# Mushy pedal with hawk hp plus pads... why?



## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

Has anyone else experienced this? After my two sessions on the track with hawk hp plus pads, the pedal starts to feel really mushy when I use the hp plus pads. But when i swap and put back my oem pads, the pedal feels nice and firm again.  

has anyone else experienced this with hp plus?


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

Stock caliper bushings? What tires? What I run into with hotter brakes is uneven wear... well, it's even, it's just at an angle. The stock rubber bushings are certainly flexing, and the caliper doesn't stay square. If you've got TyrolSport's brass bushings, this will alleviate your issue some... until you go to better brakes and stickier tires. If you really want to fix it... get a different car, or swap to monoblock 4 piston calipers.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

What type of car? brake fluid?


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## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

mk4 1.8t gti 

ate super racing blue. 

it happens when at a standstill as well, so i don't think tires have anything to do with it.


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

I asked the tire question to see how much sticky you've got that the brakes have to work with (i know you've said before, but I don't feel like digging through other threads). 

So, after bed-in, the pedal is as it should be, after a couple 30 min track sessions, the pedal looses its stiffness... yes?


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## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

Here's the timeline of how i used the pads. 

Installed them on my car the day before I thought i was gonna go to the track and bedded them as per Hawk's instructions. Initial bite upon pressing the brakes was really quick and nice, and very powerful. I ended up not going so I changed back to my OEM pads. i again put the pads on then went to the track. Pads were awesome till after my second 15 minute session. They didn't fade, the pedal just became really mushy. I thought it was the fluid, so I bled the brakes and put in the oem pads at the same time. 

I was gonna go autocrossing so I put in the hawk pads... After putting in the hawk pads and bleeding my brakes twice, they are still mushy. 

I just went to the track again two days ago, still mushy. They don't fade, they still perform really well . But u gotta really press down on the brakes for them to work, which ruins the feel. Also when i heel and toe, the pedal sinks so much that I use the ball of my ankle to blip the gas pedal lol. 

I just remembered that the metal clips on the inside pads that go into the brake cylinder are kinda loose. I guess from all the heat and abuse? maybe? Would that cause the soft feeling? 

If you wanna know, I'm on hankook ventus v12's. 225.45.17


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## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

And I do bed in the pads every time. But as soon as I go back to my oem pads, the pedal firms up to the perfect amount every time.


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

Sounds exactly like my usual problem. The caliper and pads torque to an angle, so they don't wear square. (this is why I go through a set of pads every weekend, even with the tyrol bushings) Not sure quite how bad yours are yet, but put one of the front pads face down on a flat surface, and measure surface to plate on both ends of the pad. I'm pretty sure you'll see a difference in measurement, if not a visibly obvious angle. If so, pads are trashed. Get the Tyrol bushings, it'll alleviate your issue for a while until you get on stickier tires and compress your braking zones even more. 

Or - go to 4 pistons. Come to think of it, .:R 2 pistons would make a big difference as well.


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## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

thanks dude, i'll definitely look into those bushings! What do u think about getting the bushings then breaking in the pad to be flat again? Good idea or not?


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

KG18t said:


> If so, pads are trashed.


 as above... You can try, but I sure as hell wouldn't risk my safety or my car on it.


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## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

true say, i will see how unevenly worn out they are and go from there.


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## IJM (Jul 30, 2001)

unplugged92 said:


> true say, i will see how unevenly worn out they are and go from there.


How do they look? I have this same problem on my car, and I use the TyrolSport bushings as well. There's only so much a single-piston caliper can do, especially with the torque generated by race pads and r-comps. My guess is that you'll see some pad taper either from end to end or inside to outside.  

I have plans to upgrade to the 4-piston fixed Brembo calipers off a Boxster, but I haven't done it yet. I suspect that'll help a lot.


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## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

yea i looked at the pads a few days ago... major taper lolll omg :banghead:
i should have just went for HPS.

i'd estimate maybe around 10 degrees of taper end to end. I think i'll just use these pads for two more track days then throw them out.


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

If you've got that much taper, I wouldn't risk it. It may be mushy now, but it will get to the point where the pedal will hit the floor... which will scare the sh1t out of you diving into a turn pulling the car down from 100+. Buy new pads.


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## IJM (Jul 30, 2001)

Another thing that helps with the bad taper is to do a quick left-foot tap of the brake pedal before the braking zone to get the pads to pre-set against the rotors. The pads will still taper, but it'll help with the long pedal travel per the previous poster's concern.


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## unplugged92 (Jul 13, 2012)

would it be possible to get them shaven true and even again? they still got plenty of meat on them... i would hate to throw these out.


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