# Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system?



## guitarman (Jul 11, 2004)

Has anyone had this done? If so, how did it work out? What did you use? Where did they tap in to the existing system for the amp input? Also, has anyone replaced the rear speakers for better sound/better balance? If so what did you use and how are the results? Thanks in advance.


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## Fatz B (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (guitarman)*

I have added a sub and replaced the speakers. There is not a lot of bass (but more than I had) because I only put a 8 inch sub built into the side wall, but you could add a box and have mulitple 10's or 12's. The speakers sound is clear, bright and a 100 times better. Used a 5 channel amp to power everything.


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## chipauten (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Fatz B)*

What speakers did you install and where did you install the sub?


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## Fatz B (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (chipauten)*

I used MB Quart 6.5 components and the sub was installed in the compartment opposite of the cd changer.


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Fatz B)*

Hey Fatz
I am insane with the sound out of the "premium" stereo. I have an 04 V8, and am shocked by how little sounds comes from the rear. I really need some advice on this. Is this just the way it is, or is there some sort of Vag Com (or other software) Fix for the front- speaker bias??? 
Th front sounds OK, but there is literally 2% out of the back. Its infuriating. I have taken to the dealer and called VWoA and they are "looking into it". 
Here's the thing: If its permanent, then Ill toss the factory speakers and upgrade as you have. Did you do front AND rear, plus sub, or what? Any advice really appreciated. I've posted a few times on front speaker bias, but no one else seems as botheres by this. I am insane with this.
Thanks!!!! [email protected]


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## Fatz B (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*

Jasonrao,
I did replace all the speakers, 6.5 MB Quartz RCE-216 on each door. Left the center channel and added a 8 inch sub in the empty enclosure in the back. All this powered by a 5 channel amp. The sound is very clean and crisp. There is moderate bass, due to the fact I could only fit a 8 in that enclosure. If you want a lot of bass you would need to have bigger subs and put a box in your cargo area. 
I could not take the lack of quality of sound from the factory speakers. If music is really important to you I would suggest you look into changing the speakers. I also got an ipod installed in the cup holder, but the whole install took 2 installers 13 hours to do it.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

What kind of amp and sub did you use(brand, Power)? Where is the amp located?
Also, did you put the tweeters that come with the rce-216 in their factory locations? Front and back?
Do 6.5 speakers fit into factory locations without adaptors?
Do you know if they used factory wiring, or did they run all new cables?
Sorry, for so many questions, but I would also like to replace my speakers.
Thanks


_Modified by irom124 at 5:00 PM 11-5-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (irom124)*

There is a thread in the FAQ that gives all the speaker sizes.


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Fatz B)*

Fatz,
Really helpful. Thanks so much. 
I just returned from a few custom car stereo places, that were all somewhat overwhealmed by the prospect of hooking into the Nav stereo. All were worried (one in particular) that the warranty on the Nav system stereo would be void if I started tapping into the radio wiring. Since there is no RCA out, (right spockcat?), this requiires total replacement of speakers, with sep amp. 
Anyway, you're the first person I have found that is as dissatisfied as I am. I have given up dealing with VW on this. There is basically no sound coming from the back of my $50,000 car. Im at the point now where the cost isnt so much a worry as just getting high quality sound is!
Anyway thanks so much again
Jason


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## Fatz B (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (irom124)*

Irom124,
I used a JL Audio 8 inch sub and a 5 channel Eclipse amp. I don't have the parts numbers in front of me but I can get them when I get home. The speakers next to the door handle were disconnected in the fron and back. In the front the tweeter was replaced the speakers next to the mirrors and the 6.5 are in the door. In the back the entire speaker 6.5 and tweeter were placed in the door. I don't believe an adoptor was needed because I was not charged for it and I have some for my Acura CL before and they were not cheap. Has far as the wiring I am not so sure I was not charged anything extra. The amp location was tricky especially if you want to keep the entire functionality of the cargo area. In order to put the sub in the empty compartment in the back They built an entire new cover to go over it. It looks like the factory cover except you can not just take it on and off. So the built another one of the enclosure were the cd changer resides and and the amp is mounted along that wall. Since the amp is mounted to that cover and can not be removed to get to the cd changer, the installers seperated the cover with the top 25% being able to come off to use the cd changer.
It is pretty tough to explain but if you have any more questions let me know. You can email ([email protected]) or let me know if you need to call me . Or just continue to use this post. It is a pretty hard install due to the fact the touareg is built so well. I was more than impressed with the installation. This is probable the best install I have had and I have had complicated systems in my previous 4 cars.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

Thanks a lot, Fatz. If it's not too much trouble, please let us know model of the amp, so we know the size that would fit in that compartment.
I may decide to tackle this project on my own, as I've installed a few audio systems before. I may want to try running new speakers off the nav radio directly(using built in amp), to see if I get an improvement in sound, and if not satisfied, add an amp and sub. I used to have standard radio, which I replaced with Navi, so my current stereo output is even worse than what you started with. 
It sounds like they used factory wiring, and tapped into it at the same place where your old amp was for new amp and speakers. 
In my case, I'm assuming since there is no amp, the wiring is directly from head unit to speakers, which may complicate my amp install. Another concern is the warranty. It's nice to hear from someone who had actually done it to his car.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*

Jason,
What output is available from the nav radio has been discussed in the past but never conclusive. I have always suspected that there is a 4 channel output available from the nav radio. If you look at the schematic of the radio in the below picture, you will see an empty plug that I have labeled Audio Output. That plug corresponds to the lower schematic, lower right hand corner. LR-, LR+, LF-, LF+, RR-, RR+, RF-,RF+ 








Several months ago, someone told me they tested for an output on those terminals and didn't get anything. I now believe that in order to get the output, you need to use a VAGCOM to recode the radio. I think you need to recode the radio according to the table in this thread, where the third digit is a 4 rather than a 0. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1643299 
Now someone has to test this theory for me.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

Spockcat,
Wouldn't that be already amplified signal, or pre-amp? I though that when you recode it to "4", it turns on the internal amp.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (irom124)*


_Quote, originally posted by *irom124* »_Spockcat,
Wouldn't that be already amplified signal, or pre-amp? I though that when you recode it to "4", it turns on the internal amp.

The normal nav output is on the wires marked LO-R, LO-L and LINE. I changed my coding to the 4 and there was no difference in the output on those wires that I could hear over the speakers. But it could be that changing to 4 also puts an output on the 4 channel line. The reason I believe this is because there was one person here that had the base radio (no external amp). They switched to the nav radio. The base radio uses a 4 channel output on a plug just like the one that is missing on the nav radio. Initially, they heard no output. But when they switched radio coding, they got the output. 
I don't know how much this signal is amplified. But I would assume you could add a 4 channel amp in the line once you got the output from the nav radio.
I will take a look at the parts list and see if I can come up with the plug that fits the empty slot.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

Spockcat,
I was one of the people who had to change coding to make the navi work with stardard radio speakers.
I recoded it to 0005467, and it started working. Ofcourse when istalling the navi, I didn't not take notice which pins were used in the plug. There was just one plug though(with a release lever), with some empty space. 
Is it safe to assume that standard radio setup use wires running directly to the speakers, with no wiring whatsoever where the amp usually is? If so, then where does the signal get split to different speakers such as tweeters, midrage, etc? Is there a crossover somewhere? Also, do you know how good the internal navi amp is? 
Even if I'm already using that plug, it would still be nice to get part numbers to create a new one, so that I'm not cutting any factory wiring, and can switch back if needed.
Thanks


_Modified by irom124 at 8:03 PM 11-5-2004_


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Spock,
I will be your guinea pig. If you have a cable available, i'll gladly buy one and test. 
problem is, i'm a total VAGCOM rookie. I have no idea where the closest one is, nor do I have any idea what I'm doing. I'm in DC, I'd MORE than glady drive to wherever you are but I imagine that's impossible. Right? I'd throw money at you....http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeropost?cmd=reply&id=16902932#
Anyway, sounds like I need to recode with a 4, and find a plug that works to drive a sep amp which will in turn will pump up the real speakers.
Any suggestiuons welcome, dont think my local Tweeters can handle this.....
Jason


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

Jason,
I'm also in the area, so if you need to vag something, let me know, and I can do it for you if you stop by.


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: (irom124)*

I would definitely take you up on that. Anytime you are free, I'd love to Vag some of these chimes and try to turn on the RCA channels. Would really appreciate that.
Feel free to shoot me e-mail. [email protected] Many thanks


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## guitarman (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (jasonrao)*

I just added a sub this weekend. Used a 1-250 JL Audio amp and a 2-10" sub enclosure from JL as well. Installer tapped into the front speaker lines for audio input to the sub amp. Took them 8 1/2 hours to just get to the battery and hook the thing up properly, but it really does sound great and makes a huge difference. Spent the better part of 4 hours fine tuning the crossover frquency, slope and gain etc to make it sound good and blend properly. The installer commented that even though he was wanting to rip his hair out, the Treg is really well made and well insulated for noise etc.


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## Vega (Jul 28, 2004)

Those hours are pretty funny, I hope you did not pay high rates. Did they take a break every hour for 30 minutes or something?


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## tregman (Oct 9, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*

Here is my two cents! I also have a 04 V8 with NAV and Upgraded sound system. The system is horrible. Dealer is personal friend and I have "tested" three other Tregs, all the same. Rear fading sucks, phasing sucks, frequency range completely missing, in short, a terrible implementation of the sound system. There is a sound mixer chip on-board the rear amplifier that could possibly be reprogrammed via can-bus (VAG-COM?) to correct equalization, fading and other issues. However, it seems that the only person that may know how to do this is buried deep within VW in Germany. I have been unable to locate any info on this issue. My answer was to gut the amp and speakers and replace same with top-of-the-line alpine equipment. Unfortunately, it ran me $2200.00, but the system is fantastic! There are many less expensive solutions, depending on your personal taste, of course. Good Luck!


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (tregman)*

Tregman-
i feel your pain. Both irom124 and I are looking into gutting and replacing most if not all of the system. We have heard that Eclipse PA5532 amp with MB Quartz RCE216 fit well and sound great. Could you give us the stats on what you put in? What brand name, etc. And did they require any special mods? Also do you think your install voids the warranty on the Nav system?
i believe Irom is replacing everything, I plan to try to add a new 4-channel line off the Nav radio to a new amp to drive upgraded rear speakers and a new subwoofer. This would leave the front as is (for now). 
Thanks for any info.


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (guitarman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *guitarman* »_Also, has anyone replaced the rear speakers for better sound/better balance? If so what did you use and how are the results? Thanks in advance.

I recently found out it is the amp is the first issue to tackle. As an experiment, I removed the rear door panel and unplugged the factory speakers. Then I plugged in new speakers to see what they would sound like. 
Bass is crap, frequency response is missing. Fader is still way off. The biggest problem is not the speakers. It is the amp and/or the crossover.
The speakers are far from the greatest, but are capable of putting out much better sound then they are doing currently. The output from the rear amp is the most pathetic that I have ever seen in a car produced in the last 10 years.


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## VenetianGreenTouareg (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (treg4574)*

Thanks for doing that test, that makes it easier to do a targeted upgrade without ripping out the entire system.
I have generally found that even stock speakers can sound very good when quality amplification is behind them.
Improving the amp is sort of a challenge, however, since there is no doubt an electronic crossover in the amp.
So now the problem (for us DIYers) is:
1. Find a full range signal to tap into, hopefully line level, not speaker level. Bypass the amp for the rear channel.
2. Add an amp and crossover for the rear speakers.
3. Tap back into the existing speaker wiring with the upgraded amplification.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Here is an update on my install with details for anyone planning on doing the upgrade. 








I've installed an 8" subwoofer, JL 8W7, in a hidden enclosure behind left trunk trim panel. 








I've molded the enclosure out of fiberglass. It's bigger than the storage compartment was and goes farther over the wheel well. Volume of the enclosure is around 20 liters and I used pillow filling inside the box to compensate for around 20% or so of volume, since JL recommends 24.8 L. I glued sound deadening material(carpet-like) to all outside surface of the box to keep it from rattling. I don't have any pictures of the enlosure still out of the car, since I only started taking pictures when everything was done except for rear door speakers. With this sub, I can have as much bass as I can stand and a lot more







I also protected the sub from moving objects in the trunk with an aluminum sub grill. The sub was connected directly to the amp with a 12 gauge twisted cable.
Amp is Eclipse PA-5532 5 channel 960 watt. I ran speaker level cables to it from the back of the Nav radio (you can see those going into the amp on the right side of it in the picture).








I routed the speaker cables under the right side sills/carpet. Speaker cables coming out of the amp are going back behind the radio to use original speaker wiring to drive the speakers. It looks like oem speaker cable is 16 gauge, so it should be enough. My original radio was standard, then I upgraded Nav. So, my speakers were wired directly to the radio. If you have an amp in your car, your speaker output wires from the new amp will have to go where your old amp is instead of back to where the radio is. Then I ran 4 gauge power cable for the amp on the left side of the car to the battery. For ground, I also used 4 gauge cable and grounded it to on of the bolts under rear seats. I used monster cable amp install kit as well as speaker wires.
I upgraded speakers to component 2-way MB Quart RCE-216. 
Old speakers vs new:








They come with a midrange 6.5 speaker, a tweeter, and a crossover. For the front doors, I mounted the tweeters in the original location next to the side-view mirrors. For the back doors, I mounted the tweeter inside the midrange speakers. Speakers come with many to mount, so this was one of them.







I've decided against mounting the rear tweeters next to the handle, because speaker that is there is much larger and the space would be difficult, but not impossible to utilize for the new smaller tweeter. I didn't want to bother with that, because I never ride in the back seat anyway







. Speakers next to door handles were disconnected, could've easily left them connected, since I used factory wiring, but decided to leave them off so they wouldn't get in the way of tuned component speakers.
As you can see in the pictures, when mounting the speakers, I used gutted factory speakers as adaptors for the new ones, and it came out beautifully. 
Oem speaker with all the excess removed and new mounting plate inserted:








After removing all unneeded plastic from the oem speakers, new speaker mounting plate just needed to be sanded on the outside diameter in order to fit inside the bracket, it's easier to see on the pictures







This way, they are installed very close to the original way. They don't need to be shaved in the back (as in Brad's install) in order to clear the windows because they're sitting so high off the door. I was able to use original rubber surrounds which direct sound output into the car instead of inside the door panel and keep road noise out. I was even able to use factory plug on the speakers and soldered wires from inside the the old speaker bracket from the new speakers( see the pictures).
















I had to drill an additional hole in the bracket for tweeter wiring in the back doors, because original plug only has two pins. This was not excess for the front doors, because tweeter are mounted outside the speakers. I only have pictures of the rear speakers install, but the front doors are exactly the same except for outside tweeter mounting. Here is a picture of the finished rear door install. 








The speakers were riveted back to the door using 3/16" medium length rivets.
I mounted the front tweeters using the same method of gutting the the stock tweeter and using it's bracket to hold the new tweets. Front and back speakers were exactly the same size and everything. 
Crossovers were mounted without the enclosures they came in, because I didn't want to run into any clearance problems with the door panel.
I even found a present for myself







Techs left this cool LED flashlight under driver's seat carpet(you can only get under there after you remove side sill panels), when they replaced the carpet due to water leakage. This was because some drain tube got plugged by a leaf when the car was seating on the dealer's lot before sale.









Now for impressions








After adding the amp and sub, music was drastically improved. After I also swapped out the speakers, sound got more clear and bright. In short I'm very happy with the result, especially the difference that the sub makes








The amp has adjusments for front/rear gain levels, sub crossover level, and high-pass frequency. With the sub crossover set at 85hz(JL recommended) and sub output level turned up the car can really rumble. Bass and treble adjustments on the Nav are also functional.
Please let me know if you have any questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by irom124 at 4:42 PM 11-25-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

Lots of work and extra parts and pieces exposed in the car but I bet it sounds nice.
I am wondering whether there are high quality speaker upgrades available in the stock sizes? Also, would it be possible to add a small amp to the rear speakers to compensate for the poor rear fading of the nav radio?


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Aftermarket speakers don't come in stock 8" size(at least I coudn't find any). Even if they did, you would have to make some sort of an adaptor to raise the speaker two or more inches, otherwise they'll interfere with front windows tracks. Even smaller 6.5 speakers mount this way are still pretty tight behind in the back of the speaker.
Small amps don't usually sound as good as larger ones, but I'm sure you can probalby find a smaller(still not as small as stock) three channel amps. Even this amp is switchablle 3 or 5 channels. Three channels would power two speakers and an amp.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

The speaker you cut up, 220mm bass according to the list, looks like a subwoofer speaker. I'm no car stereo expert but would you consider it this type of speaker? I don't suppose you have the depth dimension of this speaker? Any other photos of the rest of the door speakers?


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

The list doesn't seem to be accurate, because both front and rear bass speakers were 220mm, and 4ohm(as you can see from the picture). The list you're refferring to lists both front and rear as being 2ohm, and size of the rear as 168mm. I don't have depth measurments, but you can find out what it is for RCE-216 from specs and oem are about the same depth, maybe 1/4-1/2" less. That is including the 2" or so raising plate. There is very little space inside actualy door opening, probably less than an inch. Yes those speakers were producing all the bass and some of midrange as well. The cone of the speaker looks more like a sub than an allrange speaker.
JL sub that installed in the back is around 7" in depth, this is in part so the cone can have plenty of travel. I can probably find some low profile subwoofer speaker that would fit in there, but then where do you put an inclosure? By the looks of the oem speaker, it looked like a very plain low quality speaker. You can all parts of it in the pictures, a cone and magnet. Then compare it to composition of a JL sub which you can see on JL's website. MB quart speakers also appeared much more complicated with more parts to it behind the cone than just a magnet.
I don't think you'll be able to find any high quality speakers in 2.36" size to replace the midrange speakers next to handles. They're held in there with just a spring, so it's going to be difficult to retrofit speakers in there even if of similar size.



_Modified by irom124 at 6:54 PM 11-25-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

Thanks for the info. The list is from the Bentley manual. This doesn't mean it is right though. So I will put a notation that the front and rear in reality seem to be 220mm and 4 ohms. 
What is the electronic component above the speaker in this photo? Is this something you added or was already there?


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## maczrool (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

The electronic component above the speaker is a crossover. It comes with the speakers.
Stu


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## 12johnny (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*


_Quote, originally posted by *irom124* »_Here is an update on my install with details for anyone planning on doing the upgrade. 

Wow!! Thanks for taking the time to share with us... it must sound really good!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (maczrool)*

Yes, that is a crossover that came with the MB Quart speakers. They devide the signal coming from the amp into the right frequencies for tweeters and allrange speakers. There is one of those in each door. What you see is just the board from the crossovers. I've taken them out of their enclosures/boxes to make sure I don't run into any clearance problems. Crossovers are adjactable using those little red tabs that you see for different tweeter db, it's set from the factory at -6db.


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## FKI (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

what model t-reg do you have? I'm assuming you don't have the air suspension, because I tried putting a sub in that panel, and there was certainly not enough room.
I instead made a fiberglass enclosure to fit inside the spare tire. Cut a hole in the door there and installed the grille.
Much to my shagrin, it sounded like crap.








I put a 12" kicker solobaric L7 in, an it just wasn't right.
So now I simply just have a pain-in-the-neck external box. However, the air pressure it produces can almost pop my skull like a zit.
I'll post what my project came out like eventually.
FKI


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## maczrool (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

I was considering using a 4 inch Q line Quart driver for the speakers next to the front door handles. Do you think they would fit? How hard was it to get the door panels off? Also, did you utilize all the available space over your wheel well for the sub? I had the same idea a while ago, but never implemented it. 
Thanks,
Stu


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## Mr.Veedubya (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (maczrool)*

W7 not to shabby


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (maczrool)*

IROM-
Great to see your install, Ill bet it sounds sweet. Maybe you could be persuaded to help with mine since the custom stereo folks in our area seem a bit taken back by ripping into the egg.
I'm also wondering how a smaller 3-channel amp to the rear stock speakers would sound. I have the stereo II, so Im satisifed with the sound up front. As you know the rear is very weak.
I just got Spocks custom RCA adapter creation in the mail today to run to a new amp for the job. Based on your experience with switching to the Nav radio, and the Vag we did to turn the output on, I'm hoping this will work. Will test it soon. 
I plan on running wires and what not myself, but may ask for insights if things get hairy. Worried about the amp. Your sub install is great, want to avoid a box.
Thanks again for the update and pics!


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (FKI)*

FKI,
I don't have air suspension, but I don't think it matters in this case.
What you probably have is 4-zone air. In that case you'll have condenser for rear air conditioning under that panel.
maczrool,
I don't think that a 4" speaker would easily fit in there without major modifications. Eventhough, anything is possible if you have enough will and/or money







That speaker is mounted on the door trim panel and is held in there with just a spring, kind of like an H4 headlight bulb. So, you would have to make some sort of mounting plate, possible out of fiberglass, and the grill would still be too small for a 4" speaker in place of 2" speaker, so you might loose some sound as it would bounce back at the speaker from the door panel. If you can find a 2.5 speaker, that would be easier to mount.
Yes, I used most availabe space for the enclosure. It went all the way upto under the lock where the cargo cover is held. You can probably go a little farther to the front if you're willing to put extra work to it.
Door panels are relatively easy to remove and reinstall. In fact mounting them back on is easier than on any other car I've taken apart. Everything just falls exactly in its place, and lock into place. To remove, just use some sort of rigid plastic prying tool. I used a screwdriver wrapped in tape, and left some scratches under the door panels that I had touch up with paint. Those completely invisible once you put the panel back on. The hard part is to pry off the clips from the side, one by one. Don't just pull on the panel, or it may crack, as they're relly tight in there. There are about four clips on each side of each door. After you take off the panel, make sure to take any clips left in the door and put them back into the door panel. Also, make sure that you unclick each clip as they seem to kindof "open or unckick" by sliding their axis. It's not that easy to unlick them ones the're out of the door and panel without breaking them. Usually, they're supposed to unlick and and release their grip on the door, but some of them come out of the door panel instead, and some come out with panel, but still stay locked, so you'll need to open them.
Jason,
A smaller 3-channel amp would probably be a great improvement, for the rear speakers. I don't think that you need an adaptor to run a sub if you're installing an amp. You can just run 4(or 2) speaker level outputs from your radio to your amp and connect your sub directly to the amplifier. If each speaker is connected separately to the oem amp, then you can also put a crossover next to the new amp to drive different speakers in the doors. You'll also need to find a way to mount the smaller amp, next to cd changer is probably possible(and it would be nice to have the wires going to the speakers available close by, from the old amp), but can be tricky as you would have to fabricate some sort of a mounting bracket. In case you're planning on making a fiberglass sub enclosre or amp rack, here is a good website with directions http://web.njit.edu/~cas1383/proj/main/
I can give you printed directions on how to remove side sills to run the wires or any panels that you're looking to remove. I can definately help you if you get in a jam.


_Modified by irom124 at 4:43 PM 11-27-2004_


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## maczrool (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

Thanks for the info! Did you have the Sound System I or II? I have the Sound System I with 300 watts, so I'm hoping there's enough power from the amp to power aftermarket speakers without adding an amp. That way I would only need to add a sub amp for the W7.
Ever considered making more sub enclosures for other Touareg owners?
I would like instructions on removing the sills. Could you post them online?
Thanks,
Stu


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (maczrool)*

I had a standard radio setup. Not sure if it's sound I or "0"








As others have pointed out, the amp is the weakest point, so I wouldn't recommend upgrading the speakers before the amp, but you can start with speakers and if not satisfied upgrade the amp. After I installed an amp and a sub, sound quality got much better than it was, even with old speakers. Factory speakers can do much better with higher quality amplification. 
To remove door sills:
Remove B-pillar trim
Pry trim out of sill panel
Remove two screws in the front and two in the back
Pull sill panel strip out of mountings in sill panel and out of door seal beading
To remove B-pillar trim:
Remove airbag emblem and remove screw behind it
Pull B-pillar trim out of mountings in body and door seal
Separate wiring harness from vent
Installation is performed in reverse order of removal, just start from the lower part B-pillar and go up. Also, make sure you align seat belt height adjusment button(if you have manual adjustment) when installing the b-pillar trim, and make sure adjustmen works before replacing the screw and airbag emblem.
I'm not considering of making any more of these enclosures, because they are a pain to make, especially for the first time. Resin and fiberglass cloth/mats arent cheap either. Make sure you get a good mask, if you decide on molding one. My
mask, didn't seem to let any smell through, but I guess some fumes went through. Because I felt really dizzy after working with the resin for a while. Instruction are on the website I posted earlier. I used the plastic lining that is behind the trim panel, cut off a side of the box/lining where it goes over the wheel. Then, using carton from shipping boxes, I added required additional space to the plastic liner. I lined all of the inside surfaces of the new mold with duct tape and then used it to make the box by aplying resin/cloth to the inside of the form. I did all of this out of the car, which made it much easier. Most people start molding enclosures out of resin right inside the car to give it required shape. 
Hope this helps


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## maczrool (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

Thanks again! 

_Quote, originally posted by *irom124* »_I had a standard radio setup. Not sure if it's sound I or "0"









Do you have a CD changer bracket behind the panel on the side opposite your subwoofer? I believe that is how they hold the SSI and SSII amp in place. If you have the bracket, there would be an amp mounted just above where the CD changer would fit. Thus you would have the Sound System I or II installed.
I have the standard non-nav headunit with Sound System I. Anybody know if line leve signals are available at the plug going into the amp? 
One last question for irom124, How did you secure the sub enclosure?
Thanks and great job on your installation.
Stu


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## VenetianGreenTouareg (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*

Hi,
Can I have more details on "Spocks RCA creation to add an external amp", as well as "Vagging the radio to activate the outputs"?
I checked Spock's link in his footer, but did not see these items.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (maczrool)*

No, I didn't have a stock amp or cd changer bracket, as they don't come with standard radio setup. My speakers were wired directly to the radio.
Regarding line level output near the amp
From Bentley manual: "The optional "Premium VI - Sound I" system
uses 11 loudspeakers that are powered by an
external 300W amplifier. The radio in this case
provides speaker output signals to the amplifier."
That means that speaker level outputs are available near the amp, but no line level outputs. Those are not available at all, even near the radio, as far as I know.
You can secure the enclosure by just drilling the back wall of the enlosre and metal sheet from the car behind it, and screwing it down. Then you can use silicon around the screw/bolt on the inside of the enclosure. I decided not to secure my enclosure, because it's really tight in there, and has no where to go, front back, top or sides. It's right against the car on all sides, and goes over the wheel well. I glued sound deading material, 1/4" thick, to all sides to keep it from rattling.


----------



## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (VenetianGreenTouareg)*

Link about vagging the radio to activate the outputs was posted by Spockat on the first page of this topic. It activates speaker level outputs from your nav, you would still need to find pins/plug to be able to connect to that output. I have no idea what Spockat has created to connect a sub with RCAs. Perhaps Jason or Spockat will chime in about that.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (VenetianGreenTouareg)*

I made Jason a plug with RCA jacks on the end that will plug into the potential speaker outputs of the nav radio. I say potential because I am only theorizing that you can get output from this source. You seem to be able to if you add a nav radio to a car with the standard radio. If you are interested in one, let's see if Jason has success first.


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Hey Yall,
Sorry I was absent- I was in the Treg most of yesterday with Spock's cable and the wiring diagram.
There is good news and bad news.
Good news: I found the wires off the (crappy) Amp that run directly to the rear doors and disconnected them. It is step one for amplifiying them with a new amp. Really should be a simple install, considering there is extra room in the triunk next to the CD changer and original amp ((not alot). One can now easily envision keeping the fron speakers amplified by the original amp, and driving the rear stock speakers with a new amp located next to the changer, using all the existing wiring. This would be a great, easy way to resolve the front speaker bias that plagues us. Thanks IROM for the wiring diagrams.
Bad news: In order to carry out my master plan, I need signal from the radio. I have the system II, Nav radio. IROM and Spock theorized that a simple Vag would turn on the normally unused signal outputs (see earlier in this link for reference). We did the Vag on my radio, and Spock made me a wire that plugs into the empty plug and comes out with two RCA jacks. I tested this with a spare amp I have in my Vanagon: the bottom line is I could hear the signal coming through the speaker but it was barely audible at any volume. I am not giving up. One possible problem is my amp may need line level input, and this cable isn't?!
IROM and I spoke offline (to avoid boring a larger audience) and he raises a good question: is spocks cable converting signal to line level? I don't know.
Also possible I need to try a different amp? One that accepts these out puts? Maybe I should have asked Spock to make a 16 gauge, regular spweaker wire 8-channel plug instead? Maybe its not needed at all.....
Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong, or what to do next much appreciated. I know this is going to work. i will eventually put together a simple set of instructions on "upgrading the sound to the rear of the Nav II radio" that could include Spocks cable and simple re-wiring in the rear. (Spock, your brilliance is a mixed blessing...). 
Anyway, thanks to Irom for all the help so far.
Jason


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonrao* »_Also possible I need to try a different amp? One that accepts these out puts? Maybe I should have asked Spock to make a 16 gauge, regular spweaker wire 8-channel plug instead? Maybe its not needed at all.....

Not sure using larger gauge wires is going to help unless you have hundreds of watts. If the wiring were reducing the power level by adding too much resistance, then I think it would heat up significantly and you should be able to notice that. Perhaps what you need to do is use a larger amp.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Spockcat,
Did the RCA wires that you made for Jason have a convertor for converting speaker-level into line-level output? If not, then Jason is trying to use speaker level outputs for line-level inputs on his new amp.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

They are strictly a plug that fits into the back of the radio with 60" of wire leading to 4 RCA plugs at the end. No conversion of anything.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Jason, that means that all you need to do is buy a convertor like the one I e-mailed you about, cut off RCA cables from the wiring Spockcat sent you. Connect wires coming out of the plug that is in the back of the radio(the one spockat sent you) to the convertor. Then, buy RCA cable with RCA plugs on both ends to go from the convertor to the new amp. Aplifiers usually have RCA plugs only for line-level inputs. Speaker level inputs are through direct wiring of spkeaker cables.
You can also just run speaker wires from plug at the back of the radio directly to your amp's speaker-level inputs, like I have done, if you don't want to buy anything extra like the covertor or RCA cables.


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## VenetianGreenTouareg (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

This is exciting.
I've done this before, but in my BMW 325. A 12 month project (hacking at it here and there), but it worked great. I bypassed the factory amp and routed that low level signal to a series of amps and crossovers, and sent the amplified signal back through the factory wiring and speakers. Big project, expensive too, but sound was awesome!
You guys sound like you know what you are doing, but let me throw in my two cents. Worst case, this will give information to other pioneers out there. I've not tried any of this on my Touareg for fear of tearing into the interior body panels of my Touareg...but I'm getting more brave all the time.
1. As you probably know, there are two types of signals available to you in a car audio system. There is a "low level" and a "high level". Amplifiers require a low level input, but you can convert a high level input to a low level input with a converter ("Line Output Converter", or LOC). Many car amplifiers have such a converter built in, and as such they give you two types of inputs...low level (or "line level") and high level (or "speaker level"). In almost every case, given the choice between the two, you want to use the low level signal, as you avoid placing obstacles in the signal path (such as the LOC).
If your amp has both types of inputs, try them both with the signal you are getting via Spock's cable. Warning: Keep volume low to avoid breaking things.
2. Another option: If you have a factory amp in your Touareg already, and you have access to it (sounds like you do!), then you can probably assume that the signal coming off the head unit and going into the amp is a low level signal already. So, perhaps instead of using the outputs on the back of the radio (whether they are high level or low level), why not just disconnect the inputs to the amp for the rear channels only (leave front channels in place), and put RCA's on these...then you've accomplished three things. First, you've bypassed the factory amp for the rear channel, and second, you've located a line-level signal that you can route to an amp. Third, you are keeping the interface wiring pretty simple.
3. If #2 is successful, then perhaps spock can get part numbers/parts for the plugs used with the amp, and we can build a bypass plug/harness so we can easily build an adapter to make this possible without cutting wires. Essentially, you would unplug the harness to the factory amp, and plug that harness into an adaptor which in turn plugs back into the amp. It would do the following: 1. Provide a connection for the factory Head Unit to the front channel of the amp, as it is today. 2. Bypass the rear channel amplification, to allow us to upgrade, and 3. Give us access to the preferred low level signal output for the rear speakers...aftermarket amplification is then connected to that.
I hope that makes sense.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (VenetianGreenTouareg)*

The problem using the audio going to the amp is that it is only 2 channel. The amp splits it into 4 channels and uses CANBUS signals from the radio to modify the front to rear fading - rather poorly I might add.
The output from the nav through the cable I made is 4 channel. I just need to know what cable ends and wire gauge is required for best performance and I can build more.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Not sure about what gauge the wires have to be, but knowing that signal going through them is still speaker level, I would use 16 guage, because that is what VW used for speaker wiring in the car.
You do not need to have any cable ends at all, unless you're willing to sell a kit with a convertor included. Every brand amp will have different plug for speaker level input. That is why a wiring harness is usually included with the amp, with a plug into the amp and wires hanging out to connect speaker level cables.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

If the radio is putting out speaker level outputs, then can't jason run directly from the radio to speakers? I understand that he eventually wants to go through an amp but for testing he should be able to go to speakers. I believe that in the standard radio, this is the output and there is no amp inbetween. And people have installed nav radios into cars that had standard radios with no upgrade.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Yes, he can go directly from radio to speakers. That would use internal radio amp. That is how mine worked until I decided to upgrade.


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## VenetianGreenTouareg (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_The problem using the audio going to the amp is that it is only 2 channel. The amp splits it into 4 channels and uses CANBUS signals from the radio to modify the front to rear fading - rather poorly I might add.
.

Spock,
That design would truly baffle me. Absolute crap.
Here is where I got this crazy idea in the first place...perhaps you can validate? I'm referring to a PDF that I got from the Vortex (probably you!), called, "Amplifier for Radio Systems "Sound I" &
Sound II".
On page 91-52, it shows the pinouts for the amp. The Multi-pin connector A, 24-pin, has the following pins of interest to this project:
14-Leftrearaudioinput-
15-Leftrearaudioinput+
17-Rightrearaudioinput-
18-Rightrearaudioinput+
20-Leftfrontaudioinput-
21-Leftfrontaudioinput+
23-Rightfrontaudioinput-
24-Rightfrontaudioinput+
This would lend support to the idea that at least on some radio/amps, there are four separate low-level inputs to the amp.
Now, whether the real life wiring matches the docuumentation is an entirely different story. But if this is true, you should then be able to create a harness as I describe. What do you think?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (VenetianGreenTouareg)*

VGT,
If you look at the below schematic from the back of the radio, you can see the standard audio output to the amp is coded: 
LO-R
LO-L
LINE (ground symbol)
This is in the same plug section that has the telephone and audio only input.








On the bottom right hand you have:
LR+
LR-
LF+
LF-
RF+
RF-
RR+
RR-
This is where the standard radio has it's output. This is seems to be where the nav radio sends it's output when it is installed into a car that originally had only a standard (not upgraded) sound system. You can see this brown plug in the photo below.









Now if you look at this same plug in a car with the nav radio already installed, you will see this brown plug is completely missing. 








So I made up a cable and plug combination for jasonrao to test there on his nav radio.


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## VenetianGreenTouareg (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

OK, granted.
But, what if you HAVE the brown plug? Then, are there separate, low-level outputs that normally route to the amp? (FL, FR, RL, RR)
In which case, is it not possible (for those configurations) to build a harness (that connects at the amp) that would both bypass the rear channels and send the rear L & R outputs to RCA jacks, where they could be plugged into aftermarket amplification?
Sorry if I'm dense.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (VenetianGreenTouareg)*

As I've posted somewhere in this thread... If you don't have Nav, but still have a stock amp, your amp is using that brown plug with speaker level outputs, not line-level. Here is a quote from Bentley's again: "The optional "Premium VI - Sound I" system uses 11 loudspeakers that are powered by an external 300W amplifier. The radio in this case provides speaker output signals to the amplifier."
Also regarding brown plug, another quote from Bentleys, "On "Premium VI - Sound I" systems, the following are outputs are input to the amplifier."
So if you have a nave, then you're missing the brown plug, and your amp is using two channel output from Nav. If you don't have a Nav, but still have upgraded stereo from the factory, you have a brown plug, and your amp is using speaker-level outputs from the radio(or a nav if you put one in later).


_Modified by irom124 at 10:32 PM 11-29-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (VenetianGreenTouareg)*

You could either rewire the existing plug or remove it and install a new brown plug (the plug is removeable from the black carrier). Then go to aftermarket amplification and speaker from there.


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Well, I'm just getting home from work and see that there are all kinds of helpful posts waiting for me. Thanks to all.
Bottom line is I will get a line level converter ASAP and give it a try. This makes sense. I have faith. 
I did try at one point to simply hook up speaker wire to the plug openings in the back of the radio to a test speaker, and got nothing. THis was a very crude hook up so it may not mean anything. 
The fact that I can hear signal and I am plugging into my OEM amp at the "low level" inputs certainly makes me think I need to convert the signal. 
I will post as soon as I can give it a test. Would be exciting indeed. Thanks VGT for the insights. I agree there should be a simple plug in some cases, but I can verify the wires to the Amp agree with what IROM and Spock were saying in the Nav II case. Anyway, if the converter works, it really will be a simple install. 
Jason


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## FKI (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (VenetianGreenTouareg)*

I used Soundgate's LOC's off the factory amp, into the new 5 channel amp/crossovers, etc. Not what I wanted to do (for simplicity sake), but sounds fantastic to me.
http://www.soundgate.com/produ....htm 
Spock, this converter wire you made would eliminate the need for the Factory amp? what about CANBUS, and the ability to fade/balance/tone, etc? Will that functionality still be available? 
Back when I started my project a few months ago, the CANBUS seemed to be the only roadblock in removing/replacing the factory amp.
Thanks!
FKI
PS, I have the NAV system...


_Modified by FKI at 4:50 AM 11-30-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (FKI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FKI* »_Spock, this converter wire you made would eliminate the need for the Factory amp? what about CANBUS, and the ability to fade/balance/tone, etc? Will that functionality still be available? 


My assumption is that the fader/balance/tone controls work on this other output also. I assume this because when someone installs a nav radio in a vehicle with the base sound system, there is no other amp for the radio to control and no one who has added the nav radio has said that they have no control when they put in the nav radio.
jasonrao will be out guinea pig on this though.


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*

Squeek, Squeek. I ordered the line level converters last night, and they arrive tomorrow. Will post results and answer all the questions.
Jason


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*

All,
Tried lines level converters, as well as directly connecting speaker wire from the Nav radio outputs to a test speaker: No signal. 
Not giving up. The vag that Irom did to "turn on" the output worked on his. We are going to look at my numbers again and see if we can't get the signal turned on. We did switch to "4" as earlier discussed, but this hasn't worked on my radio for some reason.
Out of town all week, will meet up IROM next weekend (I hope) to re test vag numbers with a test speaker hooked up. IROM's getting a christmas card from me this year....
Jason


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## jasonrao (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*

UPDATE:
Well, Im back in town and Irom helped me dig back into the treg. 
Long story short, we had to Vag the codes again, as simply changing to "4" did NOT turn on the "standard" radio outputs, as described earlier, in my case. What DID work, was changing the final code to "7" as well. I'll recap, but Irom, you are the Grand Dragon, so correct me if I've forgotten something:
I started with: 0003077
We changed it to: 0023477
(this took care of a couple other VAG's- nav acceptance, seat belt chime, leveling, see FAQ for details). We were hoping the 4 in the fifth place turned on the "standard" 4 chanel output as illustrated by Spock above. 
It did not- (and we didn't have a test speaker hooked up to verify).
Irom deduced we needed to change the last digit like this: (based on his experience of switching from stock to Nav, his numbers
FROM IROM:
I changed the last two numbers to 07, like mine is setup, this turned off the oem amp, turning off the front speakers, but turned on "extra" 4-chanel speaker output. 
I then changed the last two numbers to 17, this turned the oem amp back on and left speaker output turned on, but did not add any region code. 
So ultimately this worked: 0023417
Nothing else changed- still had no seat belt chimes, no nav acceptance screen, and the new chanels were putting out signal. good.

Anyway, the output is finally on, and I'm looking into amplfying and replacing stock speakers.
One Last Important note: Before Rom vagged the new outputs, I made a temporary fix to improve the front speaker bias on the premium stereo: I hooked up a very cheap spare amp I had laying around the house- I simply tapped into the bass speakers in the rear doors (wires near cd changer, see wiring diagram). Wanted people to know this revolutionized the stereo. I KNEW something was missing/wrong in the "Premium" system, and this confirms it. Even slight amplification brings the rear speakers to life. It is a must do for anyone wanting to improve the sound.
I'll post pics when the "big" install is done. Thanks again for the help. Hope this is useful for others.
Jason


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jasonrao)*

Okay, sorry to dig this up from the dead but I'm getting ready to do this and would like to know the specifics on recoding the radio module to enable both the amp outputs and the speaker outputs.
I see that 0023417 worked but don't really like to blindly change coding via VAG and I would like specifics on how you came up with that number.

_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Here is what VAG-COM suggests for coding of module 56:
Touareg (7L) - Radio Coding
?xxxx - Radio configuration (coding is the sum)
+1 - TV-Tuner
+2 - levelling display/Off Road module
?xxxx - Radio configuration (coding is the sum)
+1 - IF-output
+2 - CAN telephone control
+3 - CAN multi-function steering wheel
xx?xx - Loudspeakers
0 - no passive loudspeakers
4 - 8 or 10 passive speakers / 4 speaker channels
xxx?x - sound system correction (coding is the sum)
+1 - sound system
+2 - T5-Multivan (USA/CAN)
+4 - Touareg/T5-Multivan (Rest of World)
+6 - Touareg (USA/CAN)
xxxx? - Radio configuration (coding is the sum)
+1 - remote supplied antenna
+2 - CD-changer
+4 - CAN-secondary display


So if I understand this correctly:
*Old* 0003077
0 - no coding
0 - no coding
0 - no coding
3 - CAN multi-function steering wheel
0 - no coding
7 - Touareg (USA/CAN) & sound system
7 - remote supplied antenna, CD-changer, CAN-secondary display(MFI)
*New*
0
0
2 - levelling display/Off Road module
3 - CAN multi-function steering wheel
4 - 8 or 10 passive speakers / 4 speaker channels
1 - sound system
7 - remote supplied antenna, CD-changer, CAN-secondary display(MFI)
All that does is allow both audio outputs to be enabled correct? Doesn't affect any other changes made via VAG (seat belt chime, Nav acceptance screen, ect)
And last but not least the following is the procedure to recode:
1) start VAG-COM
2) click: “select control module” button
3) in Direct Entry box type: 56
4) click: RECODE 07
5) change code
6) click "Do it"

Are all my assumptions correct?



_Modified by Nefarious1.8t at 9:44 AM 3-16-2005_


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*

Based on my experience re-coding Jason's radio, It's impossible to have both, speaker level outputs and oem outputs, turned on at the same time.
The coding allows it, but when you hook up both, oem amp and speakers to speaker-level outputs, the radio gets confused, and only produces sound of the speaker-level output for a second or so, before shutting it down.


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*


_Quote, originally posted by *irom124* »_Based on my experience re-coding Jason's radio, It's impossible to have both, speaker level outputs and oem outputs, turned on at the same time.
The coding allows it, but when you hook up both, oem amp and speakers to speaker-level outputs, the radio gets confused, and only produces sound of the speaker-level output for a second or so, before shutting it down.

Really????
Well that just blows my plan outta the water.








Is it possible to tap off the nav outputs going to the amp?


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*

It's not possible to tap into wires going to the oem amp, because the navi is only using two or three wires, I believe (probably using some sort of digital signal, spockcat posted diagrams and explanation at some point), then the oem amp decodes and splits up the signal.
What you can do is tap into speaker wires that come out of the oem amp.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*


_Quote, originally posted by *irom124* »_It's not possible to tap into wires going to the oem amp, because the navi is only using two or three wires, I believe (probably using some sort of digital signal, spockcat posted diagrams and explanation at some point), then the oem amp decodes and splits up the signal.
What you can do is tap into speaker wires that come out of the oem amp. 

Or completely abandon the two channel output and lousy rear amp in favor of the 4 channel output and a new aftermarket amp.


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Or completely abandon the two channel output and lousy rear amp in favor of the 4 channel output and a new aftermarket amp.

Yeah, thats what I'm leaning towards. Just gotta find a deal on a 4channel Apline amp
edit: talked to my "people" and they're shipping the 4 channel amp today with saturday delivery to the shop since I dropped the treg off 2 days ago for the sub install. Pics to come after I pick it up on Tuesday


_Modified by Nefarious1.8t at 11:40 AM 3-18-2005_


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*

You will have wiring considerations to contend with. In Sound I and Sound II equipped vehicles, the two channel output is wired all the way back to the amp, and the speaker wires for the 11 speakers run from there.
In the Premium VI, the speaker wires for the 10 speakers are run to the back of the head unit and are connected to the 4 channel output.
So, an aftermarket 4 channel amp would require either running another set of wires from the head unit to the rear amp location to feed four-channel to the new amp there, using existing speaker wires; or running all new speaker wires to a forward amp location and the four-channel wires from the HU to the same location.
Certainly not impossible, but not as easy as just swapping out the amp.


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*

So if I understand this correctly:
*Original*
0
0
0 - No TV tuner or Leveling display
5 - Can multi funtion steering wheel & CAN telephone control
0 - no passive loudspeakers
5 - no passive loudspeakers & Touareg/T5-Multivan (Rest of World)
5 - remote supplied antenna & CAN-secondary display
So what do I change to turn off the amp outputs from the nav and leave the standard outputs on?



_Modified by Nefarious1.8t at 11:51 AM 3-18-2005_


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_You will have wiring considerations to contend with. In Sound I and Sound II equipped vehicles, the two channel output is wired all the way back to the amp, and the speaker wires for the 11 speakers run from there.
In the Premium VI, the speaker wires for the 10 speakers are run to the back of the head unit and are connected to the 4 channel output.
So, an aftermarket 4 channel amp would require either running another set of wires from the head unit to the rear amp location to feed four-channel to the new amp there, using existing speaker wires; or running all new speaker wires to a forward amp location and the four-channel wires from the HU to the same location.
Certainly not impossible, but not as easy as just swapping out the amp.

This is the plan:
disable the factory amp outputs on the nav
enable the factory 4channel output on the nav
run RCA's from the line lever converters connected to the 4channel output of the nav to the sub/4channel amps in the rear.
Run speaker wire from the new 4 channel amp outputs to the factory amp and connect to the output of factory amp using the existing wireing from the factory amp to the speakers.


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## irom124 (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*

0023407 works for me, this would also enable your offroad level display, leave third digit "0" if don't want it. I have an aftermarket amp running off the speaker-level outputs in the back of the radio, and it's been working fine for a few months now without a problem.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nefarious1.8t* »_
This is the plan:
disable the factory amp outputs on the nav
enable the factory 4channel output on the nav
run RCA's from the line lever converters connected to the 4channel output of the nav to the sub/4channel amps in the rear.
Run speaker wire from the new 4 channel amp outputs to the factory amp and connect to the output of factory amp using the existing wireing from the factory amp to the speakers.

I think you may have a problem with this. The factory amp uses a DSP to convert its 2-channel input to the 11 speaker outputs. I beleive (but I'm not sure) that the amp input is a line-level input. When configured to use the amp, the head unit sends control signals to the amp via the CAN-BUS for balance, fade, volume, bass, etc.
I would strongly suspect that this canbus signal is not sent if the hu is configured for the four-channel output (since the HU's internal amp is being used for these functions). So, if you take a pair of outputs from your new 4-channel amp to feed the factory amp, there's no control of the factory amp for these features. And even if there were, the input of the factory amp will already have had these features controlled on the 4-channel output from the head unit that you are feeding (indirectly) into the factory amp.
Before you get too deep into this, I would suggest testing this by running a temporary pair of speaker wires from two of the channels of the 4-channel HU output back to the factory amp, and then coding the HU for 4 channel output. I'm guessing it will not work, but you'd be better off knowing this ahead of time.
(I just re-read your post, after posting this. If you mean you are bypassing the factory amp, and just routing the output of your new 4-channel amp to the existing speaker wiring, then ignore my ramblings here.)



_Modified by 4x4s at 3:39 PM 3-18-2005_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_
(I just re-read your post, after posting this. If you mean you are bypassing the factory amp, and just routing the output of your new 4-channel amp to the existing speaker wiring, then ignore my ramblings here.)
_Modified by 4x4s at 3:39 PM 3-18-2005_

That is the way I read it.


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_
(I just re-read your post, after posting this. If you mean you are bypassing the factory amp, and just routing the output of your new 4-channel amp to the existing speaker wiring, then ignore my ramblings here.)
_Modified by 4x4s at 3:39 PM 3-18-2005_

yup, thats exactly what I'm doing. Takeing the factory amp completely out of the equation.


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## miggy (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*

Pics of my stereo upgrade. My treg was in the shop for 31 days. My installer was very highly skilled (Warren is the man) and I wanted everything perfect. He commented that this vehicle is built very well but also that many of the parts are the same VW parts he has seen over the years. 
My requirements were simple: awesome sound, no permanent mods to the vehicle, system must come out and factory must go back in easily and must be mostly hidden.
All done at Tweeter in Dallas, TX. Sadly the installer was way to smart for the car audio business and moved away.
Alpine CD/MP3/XM
Alpine cd/mp3 changer
Alpine XM module
3 JL Audio AMPS (the Focals need a ton of power)
Focal spekaers (the best I have ever heard but they are not cheap)
Boston 10" Sub (the one I used only needs .5 cubic feet of enclosure).
Dynamat
monster cables and speaker wire
Custom fiberglass sub box
Customer made dash kit.
Let me know if you have any questions.

Note to all installers and customers- NEVER INSTALL THE SPEAKER CROSSOVERS IN THE DOORS ON ANY INSTALL (think "outside the box")! They will get wet and what happens if you want to adjust them or they break?
Try this instead:








































































SUB? What sub?









It comes apart:
















The 3 amps are in a rack that fits neatly under the spare tire.








AMPS? What amps?








Clean like I like it. 








the little knob in the dash is to control the subamp. I chose the location but now think it would have been better to hide it.










_Modified by miggy at 5:27 PM 3-19-2005_


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (miggy)*

Wow! Clean install...


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nefarious1.8t* »_So if I understand this correctly:
*Original*
0
0
0 - No TV tuner or Leveling display
5 - Can multi funtion steering wheel & CAN telephone control
0 - no passive loudspeakers
5 - no passive loudspeakers & Touareg/T5-Multivan (Rest of World)
5 - remote supplied antenna & CAN-secondary display
So what do I change to turn off the amp outputs from the nav and leave the standard outputs on?


0005055 was my original code in block 56. What do I need to change to turn off the preamp outputs and turn on the regular speaker level outputs?


_Modified by Nefarious1.8t at 6:46 AM 3-21-2005_


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## hotdaymnitzbao (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (miggy)*

sweet install. will the amp overheat from it hiding under the spare?


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## miggy (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (hotdaymnitzbao)*

They do not overheat. I was worried myself but they do just fine. Drove from Texas to Michingan non stop and they just keep on playing. I have had this system for about 8 months and no problems so far. Now if only VW built my treg as well I would be in business.


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (Nefarious1.8t)*



Nefarious1.8t said:


> 0005055 was my original code in block 56. What do I need to change to turn off the preamp outputs and turn on the regular speaker level outputs?
> 
> QUOTE]
> I figured it out.
> 00xx40x and the factory amp must be disconnected or the nav will ignore whatever code you input once it detects the amp.


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## fola (May 26, 2005)

*Re: (spockcat) NAV sound to external amp*

any new news on the NAV output?
I want to add an amp and speakers and cannot get sound out of the nav sys.


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (spockcat) NAV sound to external amp (fola)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fola* »_any new news on the NAV output?
I want to add an amp and speakers and cannot get sound out of the nav sys.

What have you tried so far?
If you are attempting to completely bypass the factory amp as I did then before you can enable the 4ch speaker level outputs of the nav unit you must disconnect the factory amp. The treg system does not care what numerical value you enter via VAG-COM; If it detects the factory amp it will override your settings and disable the speaker level outputs.


_Modified by Nefarious1.8t at 8:03 AM 7-13-2005_


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## sup44 (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (miggy)*

Very Nice and clean. I especially like the rear amp and sub placement ...


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## beerygaz (May 8, 2006)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (miggy)*

miggy - just got my T-Reg and am desperate to upgrade the sound. All you pics now seem to be broken links. Any chance you can send 'em to me or re-post?
Have things moved on since this thread was started? Anyone else got any further advice for a newbie?
Thanks.


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## beerygaz (May 8, 2006)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (beerygaz)*

I want to replace the head unit with an aftermarket one. As I can't generate a CAN-BUS signal to turn the OEM amp on (that originates from the OEM head unit) I'm going to have to bypass it.
Does anyone have the pinouts for the amp->speakers on the back of the OEM amp? IT will save me all the trial & error of finding which wire runs to which speaker.
Thanks.


_Modified by beerygaz at 5:07 AM 7-12-2006_


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## Mtornabene (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

offroad level display - sounds cool. what is it?


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## jgarzasosa (Jul 31, 2007)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (irom124)*

I can't see an pictures, I am planning on replaing everthing on my trg 08 since the sound system and head units suc, could you send me pictures to my email [email protected], thanks in advance


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## Qla (May 18, 2009)

*Re: Adding subwoofer to Nav/Audio system? (jgarzasosa)*

So if I get things right I cant get a line out from my Nav unit without the use of vagcom?
I dont have the oem amp, so the 10 speakers is driven by the internal amp wich sounds horrible.
I just bought the car and started to read this forum yesterday, so excuse me if im missing alot of info abut this in any atoher part in the forum.
My goal is to replace all the oem speakers and install a amp and sub.
But after reading this and some more threads i'm getting more and more confused about the audio system in the car.


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## Tahoe12 (Mar 22, 2005)

Photos wont load miggy







2005 I know, but still


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## Boulder T-Reg (Sep 14, 2011)

*Need Help!*

Hi guys,

I bought an '04 T-Reg V8 Nav, Air Suspension, Bi-Xenon, Parking Sensors, Upgraded sound etc...

I blew at least one of my speakers -the right rear tweeter (upper door speaker) is completely blown and has been for a year or so :banghead:. I like playing my music really loudly, and the volume is usually between 80-100%. I need to replace this damn speaker as it has gotten to be very noticeable and is embarrassing when I have people in the car. I'm a rookie, so a step-by-step and/or photos of how to do the job, along with links of where I can find the correct part(s) would be very helpful and much appreciated. I've tried everything and had no luck. I'm not looking to upgrade, as I feel the sound system quality in this car is amazing, and my friends and family who are connoisseurs agree that the quality is indeed superb.

Also, if anyone has experience with replacing an air suspension sensor (I'm getting the wretched 'Fault running gear workshop!' message in the MFI every time I drive somewhere), your insight would be much appreciated.

I don't feel like pouring money into this old tank at the stealership, but I'll gladly buy parts and put my personal time into it. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty, as long as I know what the eff I'm doing. The last thing I want is to screw something up even worse. Thanks for all your help!


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