sport steering wheel with radio controls, mfa, and I'm sure a few other options. That is ridiculous that one would not get a gti because of a few small issues that if they did arise would be covered under warranty. Putting down the gti is EXACTLY what causes the hate towards the rabbit.


_Modified by a3vr at 11:36 PM 8-11-2007_


----------



## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (pezzy84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pezzy84* »_All I have to say is.....
A/C compressor failures seem to be limited to 2.0T
Diverter Valve failures
Fuel Pump failures
No/Hard start conditions
Frequent CEL's 
Just a bit of ammo to use....yeah our cars may be noisy on start and slower than a 2.0T but we seem to be chugging along QUITE a bit more reliably. 

The first and as of yet the only recall is being issued for the 2.5.


----------



## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (a3vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a3vr* »_
Putting down the gti is EXACTLY what causes the hate towards the rabbit.

_Modified by a3vr at 11:36 PM 8-11-2007_

No......I never put down the GTI/GLI/Jetta 2.0T until they came around and started $hitting on 2.5 owners for *NO REASON*. Even then it took a good few months of reading the '2.5 sucks' threads to get me going. 
I have about had it with the *immature* 2.0T owners saying '2.5 sucks' when they have never driven one. Not saying all of them do this but I have about had it with the ones on the tex who do......so I will go ahead and $hit right back in their mouth.


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

so whats the recall?


----------



## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
The first and as of yet the only recall is being issued for the 2.5.









2 years/26,000 miles on the clock and ZERO engine/transmission problems to date. 
I will take a picture tomorrow of the "problem" that is requiring a recall. In my particular car this tab sits at least 3" away from the fuel lines. 
Just a tad better than a new car having a hard time starting, or a/c failing, fuel pump failing, etc.


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## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: (a3vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a3vr* »_
yeah, but that wouldn't stop me from getting a gti.
edit; gonna add a little more
So because of a few small issues with the gti you decided to give up the 200hp, the 6sp, sunroof, leather, dsg, climatronic, and nav options, fog lights, hid's, premium audio, bolstered seats, sport suspension, bigger brakes, sport steering wheel with radio controls, mfa, and I'm sure a few other options. That is ridiculous that one would not get a gti because of a few small issues that if they did arise would be covered under warranty. Putting down the gti is EXACTLY what causes the hate towards the rabbit.

_Modified by a3vr at 11:36 PM 8-11-2007_

Well, not to brag, but in my 2005.5, I have leatherette seats (not as good, but better to take care of), a 6sp tiptronic which is useful, climatronic, a sunroof, premium audio, the mfd, added my own fog lights. and most of that other stuff excluding DSG, I can add


----------



## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

OH AND I LUCKED OUT ON THAT RECALL.
that is, if it's the fuel line thing that has to do with 2006-year models


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (kaner05jetta)*

its just jettas too
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...2/1396]http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb.../1396



_Modified by digitaltim at 10:17 PM 8-11-2007_


----------



## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (pezzy84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pezzy84* »_
No......I never put down the GTI/GLI/Jetta 2.0T until they came around and started $hitting on 2.5 owners for *NO REASON*. Even then it took a good few months of reading the '2.5 sucks' threads to get me going. 
I have about had it with the *immature* 2.0T owners saying '2.5 sucks' when they have never driven one. Not saying all of them do this but I have about had it with the ones on the tex who do......so I will go ahead and $hit right back in their mouth. 

aight, but I'm just saying coming from the mk3 forum, nothing pisses me off more than 2.0 owners telling you that they have a faster and better car than the vr6's. The more you fight back the more they will, and in the end the gti does have the upper hand in this battle.


----------



## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (kaner05jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kaner05jetta* »_
Well, not to brag, but in my 2005.5, I have leatherette seats (not as good, but better to take care of), a 6sp tiptronic which is useful, climatronic, a sunroof, premium audio, the mfd, added my own fog lights. and most of that other stuff excluding DSG, I can add
















tiptronic is not even close to dsg








but you add all of that and why not get the gti or gli in your case? I'm not trying to put anyone down here but just make sure everyone realizes you get what you pay for and the gti/gli are better than the base models.


----------



## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (a3vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a3vr* »_
Putting down the gti is EXACTLY what causes the hate towards the rabbit.
_Modified by a3vr at 11:36 PM 8-11-2007_

All I can say to that statement is, "







." 
No one has "put down" the GTI, but he did list some of the common problems. Some of them are probably due to mods anyways....well, I hope that's the case. 

They're both awesome cars..... 
I wish this thread would die. there really isn't anything to argue about anymore....Its all been said.


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## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

we need to let this thread die. The 2.0t is a great motor, and so is the 2.5. They are the exact same car, with different options. Who cares. Both are great, and neither are cheap ass chevy aveos. You all drive nice cars, and you are very well off compared to some people (try doing my job for a day and you will understand how luck you are to be arguing over an 18k car compared to a 21k car). This is retarded.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (pezzy84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pezzy84* »_Just a tad better than a new car having a hard time starting, or a/c failing, fuel pump failing, etc. 

Really? I've never had any of those issues.


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## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: (a3vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a3vr* »_
tiptronic is not even close to dsg








but you add all of that and why not get the gti or gli in your case? I'm not trying to put anyone down here but just make sure everyone realizes you get what you pay for and the gti/gli are better than the base models.

Because 2005.5 models come loaded, and mine was a steal


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*

I bought my rabbit....because I wanted a rabbit...I could have bought a GTI....hell I could have bought an STI or EVO...but I didn't, I bought a rabbit because I wanted it.....my rabbit does everything I need it to do...I compete in local AutoX races and have found out the Rabbit is a very competitive car...I do not wish I bought a GTI...
"if you cant drive fast with 80hp....800hp isnt going to help"


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_I bought my rabbit....because I wanted a rabbit...I could have bought a GTI....hell I could have bought an STI or EVO...but I didn't, I bought a rabbit because I wanted it.....my rabbit does everything I need it to do...I compete in local AutoX races and have found out the Rabbit is a very competitive car...I do not wish I bought a GTI...
"if you cant drive fast with 80hp....800hp isnt going to help"

Bingo. So why are the rest of you so uptight?


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## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Bingo. So why are the rest of you so uptight?

because people try to justify the rabbit over the gti (or jetta over the gli) when they really wanted the gti/gli.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (a3vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a3vr* »_
because people try to justify the rabbit over the gti (or jetta over the gli) when they really wanted the gti/gli.

The Marketing department that VW has employed to take car of advertising the MKV chassis as a whole did a really good job....they have brought in a lot of new to the brand (VW) buyers..... Im sure that is the problem...they saw the new GTI commercials...but either them or their parents could only afford the "3 VWs for under $17,000".....
As a long time "Dubber" I see benefits of both...each has its own purpose..


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## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_
The Marketing department that VW has employed to take car of advertising the MKV chassis as a whole did a really good job....they have brought in a lot of new to the brand (VW) buyers..... Im sure that is the problem...they saw the new GTI commercials...but either them or their parents could only afford the "3 VWs for under $17,000".....
As a long time "Dubber" I see benefits of both...each has its own purpose..









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (a3vr)*

Why can't the DSG be adapted to fit the 2.5? I know it obviously fits the 2.0T but it also fits the new upcoming 2008 TDi engine. How come we got screwed with a Tiptronic or a 5spdm that has reports of failure?


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_Why can't the DSG be adapted to fit the 2.5? I know it obviously fits the 2.0T but it also fits the new upcoming 2008 TDi engine. How come we got screwed with a Tiptronic or a 5spdm that has reports of failure?

The DSG has reports of failure so that point is irrelevant. In any case your dealing with an American motor. The 2.5 is not in wide production for any other market at this point. The DSG Transmission is. Aside from that the Rabbit is priced and marketed as an economically low impact car. The DSG is a pricey option. Those are reasons I might guess as to why you don't see a DSG option.


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## batmang (Jun 6, 2005)

every vw person ive seen around tucson is very mature. i miss my mkiv 1.8t. i have a modded scion xb (needed something for my dog, lol) and people give me **** for no reason at all. i miss having a vw.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

In defense to my rabbit, I just replaced a mechatroniks unit in a DSG GTI today







Then again I also recently replaced a rabbit 5 spd trans for blowing a hole in the case







. DSG's need frequent fluid and filter changes which are costly to say the least. The 2.0T's DEF have more problems, and in hte case of the passat 2.0's they have up to 4 recalls and a billion tsb's....the 2.5 jetta doesnt have any official recalls yet. Official meaning VW has not posted them yet for us to check out. 
What happens at 5 years 1 day and 60,001 miles when the turbo blows out, sends metal into the intake, and fries the engine? LOL....


----------



## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (rustlerdude)*

You're talking about the CarPC screen in the GTI's uber interior right? I had to Google that one. oo and FYI our 6speed Tiptronic for the 2.5 is made by Aisin Werner, right? The same people who make the 6speed automatic for the new BMW Mini Cooper S with the turbocharged BMW engine, not the old supercharged, um, er, Daimler Chrysler mill.


----------



## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Correct...same goes with the jetta 6 speeds. AW made the AW4 for the jeep cherokee and that is a bulletproof transmission. Too bad the electronics are made my Germans







lol


----------



## that1guy (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (rustlerdude)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rustlerdude* »_In defense to my rabbit, I just replaced a mechatroniks unit in a DSG GTI today







Then again I also recently replaced a rabbit 5 spd trans for blowing a hole in the case







. DSG's need frequent fluid and filter changes which are costly to say the least. The 2.0T's DEF have more problems, and in hte case of the passat 2.0's they have up to 4 recalls and a billion tsb's....the 2.5 jetta doesnt have any official recalls yet. Official meaning VW has not posted them yet for us to check out. 
What happens at 5 years 1 day and 60,001 miles when the turbo blows out, sends metal into the intake, and fries the engine? LOL....

fluid change at 40k is frequent?


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

The audi dsg specs for 35k replacement. Yes that is frequent when compared to all the other auto transmissions that do not even have a replacement interval and say the fluid is lifetime fill. 
I used to change the trans oil on the jeep every 12k miles. Fluid is a buck and change also which is dirt compared to the fluids vw/audi uses. 
It just stinks that you need to bring it to the dealer for you to do a dsg fluid change, fluid temps must be 35-45C and the only way to fill it is through the drain plug.


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## lancGTI (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: (rustlerdude)*

I drive a GTI, but I won't pull the fanboy flag. I like the Rabbit, and the 2.5L makes an oh-so-awesome sound [IMO, kinda like a VR6 howl







] but clearly 'some GTI fanboi' should look over the entire model range before calling the Rabbit the economy car.
I'd call the Jetta TDI the economy version before I'd place that label on a Rabbit. The Rabbit gets, what... 22 city & 30 highway MPG? The TDI far surpasses that [for obvious reasons]. Actually, the almighty GTI [







] even has a higher EPA fuel economy rating than the 2.5L Rabbit. The main thing that separates these models [beside power output and overall performance] is price.
Sounds more like this guy's confusing price with economy.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (lancGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lancGTI* »_Sounds more like this guy's confusing price with economy.

"An economy car is an automobile that is designed for low cost operation. They are designed for drivers who use their car primarily for personal transportation. Typical economy cars are small, light weight, and inexpensive to buy."
Let's take a look. Let's say the same owner of either a GTI or a Rabbit drives 15k a year. the EPA rating on the GTI is 23 City, 32 Highway. Say the average price of 87 Octane gasoline for that 15k mile year was $2.75 and $2.85 for premium. (Just a guess)
So in that year the GTI driver would pay (with a 50/50 mix of highway and city driving) about $1600 in gasoline. The Rabbit Driver who gets 22 City and 30 Highway will have paid about $1630.
Now lets say the driver is the frugal type. Not really interested in options, the driver opted for the least number of options for both cars. The Rabbit would have cost (as estimated by VW's site) $14,990. The GTI would come in at $22,220. That's a $7,230 difference.
That would mean that it would take 241 years for the additional cost of gasoline to make the Rabbit a less economical choice than the GTI.
Interesting that you missed that.


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## a3vr (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
"An economy car is an automobile that is designed for low cost operation. They are designed for drivers who use their car primarily for personal transportation. Typical economy cars are small, light weight, and inexpensive to buy."
Let's take a look. Let's say the same owner of either a GTI or a Rabbit drives 15k a year. the EPA rating on the GTI is 23 City, 32 Highway. Say the average price of 87 Octane gasoline for that 15k mile year was $2.75 and $2.85 for premium. (Just a guess)
So in that year the GTI driver would pay (with a 50/50 mix of highway and city driving) about $1600 in gasoline. The Rabbit Driver who gets 22 City and 30 Highway will have paid about $1630.
Now lets say the driver is the frugal type. Not really interested in options, the driver opted for the least number of options for both cars. The Rabbit would have cost (as estimated by VW's site) $14,990. The GTI would come in at $22,220. That's a $7,230 difference.
That would mean that it would take 241 years for the additional cost of gasoline to make the Rabbit a less economical choice than the GTI.
Interesting that you missed that.

great point, except the difference between premium and regular gas is typically 20 cents not 10. Last year in Kansas City they even bumped it up to 30 cents. So based on a 20 cents difference, the gti would cost $28 _more_ per year in gas, and let's not forget insurance costs


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (a3vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a3vr* »_
great point, except the difference between premium and regular gas is typically 20 cents not 10. Last year in Kansas City they even bumped it up to 30 cents. So based on a 20 cents difference, the gti would cost $28 _more_ per year in gas, and let's not forget insurance costs









It really depends on the area. Any way you slice it, the Rabbit's price difference from the GTI makes up for the gas mileage difference. It IS a more economical car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## miamidubthing (Aug 20, 2007)

*Re: (Apoc112)*

MKIIIs got a lot of crap in general for the 2.SLOW. and the VR6 was just so much better of an engine at the time. Times have changed though, yah they get the 2.0T for GTI and the rabbit gets the 2.5...well they should be threated..because anyone who is doing auto tuning a 2.5 possibly has a chance to yield better results due to the larger displacement...I mean it is 25% more engine to start out with. In the future some will even begin to fear the 2.5 because it might be a 2.5T or a 2.5 supercharged.
There was a statement about for if you are tuning get the GTI..in many cases, yes you are correct, but anyone doing full mods...not sure sure..yah GTI has a better suspention/wheels/tires. What about when you change it to aftermarket? What if you install a bigger turbo, Cold-Air Induction, exhaust? All these things add up in price and costs you regardless of if its GTI or Rabbit. Personally I believe the 2.5 is a better starting engine(25% more displacement) for mods simple because of the larger displacement. Strictly the only real advantage is the Transmission that will remain better throughout the mod process for the GTI. So if you buy a MKV with intent on doing Coil over conversions, aftermarket wheels/tires, intake, cold-air, and even a turbo/supercharger (yes I know..start adding cams, fuel remap etc) Your Rabbit will essentially be on par with any GTI..at a 5-10k less price tag. Just so happens all those mods can be done in that price difference aswell.


_Modified by miamidubthing at 12:38 PM 8-20-2007_


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## BIVO (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (digitaltim)*

did u just say lightning fast throttle response??? have u ever even driven a gti...it take 5 min. for the turbo tp spool. and the throttle response is worse on a gti...the cars is just faster than a rabbit.


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## studio19sound (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: (miamidubthing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *miamidubthing* »_..at a 5-10k less price tag. Just so happens all those mods can be done in that price difference aswell.
_Modified by miamidubthing at 12:38 PM 8-20-2007_

I'm glad you brought this point up, as this is my way of thinking. My rabbit's price tag was approx. $8000 under a gti. now, if I were to invest another $8000 into the rabbit, i will tell you without a shadow of a doubt that it would out perform a gti....dollar for dollar.
stock for stock, of course the gti is going to be a 'better' car...but once again....theres lots of $1 bills that seperate our cars.
the only thing the gti has at that point is that it's turbo/engine parts are under warrantee...add $8000 of parts on a rabbit and say buh bye to the warrantee. but lets be real with ourselves now...if you are modding a car to that point, you have accept that fact already


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: The rabbit hate is deep in the MKV forum (BIVO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BIVO* »_did u just say lightning fast throttle response??? have u ever even driven a gti...it take 5 min. for the turbo tp spool. and the throttle response is worse on a gti...the cars is just faster than a rabbit.

The trurbo spools by 2800 RPM and with stock software it's a seamless movement from essentiall N/A power to Boost. If it took a long time to build boost, your were driving it wrong. I'm sure that's the case. If you are arguing that you feel more power sooner on a Rabbit, no doubt, your car is Naturally Aspirated. It has never-ending lag.








I'm not sure how the throttle response could be worse on the GTI, but I'm interested to hear how you determined that.


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## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

I got chipped and now my throttle response is a bit better


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## RATFINK (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: (studio19sound)*


_Quote, originally posted by *studio19sound* »_
I'm glad you brought this point up, as this is my way of thinking. My rabbit's price tag was approx. $8000 under a gti. now, if I were to invest another $8000 into the rabbit, i will tell you without a shadow of a doubt that it would out perform a gti....dollar for dollar.
stock for stock, of course the gti is going to be a 'better' car...but once again....theres lots of $1 bills that seperate our cars.
the only thing the gti has at that point is that it's turbo/engine parts are under warrantee...add $8000 of parts on a rabbit and say buh bye to the warrantee. but lets be real with ourselves now...if you are modding a car to that point, you have accept that fact already









Excellent point. 
It cracks me up to see VW guys arguing like this. This rivalry is like An Audi owner Vs VW owners. 
It a shame when one man thinks he is better than another because he has a more expensive or better performing car. 
A lot of VW newbie’s don't realize that 95% of all VDubs are capable of being modified. (except the VW Fox) and the package one price tag is still more than the Rabbits. You’ll pay less on insurance and your monthly car payment. 
It's a perfect car for some one who really doesn’t care about speed but just wants a sporty hatch. I see my fellow 2.5L owners asking for some help on these forums and a lonely internet thug chimes in to belittle the innocent. Humble your self man it's just a VW. I bet if the same circumstances where face to face the out come would be a lot different. 
we are all part of the same compose heap. Let others enjoy what they have. And work hard for what they want. If a 2.5 owner what to spend 10K on his motor “so freakin what”. Let them stop taking it so personal, and excuse us from your mindless banality and so called performance knowledge. 



_Modified by RATFINK at 10:57 AM 8-28-2007_


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