# A3 In North America: Views



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

So, let's look into the crystal ball of Autumn, 2003 or Spring, 2004. The new "A5" Audi A3 is announced for the North American market-it also looks like the most recent post (which I think is pretty spot on, actually). 
What would speculation be of the most desired AND most likely configurations of the A3. Think not like tuners/enthusiasts, but as the market would accept. Think pricing and options.
As for myself, I'm looking for the initial models to all be based on the 1.8T with an eventual VR6 option in another year or so. I also suspect that pricing will start around $24,900 and cruise up to around $31,000. All models in NA will most likely be Quattro.
Any other ideas/suggestions/opinions?


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## vertigo (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (Travis Grundke)*

I think it will be less expensive. The A4 starts at 24,900, so how can the A3 cost as much. 
Also, I think the MB c-class isn't selling all that well, because its price is
so high. Audi must realize this. Finally, the car has to compete with the Subaru
WRX, and can also command only so high a premium over the equivalent VW GTI.
So my guess is lower. I think the car will start at $22k and option up to $28k.
A decently equipped awd version will probably be $25-6k. Keep in mind that
this car definitely slots below the 180 hp TT, which can be had for $32k. 


[Modified by vertigo, 2:39 PM 9-6-2002]


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## cmflossin (Jun 22, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (vertigo)*

i don't think non-enthusiast americans want to pay that much for a hatchback. given all of us would love it, but it just doesn't appeal to the common person. in my opinion.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (cmflossin)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i don't think non-enthusiast americans want to pay that much for a hatchback. given all of us would love it, but it just doesn't appeal to the common person. in my opinion.[HR][/HR]​I don't think Audi is after the common person...


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## farfrummugen (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (vertigo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I think it will be less expensive. The A4 starts at 24,900, so how can the A3 cost as much. 
Also, I think the MB c-class isn't selling all that well, because its price is
so high. Audi must realize this. Finally, the car has to compete with the Subaru
WRX, and can also command only so high a premium over the equivalent VW GTI.
So my guess is lower. I think the car will start at $22k and option up to $28k.
A decently equipped awd version will probably be $25-6k. Keep in mind that
this car definitely slots below the 180 hp TT, which can be had for $32k. 

[Modified by vertigo, 2:39 PM 9-6-2002][HR][/HR]​here in southern california the c-class sells like hot cakes. i think the a3/s3 will sell very good around these parts. just judging from the kinds of cars i see around my neighborhood, i think audi is making a mistake for not bringing it over. i know i'll get one.


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## thetatau87 (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (Travis Grundke)*

I would do anything short of kill to get an equivalent of the S3 here in NA. Pricing of an A3/S3 Audi would have to be in line with the current A4/S4 pricing and also take into account the competition of the WRX anc C-class. An S3 would be closer to the C-class than WRX. In performance the WRX is great, but it's only available in a 4-door and doesn't come close to an Audi or Mercedes in quality. The WRX will remain bang for the buck winner.


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## cyjack (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (thetatau87)*

I feel the same way as thetatau87, but about the Steppenwolf concept vs. the S3 (though the S3 would be nice too ;-). Man, I just love that car. It would such a shame if it never saw production.
I believe that even if priced at a bit of a premium it would compare favorably to Subies and would sell well in cold weather regions.


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## Zero4875 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (cyjack)*

A3: 1.8T FWD, 180 HP: $22K (CD player, cloth, stick, 15" wheels)
AWD : $24K (same options)
FWD : $25K (Leather/Tip/Changer/16")
AWD : $27K (same options)
S3: 1.8T AWD, 225 HP: $32K (6 sp, pretty much same options as a TT)
If the S3 costed the same as a TT, which would you pick?


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## dbcoop (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (Zero4875)*

I agree about the pricing, the A3 will need to be $3-4k cheaper than a similiarly equipped A4 to be competitive in the US. The A4 is such a nice looking car, and hatches are not very popular, so pricing will definitely determine its success. This means base price of low 20's with a loaded 1.8T AWD car going for $26-27k. Am I the only that saw that the USDM S3 will have the R32's driveline? 240HP, 6 speed and AWD, but what will the price be???


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## thetatau87 (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (dbcoop)*

Where did you get that info on the US bound S3? A 24v VR6 would be cool, but I'd rather save the weight and have the 225hp 1.8t. A few quick mods and you've already made up the hp difference.
On a side note what is it with the US market. All the really hot cars are european versions only. I was in London for 10 days and I saw more cars that made me drool than in my life so far. S3's, RS4's, S8's a ton of 911tt's, a butt load of Ferrari's and a Skyline GTR. All in 10 days! I know that for limited production cars the devleopment for emissions and crash testing prohibits many of these cars from ever getting here, but if there was demand for them they would be here. Are Americans that dull? Are we really happy with our Malibu's and Taurus'? I'm not. There has yet to be a car sold in the US for a reasonable price (ie >$60k) that I would be happy with. When I could find several euro only cars that would tickle me pint right off the showroom floor. I guess I was born on the wrong side of the pond.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (dbcoop)*

In reference to the pricing issue. I disagree with the scenarios put forth so far about pricing: that the A3 would have to be less expensive than the A4. This reasoning is simply not true. 
The aforementioned statement assumes, improperly, that customers will automatically view the A3 as a "lesser" vehicle than is the A4. That is the marketing strategy that resulted in General Motors being fouled up the past 20 years (Cadillac is the top range, all other models are, in decending order, of lower caliber). 
This is old-school automotive logic. The new logic could be nothing further from that method. For example:
The Golf and Jetta have many overlapping price points. More importantly, Volkswagen of America has gone to GREAT lengths to ensure that people do not consider the Golf to be a "low end model" and the Jetta to be a "higher end model". In lieu of that distinction, Volkswagen has tried to position the Golf and Jetta to distinct market segments-and this strategy has worked quite well.
Similarly, Volkswagen's other brands, Seat and Skoda, are not positioned as "premium" or otherwise. Have you not noted Volkswagen's attempt to move away from the distinction that Audi is their "premium" brand and Volkswagen their "mass" brand? 
An A3 priced starting at US$24,000 and up will sell quite well. Volkswagen can even build more value in the vehicle by making Quattro standard on all models. So a consumer is then faced with a base A4 (which realistically speaking will still price out around US$27,000 with Quattro), or at the $27,000 point a theoretically very well equipped A3. At this point, it becomes a question of hatch or no hatch.
Furthermore, there are many high-end Jetta consumers (or potential) that would be very interested in an Audi product that offered lots of bang-for-the-buck in a relatively inexpensive A3 model.
As mentioned before, my 2000 GLS VR6 loaded up was MSRP, $24,900. Should, in 2004-2005 I look to purchase a new A3 for $27,000 I would consider that a very reasonable move indeed should the equipment be so provided.
The million dollar question, however is: Can VAG and VOA produce and distribute a US-bound A3 for those price points? Wolfsberg's finance guys are already screaming about the new Minibus-as VOA claims it must be priced well under $30,000 and VAG stating that they cannot profitably build them for that required price point. Time will tell...


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## dbcoop (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (Travis Grundke)*

The S3 info was in the Motor Trend with the 2003 model lineup.
Travis, I disagree and your example is not consistent. A base A4 vs. a loaded A3 is not apples-to-apples. A similiarly equipped A4 would still be $3-4k over what the A3 goes for in your example. I've looked and a nicely loaded A4 1.8T w/ AWD is $31k. And your GLS is a V6 car where the A3 would be a 1.8T so you're paying "more for less." The A3 is, and will be, a premium Golf - one with optional AWD, nicer looks, more luxery and "panache." If you think Americans will pay close to $30k for an A3 you're dead wrong. $25k yes, $30k no.


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## vertigo (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (dbcoop)*

Travis, the reality is that Audi markets their cars the same way.
The A8 is more car than the A6, which is more car than the A4, which is
more car than the A3 in every market where these cars are sold side by
side. Yes, of course, there are variations in each, and a stripped out model of
one type may actually cost less than a loaded or specialty (S or RS) version
of the one below. But there is no way that audi is going to market a smaller
hatchback at par or beyond the A4. Particularly not in the US. When they have
done so, they have had to purposefully take the car out of the regular line
up (hence the TT is not called A3 in this market, nor A5).
The A4 is competition for the 3 series; expect the A3 to go up against the
forthcoming 1- and 2-series. This segment is defined by cars that begin in the
very low twenties, and option into the mid twenties. Especially with cars like
the 350Z and RX8 coming in at high twenties, it's going to be hard selling a 
premium hatch for $30k that can't compete in size or price with those
*sports* cars.


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## ZABIDUHA (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (vertigo)*

I read motor trend a few months ago and they had a small side artical which said the A3 should start between 16-18K, thats going by what motor trend says, so what really happens we will just have to wait and see


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## wannagolf (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (Travis Grundke)*

I know that audiusa has documented, Although minor that they are currently doing evaluations for the A3/S3 in the us market...
( http://www.audiusa.com/contact_audi/0,4767,categoryId-103_,00.html )
But, should they OK it, I would think that we would get the current A4 chassis, until the new model has been sold in the EU for a couple of years?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif or http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ???


[Modified by wannagolf, 3:29 AM 9-24-2002]


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## Levish (Dec 1, 2000)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (wannagolf)*

I'd pay 25-27k for a A3 quattro depending on content


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## rustboy (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (ZABIDUHA)*

I also read Motor Trend and Automobile where it said an A3 would start around 16K. I contacted Audi America via E-mail, however, and they claim that there are no current plans to bring them to this side of the pond, so who is right? I look at an A3 as a glorified Golf (which I currently own) and the prospect of an A3 in America
excites me, but I won't pay 24-27K for one. For those bucks, I could get a Passat or A4.


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## XXX 1.8T (Aug 10, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (rustboy)*

If u guys get the A3 dont fall into the trap of buying the quattro cos it weighs too much and even if u chip it u will be a little faster than a stock 2wd. Get the quattro if ur willing to put a K04 setup on there trust me i know


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## AZVento (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (rustboy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I also read Motor Trend and Automobile where it said an A3 would start around 16K. I contacted Audi America via E-mail, however, and they claim that there are no current plans to bring them to this side of the pond, so who is right? I look at an A3 as a glorified Golf (which I currently own) and the prospect of an A3 in America
excites me, but I won't pay 24-27K for one. For those bucks, I could get a Passat or A4. [HR][/HR]​There is no way the A3 could be priced around $16K. That would put it into heavy contention with the Golf and GTI, and I don't think that VW/Audi would ever do that considering only a fool would pay more for a Golf than an A3. Perhaps the article stated 16K pounds, which would equate to roughly $24K, which would seem more likely. It would be nice to dream of an A3 at only $16K, but it is highly unlikely. As for the vehicle even making it to US shores no one has said anything. Some guy at a local Audi dealership told a buddy of mine it would be here for 2003, but I have yet to hear any official announcement. Besides that, salesmen rarely know what cars are going to be brough to what markets until the public knows. A prime example of this took place when the Beetle concept was first released and US salesmen were telling potential customers that the vehicle would be available shortly, even though at the time VW had no plans to turn the concept to reality.


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## rustboy (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (AZVento)*

It definitely wasn't pounds, it was Dollars. However, since a new Golf GLS is roughly 17K an A3 MAY be 18-20K, but I seriously doubt it would run 24-26K like most people here think (the S3, maybe, but not a base A3). As someone else said, hatchbacks are not popular in the US (even though the Golf has sold 25 million cars, about 3 million more than the original Beetle, since its inception back in the mid 70's):therefore nobody in this country will pay 25 grand for a hatchback. I plan on keeping my Golf for another 175K miles or so, anyway. If, in 2004 or 2005 an A3 does come here and is priced too high, I'll stick with Golfs or Jettas.


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## rustboy (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (rustboy)*

OOPS! I was wrong about total Golf production. It's about 21.5 million, not 25 million. Sorry! I haven't been sleeping much lately.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (rustboy)*

I still disagree with those who believe a hatchback cannot be priced higher than 23k (US$) or so. It is a bit naieve to be stuck on the whole "hatchback" issue as the reason why the vehicle will not sell. One must take into consideration the overall value being offered in the vehicle. For example, as I've stated, many Jetta VR6, Corrado fans, GTI, and Golf GLS buyers may be tempted to purchase the A3 in the low-to-mid 20s. 
If a 2000 Jetta GLS VR6 MSRPs around $24000, given the option of a decked out A3 Quattro for the same amount or slightly more, I'd take the A3 in a heartbeat. 
Last year, Audi sold approximately 80,000 vehicles in North America. That averages out to around 6,500 units per month, including the A4, S4, A6, Allroad, TT, and A8. I don't think Audi would be considering this model to be a volume seller-but it definitely rounds out the product offerings and would probably draw sales from Subaru buyers to boot.
There is a market for this vehicle, albeit a limited one, but there will most definitely be people who are willing to pay the price being asked and Audi will not have to '**** out' the vehicle. Hatchbacks are gaining in popularity in the United States-don't count them out!


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## vertigo (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (Travis Grundke)*

Americans have been willing to pay more, but rarely for a car as small
as the A3, and again, there is still the issue that they need to slot it
in low enough below the A4 to be able to sell any of them.


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## AZVento (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (vertigo)*

Okay...just to set the record straight on pricing....the following are prices direct from Audi UK as of July 2002 for the 1.6L 102 HP A3...anyone else wanting to find out more head to http://www.audi.co.uk
Prices are in UK Pounds
Base=11,876.60
VAT=2078.40
Total=13955.00
OTR=14640.00
If you figure a pounds to dollars conversion at just 1.5 then Base alone would be just under $18K. On top of that you would have to figure out what Audi would charge for the shipping and what not to bring it into the US, and you are easily over $20K. 
As for those who feel that $20K is too much for a 3-door hatch, I got one word...AUDI....I would be more that willing to pay that price for the A3. I think it outshines the Golf by a large margin and 9 times out of ten those people who actually look to buy Audi's don't look at VWs...It's just like someone shopping for a Lexus, they aren't going to bother looking at the Toyota's even though they are the same car with a much lower pricetag. One of the main draws of owning the Audi is the fact that you have those four rings on your grille. Anyways, I highly recommend you all check out that pricelist it's quite interesting to see...
By the way, base on the 1.8T A3 with 150 HP is 15068.09 which equals over $22K, the 1.8T Quattro just under $26K, and the 225HP S3 Quattro rings in at over $30K.


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## AZVento (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (AZVento)*

By the way if anyone is interested in that pricelist I saved myself a copy and can e mail it out to ya if you like...lemme know


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## Kaken (Apr 20, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (AZVento)*

You also have to realize that we get cars cheaper than any other country. Using uk.cars.yahoo.com auto pricing, a 3.0 A4 Quattro in the UK comes out to 24,190GBP. Running that through XE.com gets you a grand total of $37,550USD. Going back to autos.yahoo.com, the same car runs you $32,290 retail. We pay roughly 86% of the total price that the UK pays for the same car. This in point, the $18K after conversion base A3 would run around $15.5K for us. So yeah, a $16K base A3 could seem likely, though I doubt they'll put anything less than a 1.8T in the base model. I would expect a starting point around $22K, peaking around $27K for the AWD, CVT, kitchen sink edition.


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## DavidHM (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (Kaken)*

I can't see anything less than a 150 hp base model in the US either. I'm based in the UK and cars (in right hand drive) are generally more expensive here than elsewhere in Europe.
The uk.cars.yahoo.com price list includes VAT (sales tax) and destination charge. A base, 150 hp A3 in Germany is EUR 21100 (or $17800 US before taxes). In the UK, the 150 hp A3 is $23,400 plus taxes, with a standard sports package that the German spec doesn't have. The base model A3 in Europe has a 1.6 liter, 105 hp engine that isn't enough for our roads and would seem laughable in the States.
A base 163 hp A4 in Germany is $22,750 plus taxes, or $2,200 cheaper than in the USA. Therefore, depending on the spec, I would expect a base price of $20-$22,000 for a 150 hp A3, unless of course the car is sold with a *much* higher spec than the German version which is really quite basic. Any cheaper and the A4 would look expensive, any more and the A4 (which is based on a larger platform) than the A3 and TT would not be suffiicently different. Look at the $5,000 price difference between the C230K sports hatch and the C-Class sedan.
Comparisons to the TT are pointless - there are Seats and Skodas in the UK that are $15,000 cheaper than the base TT with the same engine and equipment levels; it adds only 4 wheel drive, the Audi name and that gorgeous body.


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## AZVento (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (DavidHM)*

Regardless of what UK cars are normally priced at in the US, if Audi decided to bring the A3 to market here I don't think it would go for anywhere near $16K. If you head to VW.com and build your own Golf without any features it comes to over $15K. That would put the Audi A3 in the same price bracket as the Golf. Considering Audi is supposed to be the higher end market of the VW I don't think they would place the price that close. Also looking at VW and Audi's past in the US market and how little of the market share they own, they wouldn't risk pulling so many potential buyers from the Golf by pricing the A3 so close to it. 
Just my opinion on the matter, and regardless on my opinion no one will ever know what the vehicle will be priced at until they do it, hopefully they will bring the A3 here and if it is priced as low as $16K I would be a VERY happy man.


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## thetatau87 (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (AZVento)*

quote:[HR][/HR]if Audi decided to bring the A3 to market here I don't think it would go for anywhere near $16K. If you head to VW.com and build your own Golf without any features it comes to over $15K. That would put the Audi A3 in the same price bracket as the Golf. [HR][/HR]​Currently the base A4 is 14.7% more than the base Passat ($24,950 vs. $21,750.) If you apply the same % to the base A3 vs. base Golf ($15,295) you get an A3 that would run $17,543. A 15% premium for Audi over VW is reasonable and I would pay it. 
Also, not many car buyers consider VW and Audi side by side. A buyer looking at Audi is more likely to also look at BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc..... VW/Audi enthusiasts like here on the vortex look at VAG as a whole, but the masses probably don't even realize how similar the VW and Audi car lines are.


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## DavidHM (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (AZVento)*

I take your point about the $18k base model, but the base Golf is a 2.0, 115 hp I believe? I don't think Audi would run with that, or an equivalent engine, and probably would start with the 1.8 turbo with 150 or possibly 170 hp. The US doesn't get that engine, only with 180 hp, which would be about $21,800 assuming a 15% premium. Allowing a bit less for the less powerful engine, we get back to the $21,000-ish figure.


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## dbcoop (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (DavidHM)*

The next generation Golf gets the 150HP 1.8T as standard. Comparing the US to Europe is pointless. The Europeans, IMO, are much more sophisticated when it comes to cars. Now, that may have a lot to do with the premiums they pay for owning an automobile but...Americans buy their premium brands loaded up with options. An Audi A3 here needs to offer much nicer content than the Golf. I think it would need a 180HP 1.8T, nice standard interior etc to be worth the premium in price. A 102HP I4 might fly in Europe, where gas is 4x as much, but not on an Audi in the US. I think a low 20's base price A3 (with lots of standard equipment) is realistic with a completely loaded version topping $26-27k. At that pricepoint there is nothing to compete with it, except perhaps the RSX








I just want to make they point that our opinion as enthusiasts is not representative of the average consumer. We can say we'd pay more for the A3 but what will determine its success is the opinion of the market. This is an interesting question though, can a premium hatchback survive in North America?


[Modified by dbcoop, 9:12 PM 10-9-2002]


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## Aphoric (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (thetatau87)*

I have never owned a VW, but I am seriously considering the R32. I like the S3, but there is just something about the R32. Now I gotta go try a TT and a GTI VR6 so I can imagine what it might be like. Audi does not listen to the enthusiasts like VW does, they are quite unfriendly to us, in fact.


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## rustboy (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (AZVento)*

Something I should have mentioned before, I'm 43 years old, and don't care how fast something goes from 0-60. A 2.0 is perfectly adequate for my Golf (with a stick, anyway, an automatic may be a different story), and I always buy used, so in a few years I may move up to Audi. A good A4 right now with under 40K miles 
can be had for about 18K, so maybe around 2008 or so, I'll get a used A3. Who knows?


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## Max Rebo (Apr 11, 1999)

*Re: A3 In North America: Views (thetatau87)*

Weight savings between a 1.8T and a VR6 are negligible. Maybe 100-150 lbs. Not that big of a deal, unless you're into road racing, where it will make a real difference.


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