# Fsi clicking, ticking louder than normal



## drewgli (Jul 31, 2009)

Mk5 fsi Is still clicking....I've recently done the timing belt, tensioner and water pump. The other day I replaced the n80 valve and cam follower. My fsi continues to click and increases with rpms . The oil level is good, and the car has no check engine light. Any insight on what it might be? The car doesn't drive weird and turbo is boosting strong. I've attached a quick video clip. https://vimeo.com/146081299
https://vimeo.com/146081465


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Disclaimer: I was listening to your video with really crappy headphones so I could have easily missed some detail that would make me say otherwise but... Could be lifter tick. These engines have noisy lifters and to my knowledge, which is only moderate, it is normal for them (within reason of course). When did this start happening, did it coincide with anything noteworthy? What kind of oil are you using? When was it last changed? How many miles on car?


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## drewgli (Jul 31, 2009)

It's been happening since before I got the car. The previous owner didn't know either. Currently using castrol 5w-40 full synthetic, and it was just changed . It's got high mileage 135k but like I said no check engine light or driving issues. The noise is just concerning ya know lol.. Thanks for your response! 


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Oh I definitely hear ya. I am a freak about being aware of everything with my car and listen to it all the time so I understand the concern. I drive without music a lot for that purpose, even though I love music haha. Some others may come on here and disagree with me at some point (like I said I'm not an expert) but if you want my opinion, I wouldn't sweat it. Yes, it is idling louder than mine (same engine) but the difference between them is really just a matter of volume, otherwise I hear all the same tones and sounds on yours that I hear on mine and don't really hear any that aren't there on mine, as best as I can tell from the video. Add to that the fact that your car has 65K more miles than mine and that I have deleted my engine cover which probably just makes sound resonate (no sound damping material, just plastic) and that probably explains the difference in volume. Btw, was the vid taken when car was at operating temp or not? That'll make a dif in volume since the car idles at generally around 1000-1100 rpms briefly and then (at least with mine) revs down to 800rpm when at a warmed up idle. What rpms does your settle at?

Rest easy knowing that you've replaced some key compnents. That cam follower was a good move. I woulda asked you about that if you hadn't mentioned you already did it. Common source of ticking when warn. You're using good oil, I assume it is German Castrol since it is full-synthetic. That is good ****. Of the readily available ones, and based on my extensive reading, I'd prefer Mobil 1 0W-40 over Castrol but I recently just started hsing Liquimoly Lauchleif (sp?), figured I'd go all the way. Not like Castrol is bad so I'm not saying the oil you are using is the problem. I would recommend trying different oils though to see if that changes the idle a bit. If it is just noisy or sticky lifters (as I suspect given the increase with rpms and commoness in the FSI) the oil may very well make a difference in just how much you hear it. 

Again, I think you can probably rest easy. Just monitor it but don't sweat it. If you have vag-com or have the money to get it (highly recommended) then you could read up on data logging and do some logging to see how everything looks just, see if your car is running and performing how it should. Might give you some peace of mind, ideally.

If you have any other questions about anything else feel free to PM me. I'm always happy to share what I know and help people out. Good luck

P.S. If I was you I would get a catch can asap, not for the arguable benefits that the catch can has in performing its job, but for the fact that it also reroutes the PCV system and deletes the factory PCV valve which is a massive liability on these cars. It's usually only a matter of time before it fails at that high milesge unless you're lucky. When it fails, depending on how it fails you'll know it: vacuum leak, rough idle, possibly misfires, CEL, etc. Impact can be mild or can be as major as causing overpressure in crank and leading separated or blown rear main seal (between engine and trans) which means big oil leak. You don't want any of that. 

Another common failure on FSI is the AC compressor. If it ****s the bed it often spews pieces throughout the AC system requiring full replacement and a thorough flush. Imagine that bill. Other than replacing the compressor preventstively though I'm not aware of anything else that can be done to prevent it so you gotta cross your fingers it doesn't happen and let your AC spin down before you shut off the car, which may or may not really change anything but it can't hurt. Also, check the manufacturer of the compressor (sticker on outside of compressor, easy to spot under car on passenger side linked to the lower pulley on the serpentine belt). Sanden is supposedly the better one. So cross your fingers for Sanden on that sticker.


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## drewgli (Jul 31, 2009)

The pcv valve was recalled and replaced about 30k ago, but yeah I'll more than likely just get me a catch can . I'm gonna try switching oil and probably go with 10w-40. As for the AC, so far so good. I'll check the the label today though. I do have have vag-com just haven't really messed with it too much other than turning off DRL. Do you know the thickest weight oil I can run on this fsi? 


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## Fogcat (Apr 29, 2015)

I did some you tube surfing and found that FSI engines sound like this. The direct injection makes a distinctive sound. I also listened to other engines and compared. Some seem louder than others but all of them had the same sound as the video. Am I missing something that I cannot hear in this? I understand the trepidation but I cannot find a problem from these videos. Hope all IS well. FYI: I am NOT an expert
I bow to those who are.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

> The pcv valve was recalled and replaced about 30k ago, but yeah I'll more than likely just get me a catch can . I'm gonna try switching oil and probably go with 10w-40. As for the AC, so far so good. I'll check the the label today though. I do have have vag-com just haven't really messed with it too much other than turning off DRL. Do you know the thickest weight oil I can run on this fsi?


I haven't really dabbled in oils that are outside the VW 502.00 spec for my vehicle, nor researched the subject so I can't tell you with any degree of certainty. Even though the M1 0W-40 isn't the recommended 5W-40 it is supposedly pretty close to 5W-40 and does bear the VW 502.00 approval, but it is the only non-5W40 I know of that meets the VW spec. As for using 10W-40, I don't know of any 10W-40 oils that meet the VW spec and I have never seen any of the oil guru materials I have read recommending any 10W-40 for any VWs made in the last decade or more. I don't think it would be likely to cause any serious problems, at least not if you use it for one OCI as a sort of test for the lifter tick, but I really wouldn't recommend it either way. That's because, like I was saying before and like Fogcat said, it doesn't sound like there are any standout differences in the noise your car is making and the noise that other FSI engines normally make. The only difference is the variance in volume but the fact is that some engines are just quieter than others and some are louder than others based on tonnes of different factors. Your car is pretty well into it's middle-aged stage (in my opinion) and at that point it doesn't surprise me that it is a bit louder than a younger FSI but I hear nothing besides the greater volume to be concerned about, so for that reason I wouldn't start experimenting with "unapproved" oils if I was you. There is the small chance you could cause another issue over nothing.

That's my .02


Edit: Regarding the catch can, if you get one be conscious of the climate you live in and how cold it gets in winter where you live. In winter there will be a lot more condensation building up in your catch can and it will fill a lot faster. It would still take very cold temps to freeze a water/fuel/oil mixture but you still don't want to take the chance. Generally if you just drain it often and don't let it fill up much in winter you should avoid issues in the catch can itself unless you live in an extremely cold area in Winter. To that end, to make the draining process quicker than unbolting the drain bolt on my can, I re-purposed a motorcycle fuel petcock as a drain valve that goes in right where the drain bolt used to be. All I gotta do is turn a little lever and it drains. Some people drain there can through a line that goes to the ground but I didn't want that mess so I just keep a small water bottle in my car and drain frequently in the Winter. The only other issue people sometimes have is condensation accumulating in the catch can hoses and freezing while the car is off overnight. This will only happen if your lines are horizontal. Even then, I personally doubt that enough condensation could form in there while the car is off to be an issue of freezing but just in case I wrapped my hoses in a thick, black insulation tape. No freezing so far.

Whether you have to do any of that is very debatable. I have a friend who lives in CT where it gets pretty damn cold and snowy and he never did any of this custom **** I did and he still didn't have any issues. I just like to be extra safe.


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## iqoair (May 30, 2015)

Sounds like noisy lifters....


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## drewgli (Jul 31, 2009)

So I ended up changing the oil weight to 10w-40 and it kinda got quieter but not really. I'm wondering, do you think the carbon build up could be causing the valves to stick and make that clicking noise?


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

It's certainly a possibility and even if it isn't you'll still enjoy a couple other benefits of getting the valves cleaned if they haven't been yet in 135K (better cold starts, better fuel economy, and possibly even a bit more power), so if you have the money I'd say shop around and see if there is a shop that'll do it for a fair price. Don't take it to the dealer. I guarantee you that it'll be at least an $800 bill because they will capitalize on the labor time involved in taking apart the intake manifold. There are basically two ways to get the valves cleaned: manual cleaning and blasting. Manual cleaning is most thorough but takes the longest so it generally costs more labor. The blasting methods vary themselves, I think the most common and cheapest is the BG machine method but I don't think that works too well thoroughly especially if you have 135k miles of buildup. I could be wrong though. There are various other blasting methods, one of the more interesting I've heard of is walnut shell blasting. It's basically like sandblasting but not dangerous. It might make a mess in the engine bay but they should clean it up and it supposedly takes the buildup off very well. I don't think there are too many places that do that though. I only know of one near where I am from near Philly.

I suppose you could always try to tackle it yourself if you like working on your car but it's a huge PITA so unless you are really comfortable with it I wouldn't do it. Also things could go wrong and you could wind up spending a chunk of change anyway. For example you could get the intake manifold off and go to pull the injectors and one or more may be stuck in their really good, requiring the purchase of an expensive puller device designed for yanking injectors but not harming them. There are a bunch of other nuances to the job to so only go for it if you really, really, want a challenge. If you do decide to, I have a ton of DIY materials on it.


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## drewgli (Jul 31, 2009)

Is there anyway to clean the carbon build up without removing the Intake manifold? I've seen mixed reviews about Sea foam so I'm curious about that. Also what's a fair price if I had it done at a shop (not the dealer).


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Ask different people about using Seafoam and you'll get different answers. Some people say it doesn't work at all, some peoples say it works great. I fall in the middle. There is a fellow who has a YouTube channel (can't remember the name) and he tested (with recordings from his borescope) the difference of efficiency of Seafoam and a whole bunch of other similar products (e.g. Techron, Marvel Mystery Oil, etc.) and the Seafoam came out on top, but the results were still not really anything to write home about. I use it more as a preventative measure to keep the buildup at bay AFTER a good thorough manual clean. I do not believe that it will make a very significant difference at all in the amount of buildup that a car with 135K on it will have. I think it would be best for you to get the manual cleaning or blasting done. As for the price I really couldn't tell you. I think the BG machine is the cheapest. Runs $200-$300 last I looked and they don't take the whole manifold apart obviously. I am skeptical of how well that works but I honestly don't remember exactly what their method is so I can't really back that up. I am just of the mind that the proper way to do it is a good manual cleaning (especially at your mileage) if you plan to keep the car awhile longer.

You can run Seafoam through the fuel and oil but that won't do much. If you do run any through the oil don't use more than is recommended or it will thin your oil out a lot, and only do it about 50-100 miles before your next oil change. The idea is to get it to run through for a bit and then get it out of there! The only way to (maybe) help your valves is to induct it through the manifold which is very easy. You just take out the Air Intake Temp sensor, stick a length of 1/4 hose in there with a basketball needle in the other end. Get a friend to hold that needle in a cup of Seafoam (they usually say about a 1/3 to 1/2 of the Seafoam bottle) and then you start the car and immediately get on the gas and rev so the car won't stall out. The car will smoke like crazy from the exhaust for awhile. You need to then go on a nice spirited drive to purge the system. Never had this happen but there is slight risk of hydrolocking your car so read up first and don't come back to me if something goes wrong haha. You've been warned.


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## punkstarkitch (Nov 20, 2005)

That ticking is the cam tensioner on the driver's side of the engine. The plastic wears down to the metal cam and the chain makes the ticking/rattle noise. I changed mine earlier this year.












Watch the chain in action.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Oh yeah, punkstarkitch has a good point. That is very likely what the noise is. I haven't had to do mine but I honestly shoulda thought to bring it up before. HumbleMechanic has a really informative video on his youtube channel about the issue. Just google "HumbleMechanic cam chain tensioner". The vid is for the TSI but the same principles apply to the FSI.

Not to hi-jack the thread at all, but since the subject of the cam chain came up I actually started wondering about whether I am hearing the beginnings of improper tension on mine and I have a couple question if anyone happens to read this and wants to chime in. Hopefully OP doesn't mind me asking since it is on subject...

When the cam chain tensioner issues begin, I am aware that people describe the resulting tick as very similar to the "chug-a-chug-a" sort of pattern and sound that diesels have at idle, but is there also a noticeable tick while driving? I don't have a very pronounced diesel sound at idle but I do have a ticking sound while driving. It isn't particularly loud as it tends to get drowned out at anything above 2500 rpms, but when I can hear it at lower rpms it does increase/decrease with the rpms and completely stops when the car is out of gear. I kinda hope it is the cam chain tension issue so I can address it easily but it rather sounds like piston/valve ticking. I use liquimoly 5w-40 and the oil level is perfect. Oil changed less than 1k ago. So if it is the pistons/valves then either I have an oil pressure issue or there is something else entirely going on. So I hope it is the cam chain issue... anyone care to discuss what the cam chain does or does not sound like while driving? Any other tips? Can't find anything in my searches.


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## punkstarkitch (Nov 20, 2005)

You won't get a check engine light for a worn chain tensioner. The loud ticking is because the plastic chain guide rail is worn down to tensioner piston which is oil pressurized and the chain hitting the piston. You'll definitely get a engine light after the chain breaks and seizes your engine. The cam chain and tensioner that I replaced is on my 2.0 FSI BPY. You'll be able inspect the camshaft lobes and lifters when you take off the valve cover.

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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Thanks. Do you recall if there was an audible tick sort of like I described before you did yours or did you do yours entirely as a preventative measure? That is the way I am leaning, I am probably going to do the cam chain tensioner soon anyway as a preventative item even though I am not sure yet whether my cam chain tension is the issue. There are a couple reasons that I am not sure yet and I didn't want to totally hi-jack the OPs thread so I decided to open up a thread about it with more details than I mentioned above. Please read and share your thoughts if you have the time. Thanks.


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## punkstarkitch (Nov 20, 2005)

Thy, there was a significant unusual audible ticking/clicking noise other than the normal diesel type sound from the hydraulic lifters. The location of the loud tick will be behind the high pressure fuel pump in the cam housing. ECS sells a kit for this repair. You'll need basic tools, torx drives, camshaft lock tool and the poly drive socket. 
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Engine/Timing/Timing_Chain_Kit/ES2718947/

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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Thanks. I forgot to be more specific when I asked... did you notice that significant tick you mentioned while driving too or only at idle?

Edit: Wow, that kit from ECS is pretty cheap. I think I saw the same thing on Deuchauto and it was a good bit more and came with less stuff. I hope the components in the ECS kit are quality. I guess only time will tell...


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## punkstarkitch (Nov 20, 2005)

Thy, I didn't hear the tick as much when driving at a higher RPM. I think because there was less tension on the tensioner rail.

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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

punkstarkitch said:


> That ticking is the cam tensioner on the driver's side of the engine. The plastic wears down to the metal cam and the chain makes the ticking/rattle noise. I changed mine earlier this year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is scary 
Did I see a diy on this somewhere?


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## punkstarkitch (Nov 20, 2005)

Here's the DIY:

http://forums.mwerks.com/showthread.php?7013321-A-quick-D-I-Y-Cam-Chain-and-Tensioner-*BPY-engines


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