# Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler!



## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

Here at FFE we have been actively pursuing this setup and have finalized a prototype for testing in the next 1-2 months.
This kit is 100% different in every single way from any other kit that was ever pictured, developed or used in the past.
We do not use toyota gears, force you to buy a new cylinder head casting, or modify yours to a point of no return.
Our kit also allows for a factory front oil cover, factory wet sump oiling and does not force you to covert to a dry sump system which would eliminate many from competition in street or wild street/outlaw style drag/road racing classes/series.
Our kit was meant to be mainstreamed and to be an easily installed without irreversible modifications to castings or the like..
This kit will utilize ANY set of off the shelf cams and any 1.8t cylinder head.








At this time this kit is developed for use with the 06a block found in all mk4 vehicles (058 b5 chassis cars, and 2.7T applications will come later)
This kit will come with: 
custom cam gears
adapter for intake cam to accept cam gear and eliminate factory cam sensor trigger wheel
aftermarket cam position sensor with jumper adapter harness for PnP installation
timing belt manual tensioner
timing belt 
modified metal impeller water pump 
crank cog 
crank snout extension 
super dampener
A provision for the accessories/tensioner spacer with serpentine belt 
ETC.
This kit bolts on, the gears are custom made and have the proper offset to eliminate the need for any cutting of the cylinder head.
Many of you may be confused as to the purpose of this conversion, but for those of you who are like us, you know exactly what this means for our platform.
The factory cam shafts in my opinion have no adjustability compared to other manufacturers. To make cam shaft adjustments you have to remove your timing belt, valve cover, cams and then by guess make adjustments to the internal cam gears buries on the back side of the motor. Not only is this time consuming, but annoying and unrealistic. And as many of you know the hardware for those gears are inadequate and either strip or fall apart causing catastrophic failure.
This will allow our motors to have full adjustment just like a honda or dsm/evo, etc. You will be able to dial in the cam gears with a degree wheel and setup your cams and make adjustments in minutes accurately, rather than hours crossing your fingers.
Pricing is not ready for release, but I felt we were at the point where it was time to start to release information as now is the time everyone is getting there cars ready for the next season.
If there are more people than I expect that are expressing interest and commitment to the kit, I have also discussed with Pete and Dave @ Integrated Engineering about the possibility of a completely custom forged crank that will have our proprietary bolt pattern modifications to eliminate the possibility of harmonics and its effect the hardware which fastens the flywheel.
If you have questions or are interested in a kit like this please contact me directly.
631 243 6333
[email protected]
Ed Woolsey
FFE


_Modified by [email protected] at 11:20 AM 2-4-2010_


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

THIS IS FUKN AMAZING!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
























































!!!


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected]d)*

neat yo pics?


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! (velocity196)*

The only pictures I have are on my cell phone, I will take pictures this coming week and post some up.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

Awesome idea.
I understad this is a "feeler" thread. But you have to take into consideration that 95% of the 1.8t owners do not need anything like this. Without posting a rough guestimate on a price how can you ensure the feedback from people is going to be legit ? People are going to say " ya i'm down " then when the price tag comes around your left with a stack pile of inventory. 
I'm sure you have a price range in mind, so if you could... please share that with us. I'm sure you'll have a lot more honesty from the people here that way.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! (16plus4v)*

If I had a price I would, the issue is that there are going to be options with the parts and the possible custom crank can be a large change in pricing.
The kit wont be 1000, but its not going to be outlandish either.
There will be options for modified crank for our extra bolts, welded trigger mods, and the like, so it really will come down to that, over the next week I will work on pricing for it all and add it all up.
I am putting the information out here now, so when I do produce pricing its something people have put thought in and are aware of.
Ed


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## corradogirlie (Jul 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i think they will know the serious enthusiast from the tire kicker....
so these gears then will be fully adjustable.... vernier style? CAT style?


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

They will have 5 bolts on the outside of the hub with machined slots on the cog portion of the gear, not vernier with a pin.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

I'm down
But I have a ABA/AEB so.....


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

I promise it wont be much longer, I am finalizing the 2.0FSI kit first as JC's car is at my shop and i'm pushing it in and out each day


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## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

Keep up the good work guys! Can't wait to see the final product.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! (TSTARKZ123)*

watching for pricing, pics, and options...


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*FV-QR*

I'm dying to see the JC setup. Nice work fellas.


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## zerb (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (screwball)*

wow. good stuff. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## baileysjetta (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (zerb)*

i will love throwing out that cam tensioner!!!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## smugfree3 (Feb 20, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (baileysjetta)*

im like the rest, waiting on pricing info. it would be nice if this was in the neighborhood of $500-1000. but im an aeb guy so ill prolly have to pay some sort of penalty








no matter what tho; given the results of bobq's cam dyno tests revealing that an aftermarket cam w/stock exhaust is the most cost effective in terms of desirable power curve, the saved money from only buying an intake cam could be very effectivley applied in the purchase of this kit. im gonna bet that buying an intake cam only with inconel exhaust valves, springs, and the money you would have spent on an exhaust cam and/or conventional cam gear applied to this conversion will be the most formidable head setup for the money.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

I get why this is important, and I am happy that twin-cam tuning will be possible, but at what point is the money ($1000+) and extra tuning effort worth it? I know there are only a few sets out there with little info, but this is something I'll consider for my 2.0/5557 if the data shows its not just for a race engine...looking forward to it FFE










_Modified by l88m22vette at 10:03 PM 12-20-2009_


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! (l88m22vette)*

This isnt for people who are running off the shelf chips, or gt30r's...
These setups are for people on self tuning or full standalone engine management systems, people who are making 6-7-8-900whp and want to have a race car.
We know real cam gears on my car would have picked up 100+ in the midrange and possibly been holding us back up top, too much over lap that couldnt be adjusted, a fresh healthy motor that had 1-2% leakdown but only compressed 130psi...
This isnt going to be close to 1000, i would say 2000 is going to be on the low side. I would honestly estimate $2500. But I wont be held to it.
Its going to come with all the cam conversion stuff, the belt, tensioner, crank cog, an ati or the like super dampener, and adapters for the serp belt setup.
Its also going to come with the option for a core exchange modified crank with out extra bolts and pin mod to keep the flywheel on.
If you want to go fast, and be on top its one thing that is keeping us 10 years behind the competition.


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

Definitly not in my price range but nce to see people taking the initiative to make products like this to advance the group. Keep up the good work.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*FV-QR*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
For the amount of parts you are getting the price is justified, soon I will have full parts list, pictures, and an msrp price, introductory sale, etc.
I dont expect these to be on every car, but on the real dedicated race cars its a nice feature to have. Should help develop the motor some.
And its not about the money or selling a million, if I wanted that id make a cold air intake and powercoat it camo like the normal trend







, its about supplying parts to create a solution, help evolve.


_Modified by [email protected] at 12:06 AM 12-21-2009_


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

That's cool Ed, I assumed it was race-oriented, just wanted more info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MAKK (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (l88m22vette)*

Ed,
Great to see someone do something despite of the $ it will cost. Kudos to you guys for taking that step. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
There will always be a few guys that just want the best, no matter what it costs, but this looks to be good for the 1.8/2.0T platform.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*FV-QR*

Upski


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (screwball)*

as I told you already...I'm down for the second stroker set up.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

hahaha AudiTToR, i love your sig..laughed for 10 mins here hahahaha, where did he blabber out that one? damn


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## EF9Si (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: (mescaline)*

I'm watching this... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_hahaha AudiTToR, i love your sig..laughed for 10 mins here hahahaha, where did he blabber out that one? damn


I believe it was black holed. Fortunately I was able to grab it in time HAHAHAHA


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## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif To FFE! 
I love FFE because they don't care about coilovers or bags (though they certainly will do them I'm sure). They care about advancing engine technology for VWs/the 1.8t platform. Efficicency will eventually bring power and soon we'll be competitive in the 4cyl classes.


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## 20thAEGti1009 (Jan 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

hey ed you know im definitely interested in this kit now since i was stuck at work for 58 hours this weekend


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## 50trim S (Jun 3, 2008)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_hahaha AudiTToR, i love your sig..laughed for 10 mins here hahahaha, where did he blabber out that one? damn

the funniest part is if you put everything in perspective its the truth


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

pics def watching this


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## krazy1.8 (Dec 22, 2009)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! (VRT)*

me likey


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## GLI_jetta (Jan 3, 2006)

awesome idea and props to you.. I'm gonna have to watch other guys put it on their cars... its a little to rich for my blood...


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

*Re: (04VDubGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *04VDubGLI* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif To FFE! 
I love FFE because they don't care about coilovers or bags (though they certainly will do them I'm sure). They care about advancing engine technology for VWs/the 1.8t platform. Efficicency will eventually bring power and soon we'll be competitive in the 4cyl classes.









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

watching


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## Caged_Bora_R1.8T (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

This is exactly what I was waiting for. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Draws me back toward getting an AEB head. Defenately watching this.
Woo Happy Holidayz everybody


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## ColoradoSoul03 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! (Caged_Bora_R1.8T)*

This is perfect timing for this, I think my cam chain tensioner is failing, so I would more than likely mod for this rather than changing the tensioner. I'd like to know pricing if this ends up in production.


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

added to my watched topics.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (boosted b5)*

Don't spend to much time working on my dual cam gear setup, my carbon fiber sunroof delete comes in today so you can get back on the cage.








FFE is really leading the way in custom parts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Don't spend to much time working on my dual cam gear setup, my carbon fiber sunroof delete comes in today so you can get back on the cage.








FFE is really leading the way in custom parts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Good to see someone is having ed do some REAL work








Can't wait to see how it looks!


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (themachasy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *themachasy* »_
Good to see someone is having ed do some REAL work








Can't wait to see how it looks!

You should see all the other stuff he is doing too, stuff their is only *1* fab shop i would ever trust doing to my car.


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
You should see all the other stuff he is doing too, stuff their is only *1* fab shop i would ever trust doing to my car.









Wish Ed were closer, he could learn me a few things about welding! Ed, whenever you're down I got a place in Miami for you to weld if it gets too cold up there.


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (themachasy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *themachasy* »_
Wish Ed were closer, he could learn me a few things about welding! Ed, whenever you're down I got a place in Miami for you to weld if it gets too cold up there.









haha maybe ed will take that offer, i know he's freezing his skinny ass off up here with all this damn snow.


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*

No way Ed would move to Miami. He loves shoveling snow too much.
Word on the street is that Ed is 3 inches away from breaking the December snowfall Record for LI. Its getting close....will he make it???


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## macosxuser (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (AudiTToR)*

I love it Ed, never would be able to justify the $$ for it unless I build a race car (not likely). Love it though.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*FV-QR*

Bump, hopefully the setup will be ready to drop on the new motor this week!


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## ColoradoSoul03 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Any word on production or pricing on this yet?


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## BillyBawb (May 29, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (ColoradoSoul03)*

Piiiiics - where are the piiiiics?


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## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

Ed, you are a sick, sick puppy









GREAT work!!


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*FV-QR*

Production pricing is not ready to be completely releasee as we are finalizing the aftermarket dampener now, and will have spacers for the accessory pullies.
But all I can say is that I had 5 sets of cam gears cnc'd last week


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Production pricing is not ready to be completely releasee as we are finalizing the aftermarket dampener now, and will have spacers for the accessory pullies.
But all I can say is that I had 5 sets of cam gears cnc'd last week 


sweet pics at all yet... this is gonna be a must here soon


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (weenerdog3443)*

haha I know you vw guys need pics or ban lol.
The pics will come shortly, the dampener is being finalized shortly.
I have alot of cool stuff on the up and up. But pics will be up soon, I promise.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to FFE for holding down the 1.8t game.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

im bumpin for pics


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
For the amount of parts you are getting the price is justified, soon I will have full parts list, pictures, and an msrp price, introductory sale, etc.
I dont expect these to be on every car, but on the real dedicated race cars its a nice feature to have. Should help develop the motor some.
And its not about the money or selling a million, if I wanted that id make a cold air intake and powercoat it camo like the normal trend







, its about supplying parts to create a solution, help evolve.

_Modified by [email protected] at 12:06 AM 12-21-2009_

This would be very helpful if you were running a stock exhaust cam with - say a 3652 intake cam, wouldn't it? Or am I off the mark here? By the way, has anyone tried that combination, I bet it would rock....


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## bam20v (Mar 8, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (gtimitch)*

wow super cool thread ffe rock keeping eye on this one


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

Mitch,
This kit is ideally for people who are setting up a competition motor or are looking to make changes with cams or experiment with cams.
We will be supplying these gear kit conversions to Integrated Engineering and Unitronic to aid in tuning, rapid adjustment and degreeing of internal cam sprockets prior to shipment etc. This will help dial in all cam sets with all files to help keep everything running to there fullest potential.


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## Chief Joseph (Aug 25, 2008)

*FV-QR*

would you be able to daily a car with this setup??


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Chief Joseph)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chief Joseph* »_would you be able to daily a car with this setup??

Do people daily drive honda dohc, mitsubishi dohc, toyota dohc motors every day








The hubs I made for these cam gears are far more reliable than every option on the market, more though fastener protection for alot of adjustment without stripping the hubs like you find on the cheaper cam gears.
They are way better than the cat cam gears pop in cheap cam keyway, our gears have fully threaded stainless steel keways that arent just little pieces of aluminum stock.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

So were are the pics then


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_So were are the pics then









The intake cam adapters are getting made in about 20 minutes.
There was a monkey wrench thrown at us the other day, the stock cams which we were using to make the intake adapter have a counter bore where the bolt to hold the factory trigger wheel is on the end of the cam.
Our adapter had a sleeve machined into it to press in for strength, but the cat cams blanks dont have that counterbore, so we had to design an entire new adapter.
I promise I will have completed pictures up by the end of this week.
I will also have pictures of the ferrea valvetrain I had made for me for use with single groove keepers and extra tip lenth for solid lifter cylinderhead use without the need for lash caps, grind to length valves.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The intake cam adapters are getting made in about 20 minutes.
There was a monkey wrench thrown at us the other day, the stock cams which we were using to make the intake adapter have a counter bore where the bolt to hold the factory trigger wheel is on the end of the cam.
Our adapter had a sleeve machined into it to press in for strength, but the cat cams blanks dont have that counterbore, so we had to design an entire new adapter.
I promise I will have completed pictures up by the end of this week.
I will also have pictures of the *ferrea valvetrain I had made for me for use with single groove keepers and extra tip lenth for solid lifter cylinderhead use without the need for lash caps, grind to length valves.*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

isnt that bad, i thought you had to go in every so many 25k miles or so and adjust lash? using valve stems would mean swapping out valves right?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (50trim S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *50trim S* »_
the funniest part is if you put everything in perspective its the truth

noooo the funny thing is on the tex it had nothing to do with your looks or color.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_isnt that bad, i thought you had to go in every so many 25k miles or so and adjust lash? using valve stems would mean swapping out valves right?

Not when the lash caps fall out every hit I made at the track.
Last season I had to take the entire engine apart after every god damn pass.
Lash caps, antilag/2step = epic fail.
You cant have a real car that makes power on lash caps. 2 step blows the valves open, caps fall off.
I do not forsee someone with a solid lifter head revving 10k rpm not checking the motor in a 20k mile interval anyways.
In my minds eye I would much rather buy new valves every two years for a few hundred bucks than have the valvetrain fall apart 10 times a year.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

ahhh ok


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## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

i would hope, if you're revving 10k with our heads, you'd be checking them at the end of the season, minimal. but you're right. you should worry about axles/gears breaking during runs, not your head.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (1.8t67)*

Right, Our standard procedure is every 2 events pull the pan, head, rods and pistons, inspect everything.
Every event transmission comes out and apart, clutch assembly comes apart and gets inspected. No questions.
Before we made our 11 bolt and pin crank ends we had lots of problems with arp bolts coming loose, even with loctite.


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## baileysjetta (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

You should make the lash caps longer to slip over the stem and give them a slight press fit to the valve stem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (baileysjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *baileysjetta* »_You should make the lash caps longer to slip over the stem and give them a slight press fit to the valve stem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

They do slip over the stem, they had loctite on them as well.
This is an issue that is no solveable. You can cut the valves, cut the buckets or use lash caps.
There are maufacturers like subaru I believe who have issues liek this with aggressive 2 step the knocks the valvetrain apart and drop valves.
Basically this is what you do if you have a serious cylinderhead.
Any and all recommendations were tested and are not suitable, this is the correct way to go about it.
We have in turn revved over 9k on a hydro head with no issue, so unless you want a serious competition motor, you dont need what I am having made, so it is for the select few who want to know what works and doesnt, I have *the* solution.
Just like people whos flywheels come loose or fall off, I have *the* solution. I 2-3-2 shifted the car with the arp flywheel bolts in the car, lifted the rear end off the ground and sheered the flywheel bolts and trigger wheel off.
New crank, 11 bigger bolts, a pin and welded trigger wheel, I 2-3-2'd it again to 12,200 rpm, put it in 4th gear and drive it back to the pits, kept racing, no issues at all. Pulled the trans and checked, nothing loose, damaged, no valvetrain touched, nothing.
What we do here works, its just difficult because you have clowns on here that will take a picture I post and copy it all for 20% less than I do, so thats why I dont post pictures of my bolt mods on the crank, modifications to the gear sets for shifting, valvtrain changes and all the new stuff I have made in terms of guides, valvetrain, this cam gear conversion etc, as well as little things like the the baffles in my catch cans.
Its horrible, but all people like to do is copy and undercut.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

http://www.uspto.gov/


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## baileysjetta (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*

Who is a clown? just made a suggestion? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Did you say Loctite on the lash cap!!!!!!!!!


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
We have in turn revved over 9k on a hydro head with no issue

You are not the only person Ed but Hydro lifters shouldn't be revved beyond 7200 rpm's as there is really no point compared to solid lifter.
Just a little food for thought.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (baileysjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *baileysjetta* »_Who is a clown? just made a suggestion? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Did you say Loctite on the lash cap!!!!!!!!!

don't take it personal i don't think he was talking about you. He was talking about company that copy another companies work and under cut their price because their is no R&D.


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## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_
You are not the only person Ed but Hydro lifters shouldn't be revved beyond 7200 rpm's as there is really no point compared to solid lifter.
Just a little food for thought.









huh?
i want to know more about this ellusive 11bolt crank set-up. i've done my fair share of r&d on these blocks, and you've got me scratching on this one.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (1.8t67)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8t67* »_
huh?
i want to know more about this ellusive 11bolt crank set-up. i've done my fair share of r&d on these blocks, and you've got me scratching on this one. 

I remachine the crank end from 6 M10x1.0 bolts to have 11 larger bolts and a pin.
-Ed


_Modified by [email protected] at 4:38 PM 1-19-2010_


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_
You are not the only person Ed but Hydro lifters shouldn't be revved beyond 7200 rpm's as there is really no point compared to solid lifter.
Just a little food for thought.









What does that mean there is no point? The lifter doesnt over pump or float. We have religiously taken hydro to 8800rpm no issues.
If you are making 6-7-800whp you need all the rpm you can get.
-Ed



_Modified by [email protected] at 4:38 PM 1-19-2010_


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (baileysjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *baileysjetta* »_Who is a clown? just made a suggestion? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Did you say Loctite on the lash cap!!!!!!!!!

Wasnt talking about you. 
Yes we use loctite to keep the lash caps in place.
-Ed


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I remachine the crank end from 6 M10x1.0 bolts to have 11 larger bolts and a pin.
-Ed


So pretty much just like Skoda motorsport considering there is no room for M8 or M7 bolts.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_What does that mean there is no point? The lifter doesnt over pump or float. We have religiously taken hydro to 8800rpm no issues.

Friendly advice, that is all.
If I had all the testing done I would have posted it up a year ago but I am not done what I need to do.
email me if you want.


----------



## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I remachine the crank end from 6 M10x1.0 bolts to have 11 larger bolts and a pin.
-Ed



holy schit. thats gotta look like a revolver at the flywheel. lol.
and i still don't get what issam is saying about revving the hydros out past 7200....hydros do fine up top. better than we all thought years ago. hell, i was revving to 8k on a stock small port in 2006. 


_Modified by 1.8t67 at 2:03 PM 1-19-2010_


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_
So pretty much just like Skoda motorsport considering there is no room for M8 or M7 bolts.


No not like that.. I have no idea what your talking about.
Post a picture so I can see what you mean.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8t67* »_
and i still don't get what issam is saying about revving the hydros out past 7200....hydros do fine up top. better than we all thought years ago. hell, i was revving to 8k on a stock small port in 2006. 


he is sayin there is still the possibility of float past that. I talked to Jarod @ SCCH and he said the same think 82 is the highest he would rev safely without worry on hydros and occasionally 8500-8700


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
he is sayin there is still the possibility of float past that. I talked to Jarod @ SCCH and he said the same think 82 is the highest he would rev safely without worry on hydros and occasionally 8500-8700


Who has proven it, 4 years ago it was 7200, then we took it to 8500 on my 30r. Then it was 8200, we took it to 9000 on frankies motor.
Then franks clutch blew up and it went to 9599rpm, fine.
Joel runs hydro and revs 85-8800 I beleive at least top end, I know they had turned it down because of harmonics and not having the fasteners on the flywheel, same problem we had.
Autoxtrem took there to 9700 they said all year, and they reported no issues.
I take stock motors to 8000 all day, no valvetrain, they are fine.
I see nothing wrong with 8500-8800 when racing on a built cylinderhead daily driven on hydro.
My motor (solid)
The first time I went 2-3-2 it went to 11,500, nothing bent, but I sheered the arp flywheel bolts clean off.
The second time over 12k, again, no bent valves, car came back and compressed 180 across the board with the same 2-3% leakdown as it had all year.
I think too many people are paranoid, I have never had a car float a valve or drop a valve and we push the crap out of some of these motors.
The guys who are saying 72 or 7800 rpm for hydro lifters are the same ones who are crapping themselves when they hear 40+psi of boost too and over 6 tho piston to cylinderwall clearance on a race motor. Its just under development and people being stuck in 2000 where 300whp was an act of god.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The guys who are saying 72 or 7800 rpm for hydro lifters are the same ones who are crapping themselves when they hear 40+psi of boost too and over 6 tho piston to cylinderwall clearance on a race motor. Its just under development and people being stuck in 2000 where 300whp was an act of god.

Yes that is exactly what it is.....








Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_
Yes that is exactly what it is.....








Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

And again, I wasnt talking about you.
But
Show me some proof otherwise.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

dude i wasnt knocking it either ed, its just what was told to me. i mean hell im running 26 psi ona 50trim stock block between valve cover and oil pan, 8k rpms. only thing to go was one 02j.
I think it just falls into the "safety" factor and not wanting responsibility. Just like in construction we use safety factors of 3,4, and 5 why just bc of that much head room. like the Yo-Yos (for fall protection that stop you falling) have a saftey factor of 5 they are rated at 300 lbs but a safety rating of 5 which means not only does it support snap strength of 4k lbs but in reality 20k


_Modified by theswoleguy at 7:34 PM 1-19-2010_


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

That analogy has me scratching my head...but oddly I hear what you are saying.


----------



## bam20v (Mar 8, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

hi all been watching this thread, like many others 
just want to get my 2 pence in (or cent) im from uk
i have read vortex for years and used its many wise posts/threads,members to help me build my engines and cars like many other forums
and so to my point.
it completely does my head in when market leaders go out of there way to build and prove new ways and technology for our engines, really at the end of the day to help further there business and own goals and help others get to what they want from there cars/engines !
and the joke of it is they share there knowledge with us and then get second guessed all the time 
definition of guessed To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information!!!

so fair play ed and steve and many others for groundbreaking stuff
and dont worry im not going to ask for a pic just to believe lol
and back to topic at hand
force fed 1.8t twin cam conversion kit *feeler*


----------



## purple-pill (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (bam20v)*

for those that do not know what this will look like here is a video with a vw 20 valve with a similar set up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYMEynee7M


_Modified by purple-pill at 9:17 PM 1-19-2010_


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*









Snip from Purple Pill's vid


----------



## corradogirlie (Jul 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

bigger pix.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (corradogirlie)*

uh, I think he's missing his cam belt covers


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_
You are not the only person Ed but Hydro lifters shouldn't be revved beyond 7200 rpm's as there is really no point compared to solid lifter.
Just a little food for thought.








 Im sorry Issam... But This is yet another retarded blanket statement; you really need to grow up and get over yourself.. And if you find it impossible to "grow" a bit of maturity.. Maybe you should just climb aboard a commercial jet, light your underwear on fire, and call it a day http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_ Im sorry Issam... But This is yet another retarded blanket statement; you really need to grow up and get over yourself.. And if you find it impossible to "grow" a bit of maturity.. Maybe you should just climb aboard a commercial jet, light your underwear on fire, and call it a day http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I am sorry you thought of that as a blanket statement but I did not think what I posted was immature and I recall talking with Ed. Testing "blanket statements" as you call them takes 2 things:
1. Time
2. Money
It does not happen over night and I always share what I know with the community when I get the chance.This will all be revealed in the remaining tests.
I can rev hydro lifters to 10,000 rpm's....does not mean I am actually doing anything by Revving them that high.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I can rev hydro lifters to 10,000 rpm's....does not mean I am actually doing anything by Revving them that high.
 Ok... you make no sense... On stock cams yes.. but i dont remember anyone specifying stock cams here.. And besides; even with an aggressive set of cams it has been proven safe to rev well above 7200 rpms. You have just totally contradicted yourself. 
Why dont you do what you do best, and re-name some more 034 parts as "INA" and post them for sale here


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

my limiter is at 7500, I take it there at least once a day. We'll see when it blows up.


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## crazyass713 (Dec 28, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I hold mine off the 7500rpm limiter every single day, stock springs/valves. Nothing new or dangerous about that rpm level.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

The valvetrain is not floating at 8500 with any of the cams on the market and the supertech springs. If there is aeration in the lifters, some lift may be missing in action, but that isn't causing anything catastrophic.
I still need to get some ferrea springs in here to check them out.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We'll see... 



_Modified by [email protected] at 10:43 PM 1-19-2010_


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## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

as mention our logs as shown 9700rpm peak and rev to 9400 every gear, no IE rod failure, no Cast crank Failure, No valvetrain issues. are we done with winter so we can smell rubber again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ..


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## R32dreamer17 (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: Force Fed Engineering 1.8T Twin Cam Gear Conversion Kit Feeler! ([email protected])*

interested


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*FV-QR*

Back on Track!


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (autoxtrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *autoxtrem* »_as mention our logs as shown 9700rpm peak and rev to 9400 every gear, no IE rod failure, no Cast crank Failure, No valvetrain issues. are we done with winter so we can smell rubber again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .. 

You guys should relocate







Lovely track weather here!
I'm all in for the double cam gear stuff 


_Modified by themachasy at 5:04 AM 1-20-2010_


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

damn this thing got ugly last night lets get it cak on topic with some pics


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## Mr.V-Dub (Jun 4, 2007)

Bumping For Some Awesome Info!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif To FFE!!!


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Intake cam adapters finished, 15 ready hot off the cnc.
These will be for use with cat cams.
I PROMISE to have pictures of the entire setup on a motor by weeks end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Intake cam adapters finished, 15 ready hot off the cnc.
These will be for use with cat cams.
I PROMISE to have pictures of the entire setup on a motor by weeks end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


if not im gonna come up to NY and hunt you down....jkjk cant wait ed..


----------



## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (dubinsincuwereindiapers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubinsincuwereindiapers* »_ Im sorry Issam... But This is yet another retarded blanket statement; you really need to grow up and get over yourself.. And if you find it impossible to "grow" a bit of maturity.. Maybe you should just climb aboard a commercial jet, light your underwear on fire, and call it a day http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Best quote EVAR!!!!


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Intake cam adapters finished, 15 ready hot off the cnc.
These will be for use with cat cams.
I PROMISE to have pictures of the entire setup on a motor by weeks end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Can't wait to see the pics!


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (carbide01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *carbide01* »_
Best quote EVAR!!!!









Biggest tool EVAR!!!


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The valvetrain is not floating at 8500 with any of the cams on the market and the supertech springs. If there is aeration in the lifters, some lift may be missing in action, but that isn't causing anything catastrophic.
I still need to get some ferrea springs in here to check them out. 

Quick question, not wanting to fuel this fure..








what grade and make of oil do you use on the high revving 20vt motors?
I know mine runs Motul 300v 15W50 oil since 2005, 8200rpm limit in circuit racing (20 minute quali, 15-20min race) and now push the motor to 9000rpm limit on dyno. Hydro, catcams, supertech full valvegear etc
I believe oil is key to the followers not frothing and pumping up remembering my old 16v days


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_
Biggest tool EVAR!!!


----------



## purple-pill (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Intake cam adapters finished, 15 ready hot off the cnc.
These will be for use with cat cams.
I PROMISE to have pictures of the entire setup on a motor by weeks end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Weeks End Bump!








It is Friday! Saturday is the start of a new week on my Calendar!


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (purple-pill)*

Who am I going to have to punch to get these pics


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

sounds interesting.....


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## Corrado1900T (Dec 2, 2002)

*Re: (carsluTT)*

This might be a dumb question but aren't there internal verniered cam gears like the ones for the 16V engines? I know they are a greater hassle to use, removing the valve cover for adjustments, but at $300 I think that buying a couple of valve cover gaskets would be more than worth it. I understand these are for the 8-900 hp range but if you are going that far what would be the purpose of not going to a dry sump system like most race cars. I'm not trying to be a dick I am just asking some legitimate questions about this system and it's cost. I know that they look really nice on all the Supra's and Skyline's but I would need some definitive answers to be able to justify spending $2200 more than the internal gears if they are available. If the gears aren't available sorry for my ignorance, I didn't have time to check before posting.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Corrado1900T)*

Yes there are internal adj gears but you need to remove the cams to make the adjustment every time you need to make a change. No fun. This will make things alot easier to adjust both cams. 
I have the internal and exhaust external adj cam gear. This will help me squeez the extra power out of the engine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (Corrado1900T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corrado1900T* »_This might be a dumb question but aren't there internal verniered cam gears like the ones for the 16V engines? I know they are a greater hassle to use, removing the valve cover for adjustments, but at $300 I think that buying a couple of valve cover gaskets would be more than worth it. I understand these are for the 8-900 hp range but if you are going that far what would be the purpose of not going to a dry sump system like most race cars. I'm not trying to be a dick I am just asking some legitimate questions about this system and it's cost. I know that they look really nice on all the Supra's and Skyline's but I would need some definitive answers to be able to justify spending $2200 more than the internal gears if they are available. If the gears aren't available sorry for my ignorance, I didn't have time to check before posting. 

Ok, so your on the dyno paying 100+ an hour, you have a tubular top mount turbo kit and you want to change the cam timing with no external gears.
You have to take the top chargepipe off, remove the coils, clock your compressor housing back or remove all the valve cover studs (good luck putting them back in and having the floppy vcg sit back in all the right spots, remove the timing belt, remove the valve cover etc.
Unbolt all the cam caps, unbolt the cam adjuster, remove the entire cam assembly.
You cant just loosen all the bolts, the head casting is in the way.
Then when you have your motor apart at this shop your paying again 
$100 an hour to jerk around with your non degreed or marked at all cam sprockets. You make an adjustment.
Now you have to clean the head off, put a new cam adjuster gasket on. Re assemble the cams/head.
Compress the timing belt tensioner, put the belt back on.
Hope and pray you didnt strip out or not tighten enough on the tiny little bolts holding the internal sprokets on. Guess your timing change will make a change worth a hell, and then when it doesnt, you can do it all over again.
Even if your change was bad, what point of origin or reference point to you have to base going back to the "way it was" unless you sit there and make obscure degree marks in the gears when you get the cams yourself.
Follow my lead? The stock system sucks, its meant to be cost effective, 1 gear, pressed internal sprokets, the inner adjustable gears are horrible, on the cats they fall off, ride the chain on the hub and need to be machined and are basically not adjustable, most people who set the cams up degree them in to again whatever they think is right an put a pin in them so that you cant move them
This will allow you to skip all the bs, loosen the bolts on both gears with an allen key turn the gears and tighten them back up. 2 minutes, no removing parts, clocking your compressor housing, removing the entire top end of the valve train, nothing, 10 bolts total and 2 minutes of your time.


_Modified by [email protected] at 12:22 PM 1-23-2010_


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*

And what does a dry sump have to do with anything?
If you have followed drag racing in the past 2 or so years you would know that the street class cars are going mid to high 8 seconds in the 1/4 are not allowed a dry sump so...
You have to have a wet sump.
This system was completely designed, engineered and developed for use in racing series or classes if there was some people who followed the rules, the evolution of the sport and wanted to attempt to be competitive.
These arent designed to be "pretty or cool" even though they are, this is the technical forum, not the mk4 forum...
Our motors are 5 years behind the times, this is a step in the right direction but I can't bang it into peoples heads enough.
Just like how I hear 10 times a year, or get calls from other shops "my flywheel rattled off". I have tried and true solutions to many of these problems that only a few people have even inquired about. This stubborness or thickheadedness doesnt happen in other manufacturers as much as it does in vw.
If you want to use the stock style adjustable gears after reading all the reasons I just posted not to, you will learn in time.
We dont just make stuff for the hell of it, like for instance the gm 034 coil packs, we do it to move forwards.
This is SO much better than your old options when talking about twin cam gears like many have posted pictures of, older setups like the ones everyone has seen require machining the head casting to clear the toyota style gears, only work on aeb style motors, require dry sumps etc.
This one saves you tons of time, money and allows you to race in sanctioned classes, you guys should be saying thank you, not talking crap.
Have you priced out a dry sump system? since you mentioned it. Maybe you should.
This kit will be all inclusive with an aftermarket dampener.



_Modified by [email protected] at 12:35 PM 1-23-2010_


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

*THANK YOU*


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: (VRT)*

Ed that is awesome stuff, just feel that 95% of people don't need the adjustment to the cams, ,i mean you did over 800whp Joel myself, Frankie and so many other are pushing 600-800whp with OEM stuff yes it was a pain to adjust, but to almost everyone it is not needed, only a handfull i see could benefit from this, can't wait to see it, i did not read everything but are you doing for cam sensor.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (autoxtrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *autoxtrem* »_Ed that is awesome stuff, just feel that 95% of people don't need the adjustment to the cams, ,i mean you did over 800whp Joel myself, Frankie and so many other are pushing 600-800whp with OEM stuff yes it was a pain to adjust, but to almost everyone it is not needed, only a handfull i see could benefit from this, can't wait to see it, i did not read everything but are you doing for cam sensor.

I have also admittied that not everyone will need this. That is why I only made enough for 5-10 kits.
I dont intend to or want to sell these mainstream. This kit is for guys like us, I have also developed an FSI setup only for [email protected]'s car.
I also posted that this kit will come with a hall sensor and an adapter harness to go from the factory style plug to the aftermarket sensor with a pickup in the cam gear.
-Ed


----------



## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

when you have everything figured out let me know the pricing might be down to try these.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

I am very interested in the twin cam gear setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Some questions:
1. Did the lash caps falling off the valve stems cause any internal damage/problems to your head?
2. Have you looked into using shims instead (like what the E46 M3 motors are using from the factory for their mechanical lifter setup)?
3. Wil this kit work for us longitudinal guys without any clearance issues? And, would/could the kit come with a timing belt cover?

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I remachine the crank end from 6 M10x1.0 bolts to have 11 larger bolts and a pin.

I am also interested in this process as well. I suppose for this though, I would order a clutch/flywheel kit from you guys as well so that it could be machined too?


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Chris164935)*

http://store.forcefedengineeri...t=195
crank options with new unit, or modification to your unit.
You dont need to buy a new clutch kit, but you have to send us your flywheel you are running or or planning to run.
Polishing/balancing is +150.


----------



## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Intake cam adapters finished, 15 ready hot off the cnc.
These will be for use with cat cams.
I PROMISE to have pictures of the entire setup on a motor by weeks end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (jwalker1.8)*

Sorry man, been swamped, ill try to get some pictures today








-Ed


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


----------



## Henni (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (VRT)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## V DUB'N (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_http://store.forcefedengineeri...t=195
crank options with new unit, or modification to your unit.
You dont need to buy a new clutch kit, but you have to send us your flywheel you are running or or planning to run.
Polishing/balancing is +150.

WOW extra bolts and a dowel?? You do know that one of the most powerfull 4 bangers in the world doesnt even have that? 
how many bolts exactly do you add? and did you ever thing that just a dowel would of helped?


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (V DUB'N)*

11 bigger bolts, 1 BIG dowel.
And it doesnt matter who has what, but that this works








-Ed


----------



## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (V DUB'N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V DUB’N* »_
WOW extra bolts and a dowel?? You do know that one of the most powerfull 4 bangers in the world doesnt even have that? 
how many bolts exactly do you add? and did you ever thing that just a dowel would of helped?



to tell you the truth, when people have sheared the 6 bolts holding the flywheel on now, a single dowel isn't going to do anything. not a thing. 
the problem with the vibrations is clamping force. obviously, the recently released dampners will help aid in vibrations for majority of the vehicles on this board, the other small percentage it won't. bob q has released a ekagrip friction shim which is installed between the crank spigot and the flywheel. this shim increases the friction to reduce the chances of the flywheel from slipping on the spigot. it does not increase clamping force.
this is where the extra step of machining come's into play, by adding 5 additional bolts. bolts have tensile strength, not shear strength. if the flywheel slips and puts force against the bolts, they're gonna shear. doesn't matter if your flywheel is pinned or not. do not confuse pinning a flywheel to pinning the t-belt cog on the front of the crank. different application/bolt placement/issues. i can only presume the pin on the flywheel is for fit-up purposes only. 


_Modified by 1.8t67 at 6:12 PM 1-29-2010_


----------



## V DUB'N (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (1.8t67)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8t67* »_
to tell you the truth, when people have sheared the 6 bolts holding the flywheel on now, a single dowel isn't going to do anything. not a thing. 

the problem with the vibrations is clamping force. obviously, the recently released dampners will help aid in vibrations for majority of the vehicles on this board, the other small percentage it won't. bob q has released a ekagrip friction shim which is installed between the crank spigot and the flywheel. this shim increases the friction to reduce the chances of the flywheel from slipping on the spigot. it does not increase clamping force.

this is where the extra step of machining come's into play, by adding 5 additional bolts. bolts have tensile strength, not shear strength. if the flywheel slips and puts force against the bolts, they're gonna shear. doesn't matter if your flywheel is pinned or not. do not confuse pinning a flywheel to pinning the t-belt cog on the front of the crank. different application/bolt placement/issues. i can only presume the pin on the flywheel is for fit-up purposes only. 

_Modified by 1.8t67 at 6:12 PM 1-29-2010_

I understand what you mean about the bolts backing off, but if the rotating assembly isn't balanced properly that's gonna happen.
And if you are missing gears and shearing the bolts off you have a bigger problem, that's the connection from the steering wheel to the pedals and no matter what you do to the crank nothing is gonna save your motor. 


_Modified by V DUB'N at 12:58 AM 1-31-2010_


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Intake cam adapters finished, 15 ready hot off the cnc.
These will be for use with cat cams.
I *PROMISE* to have pictures of the entire setup on a motor by weeks end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## porc933 (Jan 10, 2008)

This thread has so much WIN! Watching.


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (corradogirlie)*

cant wait to see some pics


_Modified by boost_addict at 1:52 PM 2-3-2010_


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## Hassenpfeffer (Dec 19, 2005)

Ed and Steve... these are awesome! I've seen the conversion Kit parts up close and all I saw was quality. Ed and Steve have been using this setup that they are now offering to us for some time now. And if it's good enough for ForceFed's 800+ whp golf then it's good enough for me! Great work on getting these out guys.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

Just 1 teaser pic for tonight.
The setup as it sits now, all pieces made, and aligned perfectly.
















-Ed


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## jwalker1.8 (Mar 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Gears look good but like you said, this is definitely not for everyone


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## bam20v (Mar 8, 2009)

that looks the bollocks as we say in the uk 
very very cool been watching this closely top respect guys !!!


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Shouldnt your tensioner be lower? Thats how the other shop in NY did it.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Thats how the other shop in NY did it


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (boost_addict)*

does it really matter the 16v tensioner is on the head. but that doesnt have twin exteranl cam gears.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Shouldnt your tensioner be lower?]

No issam, we shouldnt. And I dont care about what someone else did, they obviously missed the memo that 3 bolt cam gears are basically as reliable as the internal cam sprockets on our cams.
If you noticed, which is the entire premise for our kit, but I guess you missed that, that head is milled and pushes the front seal back, losing the oil pump drive gear requiring dry sump which is not allowed in racing series in the US. Which ours does not require.
Why would you put the tensioner lower, out of the factory position, those gears are smaller and have less tooth engagement than stock already. Moving the tensioner lower is dumb and also wouldnt allow us use with an off the shelf belt. Which this has.
And l88m22, are you laughing because issam asked a question that makes no sense or just find everything you dont know anything about funny?
-Ed



_Modified by [email protected] at 11:25 AM 2-4-2010_


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

that looks sick beats having the OE hyd tensioner.


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## V DUB'N (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
No issam, we shouldnt. And I dont care about what someone else did, *they obviously missed the memo that 3 bolt cam gears are basically as reliable as the internal cam sprockets on our cams*.
If you noticed, which is the entire premise for our kit, but I guess you missed that, that head is milled and pushes the front seal back, losing the oil pump drive gear requiring dry sump which is not allowed in racing series in the US. Which ours does not require.
Why would you put the tensioner lower, out of the factory position, those gears are smaller and have less tooth engagement than stock already. Moving the tensioner lower is dumb and also wouldnt allow us use with an off the shelf belt. Which this has.
And l88m22, are you laughing because issam asked a question that makes no sense or just find everything you dont know anything about funny?
-Ed

_Modified by [email protected] at 11:25 AM 2-4-2010_

Better foward that memo to hks.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (V DUB'N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V DUB’N* »_
Better foward that memo to hks. 

Many companies made them 3 bolt first and changed over to 5 bolt for a reason. I dont understand why everyone in my threads specifically act the way they do. 
-Ed
I sent you a pm.


_Modified by [email protected] at 11:47 AM 2-4-2010_


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (V DUB'N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V DUB’N* »_
Better foward that memo to hks. 

most companies have moved over to 5-6bolt cam gears, just fyi.


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## V DUB'N (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Many companies made them 3 bolt first and changed over to 5 bolt for a reason. I dont understand why everyone in my threads specifically act the way they do. 
-Ed
I sent you a pm.

_Modified by [email protected] at 11:47 AM 2-4-2010_

pm replied


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Many companies made them 3 bolt first and changed over to 5 bolt for a reason. I dont understand why everyone in my threads specifically act the way they do. 


what comes around goes around?


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
what comes around goes around?









Please, do explain.


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

ed is there a final parts list/price?


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## NORSK (Feb 26, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Not when the lash caps fall out every hit I made at the track.
Last season I had to take the entire engine apart after every god damn pass.
Lash caps, antilag/2step = epic fail.
You cant have a real car that makes power on lash caps. 2 step blows the valves open, caps fall off.
I do not forsee someone with a solid lifter head revving 10k rpm not checking the motor in a 20k mile interval anyways.
In my minds eye I would much rather buy new valves every two years for a few hundred bucks than have the valvetrain fall apart 10 times a year.

Ed
The issue with these lash caps is fixed.
I made up an "upside down" cap that goes over the pin inside the lifter.
It goes 5mm over the pin.
It can be loctited with some "light duty loctite" for easy removal.
The lifter won't get anywhere near as hot as the valve stem,so the loctite holds up well.
The "normal" type lash caps are mostly used on normally aspirated race engines,and they work just fine on these.
Even on 11500rpm short stroke engines.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_
*most *companies have moved over to 5-6bolt cam gears, just fyi.

Google search for "HKS Cam gear failure"
results = 0

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_And I dont care about what someone else did, they obviously missed the memo that 3 bolt cam gears are basically as reliable as the internal cam sprockets on our cams.

You are right, you should not care what someone else did.I am going to adopt this attitude as well.









_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
If you noticed, which is the entire premise for our kit, but I guess you missed that, *that head is milled and pushes the front seal back*, losing the oil pump drive gear requiring dry sump which is not allowed in racing series in the US. Which ours does not require.

So pretty much like my kit you asked me about in 2006
And back to my original point on Page 3 before the posts got deleted.A twin cam gear kit does not just fall out of the sky.....
For the record I have no problems with you doing whatever you want to do over at Forcefed.I wish you best of luck with this project.
Carry on...


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Google search for "HKS Cam gear failure"
results = 0 

since you said 0, guess I should bring this up.








http://www.supraforums.com/for...24084
it has been fixed, but the gear used to shear at the belt because the aluminum was soft. it's been replaced with some harder material now, "Duraluminum".
and yes, Issam, I know the topic at hand was 3bolt vs. 5bolt/6bolt, but







you said no failures.


_Modified by One Gray GLI at 1:07 PM 2-4-2010_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (One Gray GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_
and yes, Issam, I know the topic at hand was *3bolt vs. 5bolt/6bolt*, but







you said no failures.

Once you know







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and the word you are looking for is duraluminum.


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

went back and fixed it. haha
bleh, it's just two different ways to go at it, honestly.. for example, would you rather have 3 lugs holding a wheel on or 5?


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

wow this is getting heated bout time for the mods to come http://****************.com/default/zero2/lock5.gif


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (NORSK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NORSK* »_
Ed
The issue with these lash caps is fixed.
I made up an "upside down" cap that goes over the pin inside the lifter.
It goes 5mm over the pin.
It can be loctited with some "light duty loctite" for easy removal.
The lifter won't get anywhere near as hot as the valve stem,so the loctite holds up well.
The "normal" type lash caps are mostly used on normally aspirated race engines,and they work just fine on these.
Even on 11500rpm short stroke engines.

Thats good to know, now my question for you is this.
How does it work with antilag/2step with timing pull and boost off the line. Not the soft rev limiter type, but ignition cut, big aggressive launches.
Have any of the cars using this ever experienced more backpressure than boost pressure in high power situations?
We know that our seat pressure on the head we no longer use from this past season without shims because of the bad valve job was being exceeded by back pressure and blowing the exhaust valves open and allowing the lifter buckets to be hit violently by the cams popping them loose.
This would be a great alternative, we just really prefer with our car at this point to not use any lash caps because of the extreme duty we put it through, please email me with other information about this as I am interested in an alternative.


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
No issam, we shouldnt. And I dont care about what someone else did, they obviously missed the memo that 3 bolt cam gears are basically as reliable as the internal cam sprockets on our cams.
If you noticed, which is the entire premise for our kit, but I guess you missed that, that head is milled and pushes the front seal back, losing the oil pump drive gear requiring dry sump which is not allowed in racing series in the US. Which ours does not require.
Why would you put the tensioner lower, out of the factory position, *those gears are smaller and have less tooth engagement than stock already*. Moving the tensioner lower is dumb and also wouldnt allow us use with an off the shelf belt. Which this has.
And l88m22, are you laughing because issam asked a question that makes no sense or just find everything you dont know anything about funny?
-Ed

_Modified by [email protected] at 11:25 AM 2-4-2010_

Exactly which is why I don’t understand why you are using such small cam gears when you could fit bigger ones (maybe up to 128mm in diameter) and have better tooth engagement
Also the water pomp doesn’t look as if it has the timing belt wrapped around sufficiently for the same reason stated above
I don’t think lowering the pulley will help I think maybe adding another one like VWMS did in their original design(that everyone is copying at the end of it ) is the solution
Also I don’t understand why pushing the main seal back is a necessity VWMS did not do this and I’m sure they didn’t have the head milled head either


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Google search for "HKS Cam gear failure"
results = 0

dont care, its not just about the gear failing but the bolts being insufficient when adjusting. Most people notice when they strip one of those bolts out and are bright enough to not try and run there motor, just buy a new set of gears. HKS isnt the end all be all of aftermarket performance products.


_Quote »_
You are right, you should not care what someone else did.I am going to adopt this attitude as well.









Great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote »_
So pretty much like my kit you asked me about in 2006
And back to my original point on Page 3 before the posts got deleted.A twin cam gear kit does not just fall out of the sky.....
For the record I have no problems with you doing whatever you want to do over at Forcefed.I wish you best of luck with this project.
Carry on...










And still to this day you have no "kit" and if you did have a "kit" like the one you pictured from 15 years ago that was built for a customer in jamaca by my machinist (a picture which you took from vwsport years ago) I couldnt use it nor would I use it because it requires a dry sump which is NOT LEGAL FOR COMPETITION and the one I made is suited for what anyone in this country is trying to accomplish


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (talx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *talx* »_
Exactly which is why I don’t understand why you are using such small cam gears when you could fit bigger ones (maybe up to 128mm in diameter) and have better tooth engagement
Also the water pomp doesn’t look as if it has the timing belt wrapped around sufficiently for the same reason stated above
I don’t think lowering the pulley will help I think maybe adding another one like VWMS did in their original design(that everyone is copying at the end of it ) is the solution
Also I don’t understand why pushing the main seal back is a necessity VWMS did not do this and I’m sure they didn’t have the head milled head either


These gears work great on hondas (which they are) making over 1500whp and will work flawlessly on our motors http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
The reason why I like these gears vs other is because the crank cog/waterpump/cam gear pairs work very well on our motors and are the most suited for our application and its ability to be run on a street car.
Other alternatives are not as fit for the application in which we designed our kit.
And this thread doenst need to be locked, just some stuff cleaned up and people to just stop arguing about moot points and things that dont have a place in this thread for arguing.



_Modified by [email protected] at 1:48 PM 2-4-2010_


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## NORSK (Feb 26, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Thats good to know, now my question for you is this.
How does it work with antilag/2step with timing pull and boost off the line. Not the soft rev limiter type, but ignition cut, big aggressive launches.
Have any of the cars using this ever experienced more backpressure than boost pressure in high power situations?
We know that our seat pressure on the head we no longer use from this past season without shims because of the bad valve job was being exceeded by back pressure and blowing the exhaust valves open and allowing the lifter buckets to be hit violently by the cams popping them loose.
This would be a great alternative, we just really prefer with our car at this point to not use any lash caps because of the extreme duty we put it through, please email me with other information about this as I am interested in an alternative.

Ed
I might as well answer your question here.
This solution has been used in 1.8t's with response systems.
They did not run with that much hp as you guys do though.
But i assume they had quite a bit of backpressure.
"upside down" lash caps has been used on 5cyl 20v Turbo engines for many years.
And it works fine even with quite low seat pressures (around 35-40kg)
This is engines that make above 800 crank hp and sometimes alot of backpressure.
I guess the real bullet proof solution for you guys,is to make up MUCH longer valves (atleast 10mm longer) and install the retainer that much higher.
So it is possible to find springs with a decent seat pressure to fit in there.
It will require using a lifter without pin and no lash caps ofcourse.
But honestly,if a lash cap which is installed 5mm over the pin is falling of...........
Then there is a real need for a custom spring upgrade with a much higher rate currently offered today.


_Modified by NORSK at 8:04 PM 2-4-2010_


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## Caged_Bora_R1.8T (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

The kit lookz awesome! 
Is there going to be any love for ALH/20v hybridz or no?


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*FV-QR*

official pricing?


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: (Caged_Bora_R1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Caged_Bora_R1.8T* »_The kit lookz awesome! 
Is there going to be any love for ALH/20v hybridz or no?

The only issue will be belt length, i'll look into it.


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## Mike Pauciullo (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*

looks good ed



_Modified by Mike Pauciullo at 4:33 PM 2-4-2010_


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## Caged_Bora_R1.8T (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The only issue will be belt length, i'll look into it.

Sweet.
Defenately looks worth every penny (once pricing comes out) 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (Caged_Bora_R1.8T)*

Any updates on this? Are any kits available yet?


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## V DUB'N (Dec 12, 2002)

what ever happened with this??


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## Mike Pauciullo (Jan 8, 2009)

ed post some pictures up.


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

so is this dead or what


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Lash caps only come off / get smashed / broken when you are floating valves. Eliminate those, and don't fix the float- something else will just break next.


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## turbo-y-zel (Dec 29, 2007)

very nice ed way to push the envelope :thumbup:


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## janperformance (Apr 24, 2009)

For all of you guys that justify eds work,try by your self and discover how
hard is done,buy to honda b16 cam gears and begin to work


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## 20thAEGti1009 (Jan 28, 2005)

Happy that I have one of these twin cam gear kits setup on my engine!!


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

pics or i call bul ****!


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## 20thAEGti1009 (Jan 28, 2005)

If I had the engine I would. The engine along with the rest of the car is in new York being built. But I assure you as soon as the engine is together I will take some pics.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

*FV-QR*

Stumbled upon this thread. I guess this kit never got off the ground 'eh. Shame, it looks awesome.


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

They can still do it, but I believe you have to send your head to them and it is not cheap.  They have to re-machine the intake side cam to accept the other cam gear and some other stuff that I do not know much about. haha..


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

*FV-QR*

If they only have to re-machine the intake cam why send in your whole head? why not JUST the cam?


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

There is more to it then that, I believe. I talked to JC over at Douglas VW about it a while back, but I do not remember all of the particulars. All i remember was that it is expensive as heck!!!!!!!! lol If I am not mistaken between 2-3k.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Beat the Heat said:


> There is more to it then that, I believe. I talked to JC over at Douglas VW about it a while back, but I do not remember all of the particulars. All i remember was that it is expensive as heck!!!!!!!! lol If I am not mistaken between 2-3k.


 $2-$3K No way it costs that much. Really?


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

Everything they make is for their race cars. Meaning its custom, not very many made at a time and expensive but well worth it. Ed is an amazing machinist and all his parts are top notch. I am using a few goodies of his. Well worth every penny. This IS on my to do list in the future


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Looks awesome - would love to see results/testing and some more pics!


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

Talk to JC from Douglas Parts. I am sure he has some laying around.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

*FV-QR*

Any more info on Douglas Parts? I just googled it and all kinds of stuff came up, but nothing VW wise.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> Any more info on Douglas Parts? I just googled it and all kinds of stuff came up, but nothing VW wise.


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5935048-MK5-1.8T-SFWD-build :thumbup:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

All_Euro said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5935048-MK5-1.8T-SFWD-build :thumbup:


:thumbup: Thanks.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

We decided to keep this for in house race cars only. We actually would need a complete long block when we do these as after we degree in the cams we make new timing marks to match the twin cam gear conversion since the factory timing marks would now be no good to you. 

Regardless it is an in house sort of thing now, to many companies trying to reverse engineer this, our mini motor plates and some other items we make.


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## jasenhenry619 (Aug 23, 2006)

*Jc""" some help*

What springs , Valvetrain cams solid lifters ECt. Would you you put on your in house race car? Head aeb super tech valve 1ml over have set springs ret too supertech but from 2009 never use.some said they have new drag racing ones.?cat 3651. Re deg.by int eng cams blew first big build up. Saw your car and some pics to very nice work!! Jc'!!!


Some help!!, please I want a drag race head that will get some passes down the track


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

jasenhenry619 said:


> What springs , Valvetrain cams solid lifters ECt. Would you you put on your in house race car? Head aeb super tech valve 1ml over have set springs ret too supertech but from 2009 never use.some said they have new drag racing ones.?cat 3651. Re deg.by int eng cams blew first big build up. Saw your car and some pics to very nice work!! Jc'!!!
> 
> 
> Some help!!, please I want a drag race head that will get some passes down the track


Cams and lifters are up to the customer. I have IE cams with solid lifter, Ed has Cat cams with solid lifter and Jamies motor has Cat cams with hydro lifter.

We only use Ferrea valvetrain, hydro lifter heads get off the shelf Ferrea parts and solid lifter heads get custom made for us Ferrea parts.


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## jasenhenry619 (Aug 23, 2006)

Thanks for the information! I've had last too heads drop valves. On next build now solid lifters a must for the rpm and power I'm looking for750 800!ish wheel . Last motor 501 wph @38 psi 1.8t rods piston aftermarket stock aeb cat cams 3651 halteck 6266 precsion 7.0 1/8 [email protected] before blew up!!


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## jasenhenry619 (Aug 23, 2006)

*Jc"*

Thanks for the information! I've had last too heads drop valves. On next build now solid lifters a must for the rpm and power I'm looking for750 800!ish wheel . Last motor 501 wph @38 psi 1.8t rods piston aftermarket stock aeb cat cams 3651 halteck 6266 precsion 7.0 1/8 [email protected] before blew up!!


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

jasenhenry619 said:


> Thanks for the information! I've had last too heads drop valves. On next build now solid lifters a must for the rpm and power I'm looking for750 800!ish wheel . Last motor 501 wph @38 psi 1.8t rods piston aftermarket stock aeb cat cams 3651 halteck 6266 precsion 7.0 1/8 [email protected] before blew up!!


If you want one of our complete race long block shoot me an email. [email protected]


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## Jim_Coupe (Nov 27, 2010)

I found this


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