# Has your cam chain failed?



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

So in like the last 2 months, there has been like 4-5 threads about a failing cam chain. Wondering if I should be worried. I notice no strange sounds from my motor at all- aside from a start up rattle/squeak for a few seconds


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

My chain tensioner failed....Same result....

Does that count ?


----------



## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

GolfRS said:


> My chain tensioner failed....Same result....
> 
> Does that count ?


 Different engine...


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Elwood said:


> Different engine...


 
Huh ???

Why is this the TSI engine forum ??

WOW....:what:


----------



## masp7 (Nov 26, 2010)

'06 Passat at 43K was accelerating poorly and threw a P0342 code. 

Cam chain was stretched and was replaced under warranty along with the tensioner and associated parts.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

On a similar note, does anyone else get some chain slap/rattle noise on start up? It lasts about 20 secs after starting, until oil pressure is built up. There is no noise when its warm. Is the start up rattle a symptom of a failing chain?


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

big_c02 said:


> On a similar note, does anyone else get some chain slap/rattle noise on start up? It lasts about 20 secs after starting, until oil pressure is built up. There is no noise when its warm. Is the start up rattle a symptom of a failing chain?


 Failing tensioner.

The tensioner works with oil pressure....


----------



## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Mine was making noise but only once warmed up.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

230,000 miles on my original 2006..waiting for cooler weather to do this.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

The rattle on start up is intermittent and pretty loud, I pinpointed it to the cam chain housing area. Got the parts on order to do the swap. Hope to get the tools in Tutti's tool swap program asap.


----------



## mcdubbin33 (Feb 25, 2012)

im the lucky guy who can hear my chain and tensioner becoming obnoxiously loud at 65k miles on my bpy fsi. heres my question though extended warranty shall help me get my cam a version revised to cam b. but will they replace the chain and tensioner as well? I dont see how they could skip over that im afraid it will still be loud!!!???


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

I had my cam and hpfp done by the dealer and they didn't replace the tensioner and chain  

Good news for you though, as I look into it more the job seems quite easy. I just ordered all the OEM parts including gasket for 120. If you get aftermarket you can do it all for 80. We have a specialty tool program going in the other thread where you can get the tools needed for $100, then pass them on to the next person for $100. Low cost repair especially considering what happens if it breaks..


----------



## Worthlessbackup (Apr 10, 2013)

big_c02 said:


> I had my cam and hpfp done by the dealer and they didn't replace the tensioner and chain
> 
> Good news for you though, as I look into it more the job seems quite easy. I just ordered all the OEM parts including gasket for 120. If you get aftermarket you can do it all for 80. We have a specialty tool program going in the other thread where you can get the tools needed for $100, then pass them on to the next person for $100. Low cost repair especially considering what happens if it breaks..


 Where did you find the OEM parts for that cheap? 


Sent from my LT30at using Tapatalk 4


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Europa parts: 

http://www.europaparts.com/timing-chain-tensioner-06f109217a.html 

Tensioner is 89 
Chain is 27 
Gasket is 8 

Next lowest prices I could find is the tensioner for 65 and the chain for like 50, aftermarket


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

For the copper colored link: does this go towards the block


----------



## ordpetegti (May 20, 2004)

Original chain and tensioner. 2006 GTI. Not noisy at all. Always used Mobil 1 at 5K intervals.


----------



## DLV (Dec 10, 2012)

My 06t fsi has a belt.


----------



## Worthlessbackup (Apr 10, 2013)

We are not talking about the timing belt... The cam chain is different


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

On the opposite side of the head is a chain that drives the other cam- and seems to be somewhat prone to failure along with the tensioner that tightens it. At $130 for the parts and you can rent the tools as part of our specialty tool program, its cheap compared to the cost of a new engine if it breaks.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

So, to those that have replaced the chain...What did you find regarding that orange/copper colored link? Does this go against the block? 

Can't find info anywhere on it. Same with the torque values on the tensioner bolts and the housing bolts...


----------



## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

something to think about.. There is a tiny bleeder hole in the cam chain tensioner. I noticed after mine failed that this hole was plugged with what looked like carbon. I believe this bleeder hole bleeds out air that fills the tensioner after shut down.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Michael W Dane said:


> something to think about.. There is a tiny bleeder hole in the cam chain tensioner. I noticed after mine failed that this hole was plugged with what looked like carbon. I believe this bleeder hole bleeds out air that fills the tensioner after shut down.


That is not a bleeder hole.

It's the hole used to insert the holding pin to keep the
tensioner depressed during installation/removal.

That is where most make a mistake and ruin the whole tensioner.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

GolfRS said:


> That is where most make a mistake and ruin the whole tensioner.


Can you elaborate on this? As someone doing the install soon, and not wanting to make that mistake lol


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

big_c02 said:


> Can you elaborate on this? As someone doing the install soon, and not wanting to make that mistake lol


Well if i were you i would install a brand new tensioner along with a new chain.

Then you just install it without removing the retaining pin and
you remove it once the chain is on both cams to set the timing.

I have seen old tensioners fall apart simply cause they were not secured
during removal (meaning no pin was used) and the tech just squeezed the
tensioner to put the chain on it....

So once again get a new secured tensioner, bolt it on, install the chain
on both cams as per manual and THEN remove the pin to extend the
tensioner and lock the chain to the cams.


----------



## Worthlessbackup (Apr 10, 2013)

Good to know GolfRS. So the tensioner doesn't have an internal "stop"? It just keeps extending until it comes apart?


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Worthlessbackup said:


> Good to know GolfRS. So the tensioner doesn't have an internal "stop"? It just keeps extending until it comes apart?


Exactly.

There is a reason the tensioner comes "locked" in the factory box.


----------



## Worthlessbackup (Apr 10, 2013)

Roger that! I'm glad you said something, because my curious self would have probably pulled the pin out when I pulled it out of the box. :facepalm:


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

my chain snapped at 89k miles. oil changes every 5k and i never heard any unusual sounds up until the day it snapped and bent valves. after a month long debacle with VW corp (because they wanted to charge $7k for a new engine), i was told its not covered under any type of warranty and they wont do anything about it until people start calling up to complain about it. they basically need to have enough 'issues' before they can proceed with a recall or anything. i was also told that the chain is supposed to be a lifetime part as their are NO recommended intervals on maintenance in regards to it. so if you have EVER replaced your chain/ tensioner, call VW and tell them! so they have it documented.


----------



## Michael W Dane (Feb 23, 2013)

No I am referring to the tiny hole that does in fact bleed the oil feed to the tensioner.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm in the middle of this replacement now. The damn cam adjuster bolt wont come off and stripped out the screw slightly. Extremely frustrated. Im considering just putting it all back together and leaving it. No idea how I would get the bolt out if its stripped completely, really don't want to kill the exhaust cam.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

big_c02 said:


> I'm in the middle of this replacement now. The damn cam adjuster bolt wont come off and stripped out the screw slightly. Extremely frustrated. Im considering just putting it all back together and leaving it. No idea how I would get the bolt out if its stripped completely, really don't want to kill the exhaust cam.


 That bolt is probably the hardest part in the whole procedure,and people have
gone as far as to bend/break the cam itself trying to remove it....

Good luck taking it off. :banghead:


----------



## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I was telling someone that the bolt is really in there even though the spec is not very tight. I felt like I was going to break something getting it out. 

You really have to make sure the bit is seated and use something with some leverage.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Ugh!!!!!!!!!! I did not accomplish the repair as intended yesterday. After an hour of trying to convince the bolt to come out, I realized that any further attempts will only damage the head further. I don't have any desire to risk damaging the exhaust cam, or have another vehicle to use, so I threw in the towel.

I used a flat driver to smooth the part of the screw head that was sticking out, removed the couple broken metal pieces from the screw, and put it all back together with a new gasket. Fired it up, and everything sounded normal and drives normally. I checked the torque on the cam adjuster bolt to make sure it didnt loosen at all before putting the housing back on. 

So, I'm just going to leave it for now. The tenisioner that was on there seems to have some spring in it and is not worn too much- and the chain looks to be in great shape. If it ever gets to be a really loud knocking at idle when warmed up, I'll look at my options again. 

Cam adjuster bolt:1 Me:0


----------



## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Damn! You were so close! 

I wonder if one of the impacts that you hit with a hammer would have helped?

Like you said, at this point I wouldn't worry about it until you need to.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Ack I know. I really thought of leaving the car torn down and getting the electric impact wrench and going again...but the images of stripping the bolt out further and/or bending and breaking the cam popped into my head. Once the cold start rattle gets more frequent I will look at doing it again..

How does the chain look to you? About the same as when a new one is installed or does it look saggier? 

It seems that the tensioned area should only be on the top of the cams, and the lower part should be looser.


----------



## squitiere (Sep 18, 2006)

big_c02 said:


> Ugh!!!!!!!!!! I did not accomplish the repair as intended yesterday. After an hour of trying to convince the bolt to come out, I realized that any further attempts will only damage the head further. I don't have any desire to risk damaging the exhaust cam, or have another vehicle to use, so I threw in the towel.
> 
> ...
> 
> Cam adjuster bolt:1 Me:0


Maybe a dumb question, but were you using the specialty bit to remove the camshaft tensioner bolt? The bentley manual shows what looks to be a one-of-a-kind bit... doesn't look like even a triple square. The bit looks more like a 6-point torx bit, but with a different shape than an ordinary torx bit.


----------



## masp7 (Nov 26, 2010)

Were you using a polydrive bit?
That shouldn't strip out if you do.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

It's a polydrive 10 screw. Very easy to strip.


----------



## FinderRO (Sep 17, 2012)

big_c02 said:


> It's a polydrive 10 screw. Very easy to strip.


I'll give you a tip on how to remove stuck bolts like this.
First go get a new bolt (as the old one will be destroyed) and measure the thread diameter and the length of the thread.
Next get a metal drill bit that is about half the diameter of the bolt's thread and carefully drill a hole right in the middle of the bolt. Make sure you don't go in more than 80% of the total length. When close go slow and check depth often. Try to catch all metal shavings or clean the area properly after.
Drilling the bolt will relief the pressure on the thread and you will be surprised about how easy it will come out.

I had to do this for all the screws of the crankshaft pulley in order to remove them for the timing belt job.

Good luck.


----------



## bunnyspeed (Jul 8, 2003)

back from the dead! So is this an ongoing problem? My 08 GTI was just towed to the shop, but initial diagnosis points at cam chain failure. Anyone had any luck with VW?

Anyway at all related to cam follower issues?


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

DUB_MANGv2 said:


> my chain snapped at 89k miles. oil changes every 5k and i never heard any unusual sounds up until the day it snapped. after a month long debacle with VW corp (because they wanted to charge $7k for a new engine), i was told its not covered under any type of warranty and they wont do anything about it until people start calling up to complain about it. they basically need to have enough 'issues' before they can proceed with a recall or anything. i was also told that the chain is supposed to be a lifetime part as their are NO recommended intervals on maintenance in regards to it. so if you have EVER replaced your chain/ tensioner, call VW and tell them! so they have it documented.


CALL VWoA !


----------



## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

voted !


----------

