# Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top



## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

Now that we've thoroughly determined the Volvo C70 is comprehensively inferior to the Eos and no longer worth discussing, Lets talk about the only other retractable hardtop worth considering while things are slow. 
Just in case anybody is wondering. The retractible hardtop is sourced from a German company named Edscha. See 5th Paragraph.
http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...17268 





































_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 3:32 PM 1-20-2007_


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Well yeah, we all want one, but I doubt if it bases anything below $54900. I am sure they will show photos of it in dark colors to disguise all the break lines in the car including the 3 piece top--they should have used Volkswagens CSC design for the top.


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## dqcvdtpda (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Poor Brenda. She should try to be a little more adamant about it.


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## chewym (Jun 21, 2006)

It will cost a lot of money, or it will have absolutely nothing as standard equipment and still cost more than the Eos. The 328 should split the 2.0T and the 3.2 in performance, the 335i is more powerful of course.


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## ChicagoVW (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: (chewym)*

I like my cars to be a bit more curvy


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## ehdg eos (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: (ChicagoVW)*

That is one ugly attena and why would you place coming out just past the drivers door? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Plus who the heck is Brenda anyway if she doesn't work or BMW how is she able to copy right that?


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## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (ehdg eos)*

I'm hoping the antenna comment was tongue in cheek








Nice car, but I've seen pics with the top down and the windows up, and something just doesn't look right.
Would I have one...Yes. One of my old favorite cars was a 3 series.
Will it cost too much...you betcha


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

Price is the killer for me. Rear seat definetly looks more substantial than Ours. Otherwise, Show me the $$$ baby !


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## EosEnthusiastNB (Aug 9, 2006)

BMW can't use the CSC roof, at least not yet. VW holds the rights to use it from Webasto for a set time. I believe it may be 5 years, but not totally sure on the time.


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: (ehdg eos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ehdg eos* »_That is one ugly attena and why would you place coming out just past the drivers door? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Plus who the heck is Brenda anyway if she doesn't work for BMW how is she able to copy right that?









I'm sure that antenna is serving some other purpose (it looks like its for some telemetry) 
And Brenda can copyright the photos she took, lest someone decides to print these shots of the 3 series convertible without her getting paid.
I'm sure the the BMW 3 series convertible will be a phenomenal car, we'd have to see how much passenger space they manage inside, and how much space they've managed in the trunk top stored.
But don't kid yourself, the current E46 ragtop 325 starts @ $39,600, the new one I'm pretty sure will top that price. Its still a better deal over the old one because you are going to get the 328s engine, and a hard top. I'd still take the Eos 3.2 over it.


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm not impressed. I'm sure it'll be great to drive, but the looks just don't work for me.


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## Jpics (Apr 26, 2006)

*Re: (EosEnthusiastNB)*

NO SUNROOF!!


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## GLIGuy18 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (Jpics)*

Not to go OT but what is up with this guys hand? lol


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## someguy123 (Sep 30, 2005)

Will there even be any trunk space leftover with the hardtop down?
That's such a small trunk lid.


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## ehdg eos (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: (someguy123)*

I do like the look of the duel exhaust though. Wishing the EOS's was that way instead of 2 together.


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## CharmCity (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Something about it, at least in those pics, looks kind of sloppy. I'm not sure what, but I think I prefer the EOS.


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## ATC98092 (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (CharmCity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CharmCity* »_Something about it, at least in those pics, looks kind of sloppy. I'm not sure what, but I think I prefer the EOS.

Something about the camera angle is my guess. I remember some EOS pictures that were not very flattering either. I'll wait to see the real thing. The first German car maker that brings a small car (A4, C-Class, 3 Series or Jetta) that has a diesel engine, Bluetooth and a quality sound system to the US will be my next purchase. I want a nice, luxury car but I don't want a E-Class!. It's too big!!!


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (ATC98092)*

From the Car Lounge...more pics..


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## muggo11 (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Well, the EOS still wins in my book. . . I have yet to see any one of these cars (and I just went to the new Volvo dealership down the road to check out the convertible) that has the wind guard system. . . I am still loving having the top down and never worrying about my hair. It's the best.


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## RoadsterGrrl (Sep 21, 2006)

Price is a factor for me, and I'm sure this beemer will cost almost twice as much (as the Eos) after all the goodies are added.


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## VW PAUL (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

EOS http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cpchillin (Nov 12, 2004)

I'm getting on this bus a little late but I'm pretty sure that's a 335i vert in those pics! If so then it will be a 300hp turbo. I'd expect to see the base price in the $45K range. But it could base at more since the 335i bases at $40K and the 330Ci is $44K. I love my E46 M3! I'd love to get an E92 M3 but I'm scared since the 335i that I'd want is over $50K! 
I really wish the EOS came in a 3.6 and AWD!!


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## amerikanzero (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

From a look standpoint the BMW all the way, there's no doubt. Everyone has their own preference but I personally like a little more aggressive and well proportioned look. The EOS looks good too, and I can appreciate the bubbly cutesy cartoonish look of it, but certain angles make the car look really weird. With that said, expect the BMW to be atleast 50k. Which gives the EOS the upperhand in that sense...although a comparably equipped 3.2 EOS will be around 45k at which point VW will be hard pressed to convince people to get a VW instead of a BMW. I personally would dish out the extra money and make the next step up to the BMW. Judging by BMW's general track record with the 3 series, the car is probably going to be amazing.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (amerikanzero)*

Cost not being a factor... BMW FTW.


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

Cost not being a factor, there are other cars to be had also...


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (ialonso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ialonso* »_Cost not being a factor, there are other cars to be had also...









Actually name all of the hard top convertibles offered today... yes you can do it on one hand and maybe use a finger or two on the other.
In this comparison my motto is RWD owns FWD any day of the week... oh and twice on Sunday.
So if you are shopping the two cars above and are comfortable with their pricing then I prefer the BMW. Was that better put?


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: (XM_Rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XM_Rocks* »_








Actually name all of the hard top convertibles offered today... yes you can do it on one hand and maybe use a finger or two on the other.
In this comparison my motto is RWD owns FWD any day of the week... oh and twice on Sunday.
So if you are shopping the two cars above and are comfortable with their pricing then I prefer the BMW. Was that better put?















 
My guess is that he isn't limiting his choices to hardtop convertibles, or 4 seaters for that matter...(you said cost no option) in which case options like the Corvette, Boxster/S, M6, F430, Gallardo, Carrera GT etc come in...
Would you still pick the 3 series?


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## Instynct (Sep 7, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

I like the BMWs overall outside look, its much more elegant than existing hard tops 4 seaters.
As for the interior, the dash board console pictured is butt ugly.
The roof mechanism actually looks more complicated than that of the EOS. Notice all of the extra little arms to get the 3rd fold. The trunk is also small to start with so I'm assuming there is not any space left after dropping the roof.
Overall I think the BMW is a nice car and will do well. However this is likely to attract the "status symbol" crowd. The EOS is an equivalent car save for the BMW badge and a steal by comparison seeing the BMW is unlikely to have a price below 45k.








After 2 months I'm so pleased with my EOS I do not have any regrets. I feel like I am in a "luxury car." The 3 series is a great car, but I wont be gazing at any with jealousy.


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (Instynct)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Instynct* »_I like the BMWs overall outside look, its much more elegant than existing hard tops 4 seaters.
As for the interior, the dash board console pictured is butt ugly.
The roof mechanism actually looks more complicated than that of the EOS. Notice all of the extra little arms to get the 3rd fold. The trunk is also small to start with so I'm assuming there is not any space left after dropping the roof.
Overall I think the BMW is a nice car and will do well. However this is likely to attract the "status symbol" crowd. The EOS is an equivalent car save for the BMW badge and a steal by comparison seeing the BMW is unlikely to have a price below 45k.








After 2 months I'm so pleased with my EOS I do not have any regrets. I feel like I am in a "luxury car." The 3 series is a great car, but I wont be gazing at any with jealousy. 

EXACTLY how I feel about my EOS. Well said! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (darien)*

Anyone else have the feeling that Car and Driver, Road and Track, MotorTrend etc are waiting for the BMW to show up to do their respective new convertible comparos?


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## northvw (Jul 14, 2006)

*The good, the bad, and the......*

Too bad BMW didn't at least include a panoramic roof even if no sunroof. Probably didn't want to add the extra hardware to incorporate a sunblocker panel - but Mercedes was able to do it for the SL. Then too, a panoramic roof could still show up as an option as it is on the SL. Although the photos don't show it, the BMW does have one neat unique feature. The backs of the backseat fold down to create a cargo compartment where the rear seats were. As far as RWD and FWD, unless BMW allows for all-wheel drive (as it does for the new coupe) then those of us who live in snow country would be better off with the FWD EOS if we plan to do any serious winter driving.


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## cpchillin (Nov 12, 2004)

The people that are buying the BMW more than likely wouldn't be driving it much in the winter anyway! They probably have another car, or two, for the winter. The sunroof is a great idea but we'll see how well it holds up. If it does well I'll bet that almost every hardtop will come with one in the coming years.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (cpchillin)*

I figured I'd do an update, since this was a pretty popular thread. The Canadian specs just hit for the 3 series retractible hardtop...ahead of the USA specs. Physical dimensions are here as well. I read somewhere that the 3 is currently the most rigid convertible in the BMW lineup, even more rigid than the 6 series convertible.
http://www.e90post.net/e93productbulletin.pdf
Price information is said to be 3 weeks away for USA market.




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:16 AM 12-12-2006_


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (gizmopop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gizmopop* »_From the Car Lounge...more pics..










Its a prettier car, in some ways more masuline car, than the Eos, but its almost twice as much as an Eos. I kinda prefer Eos' understated look. 
I will say that the tan on gold is gorgeous... good thing that is avaiable on the Eos, too!! ;D
The Bmer is a nice car. I;m glad it was out. Had I another 20 G to spend, i'd might consider it....


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## bougy (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (archiea)*

For my part, I don't like BMers that much because of the image (here a lot of leasing cars are 320d with "black plastic handles", I mean no options, and they are always in left lanes with passing lights on, thinking that because of the agressive face of the car, they have to drive the same way).
VW design is quite insipid for a while now (but MR Bangle at BM is insane : look the Z4 or 5 series ... bouaaaah) , and even the day I signed the EOS I was thinking that the EOS in insipid (specially the back).
BUT
I must admit that the EOS with a common design and well built with the best roof you can have (does all !!!! and is from Webasto !!!!!) is a sure value for the next 5 or 6 years, just what I was looking for.
SO
For the 3er design, I also think that something is not going fine in the back, the trunk looks too flat (the complete car looks flat when top down) but maybe the US market is loving that (50's big flat cars).
Have you see the available space between the vertical of the front seat to the top of the windscreen (on the upper pic) ? very very small ! That's because they put more roof in the back for rear passenger legs, with a CC you cannot have all. So you loose a bit of the cabrio and open air feeling (like with the french peugeot 307 CC and renault megane CC).
307 CC :
http://images.google.fr/imgres...a%3DN
Megane cc:
http://images.google.fr/imgres...a%3DN
So probably the SAAB 93 and Audi A4 soft tops are still the best looking and practical 4 seaters cabrio (but soft tops, ok I admit).
If the price is not an issue ? Aston Martin !!!!!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (bougy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bougy* »_...they are always in left lanes with passing lights on, thinking that because of the aggressive face of the car, they have to drive the same way...

No, you are mistaken, you have described the *Audi *drivers, not the BMW drivers...








Michael


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## bougy (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (PanEuropean)*

hi Michael, it's funny, you're the second person who said something like that about the Audi drivers in 2 weeks time in my "entourage".
Honnestly, for what I know they are more grandpa driving audi A3 than young "home alone" kid and exactly the reverse for the 3 series, no grandpa, plenty of "I am the master of the world, ... and 25 years old".
So that's why you have a phaeton instead of an A8 ... I know now


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## ehdg eos (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (bougy)*

Interesting and here by me I find the folks who drive the Audi's, A6's and A8's are typically older and more conservative types. They have money and dont' need to flaunt typically more understated types. Where as the BMW types are typically younger Newvoriche types that want to flaunt it in your face that they have cash!!


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## dbaps (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (ehdg eos)*

The BMW radio looks like crap. One more vote for the EOS


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## bougy (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (dbaps)*

Here we go for the M3 version !!!!
http://www.autodeclics.com/blog/blog.php?id=430


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (bougy)*

With the official 3 series retractable hardtop launch this weekend, coinciding with the start of the 2007 N.A.I.A.S./Detroit auto show, look at the official website for the car. Its sexy, evocative...it simply inspires desire, as good marketing should. 
I want you to think about how much more professional and thorough this marketing is, especially for a car that is currently unavailable, compared to the information available for the Eos, a car that's been out for months.
http://www.bmwusa.com/BMW2003/...hcp=1 



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 4:04 PM 1-6-2007_


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## ChicagoVW (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (bougy)*

63,000 Euros???? $80,000!!! Yikes. I'll take my Eos at $35K. It's nice, but not that nice.
Alex


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## ehdg eos (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Very very nice looking site. You know that car does look quite nice. I didn't realize the 330 engine used 2 turbo's though. I like the looks of it but would still like a sunroof for it like the EOS has.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (ehdg eos)*

Mitsubishi is supplying the turbos, if that's an indicator of anything.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Nice car, nice advertising, but they should let the lady drive for awhile, otherwise they risk the car being stereotyped as a dude mobile, and could miss out on a very viable market segment!








*Note:* tongue in cheek comment, don't take it too seriously
Kevin


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (just4fun)*

I guess before too long the car brochures will show which accessories to buy so that your car will be absolutely male, female, gay or what ever you want and people won't wonder about what it is because they will know. (A tongue in the other cheek).


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (bougy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bougy* »_For my part, I don't like BMers that much because of the image (here a lot of leasing cars are 320d with "black plastic handles", I mean no options, and they are always in left lanes with passing lights on, thinking that because of the agressive face of the car, they have to drive the same way).


I live in Los angeles... i hate BMer's for the same reason... lifestyle leasers living hand to mouth as they try to one-up their friends...

_Quote, originally posted by *bougy* »_
VW design is quite insipid for a while now (but MR Bangle at BM is insane : look the Z4 or 5 series ... bouaaaah) , and even the day I signed the EOS I was thinking that the EOS in insipid (specially the back).


I agree but I liek that quality. Many of the "criticisms" of the styling for the Eos has to do with being as a result of its practicality: Higher rear quaters = more usable trunk space. So while the G6 looks sleeker, its not as useful trunk wise. If I were to spend 30K on a car that is going to be a daily driver, I need it to be practical. the Eos is _just_ practical enough..
I do like the fact that, epecially with the top up, that ti looks a bit dull.... I don;t want to be driving a car that attracts too much attention... thats just me. top down she is SCHWEET!!!


_Quote, originally posted by *bougy* »_

For the 3er design, I also think that something is not going fine in the back, the trunk looks too flat (the complete car looks flat when top down) but maybe the US market is loving that (50's big flat cars).

 
Yup! this yankee loves the flat trunk!!! very "american".. I;m not into the bubble car look... like the lexus convertable... not my tastes....


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_I figured I'd do an update, since this was a pretty popular thread. The Canadian specs just hit for the 3 series retractible hardtop...ahead of the USA specs. Physical dimensions are here as well. I read somewhere that the 3 is currently the most rigid convertible in the BMW lineup, even more rigid than the 6 series convertible.
http://www.e90post.net/e93productbulletin.pdf
Price information is said to be 3 weeks away for USA market.
_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:16 AM 12-12-2006_

I luv all of the arrows pointed to the front of the car to show how angry the designers made it look!!! "corona daytime running lights"!! heheh... GGGRRRRRR!!!!
the EOS can use some similar marketing balls enlargement...


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## ChicagoVW (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (archiea)*


_Quote, originally posted by *archiea* »_
I do like the fact that, epecially with the top up, that ti looks a bit dull.... I don;t want to be driving a car that attracts too much attention... thats just me. top down she is SCHWEET!!!


Me TOO! Living in the middle of the City, I'd rather NOT have a car that screams "I'm an expensive car, abuse me, break into me, or steal me!". When the top is up it's a stealth car, but with the top down you just want to **** (fill in your desired verb here, I'm thinking of a particularly naughty one). And another thing, I'm noticing an involutary reaction of pity when I see a BMW 325, bordering on contempt for the lack of imagination. Makes me sound like a snob, and I'm surprised at myself, but I can't help it.....
Alex


_Modified by ChicagoVW at 3:22 PM 1-6-2007_


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## bougy (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (ChicagoVW)*

archiea, chicago, I agree completely about the common look when closed (my car will sleep outside near the train station the whole day and outside my house the whole night), very practical.


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## Steve_UK (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (bougy)*

There is a configurator for the 2007 3-series convertible on the bmw.co.uk website. Try the link below:
http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/eco....html
A roughly same specification 3-series to the EOS which is on its way to me came out at *just* under £10K dearer (!!) and it did not look anywhere near as good!! £10K is a third as much again as I am paying for my EOS (£31K).


_Modified by Steve_UK at 3:50 PM 1-6-2007_


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## ChicagoVW (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (Steve_UK)*

I just walked through it and came out at GBP 37,000 for all the same stuff I got on my Eos -- that's $74,000 which is more than DOUBLE what I paid for my Eos.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Alex


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (ChicagoVW)*

First it appears the British pay a "premium" for BMW's. Given that, I looked up the price of a base 6 series convertible @ 52,000 pounds at 1.92 exchange rate gives an effective price of $99,000. In the states the base 6 series is $81,500, which give a ratio of 82/99 or 82.3%.
Next I take the base 3 series convertible at 33,000 pounds at 1.92 = $63,000. $63,000 times the ratio of 82.3% = $52,000.
Or the 335i sedan is 30,900 pounds at 1.92 = $59,300 and in the US it's $39,300 which gives a ratio of 39/59 = 66%. Using this ratio against the $63,000 gives a $41,000 price.
So in US dollars the base 3 series convertible should be between $41-$52,000. Add leather and automatic and I doubt the car will come in less than $50,000 conservatively--that's nuts!



_Modified by flheat at 8:47 PM 1-6-2007_


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (flheat)*

If you base the prices for a 335i sedan at just under 40k and add 5k for a convertible that would make a minimum starting point at 45K. Fully loaded I would expect the price to easily pass 50k. I like BMW. Was interested in a 330i for a time. Just too rich for my blood......


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## GurnyGub (Nov 21, 2006)

My UK Eos v6 is costing me $63,000 at today's rate. The BMW 325 conv. with approximately the same spec. is $76,250. I think that should make every American Eos owner grin and feel lucky today. Just don't start me about petrol!
John


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (GurnyGub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GurnyGub* »_ Just don't start me about petrol!
John

There's really nothing discuss about petrol. Petrol and Gasoline are 2 entirely different products which are NOT comparable....that's why they have such vastly different prices. 
Gasoline is a lower quality, lower octane fuel, and the price reflects about 20% for tax. 
Petrol, on the other hand is higher octane fuel, and the precise reason it costs so much more is because its overused by European governments as a vehicle for tax collection. The price of Petrol in England can reflect a tax rate of 78%. Those taxes contribute to the whole range of government spending, including education, health care, social security, the police, etc. There's no national health care in the USA...we pay plenty of money for taxes, health care and social security, just by other methods. So there is a balance that you are not acknowledging when you simply look at the price of vehicle fuel by itself.
http://money.howstuffworks.com/gas-price.htm
http://www.transport2000.org.u...D=242



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:37 PM 1-7-2007_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Look, any nation which regularly referes to a liquid 'Gas' obviously cannot use the English Language...


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (GurnyGub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GurnyGub* »_ Just don't start me about petrol!
John

For comparison, here is a link that gives fuel tax rates for Canada, it varies by Province, but the average is 35% tax rate. (2005 average)
http://www.petro-canada.ca/en/media/2128.aspx
Apoprox. $.25 cents per litre are "fixed rate" tax, while sales taxes range between 6% and 15% depending on province.
Kevin


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## GurnyGub (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Wolf
Where in 'Just don't start me about petrol' did you spot that I was failing to acknowledge the issues? I merely find them painfully tedious. Owning a staff heavy business in the UK for 22 years makes me very aware of HOW my tax money goes, just don't start me on WHERE!


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Look, any nation which regularly referes to a liquid 'Gas' obviously cannot use the English Language...









Well considering that if you leave it open to the air long enough it evaporates, Gas can be used to describe it...
but its really just short for Gasoline...


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (GurnyGub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GurnyGub* »_Wolf
Where in 'Just don't start me about petrol' did you spot that I was failing to acknowledge the issues? I merely find them painfully tedious. Owning a staff heavy business in the UK for 22 years makes me very aware of HOW my tax money goes, just don't start me on WHERE! 

Sorry John, apparently I've misunderstood the jist of your original comment. My approach was from the point that I've just seen too many unfair/simplistic comparisons between the price of fuel in Europe with the price in North America that always seem to irrationally conclude with the sentiment that we should be grateful about fuel prices here...without considering the whole economic picture. That's obviously not what you were getting at.


_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 6:01 PM 1-8-2007_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (gizmopop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gizmopop* »_
Well considering that if you leave it open to the air long enough it evaporates, Gas can be used to describe it...
but its really just short for Gasoline... 

Understood, however at nearly $3.00 a gallon (US) in the bay area that would be a fairly expensive way of proving a point (however not nearly as expensive as it would be on the other side of the pond.) It is still an extremely effective way of ending arguments over the correct use of English (Vs American), something I still find myself having to do after nearly 17 years on this side of the Pond

_Modified by mark_d_drake at 2:16 PM 1-8-2007_


_Modified by mark_d_drake at 2:16 PM 1-8-2007_


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## GurnyGub (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Wolf
None taken. It's not the place to get into a discussion about how increasingly harshly we UK motorists feel we are being treated by our government either. Suffice to say we are.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (GurnyGub)*

Just in case anybody is wondering, the retractible hardtop in the new BMW E93 is sourced from Edscha. The link below has been added to the top post as well. See 5th paragraph.
http://www.edmunds.com/insidel...17268 
Wikipedia also has a record of other appliactions of Edscha roofs. Looks like all their other work is soft tops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edscha


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## Gunship (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (bougy)*

Any car can look pretty at double the price.
EOS http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gunship (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (Gunship)*

An SA motor writer has tested the Beemer and Here is what he has to say.
Interesting rear leg room !


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## ashbinder (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: Eos Vs. new 3 series Retractible Hard Top (Gunship)*

I don't think it's really a fair comparison between these two cars, but considering the price difference, the Eos holds up well. Depends on priorities of the buyer.
Gunship, did you read the first drive for the Eos on that website? 
http://www.motoring.co.za/inde...d=381
It's quite amusing...emphasizes how in some ways, the Eos is quite polarizing.


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## snb3 (Oct 9, 2000)

BMW all the way, Got rid of our E46Cic last summer and took wifey for a look. Wifey thinks the narrow Eos reminds her of the Cabrio.
The BMW will be the better than the Eos & Volvo in almost every way but I can't see myself spending an addtional $15k-$20k over the Eos as the Eos does everything well enough. The current BMW 328cic goes mid $40k's so this will probably start @ over $50k with auto & sport.
So ultimately an EOS 2.0 & $20k in my back pocket.


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## northvw (Jul 14, 2006)

*BMW, EOS, G6, Volvo, and Sebring Hardtop convertibles all at Detroit Auto Show*

Just got back from Detroit where I had a chance to take in last week's North American International Auto Show. It was fun comparing all of the different hardtop convertibles available to US buyers in one setting. Only the G6 was being demonstrated with the top going up and down. BMW closed theirs up at the end of the day. A few comparative comments. The fit and finish on the Sebring was clearly prototype quality as the seals looked pretty uneven and poorly aligned. The BMW was the sleekest most sporty looking of the lot. The looks of the Sebring is an improvement over the looks of its current soft top model. The Volvo looks, well like a Volvo. The G6 is eye catching from the right angle. 


_Modified by northvw at 3:01 AM 1-25-2007_


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## ChicagoVW (Sep 10, 2006)

*MotorTrend Review*

Motor Trend just reviewed the BMW 3-series hard top convertible. Base price is $41-47,000. You can read the article here:
http://www.motortrend.com/road...tible
I didn't read it as a glowing review exactly, but not bad overall. The deal breaker for me would be the RWD. It's just not practical where it snows.....
Alex


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: MotorTrend Review (ChicagoVW)*

Autospies put up a neat video test of the 335i. Its worth watching the video to see the interior ambient lighting that illuminates the interior door and side panels. Its at 3:22 into the video. Too bad the Eos does not have something like this, or illuminated door sills.
http://www.autospies.com/news/...12585/


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## GurnyGub (Nov 21, 2006)

Thanks for the link to another v positive test. Did anyone else think the seatbacks were very low? And there was no boot/trunk view, up or down. Then the auteur/amateur cameraman spent over 75% of his time in-car showing only the driver's head, holymoly! Good to know the UK doesn't have a monopoly on shoddy tv. I think VW have the interior lighting right, discrete, effective and on the button BTW. The BM is asking for a 'disco' afterjob!
John


_Modified by GurnyGub at 4:02 PM 2-16-2007_


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## tannita16 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: (GurnyGub)*

As most women, I don't know much about engines







. So can anyone explain to me how come the Mazda Speed 6, with a 2.4L, I4 with one turbo can achieve 270hp, whereas the 335 with a 3.0, I6 twin-turbo can only achieve 300hp? Even our Eos V6 can get 250hp without any turbo assistance. Like I said, I don't know much about engines, so can anyone tell me what am I missing here?


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: (tannita16)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tannita16* »_As most women, I don't know much about engines







. So can anyone explain to me how come the Mazda Speed 6, with a 2.4L, I4 with one turbo can achieve 270hp, whereas the 335 with a 3.0, I6 twin-turbo can only achieve 300hp? Even our Eos V6 can get 250hp without any turbo assistance. Like I said, I don't know much about engines, so can anyone tell me what am I missing here?









I think driveability and reliability is the culprit here, although there are certain specific aspects to each car. 
The Mazdaspeed 6 is slotted as the performance version of the 6, so a turbocharged 4 cylinder can fit its character better...(ie the 'intended' audience isn't going to mind the turbo kick in the back or less than smooth power delivery)
with the 335, BMW definitely has different priorities in the driving characteristics and power delivery, the use of 2 turbos is reflected more in the lowend torque delivery and flat torque curve afterwards than ultimate horsepower numbers. Germans tend to prefer excellent torque characteristics early on in the rpm range as several engines from both BMW and VAG show.
Aftermarket tuning has shown that ridiculous amounts of power are available with minor re-programming...BMW has however decided to void the warranty of anyone performing these mods on their turbo engines.
The other reason BMW is using turbos in this 3.0 liter I6 is that bumping the displacement any further would make the packaging of a new 3 series quite a task. The nose/hood would have to be elongated to accomodate a larger inline 6 3.2/3.4/3.6l (it's already longer due to crash safety standards), to then maintain 50/50 front/rear balance the cabin would have to be moved back to maintain class comparable interior room (the 3 is usually on the smaller end of the scale in this dept.) I would imagine that as the overall size of the class increases, a larger inline six could return as an engine option (turbocharging as a the midrange option) 
Yes the E46 M3 uses a 3.2 liter engine to make 333 hp but it only makes 262 torque _(note it was making this much when it was release in 2001)_. The competition to the 3 series is already using larger 3.5 liter V6 engines (IS350, G35) both making 300 + and around 270 torque, I suspect they can extract more power at this displacement, + they have the option of going to a larger displacement because of the V6 configuration. The 3 series (especially the M3) doesn't have this option, hence why the M3 is going V8 (the competion S4/RS4 is already using a V8) and the mid range 3 gets turbocharged.
Sorry this post went long.


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

Marry me.....


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (archiea)*

I have to say I'm surprised that this is such a popular thread with over 4800 views.
Pricing was released today for the BMW 3 series retractible hardtops. The base price of the 328i convertible is $43,200 which puts it about $200 less than a fully optioned 3.2L Eos (not counting accessories like all weather floor mats).
The 335i convertible starts at $49,100. I'm not feeling that at all. So let the http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif begin for the new 3.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/...48844 



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 8:42 PM 2-26-2007_


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## ehdg eos (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Tack on another $3,600 if you add on the Cold package, Lux package and Sport package. Damn sounds like a great buy to me!!


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (ehdg eos)*

Of course, you are paying for some of your servicing upfront in those prices


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Of course, you are paying for some of your servicing upfront in those prices

That's a good trick, get your customer to pay for 4 years worth of maintenence up front by integrating it into the price of the car, then present it as "free maintenence"...as if BMW and your dealer is doing you some sort of a favor. Have we gotten any closer to getting better avatars so I can change mine yet?
hint...


















_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:52 PM 2-26-2007_


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